#103: Dr. Elad Granot (John Carroll University, Boler College of Business)

Dr. Elad Granot [00:00:00]:
If you don't invest in your strong players. Right? You you will end up at the same place, and so you need to understand that maybe you take a fraction of what you're doing now, and say, you know what? I'm gonna I'm gonna, see what, jump start is up to. You don't have to be crazy like like me and set up your own fund. You don't have to go 1,000,000 of dollars in. See, you know, seek out opportunities for co investing like I was talking about for for, other organizations that are already working within that space and put some of your philanthropy dollars towards that. It is philanthropy in in a sense. It's just capitalist philanthropy.

Jeffrey Stern [00:00:35]:
Let's discover the Cleveland entrepreneurial ecosystem. We are telling the stories of its entrepreneurs and those supporting them. Welcome to the Lay of the Land podcast where we are exploring what people are building in Cleveland. I am your host, Jeffrey Stern. And today, I had the real pleasure of speaking with Doctor. Elad Grunot, the dean of John Carroll University's Boiler College of Business and co founder and managing partner of an early stage venture capital fund. Elad is passionate about the role of higher education in the world of startups, and he actively promotes making higher education more technology and more entrepreneurially focused throughout the academic community and to his students. Outside of his direct and his breadth of work as a practitioner, both in venture capital and in startups, Allad serves on a variety of boards where he is an enthusiastic booster of Ohio's economic, technology, and innovation ecosystems.

Jeffrey Stern [00:01:37]:
We cover a lot of ground in this conversation, spanning what Cleveland can learn from Startup Nation and Elad's time in Israel, the role of academia in fostering an entrepreneurial mindset, the tolerance for risk that we have here in Northeast Ohio, technology transfer out of academic institutions, and a whole lot more. So with that, please enjoy my conversation with doctor Ilad Brunot. Yeah. I have a sense of, you know, your your professional history and your bio, but I think, it would be a lot more interesting to hear it from you, you know, a little bit about your story, you know, where your interest in entrepreneurship and venture capital, your path to Cleveland, how all these things converge, and, you know, what what kinda brought you to to where you are today?

Dr. Elad Granot [00:02:27]:
Wow. Not not a complicated question to answer at all. So so I I'll I'll try to make sense of it. My my background, my parents are, Israeli. I grew up in the states. I grew up in New York, before going back to Israel to finish high school and serve in the Israeli military, pretty much like every other Israeli citizen. That's important for the context of the conversation because the Israeli military is is the bedrock of innovation in in what's become known as a startup nation. Yes.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:02:55]:
Startup nation hasn't always been that type of, juggernaut that it is now. That started in the late nineties, early 2000s, with a lot of technology that always existed, but on the government and military side, but then that sought to to, go into the private, market, into into business. And at that time, Startup Nation, the ecosystem didn't exist. And so when when a lot of innovation, got pent up, with with, no venture capital and no culture of entrepreneurship. Sound familiar? We're gonna get back to that.

Jeffrey Stern [00:03:30]:
It does.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:03:31]:
I know

Jeffrey Stern [00:03:31]:
we are.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:03:31]:
Yeah. And and and so when when all of that sort of, tried to find an outlet, the default was go to your service providers, your global service providers, your CBAs, your attorneys, that work for global companies like KPMG where I was, and see how they could help you. And so I was on the ground floor of, helping all these companies, try to try to raise funds, try to make, a BD on the international side. And I pretty much learned, from the ground up, what it's like to work with, founders, with technology, and have done it since. You know, we're in 2022. So it's a so so it's 30 beyond 30 years of me working alongside, founders, and then eventually, VCs, and then, eventually my own VC, my own ventures, and so on. We'll we'll get into that. Cleveland happened, when in 2006, I was, completing my doctorate at the University of Massachusetts with absolutely no intention of going into higher education, and and got a call from the dean of the business school at, Cleveland State saying, hey, why why don't you come check us out? We heard you're getting your doctorate.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:04:41]:
We heard you're not a traditional, academic, that you're really into applied business and all this stuff. We'd like for you we'd like for you to come and join us. I came. I was impressed by the man, by by the dean, and, the institution, and and we we moved to Cleveland in 2006. And, I've been here ever since in a variety of capacities and institutions. We can talk about that, but that's sort of the semi short answer to your question.

Jeffrey Stern [00:05:06]:
Yeah. Okay. A lot of lots of threads to pull on here.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:05:08]:
You you loaded it up that way.

Jeffrey Stern [00:05:09]:
I know. No. That it's awesome. I think it sets the stage really well because we'll I think we'll pull on all the threads. Perhaps, like, working our way towards Cleveland. And I know this is something we we would have got to later, but going to Israel for a sec, actually, because I think we can just draw the parallel off the bat. You know, here we are in Cleveland, both working, you know, respectively with entrepreneurs and and in the space and and trying to build companies and trying to build ecosystem and and, you know, create a community here. And and I think we're making progress.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:05:34]:
Yep.

Jeffrey Stern [00:05:35]:
You know, certainly in my time here, it's it's gotten better. We have a lot that we can do to to to to get even better. But, you know, I think there's enough people here thinking about this and and trying to to figure out how do we how do we get to a place that we want to be. Really curious, you know, from the perspective of of startup nation, from Tel Aviv, what did you learn from, like, coming from a a a place where it wasn't there to where it's now kind of the one of the flagship you you know, you've you've San Francisco and

Dr. Elad Granot [00:06:04]:
Mhmm. And you

Jeffrey Stern [00:06:04]:
have Tel Aviv in a lot of ways.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:06:06]:
Sure. A lot. I learned a lot. And and, I I I tell you, a few years ago, we had an effort here, which I was proud to be a part of to try and bring, blockchain technology to to Cleveland. It was it was, branded as, Blockland. Bernie Moreno, led the charge and sort of grouped around him, a lot of the leadership and and and other people that were involved, and and that sought to do something in Cleveland. That was the first time that that I saw some of the, parochial fiefdoms in in Cleveland break down. And I think that that's part of the part of the issue here that has gotten better.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:06:46]:
As you say, I think that's part of what has gotten better. We can talk about that. And that was the first time, that you sort of saw players from nonprofit, business, government, which is the key. And so Startup Nation's secret isn't that secret, and I'll break it down in a second. And so we we we did a lot of things. It didn't necessarily succeed, but that's not the point. The point is that was as far as I'm concerned in my time here, and I'm a transplant to Cleveland, in my time here, it's the first time, that I've seen, players come together to to move something forward, in unison. And what was interesting, there was one time that, we were all, literally all of us, around a huge table, the convention center, I think, or somewhere around, like, it was a bar association, you know, that kind of consumer.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:07:31]:
Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:07:31]:
Yeah.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:07:32]:
And so everybody was there, and everybody needed to say something. They felt like they had to take the microphone and say something fine. And after the 10th speaker or so, I remember getting really tired of it. By the time that Mike got to me, I said, hey, guys. I appreciate everybody being here, and I think we're doing something important. But, you know, I come from start up nation. I can tell you one thing we've never done at Startup Nation, and that's have a meeting like this. We've never sat around the table and asked ourselves, so who's gonna do what? And, you know, and who's gonna charge this? Where's the budget coming from? No.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:08:04]:
Everybody's just doing. There was never and still to this day has never been a meeting, you know, around some table somewhere in Tel Aviv where everybody's like, okay. You do this, you do that. No. Everybody's just busy doing. And I think we're now a lot closer to that than we were before. The parallels between Tel Aviv and Cleveland are very, I think, clear. For the first part for for the per you know, if you just look at, the most major, similarity, it is that it's not a natural place for a innovation and ecosystem to thrive.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:08:33]:
The coasts are. We get it. But, you know, if you look at Tel Aviv in a country that's surrounded by enemies, so no commerce with close by neighbors, is stuck in the middle of nowhere. The Middle East, we're in the Middle West, and and has no natural resources, milk and honey notwithstanding. Right? And so you you what do you do? Right? What what do you do? The difference between us and them is that they have to do in order to live. So that is, I think, the the by the way, I'm not wishing upon us a some sort of,

Jeffrey Stern [00:09:06]:
you

Dr. Elad Granot [00:09:06]:
know, death imperative. But when you when you have to innovate to sustain life, you become incredibly innovative, especially when there are no resources. And and so that is the the key. Now the players are what makes it possible. The military, everybody goes through the military. So I said I went to the military, everybody does. The military invests huge amounts in innovation for its own purposes. But and here's a big, you know, the big differentiator.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:09:36]:
Whatever Israeli citizens produce for the military apparatus, they get to own the IP by the time they're done with their service, minus the, you know, confidential parts. Imagine imagine that. Imagine a state. Right? Imagine Ohio investing in young entrepreneurs, so they could do whatever they're doing. And if they succeed, they owe it. They owe the state nothing. Sorry. If they fail, they owe the state nothing.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:10:00]:
If they succeed, they pay back whatever the investment was, and that's it. And then the state thrives because these these, founders are staying here paying taxes, hiring people, all that stuff. We're we're a long way to go from that.

Jeffrey Stern [00:10:13]:
But at one point, is it it was it purely from, you know, a motivation of survival? Like, is there is it requisite that, you know, that is the case? Like, could could we through just sheer will and, you know, desire and innovation to foster that kind

Dr. Elad Granot [00:10:27]:
of We don't have to be on on, death's door, to to realize that innovation is is the future for us. And I think we've already, made that record we've all recognized it if you look at the healthcare industry here. And and if you look at technology around us with with manufacturing really transitioning into a techno a technology business, we we've we've understood that. We're not under threat of death, but we understand that financially, economically, competitively, as a state among all the states in the union, we have to compete. We don't have, you know, the sexiness, so to speak, of of, you know, the the West Coast. We don't have the the capital of the East Coast. Yep. But, we still have to compete.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:11:14]:
And so what do we have? We have our work ethic. We have our health care industry. We have our manufacturing. We have our history. We have what I think is incredibly important, a mixture of immigration, which is which is really unique. So So unique that most of us don't realize it because we take it for granted, but it's incredibly powerful. Not every state has that, and we have, look to the north, we have an insane amount of water. And so when you put all that together, I mean, other states would kill for that.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:11:41]:
And we're, you know, we put we put stuff on the lakefront, you know, that's for another conversation maybe. But we have all these resources.

Jeffrey Stern [00:11:49]:
Okay. Very interesting. So I wanna maybe tie in academia. Right? And and the the role that that plays because I I think, you know, if you look to maybe some of our peers, you know, Pittsburgh, you know, even, you know, San Francisco and New York, I think entrepreneurs tend to be drawn to other entrepreneurs, just, you know, geographically speaking. And I think if you just like survey probably in in a startup nation as well out in Israel, like the the university is a non negotiable part of of the ecosystem.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:12:18]:
Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:12:18]:
So just kind of high level your perspective on the role of academia as it relates to entrepreneurship, You know, maybe tying in your personal experience, what what drew you to John Carroll and and the the nature of, you know, what what is what is that? What are you responsible for there?

Dr. Elad Granot [00:12:33]:
Higher education in in the Israeli ecosystem is an integral part, just as important as the military is. The institutions of higher education are geared towards producing innovation. In fact, for a small, small country, you know, quarter the size of, Ohio, it has 4 of its universities ranked the top, in the top 50 in the world. And so that that shows that there's significant huge investment in in higher education. And it also shows that higher education is geared towards producing innovation.

Jeffrey Stern [00:13:01]:
Yep.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:13:02]:
And and so, that's critical. We we have to do that. You know, we have some amazing universities here. And so obviously, Intel came here because of, that university, South of here. I forget their name. And and, you know, there are other phenomenal, research institutions around here. But there are also schools like like like John Carroll that are that are not, what what's known in our industry as r one institutions. Right? But if you look if you look at the marketplace, and if you look at Cleveland and Northeast Ohio, and you look at all the folks that we're talking about that are entrepreneurs, innovators, many many many of them are John Carroll grads.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:13:37]:
Yep. This is not a coincidence. And so how how does this happen? How do you have, this pipeline of innovation entrepreneurship from a university that doesn't produce, at least not as a goal, innovation entrepreneurship? One of the things that that drew me to John Carroll was this gap and me telling them, look, every university that I know of in in thriving ecosystems, the top 10 global ecosystems, in in all of them, universities play a significant role. By the way, the US slipped to number 11. We have to do something about that. And so, you know, we have to we have to get into the innovation, business. And so as a business school dean, the way for me to do it is I have an entrepreneurship program. I have one of the best programs in the nation.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:14:17]:
Our entrepreneurship program at John Carroll is really well known, but I identified a gap. Right? And the gap is it's not producing too many entrepreneurs. Mhmm. And and in a microcosm of what's happening in in the midwest and in northeast Ohio in general, it's because there's no capital. Right? So so you have you have, kids, freshmen, sophomores, and and and others come up with ideas. They come to our center for entrepreneurship. They get they get a little bit of, mentorship and guidance and and and, you know, strategic planning and all the other stuff. But at the end of the day, they don't have capital to to move forward.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:14:49]:
And as we know, the number one reason startups fail is they run out of cash.

Jeffrey Stern [00:14:53]:
Right. They run out of money.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:14:54]:
It's that simple. And so what we're doing now is we are shamelessly copying the Israeli model. And that is we're we're, we're putting in a venture capital fund into the business school that will be run by students. So so it solves 2 issues. It solves the capital issue for for, entrepreneurs, but it also solves the talent issue in venture capital around here. Right? There's not enough everybody keeps saying that. Yeah. There's not enough venture capital, and there's not enough venture capitalists here.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:15:24]:
And so I'm trying to address that both by having my own venture capital fund run out of Boulder, investing in entrepreneurs, student entrepreneurs in the university, and having my own ecosystem within the university, but also producing it. That's I think our job producing it into the ecosystem.

Jeffrey Stern [00:15:43]:
One of the the interesting things for me just reflect on my own experience, what brought me to Cleveland. A lot of the folks we've had on the show tend to be a little bit more tenured, you know, experience older entrepreneurs. I think there's this real challenge for entrepreneurship coming out of college. You have, you know, the the large firms, investment banking consulting who, you know, will spend 1,000,000 of dollars recruiting and and provide a really good stable professional path for for anyone coming out of college. That's in line with the kind of ambitious, you know, mindset that that a lot of these these kids will have. How do you foster the entrepreneurial mindset? Because it's also it's not a risk, you know, averse path. Oh, no. And it seeks

Dr. Elad Granot [00:16:27]:
risk by its very nature. And you absolutely. It's hard,

Jeffrey Stern [00:16:29]:
you know, and most of them are going to fail. And sure, it you know, the stability, the perhaps like the the perceived risk of, you know, people, it's it's a grind.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:16:39]:
Yeah. I think you hit on something by I'm talking about failure. I'll get that in a second. But I think there's a misconception about, when people hear the word entrepreneurship, they immediately, go to starting your own business. And entrepreneurship isn't is not just that. Entrepreneurship is is a mindset, and you can be entrepreneurial within someone else's business. I mean, we're seeing huge companies outsource their entrepreneurial, spirit because they they've come under this formula that you're describing of security, risk free, avoiding mistakes, avoiding failures. Right? And and so they've come to the point where they can't innovate.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:17:15]:
All of a sudden now they're hiring, innovative and entrepreneurship think tanks to to sort of, jump start their entrepreneurship. So I think there's a lot to be said for entrepreneurship. Having, working within an organization, a healthcare organization, a manufacturing organization, a bank, gotta be careful how creative you wanna be, but you know what? On the other hand, if you think about Fintech. Right?

Jeffrey Stern [00:17:37]:
Yeah.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:17:38]:
A lot of Fintech is is eventually directed at large financial institutions that haven't innovated themselves.

Jeffrey Stern [00:17:46]:
Yep.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:17:46]:
Right? And so entrepreneurship by by definition isn't just starting your own business. It's about being entrepreneurial within a setting. It could be your own business, but it could be someone else's. It could be a, you know, 5,000 person company and you you you you are innovating within that, within that system. So so so that's important for me to say. If you realize that, then as a business school and I and, you know, I I don't know how common it is for business school deans to to be from the mold that I come from. What I mean by that is I'm I'm a practitioner. I'm a business guy

Jeffrey Stern [00:18:20]:
Right.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:18:21]:
Who's a business school dean. It's still amazing to me that people are, surprised by that.

Jeffrey Stern [00:18:27]:
Well, it's one of the, like, common critiques I think often of academia.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:18:30]:
Well, we've got right. And so imagine imagine I always equate it to, to med school. Right? Imagine if a med school dean was a theoretical surgeon. Right? Never really just read books about it and watch YouTube videos or whatever, and is really the world's biggest expert on surgery, just never really conducted surgery. That's how ridiculous that is to me in a business school. Right? And so I shouldn't be the exception. I hope there's more and more business deans, business faculty, who are practicing, practitioners, who are also passionate about educating, which is what got me into higher ed. And that that goes to entrepreneurship.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:19:08]:
Right? If if you if you come from entrepreneurship, and that's something that I'm very proud of building at Bowler, and that is I'm bringing in entrepreneurs in residence. People who who have nothing to do with academia into the academic setting because, students need to see the end product. You're right to say that, you know, if you're an accounting student, you sort of expect the big four to come. You'll interview by your junior year, you'll have a job. Everything's great. Right? That's great, but it's not for everyone, and we're not really pushing the envelope. We're not innovating. We're not creating, we're not creating opportunities for others.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:19:44]:
If we accept risk and if we embrace, failure, and I think that's a very big if. Right? It's really difficult. The American mindset isn't forgiving of mistakes, and and, we need to get over that.

Jeffrey Stern [00:19:58]:
Yeah. And I

Dr. Elad Granot [00:19:59]:
think that's one going back to your question before about the Israeli mentality. Israelis have no problem, admitting to mistakes. They make them all the time, but then they analyze the crap out of it. Right? What we do wrong? How can we make sure not to do it again? Let's share it with everyone else so at least we don't make that mistake again. And in fact, just as an aside, in our own, I have a venture capital fund that I funded and manage. When we look at prospective founders, we like the ones that have, multiple failures in their resume. That tells a lot. And so if we can get over that hump of, failing is embarrassing, we could get a lot more students interested in in entrepreneurship as as a mindset.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:20:42]:
Not necessarily starting their own business, but sure, no problem if they want to. And that's why I'm offering it as a minor because I'm hoping that even non business students, will come and and and get that as a minor. I think I think it's critically important. It opens up the mind, gives you ideas. So many so many, people walk around with great ideas and then they wake up one day, somebody else did it. And they go, shit.

Jeffrey Stern [00:21:04]:
Did

Dr. Elad Granot [00:21:04]:
I say shit on a podcast? Whatever.

Jeffrey Stern [00:21:07]:
It's all good here.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:21:07]:
Right? And so so so we teach them, you know, entrepreneurship is much like a leadership. You can't really teach someone who wasn't born with an with an aptitude to it to be really good at it, but you can teach the principles and point to people who do it very well, so people can draw conclusions for themselves and and see what they can apply from what they've learned.

Jeffrey Stern [00:21:29]:
Yeah. I have in in many ways, that's I think what I've been trying to do with this podcast is right. What what are the things that other people have already figured out that that they have mastered that you can, you know, draw get inspiration from from their own experiences. Yeah. I think the the learning, you know, in practice and not in theory thing also resonates quite a lot. And I'm curious how you how you think about how to overcome this this, you know, pervasive mentality that I I think a lot of us have that, you know, fear will be, you know, failure rather will be, you know, castigated. In my own experience, I think I shared that and then having gone through a failure, it really was kind of celebrated, which was like really a surprising. Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:22:08]:
It was not what I expected walking away from a company that that did not end up in a in a good outcome.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:22:13]:
Yeah. I I have a pet peeve about, business textbooks. Forget the fact that they're books and who the hell read, you know, I mean, by the by the time they're printed, they're already outdated. Forget it. But the concept behind business textbooks always puzzles me, and that is, there's they always bring up, and and mention and and elaborate on best case scenarios. Right? That's great. What can you learn from best case scenarios? Nothing. Give me a book about mistakes.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:22:40]:
Right? Give me a book about colossal failures. Right? We thought we were doing well. You know, give give me a book about FTX. Right? What the hell happened? Right? How did this go wrong? How may how, you know, how come, so many smart people didn't sync didn't sync, did not see it coming? If they did, why'd they choose to ignore it? That's how you learn. Right? And so we we we need to bring we need to bring failure into the foreground as an as a as a learning mechanism, as a tool for understanding what not to do again. Again, best case scenarios are are wonderful. They're really amazing. You know, everything went swimmingly, and we got the money, and everything worked.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:23:18]:
Great. What did I learn from that? Nothing. Right? And so, I I think there's a shift that we need to make in our business culture. I think it's happening. And again, I I take you back to something I mentioned before. There's an incredibly healthy dose of immigrants among among, founders

Jeffrey Stern [00:23:35]:
Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:23:35]:
In the United States.

Jeffrey Stern [00:23:36]:
Absolutely.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:23:36]:
And immigrants have no problem with admitting, mistakes because all the shit they've gone through, to to be here, you know, making a mistake is nothing. And and and so, the you know, I was just talking to somebody about how difficult it is, and I'm an immigrant myself. When you come to a different ecosystem and you're an immigrant, you have no network. Until you experience not having a network, you don't understand how significant that is. Right? And so you cannot be this you can't let hubris lead you, and and be this perfect person. You need to be vulnerable, smart, and, accept guidance. And I I think I think that sort of feeds into I'm not saying seek failure. I'm not saying deliberately try to fail.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:24:19]:
But when you do fail, try to extract the benefits of of of that failure. Because failure to me, and I'm sorry for the cliche, but it's cliche for a reason, failure to me means you tried. And I'll take that any day.

Jeffrey Stern [00:24:33]:
Yeah. How in practice at John Carroll, for example, do you, you know, facilitate that and and, you know, getting students to to try?

Dr. Elad Granot [00:24:43]:
Yeah. One of the best ways to do that and and, you know, this generation is interesting, by the way, being being in a academic institution is really cool because you're with young smart people all the time. The problem is I'm the only one getting old. Right? They're all 18 to 22, all the time. So if you can get back past that, you need to realize that there's there's an immense sense of insecurity at that age, and this particular generation has is is very different from mine. Not better, worse, just different. One of the things that I think is is, lacking or or needs improvement, and certainly the pandemic didn't help, is, social interactions and social skills. Yeah.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:25:23]:
And so, you know, we were just talking about how fun it is to to to do this face to face, but many, many fear that. And then the pandemic sort of gave them reason not to do it, and And I don't wanna get on a pest pedestal about working from home because I think it's bullshit. But I think there's an issue here. And so we the first thing we did is, we brought them back to campus. We are back. We are an institutional higher education. We do things face to face. That's not to say we don't have all the zooming and the, you know, all the online stuff and all the other stuff.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:25:55]:
Great. But the bottom line is human interaction. Creativity flourishes when there's human interaction, and comfort with other people allows you to be more vulnerable in terms of failures. And so there's this cycle that you need to be very deliberate with that, institutions of higher education have the privilege of, instilling. I can literally say, you know, you're gonna show up. Right? And and so, you need to you need to be honest about the reasons for that, and and I think I I believe we are. We are we are our our students interests are our interests. What we're trying to do is prepare them for their life and their, career by the time they leave.

Jeffrey Stern [00:26:35]:
Yeah. No. I I think that that that makes a whole lot of sense. And not not to also borrow cliche, but business is is just people. Yeah. Yeah. It's like the most valuable thing a company has. All of the interactions is just how you how you communicate with Yeah.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:26:49]:
There there's another thing that, you know, another cliche that isn't true, and that is, business is just business. It's not personal. I I think that could not be further from the truth. Everything is personal.

Jeffrey Stern [00:26:58]:
Yeah.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:26:58]:
You know, a lot of people talk about the no a hole a hole rule, which I I subscribe to wholeheartedly. And and so, you you know, you you do better, with people that you get along with, and you get along with people if you actually see them. And so there there's there's a if there's one thing that I would I would, commend Cleveland for being, and and we talked about it before we started taping, taping. I just dated myself. But it the the the one amazing thing about Cleveland, and there are many, is that we get together here. Yeah. And so, you you know, you and I hang out in the same circles even though demographically we're not. We sort of move towards the same goal.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:27:39]:
We have this, the the same attitude towards things. We we don't have a stuffy attitude here in in the Midwest. We we work hard. We we don't take ourselves too seriously, but we understand our our value. It's a great place. It's a great launch pad, I believe to be a very competitive region.

Jeffrey Stern [00:27:57]:
So on that that theme of of collaboration, one one of the really cool things I think is, you know, serving a bunch of, you know, different entrepreneurs here is that handful of them have come from CASE, handful of them have come from Cleveland State, handful of them come from John Carroll. Where where's the the opportunity for for collaboration really just focus, you know, under this academic umbrella?

Dr. Elad Granot [00:28:19]:
Yeah. It's I I'm gonna answer honestly.

Jeffrey Stern [00:28:22]:
Yeah.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:28:22]:
And it's not necessarily gonna be, the the most politically, correct, answer. I'll give you a different sector first and then and then we can talk about it. Asking for collaboration among academic institutions is noble, but if you look if you look at the bigger players in this market, right, if you look at at Cleveland Clinic, and Metro, show me how they're collaborating, and then I'll tell you how I'm collaborating with Cleveland State and and, with, Case Western. This is a little, tongue in cheek.

Jeffrey Stern [00:28:52]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:28:53]:
But, this is a competitive we're competitors. And so at the end of the day, we are competing for students at our institutions, and and there's a limit to, you know, what the kids called, how much you can be frenemies with with with, you know, other players in the marketplace. Having said that, when you look at budgets, when you look at resources, when you look at research directions, collaboration is critical. And I think and I think around regional economic development, that's where we can find

Jeffrey Stern [00:29:24]:
Right.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:29:25]:
More of a consensus than other things. Right?

Jeffrey Stern [00:29:27]:
Right.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:29:27]:
And and so do we see each other every once in a while? Sure we do. You know, I work with the folks at Case. I have I've spent a long time in clean estate, know know a lot of people there, but I'm a very competitive guy. And so if I can do something without those 2, I will. That's just the honest truth. I believe my colleagues at, you know, the 3 health systems here have the same, which I consider to be healthy attitude, but I understand the, how shall I say, the the merits of the fantasy world where everybody collaborates.

Jeffrey Stern [00:30:02]:
Sure. Well, I think to to, you know, paint the picture why I think it in my matter is one of the things I, you know, it from the perspective of a healthy Cleveland entrepreneurship ecosystem, the one of the critical ingredients is retention. And I feel, you know, if you if you pull in the the parallel of what, you know, Israel, like everyone who's graduating going through the military, they're gonna stay there. There's there's not, I think, so much a fear of of a retention problem in Israel. Whereas here, you know, a lot of folks are looking maybe for a reason to stay, but it's not it's not inherently there in the same way.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:30:35]:
Yeah. I I could see that point, although, you know, the pandemic did have some, positive outcomes and one of them was people coming back. Right? And and and, seeing the value of, of being here, and we we see that a lot. I think you're absolutely right about retention. And again, I'm a capitalist. I believe that motivations are primarily driven by, economics. And so what's missing here, I alluded to it before, is financial opportunity. Right? If I'm if I'm a founder and I need to raise, it's not gonna you know, all due respect to Jumpstart and all the other players who are phenomenal, I'm working with them and I and I think they're great.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:31:14]:
The odds are I'm I'm gonna have to go somewhere else. So the retention issue is, people love this place. Great quality of life, great weather, 8 months out of the year.

Jeffrey Stern [00:31:24]:
Yep. Good good portion of it.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:31:26]:
You know? But but we love it here. We, you know, all of us love it here, and and and so the issue is when we have the next step, and actually, what we're saying about Israel is partially too because in Israel as well, once you hit a certain point on certain level, they do leave. They have to leave, And they have a lot more, capital than we do, but they don't have the geography, that we do. Yep. And so your point is well taken, but also, there are similarities in that sense. Having said all that, I think if we had a thriving, venture capital ecosystem here, we would see a lot less people, migrate out of here. In fact, we could draw some some here because we have areas that we're strong in on a national level. Right? Yeah.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:32:10]:
If we have, I I worked very closely with, Ventures. I think you spoke to David recently and Yes.

Jeffrey Stern [00:32:16]:
Yes.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:32:16]:
We need more of that. We we, a, we need more UHVs, and b, we need more Davids. Right? We need more people who are pushing for developing a healthy robust venture capital community.

Jeffrey Stern [00:32:27]:
Yeah. No, I think that that does make a lot of sense. One one detour if you're in Go for it. For a sec. Because this one this one, I really don't have a good sense of of how it works. And again, just through kind of surveying a lot of folks trying to build companies. It seems to me that there is a lot of underrated undervalued opportunity in technology transfer from academic institutions to spin out to create that's even like test the market with some of those ideas. It's come through from a lot of the folks who I think have come from academia and have tried to build something out of maybe their their area of focus for research.

Jeffrey Stern [00:33:03]:
How do you unlock the

Dr. Elad Granot [00:33:06]:
There's there's 2 problems.

Jeffrey Stern [00:33:07]:
Tech transfer.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:33:08]:
Yeah. You're right. It doesn't just seem that way. It is that way. And so, there's 2 problems.

Jeffrey Stern [00:33:14]:
Yeah.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:33:14]:
One is higher ed is notorious in terms of holding on to IP. Yeah. And so faculty are discouraged from developing things while under the auspice of of the institution because they would owe it to the institution and some sort of mob tactic that doesn't make any sense to me. And and so there's a disincentive to innovate if you're a part of an academic community because you you you are you are expected, contractually obligated to give a piece of it to the institution simply because you're there. That is so old school.

Jeffrey Stern [00:33:50]:
Yeah.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:33:51]:
And and so not forward looking that that's that's part of the reason. The second is, again, sorry to harp on this, but that's just the issue. There's not enough funding going into that. And so, you know, here's here's the cool thing about Startup Nation. The military and the academic institutions provide resources, training, investments. And at the end of the day, if you develop something for them, you get to keep the IP. And so minus the, you know, top secret stuff, you know Sure. Yeah.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:34:22]:
Laser secret, you know, whatever. And and so how how amazing is that? Right? For for an institution to put all this energy and all this, investment into you and then say, it's yours. Go ahead. That is something that we haven't learned how to do here. Higher education in general is is is a aircraft carrier. It takes a long time to to move things and turn things.

Jeffrey Stern [00:34:44]:
Yep.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:34:45]:
Yep. Actually, it's slower. And and so expecting it to be that way, you would need an incredibly forward looking board of trustees and leadership to to let go. And and I think you would see such a flurry of activity that would actually be paying off on the other side a lot more than what you're seeing now. And that is and and look, CASE CASE has an amazing tech transfer, pipeline. Cleveland State does as well. But we at, John Carroll, we don't have a tech transfer office. And so, you know, I'm trying to I'm trying to build now an internal venture capital fund, and and the questions that I'm getting, which which are valid, are, well, how are we gonna handle the the IP, and where are we getting the money from, and who's gonna do this, and who's gonna do that? As you know, entrepreneurs don't bother with this type of questioning, and I keep telling everyone I'm much more about speed than perfection.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:35:38]:
Higher ed isn't. And so there's a long way to go, and until somebody breaks the mold, it's it's gonna it's gonna, lavish. And and and so I I'm a lowly business school dean. I'm not a president. You know, I don't I don't control entire institutions. But if I did, that would be what I would push for. It's like, guys, you know what? Let's just let's just invest in our people and let them do whatever they want, and and and let's not tell them that we wanna keep a piece of it ahead of time, just because, you know, we gave them an office. They would be more loyal.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:36:10]:
They would be more successful. They would take more risks. And if everything goes great, we'll we'll we'll get our piece at the the other end. You know, and that's the way that's the way we need to go. And on the coast, they do do that. Right? Stanford, that's their model. Right. Right? And so, Stanford, Stanford you know, people say, oh, well, it's Stanford.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:36:28]:
No. No. No. It's not because they're Stanford. It's because of how they do things. That's why they

Jeffrey Stern [00:36:32]:
They they set the right incentives.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:36:33]:
Yep.

Jeffrey Stern [00:36:34]:
Yeah. That yeah. It's it's just been an idea kind of floating in my head. It it feels like there's a lot of potential.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:36:40]:
You're right. Yeah. A 100%.

Jeffrey Stern [00:36:42]:
Interesting. Cool. So I'd love to maybe pull it back to just more, you know, your your personal, you know, experience and and path and, you know, maybe tell us a little bit about I Angels and, you know, the the impetus for that and and some of the the work that you've done there.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:36:55]:
Yeah. So so iAngels is an amazing, venture capital, fund out of Tel Aviv. It was, founded by, 2 super bright founders, and they happen to be women, that then that that took on the identity of the fund. So most of the fund is is, run and managed by by, women. There are some, some guys like me who are allowed to to be involved. I say that semi jokingly. I think they're incredibly bright, all of them. And it's a huge pleasure to be working with them.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:37:32]:
I know one of the founders, on a on a personal level for a long time. The other thing that's similar between between Tel Aviv and and, and Cleveland is the interpersonal connections and the one degree of separation as opposed to 6. Right? Yep. And so you and I met literally because I reached out to you and we met. That was it. I didn't need anybody introducing us. That wasn't through you know, I didn't have to go to through your secretary or what whatever. Yeah.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:37:56]:
It was pretty straightforward. Right? And so that is is, something that you can't artificially build, and we have that here, and so does Tel Aviv. And so when Shelly, one of the founders of, iAngels, reached out to me to for advice, input. It was based on a personal relationship that our families have had for for a long time. Yeah. And then and then I found, an amazing fund that, works, in co investing, which I love that model. Because, again, I'm I'm all for breaking barriers. And I think one of the things that when you look at accredited investors and you put up barriers, what you're getting is a filtered sample, rather than a qualified sample.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:38:40]:
And so you're blocking I'm all for access. And so, co investing by its very nature allows access, right? Because you can have fractional investments and all that type of stuff. And so the combination of knowing the founders, that are so brilliant, loving the model of, co investing, and then looking at their portfolios, which, you know, one of the most amazing things, about Israeli technology is it's technology that we need. What I mean by that is there's a reason TikTok didn't come out of Tel Aviv. There's no, security application for TikTok. Right? But, other stuff that's come out, whether it's the PillCam, you know, 30 years ago, which still people are mentioning is an amazing innovation, anything has to do with cybersecurity, anything has to do with drone technology, anything, you know, the number one autonomous driving epicenter in in in the world is in Tel Aviv. Tel Aviv doesn't make one car, not even a toy car.

Jeffrey Stern [00:39:36]:
Right.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:39:37]:
And yet all of the car companies have their r and d centers there. Intel has a huge facility there. And so when you see the innovation that comes out, it is incredibly sophisticated, but it's all technology that we need. And so so I'm not saying there's less risk in investing in that type of technology, but when you look at it, it's all, yeah, that makes sense. We need that.

Jeffrey Stern [00:39:58]:
Right.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:39:59]:
And and so when you put all that together, and having the privilege of advising such an amazing, fund, seeing it grow, seeing it expand, it's been a phenomenal, experience, and it inspired my my partners and I, to set up our own fund, and invest alongside, alongside them. Not not an easy feat in in the in the, Midwest. All of my partners are, Northeast Ohio, Cleveland people. Yeah. All of them are, quite wealthy. If they're listening to this, they know they know I'm saying the truth. And and all of them have never taken risks in their investments because that's not what you do in the Midwest. Yeah.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:40:36]:
All of a sudden, this Israeli guy comes over and says, hey, let's invest in really high risk technology stuff that's just out of this world. And, it took a while for us to put the fun together, but the main, thrust was when we went to Tel Aviv and they showed us, their portfolio companies. And it was just one after the other. Just phenomenal stuff And we put the fund together.

Jeffrey Stern [00:41:00]:
That's very interesting. Because I I was going to ask how you change the perception of risk that people have from, you know, being having the capital to invest, but being risk averse to having that same capital, but just, you know, it's a shift in in perspective and and maybe it just requires seeing what the the good outcomes can can be.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:41:20]:
Yeah. And that so it's it's not it's it's

Jeffrey Stern [00:41:23]:
because because we have a lot of capital in Cleveland.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:41:25]:
A 100%. We have insane amounts Right. Of capital, but we have zero tolerance for risk. Yes. And so my pitch was quite interesting. I've never raised money that way. My pitch was, look, you folks are all incredibly rich, and you give away to charity, and you do all these amazing things. Good for you.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:41:42]:
How about you take a chunk of that capital that you weren't going to invest in your, you know, medical office buildings or whatever stuff is Yeah. As solid as it could get. And let's do, let's let's go on an adventure. Right? Let's let's go with technology investing. I'm telling you right now, and that was the first time I ever pitched something that way, but I believed it. I said, I'm telling you right now, you're never gonna see this money again. You're absolutely gonna lose it all. It's incredibly high risk.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:42:10]:
I'm telling if you're thinking about returns, don't invest. And and it worked, and and so now I got lucky because the pandemic has been good to us. We've had some really nice exits with some really healthy multiples, but that wasn't the plan. Right? The plan was just to dip our toe in the water, see what VC is like, see what what cutting edge technology looks like, work with brilliant people, and then maybe we'll we'll make some money at the end. I know it's not a solid, business plan, but that's how it started. Yeah. That was the only way I could figure out to get Midwestern folks to invest in in, high risk tech, ventures.

Jeffrey Stern [00:42:47]:
What what is your thesis perspective on on how to replicate that? Do we, you know, do we need more of of, you know, you to to to raise those kind of funds? Do we need how do we really get at the core of at scale solving the problem?

Dr. Elad Granot [00:43:01]:
Yeah. I I inadvertently, I think I stepped on what I thought, or I still think worked. And and that is I drew a parallel between venture capital investing

Jeffrey Stern [00:43:10]:
Yeah.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:43:11]:
And philanthropy. And basically said, you know, it's it's disposable income, so to speak

Jeffrey Stern [00:43:17]:
Right.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:43:17]:
That you're putting towards causes that you think are important. Well, guess what? Regional economic development is important. Yeah. And and so, just because you might end up making money on the other side of it, great. But but but the you need to start investing. You know, you were talking about brain drain. Right? You were talking about, retaining all the bright people here. So so there's a lot to be said for philanthropy.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:43:38]:
It's incredibly important to support, marginalized groups and and, you know, causes that no one else is funding.

Jeffrey Stern [00:43:46]:
And it is such a dominant, you know

Dr. Elad Granot [00:43:48]:
Of course it is.

Jeffrey Stern [00:43:48]:
Part of Cleveland.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:43:49]:
So so so having said that, if if you don't invest in your strong players, right, you you will end up at the same place. And so you need to understand that maybe you take a fraction of what you're doing now, and say, you know what? I'm gonna I'm gonna, see what, jump start is up to. You don't have to be crazy like like me and set up your own fund. You don't have to go 1,000,000 of dollars in. See, you know, seek out opportunities for co investing like I was talking about for for, other organizations that are already working within that space, and put some of your philanthropy dollars towards that. It is philanthropy in in a sense. It's just capitalist philanthropy. I just coined some a new a new term.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:44:29]:
I think there's a switch that needs to be made. I think local government, city, county, state needs to lead by example. Yeah. And I think, you know, there like you say, there's so much capital here. I'm not I'm not saying just because you have it, you could throw it away. I'm saying invest it. Invest it in in the people, and the ventures might even work out as well.

Jeffrey Stern [00:44:52]:
Right. There's there's a chance.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:44:54]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:44:55]:
Really interesting. I I feel like we could talk about this stuff for a long time. How do you think about, you know, piecing together all these things, you know, as a practitioner helping educate, what does success look like for you? How do you think about, you know, the impact and in retrospect, you know, what what kind of impact you would like to have?

Dr. Elad Granot [00:45:11]:
As a business school dean, success first and foremost is every single one of my graduates either getting a job or going to grad school or starting their own business. That's that's success. So a 100% would be success. We're very close to that, by the way, but it's it's something you keep working at. And so that's a measurable KPI, and and I I I think it's critical. I also see success as moving the needle. Right? And so you could tell, by listening to what I've been saying today that I'm extremely passionate about building this entrepreneurial innovative ecosystem and and understand the importance of capital to that, to to fulfilling that dream. Right? And so I'm doing everything I can to produce a, awareness, to that.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:45:54]:
It isn't taken for granted. And then produce talent, and then try and build capital both both in terms of actual money, but also in terms of resources.

Jeffrey Stern [00:46:04]:
Yeah.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:46:04]:
And and and really create a shift. I have to say that I'm incredibly optimistic about the change of the guard in some of the most, important institutions around here. Right? From Mayor Bibb to Dan Hampu at the Morgan Foundation to, you know, leadership in in in our institution and others to, leadership at at the health systems to Baiju at, GCP.

Jeffrey Stern [00:46:27]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:46:27]:
It's just it it's a tangible change of the guard. Not saying the old guard was bad, but it's time for for, a new wave, and and and we can feel it. And so we're talking about, you know, how there's one degree of separation here. When you go to events around here, whether it's a GCP event or John Carroll event or a North Coast Ventures event or whoever it is, it's always a group of 250 people.

Jeffrey Stern [00:46:53]:
Yep.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:46:53]:
We all see each other all the time. It's it's great, because we all know each other, and it's easier to cut through the barriers of getting stuff done. But I'd like to see that expand. And I think, naturally, a, institution of higher education is designed to make that expansion, which is why I'm opening up my campus to the community. You know, come have your event at John Carroll. Come, you know, I'll I'll charge you with cost or not charge you at all. I'll sponsor you, because I think it's important to have, higher education as a major, major player within a successful ecosystem.

Jeffrey Stern [00:47:25]:
Yeah. Absolutely. I love the idea of of moving the needle. I I like your framing actually of, like, success is is is job placement. I think one of the kind of interesting things about higher ed recently is like, there's been sort of this like credibility crisis like what what is the purpose of

Dr. Elad Granot [00:47:39]:
the reason by the way.

Jeffrey Stern [00:47:40]:
What is the purpose of higher ed? You know, why why have costs gone up so much and it's not entirely obvious, like, what

Dr. Elad Granot [00:47:47]:
No. I I I think we earned all that criticism. I really do. And and and so what I'm saying might seem sacrilegious to some of my colleagues, but I I don't really care. The bottom line is that we need to be producing talent into the ecosystem. And so, you know, I just had a debate with with one of my colleagues, because I'm implementing a tech core into the business school. Yeah. I I I think it's irresponsible to let, people graduate from business school without understanding technology.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:48:15]:
I'm not looking for them to be coders or developers or anything, but how can an accounting, major graduate without understanding blockchain? Or a finance major, graduate without having an idea about applications of Fintech? And so on and so on. And so I'm implementing that into the curriculum of the business school. Now we're a liberal arts institution. I have nothing against liberal arts. My undergraduate degree is in English. I think it's it's it's fundamental to the identity of a young person. Yeah. However, I cannot imagine how a young person can go into the marketplace without a fundamental understanding of proficiency of technology.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:48:50]:
And so I'm I'm building that as something that eventually I'll require. And so I had a a semi debate with one of my colleagues where where I said, you know, it's important for university and college students to to gain tech proficiency before they graduate. And the response was, well, I don't see why, an English student needs to know about AI. And and and and classic, classic turn of events, chat gpt comes out. Yeah. That's Right? Yep. And and and so, the reason, since I've heard about, chat GPT, the reason that an English major should know about AI is that AI is eating its lunch.

Jeffrey Stern [00:49:28]:
Oh, yeah.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:49:29]:
I

Jeffrey Stern [00:49:29]:
mean, I I won't fully out my brother who's a senior in college still, but when he was back with me over Thanksgiving, I was like, Corey, you gotta check out ChattGPT across computer science, his law, and his business courses. It did all of his homework. Of course.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:49:42]:
And and so, and, yeah, I mean, there was a Harvard Business Review article that was published by 3 really well known professors about Chat GPT, and at the very end, the note said, by the way, we submitted our draft of this paper to Chat GPT and told it to make it more interesting, and it did. And so chat GPT has a Harvard Business Review piece under its name.

Jeffrey Stern [00:50:06]:
Yep.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:50:06]:
And so but the point is anything that AI can do, it will. You know, there was this guy I just read about yesterday that published a children's book. You know, Chat GPT wrote it. Some other AI, illustrated it. The guy never wrote a sentence in his life, and he's he's a published author. Right? And so that's how quick things are changing. And if you don't have an appreciation for technology, and again, nothing against philosophy degrees or all that stuff, even though, you know, you gotta have a plan on how you're gonna live, but but nothing against it as a foundation of of this spiritual essence of a person. I really am for it.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:50:40]:
But if you if you ignore technology or or if you don't teach it like, most of the, universities, don't, you are Doing a disservice. An incredible disservice. You you you are neglecting your responsibilities. And so, back to what you were saying, you know, cost of attendance and all the other stuff, have risen. Yeah. ROI, not so much. And so I think I think the costs that are rising are are acceptable if ROI increases. Right? I can't get into, you know, every single reason for the cost increases other than supply and demand is one thing.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:51:17]:
And I'm off, you know, like I said, I'm a capitalist.

Jeffrey Stern [00:51:19]:
Yeah.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:51:20]:
You you wanna pay me a $100 for your degree? Thanks. I'll I'll write you a receipt. And and so, having said that, I can't sustain it if I don't provide, you know, solid ROI. I think our our our, sector, our industry is justifiably criticized.

Jeffrey Stern [00:51:36]:
Yeah.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:51:37]:
And so we need to we need to provide a lot more applicable education with the understanding that if you cannot sustain a life and a career with what you learned at school, you should have second thoughts.

Jeffrey Stern [00:51:51]:
Yeah. How far from consensus constrained do you feel your position is? Because in some ways, I my my sense as an outsider not not involved really in academia is I don't know that universities have really grasped the what might be like existential risk for for some of them who have been kind of complacent, you know, relying on their brand.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:52:10]:
I think I'm, a pariah. I'm pretty sure. And I again, you could probably tell I don't care. But the the the here's the issue. We cannot continue to do what we're doing because competition will eat us alive. Right. And it's already happening. Yeah.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:52:22]:
And so, you know, the the reality is proving me right. And I always give the example of the tech companies, but eventually, it'll be everybody. And every company is a tech company, but what I mean is by traditional, you know, Facebook, Google, Intel, Amazon, they are telling young people, forget about college. Come here. We'll train you Yeah. And we'll give you a job. They're doing that precisely because of what I was saying. It's because I'm not preparing them to work at Google.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:52:49]:
Google doesn't wanna be in the higher ed industry. It has no choice. And they're basically looking around the marketplace and go, oh my god. These people don't know anything that I need them to know. Yep. And so it's our responsibility to to make sure that we're in tune with the employer market, or the employer market is gonna skip right over us. And so, you know, you're seeing you're seeing high school, sorry. You're seeing college, dropouts, like Zuckerberg and others saying skip college.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:53:15]:
Of course, there's one Zuckerberg. Right? And and in Cleveland, there aren't any Zuckerbergs. So you go to college here, your life is gonna be better. There's no question. The the the, the stats are very clear. Your, lifelong income is is about $1,000,000 more than if you wouldn't.

Jeffrey Stern [00:53:30]:
Yep. I

Dr. Elad Granot [00:53:30]:
mean, it's pretty clear between the coasts that you should go to college. And so but it's eroding, it's all self inflicted, and so you need more folks, insisting on tangible results, ROI, and, lifelong learning, which which is something that, you know, we're we're in the 4 year come in, get your degree, and leave model. That is not a good place to be.

Jeffrey Stern [00:53:55]:
Mhmm. Really interesting. Yeah. We'll kinda bookend it a little bit here, but maybe just kind of a greenfield question, you know, reflecting on your your time as an entrepreneur as, you know, helping people into the entrepreneurial ecosystem, investing in in founders, parting wisdom, you know, about that, and then we'll we'll bring it to our our closing question.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:54:15]:
Yeah. My my, I I don't know about wisdom, but I can give a part of the statement. I think it's important to focus on innovation as as a driving force. And and so, you know, there's a lot of people who would say follow your dream and all the other stuff. Great. Innovation is is its own motivation. Without it, you you lose competitive position. And and so if if there's anything to learn from from history, and I'm a history buff, a business history, if you can call it, and like I said, I'm looking at a grave mistakes that and failures, it's usually around the enterprise ceasing to innovate.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:54:56]:
And so be a deliberate innovator, and the way to do that is to be completely open to criticism, which is insanely difficult because there's an ego situation. All of us who have gotten to some sort of, position in in in our careers have done so because we have, some degree of, ego, and the more success the ego usually tends to inflate, not deflate. And so being aware of that, having a sense of humor, and and not taking yourself, too seriously will allow you to be more innovative. There's nothing worse than saying, I've achieved everything I need to achieve. This is how it's gonna be. No. It's not. There's somebody trying to innovate right now.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:55:34]:
Might as well be you.

Jeffrey Stern [00:55:36]:
Yeah. Awesome. Ask the traditional closing question

Dr. Elad Granot [00:55:39]:
Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:55:40]:
Which is we'll bring back to Cleveland. Not for your favorite thing in Cleveland, but for something that other folks may not know about, a hidden gem.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:55:49]:
Yeah. It's interesting. So so, you know, I don't know how many hidden gems, there are anymore because Cleveland's now become fashionable. Right? So when when we moved here, we came here from Massachusetts in in 2006, and I remember people asking me, Cleveland? Are you insane? And and and then the other question was, which side? I said, their sides? I didn't know there were sides to Cleveland. And and so, one of the things that we we ended up on the east side, and one of the things that we discovered that there was a hidden gem for us, and we still find ourselves, going back to is, Chagrin Falls all year round. First of all, it reminds us a little bit of New England, where we came from.

Jeffrey Stern [00:56:25]:
It does. Yeah.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:56:27]:
But it also is is is a within, an incredibly short driving distance. It's like we're in a different universe. And and so it's not so much a hidden gem anymore, but it's still a gem.

Jeffrey Stern [00:56:38]:
Yeah. Awesome. Well, thank you Thank you. Very much for for coming on, for sharing your your story, your thoughts, opinions.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:56:44]:
I enjoyed it. Thank you

Jeffrey Stern [00:56:45]:
very much as well. Yeah. Thanks. If people had anything they wanted to follow-up with you about, what would be the the best way?

Dr. Elad Granot [00:56:51]:
The best way is to connect to me on LinkedIn. Just punch in my my, first and last name, or my handle is Higher Ed OKR. OKR standing for objectives and known results, which is, Intel's way of doing strategy. We could have another, episode just about that.

Jeffrey Stern [00:57:08]:
Yep. Yep. Awesome. Well, thank you again.

Dr. Elad Granot [00:57:10]:
Thank you.

Jeffrey Stern [00:57:12]:
That's all for this week. Thank you for listening. We'd love to hear your thoughts on today's show. So if you have any feedback, please send over an email to jeffrey@layoftheland.fm, or find us on Twitter at podlayoftheland or @sternjefe, j e f e. If you or someone you know would make a good guest for our show, please reach out as well and let us know. And if you enjoy the podcast, please subscribe and leave a review on iTunes or on your preferred podcast player. Your support goes a long way to help us spread the word and continue to bring the Cleveland founders and builders we love having on the show. We'll be back here next week at the same time to map more of the land.