#107: Aleksandra Brankov & Cole Worley (Cafilia)

Aleksandra Brankov [00:00:00]:
Coffee shops, they do things better. Right? They get the right beans. They they roast it the right way. They do it better than the big chains. Right? But we just are want to tell their story better together. So, yeah, I mean, our our ultimate goal and our vision is to be in every major US city and unite local coffee shops in the whole country in that sense.

Jeffrey Stern [00:00:22]:
Let's discover the Cleveland entrepreneurial ecosystem. We are telling the stories of its entrepreneurs and those supporting them. Welcome to the Lay of the Land podcast, where we are exploring what people are building in Cleveland. I am your host, Jeffrey Stern. And today, I had the real pleasure of speaking with Alexandra Brankov and Cole Worley, the cofounders of Cophelia. Cophelia is a Cleveland startup and network of curated local coffee shops where people can purchase monthly memberships and enjoy a sustainable and community driven coffee experience. Alexandra is a proud product of Serbian immigrant parents. Born in Cleveland, Ohio, she moved to Europe to continue her professional career in strategy implementation consulting for Global Fortune 500s after receiving her master's in international management in Madrid, Spain.

Jeffrey Stern [00:01:15]:
Now back in Cleveland, Alexandra came up with the idea for Cophelia during a winter retreat in Canada and decided to pursue it, launching the pilot program in July of 2020 in the Cleveland market. Cole had earned his degree studying marketing and entrepreneurship at the University of Dayton and has worked with companies all over the world in marketing, business development, and product management capacities. He has had a hand in launching new business units, managing mass market and luxury products, and consulting with small and medium sized businesses. In addition, Cole led and organized the startup bus competition across North America, where people come together, pitch their skills and startup ideas, form teams, build and launch a product in just 3 days, all while traveling to a final destination on the bus. Collectively, Cole and Alexandria are working to bring Cophelia to every major city, all in support of local, sustainable, and quality coffee for coffee shop owners and coffee enthusiasts alike. We cover everything from historical coffee macro trends to the meaning of kephilia the word itself to managing a coffee subscription service. Please enjoy my conversation with Alexandra Brankhubb and Coal World. I had the pleasure of sitting down with both of you a few weeks ago, and so I feel like I got a little sneak peek in the in the how parts of your stories collectively come together, kind of like an exciting trailer for what our conversation today may be about.

Jeffrey Stern [00:02:51]:
But, I've been looking forward to it to have you both on to kind of share it more broadly. So thank you for for for joining me today.

Cole Worley [00:03:00]:
Sure. Of course, happy to be here.

Jeffrey Stern [00:03:02]:
So I would love to go through, you know, both of your backgrounds and how you know, your your paths begin to to overlap and and to cross. But, Alexandra, how about you kinda set the stage for us here and tell us a little bit about your yourself?

Aleksandra Brankov [00:03:20]:
Yeah. So I am born in Cleveland, originally from here. I say I'm a proud, product of Serbian immigrant parents. It's really shaped me into who I am today. I went to the University of Akron for my degree in international business. And after graduating, I ended up moving to Europe, for personal reasons. I got married, moved to London, and then after London, decided to apply for a master's program in business, and I got into a top ten business school in Madrid, Spain, an IE Business School, so we ended up moving to Madrid, like my you know, basically realizing my dreams of living in Spain one day. And, yeah, moved to Madrid, did my master's there, and then got a job in a consulting, a local consulting company, doing strategy implementation consulting for Fortune 500s, an amazing experience I had, and I mean, I felt very fortunate to get this job when it was a 25% unemployment market at the time in Spain.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:04:24]:
So I worked there for a few years until my husband and I decided to move back to the States. And then, just because parents are here in Cleveland, it became you know, it was our home base in the beginning, and then he ended up getting a job, and then I ended up going into my own ventures here, and so here we are for right now.

Jeffrey Stern [00:04:41]:
Uh-uh. All roads lead back to Cleveland.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:04:45]:
Who knows? Who knows where life will take us? But for now, we are here, and of course, this is where I launched Cophelia originally and look forward to seeing what the future brings.

Jeffrey Stern [00:04:55]:
Me as well. We're we're glad you're here.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:04:58]:
Thank you.

Jeffrey Stern [00:05:00]:
Cole, how about, you share a little bit about yourself as well and your your own path?

Cole Worley [00:05:05]:
Sure. It's kind of funny how similar our backgrounds are in a way. I'm also a boomerang. So I grew up in the Cleveland area on the East side in Sugarman Falls and moved away for college and didn't really come back for about almost 10 years. So I studied marketing and entrepreneurship at the University of Dayton. And while I was in college, I got introduced to the the business scene in Southeast Asia. And from there, I got an internship opening a new hotel. Then after graduation, I I moved there and I I got a job basically starting new business units for a small investment firm and loved it.

Cole Worley [00:05:49]:
Basically, got to manage, luxury lifestyle products like cigars, whiskey stuff. We had a chain of member only clubs as well as, we started up a mega yacht sales project. Now, unfortunately, that project never never finished because 2,008 happened. Most of our funding for all the new stuff died up. And as things went on in 2009, I ended up leaving and, moved back to Cleveland, Ohio in 2010. And honestly, it was like a stepping off point because I had been away for a number of years and thought, it's okay, let's reconnect with family and, I'll find a job somewhere, but I never thought I'd be living in Cleveland today if you could talk to me back then. So Me neither. Yeah.

Cole Worley [00:06:41]:
And what actually kept me here were the the people I met through this organization called Startup Bus. And I guess Yeah. Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:06:49]:
And Let's let let's go through that that, you know, I've actually been I've been wanting to talk about Startup Bus on the podcast for a long time, and I haven't had anyone to to tell us about it. But I've I found it just to be this amazing concept and and thing in practice. So so please tell us a little bit

Cole Worley [00:07:06]:
about that. Sure. I am by no means the only Clevelander that has participated, supported it, organized, or even led the organization. I may be one of the first national directors, but in 2011 was the very first year that startup bus became continent wide or nationwide. They did one bus in 2010 that went from San Francisco to Austin, Texas. And that was literally a thrown together crazy idea that started because Ilya, the founder, was just having fun with friends and shooting the shit and said, hey, wouldn't it be great to put a bunch of us on a bus and build a build a startup and launch it at South by Southwest? And, you know, his stories is well published out there. You can look it up and hear it in his own words, but it garnered some attention. So, he's like, all right, let's do this bigger.

Cole Worley [00:08:03]:
And that's when the people that rode that first bus went back to their home cities, and Cleveland just so happened to have, one of the original buspreneurs as we call them. People who ride the start up bus. Anthony Brad Crawford, he was the guy that organized the very first Cleveland effort. And I was new to Cleveland as an adult, I should say. And it was a totally different town than when I left. So, I really didn't know anybody. Networks were pretty thin. And I had been interviewing for jobs, but zero offers back then.

Cole Worley [00:08:40]:
Lots of interviews, no offers. And, it's like, okay, I gotta do something different. Saw this little blurb on Twitter and said, okay, I'm gonna show up and just see what this is all about. Met him and a handful of other people that ended up being on the bus, but it's like you have to apply. You have to prove that you're worthy to ride the bus. Didn't know what I was getting myself into. I was just like, okay, this sounds kind of up my alley. Why not? I know how to start a business.

Cole Worley [00:09:07]:
I've been I've done it a handful of times for other people. Why not do this thing and check out what this South by Southwest thing is all about? Didn't know much about that either. So I did it. And if you could say I drank the Kool Aid, I drank it hard because love the experience. Definitely not easy. And it's like being in a pressure cooker in the form of a motor coach for 3 days with people that you've never met before, but yet now you've all been through this hardship that you've created really strong bonds. So, these are people that I became pretty much instant friends with just by the nature of the hardship of trying to build a product and launch it when Now, mind you, this was in 2011 when 4 gs hadn't officially launched yet. So building a product back in the days of very spotty mobile internet.

Cole Worley [00:10:05]:
But we did get I could imagine. Yeah. AT and T's 4 gs network back then. That was kinda cool. So, did that, got involved with the organizing group as the organization started to formalize itself and, kept going back for more, more pain and torture if you will, but it always was rewarding in the end.

Jeffrey Stern [00:10:25]:
So so we have at this point, both of you back in Cleveland. How how do the 2 of you how do your paths begin to to intersect? Tell us a little bit about about that.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:10:38]:
So I got the idea for Cophelia in February 2019. There's a few months that I was thinking, you know, what to do? Should I move forward with this? I was just trying to think, like, what was my next professional career step? I ultimately decided June of that year of 2019 to pursue Cophelia full time. So I started with market research. Here in Cleveland, there's an organization some may know about called Jumpstart. They hosted an event that was called start up scale up. It was an event for entrepreneurs where they were just showcasing, like, all the all the resources that, Cleveland has for entrepreneurs. Other entrepreneurs came to it. It was actually a really great event, and it was perfect timing for me since it happened June of that year.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:11:23]:
So all of a sudden, I was exposed to the Cleveland entrepreneurial ecosystem, which I honestly did not know even existed. Again, I was also gone for a number of years, but, you know, it just wasn't something that was on my radar here in Cleveland. And then from there, I met a lot of those entrepreneurial organizations, a lot that are funded by the state of Ohio, and the Hispanic Business Center was one of them. And so, you know, I was actually recommended by a coffee shop owner, in fact, that became a friend to go check him out because he ended up getting some entrepreneurial help from them in the form of advising. And so, anyway, I ended up going there, and, you know, I I connected with Cole there. So he was the marketing and tech advisor at, the Hispanic Business Center, and we just hit it off from the first meeting. He just I think I think I surprised him with, with my business idea when I came in. Right?

Cole Worley [00:12:14]:
That's totally true. Yes.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:12:17]:
He was maybe used to hearing like, oh, this is the new hair salon that I wanna open up down the street or or, you know, whatever. Whether it's a restaurant or whatever it is. And here I am, like, you know, I want to completely unite local coffee shops around the country and, you know, everything else that the concept entailed. And so, obviously, huge scalable potential. And, anyway, so that's how we met, and then we just basically stayed in touch. And he was advising me over the next year or 2, and I officially asked him to join Cophilia, last like me. And, and he was, I mean, he was very happy to join, right?

Cole Worley [00:12:57]:
Yeah. That

Aleksandra Brankov [00:12:58]:
was that

Cole Worley [00:12:59]:
was exciting. Did my due diligence, of course, and said, alright. I'm in. Let's do this.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:13:04]:
Yes. So but I mean, I've always felt like he was part of it it's just been me as a sole founder since 2019, but I always did feel like he was this, like, natural extension of me and the team, and, like, he was part of the team I would refer to when we would talk. I would refer to any plans we would do with, like, we versus, like, I wanna do this. What do you think? More so, like, how shall we do this? You know? So it was a matter of time before I wanted to make it official.

Jeffrey Stern [00:13:34]:
So when you when you first came to the to the business center and kind of pitched this this idea, where where did it come from? How did you come up with what, you know, you're now working on in the form of Cophelia?

Aleksandra Brankov [00:13:48]:
So February 2019, I ended up I was kind of between I was looking for actually corporate jobs before then because, I came from, like, an amazing experience in Spain in this corporate environment working for these great big companies, and I learned so much, and I just thought there's so much to learn and more, you know, getting a job in another company and continue learning before maybe one day I do my own thing. Anyway, I was at that point, I was in between jobs, and I went to this retreat in, Ontario, Canada with my friends. It was winter. We were just all you know, they had little cafeteria, you know, the whole setup. And I remember we were sitting there eating lunch one one day, and I noticed that they all had their reusable mugs that they brought with them. But I also noticed, like, where the tea and coffee were since, you know, this place was providing us food and drink. They also had styrofoam cups over there, but I noticed everyone is actually using their reusable cups. And I'm the kind of person that just likes to question, like, just even the simple reasons or ways, like, people think or do things.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:14:52]:
And I remember sitting at this cafeteria table and just picking up one of those reusable cups and thinking, wow, I wonder if there's a way you can just buy this one reusable cup and be able to use it wherever you go for coffee. But, like, just you buying it from, like, from the very beginning, that one cup, you don't have to pay for coffee after that, and it kind of sparked from there. So it came from, like, this whole sustainable angle first in a sense where I was impressed that my friends were using their reusable cups, and then, yeah, like this I got this this idea just sparked, and then I actually even though it was, like, this nice relaxing retreat, I ended up, like, getting a flip chart out, and I just started, like, writing all over it, like, who would this benefit? And I'm like, wow. This makes so much sense to benefit the local coffee shops that really have the pain point, and that, you know, they could really benefit from getting like that foot traffic and visibility and like everything else, and it just it just all ended up coming down, you know, coming down on paper. I, you know, I wrote things down. I even was, like, brainstorming with some friends, the different angles, and I still have that piece of paper. I'm I'm I'm keeping that for, you know, years down the line. I can say, like, this is where it started.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:16:04]:
I don't wanna frame it too soon.

Cole Worley [00:16:06]:
Yeah. Well, just for you for your own memorabilia.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:16:09]:
Yeah. Yeah. Maybe.

Cole Worley [00:16:10]:
It's for yourself. It's it's not for anyone else.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:16:12]:
Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:16:13]:
I mean, that that will will have incredibly powerful nostalgia to it, I think, over time.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:16:20]:
Yes.

Jeffrey Stern [00:16:20]:
That's that's the proverbial, you know, business plan on an napkin. That's that's really good.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:16:25]:
Except it's like a poster board paper, and I'm like, it's a little hard to say. It's like a flip chart.

Cole Worley [00:16:29]:
Oh, it is.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:16:31]:
It really is like a flip chart piece of paper. So

Jeffrey Stern [00:16:34]:
that's that's amazing, though. This idea manifests in, you know, from real world inspiration. How do you begin to go about understanding the problem right at the intersection of supporting local business and sustainability and you know, the the this model. How does, how does Cophelia then come to come to be?

Cole Worley [00:16:56]:
I was gonna lead lead you in, Alexandra, because I think this is where her consulting background really impressed me as the business advisor that she sat down with because I was like, wait, you've done what already? Some of the research?

Aleksandra Brankov [00:17:10]:
Yeah. She interviewed, what, 200, like, 70, 80 people in person.

Cole Worley [00:17:15]:
Oh, but there's a whole

Aleksandra Brankov [00:17:15]:
And then and then I had, like, over 500 survey respondents from, like, locally and all over the country and, like, different types of channels that I interviewed.

Cole Worley [00:17:22]:
I normally pull teeth to get that kind of info from a first time start founder.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:17:27]:
Yeah. I, like, loved doing the market research, actually. So so to answer your question first, I I did actually start putting the pieces together during that retreat. Like I said, on that paper identified, like, these are these are the pain points of local shops. This is, like, how this concept can benefit them. And, you know, obviously, slowly over time, it it developed. But as Cole was saying, so my first my first step in moving forward from like all my business school training over the years, right, is like market research is so important. And so Yeah.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:18:00]:
I started with I actually went to one of my the local coffee shop that was down the street for me, and, I talked to the owner first. I got a couple intros to, like, a couple coffee shop owners, just also talked to them on that side because our, like, Ophelia is this two sided market, right, where we have, like, local coffee shops on one side and then coffee drinkers on the other. And I wanted to get the points of view of both, obviously, to see, is this an idea that is worth it? Is it something that has, like, some type of a potential, you know, from both sides? So I sat down with some local coffee shop owners, kinda got their take on, not only how their business runs, but also, you know, this is the idea of what I'm thinking. You know, what do you guys think about this? And then one of those coffee shop owners, she also I asked her if I can do market research in her shop. So what I spent, like, doing in a whole month, I did I think that's what you were probably impressed about. I did 70 interviews within a month at this shop, and I

Jeffrey Stern [00:18:51]:
would just Oh my god.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:18:52]:
Shop. And I would just sit there, and I would be, like, truly working. I mean, my brain just got going. Like, how could this develop into this, like, amazing company one day? But, you know, people are sitting there, and I would just go up to them if they were alone and not, like, in conversation with someone else and just say, hey. I have this business idea, and I'm doing a survey, and, like, do you wanna tell me about coffee? Like, how you drink coffee, what your habits are? It's a it's a, you know, it's a coffee business. And, you know, coffee is very unintimidating, and if they're in a coffee shop, it's probably because they like coffee. So they were like, yeah. Sure.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:19:27]:
You know? So it was so interesting to obviously get all of that insight from the coffee drinkers within shops, and then I also launched, like, 3 different survey channels online, like one local, one national, just to really get a nice idea of just, like, what the public Publix coffee habits are and and all of that. And then I also did one other piece of market research that I also found important, which was, I know that I was interviewing people that were, like, sitting in coffee shops, but then I thought, like, there's also this missing element of the target market of people that are on the run and just, like, go into a coffee shop, get the to go coffee, and then go back to work. So there was, like, maybe about, like, 10 days where I would go to downtown Cleveland in the morning between usually, like, 8 and 10 AM. I would just stand outside, some of the local coffee shops. I had these little cards, like, business cards I printed that had a QR code on them, and I would just, it would say something like share your coffee habits with, like, a local start up. And I would just as people are coming out with their coffee, I would just say, hey. You know, this is a I have a business idea for a a coffee subscription start up. On your way back to the office or whenever you have time when you sit down, you can just scan this with a QR code and fill out my survey.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:20:47]:
And I actually ended up getting like 80 or 90 respondents on that, and that was after passing out about like 400 cards, so if you do like 3 issues, it's actually pretty good.

Jeffrey Stern [00:20:57]:
That's very good turnout. Yeah.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:21:01]:
But it was great. Obviously, like everything, like the more information and insights you have and like qualitative and quantitative, it's just it really helps you, you know, obviously, form, like, next steps and, you know, just give you a better understanding of the market. So

Cole Worley [00:21:14]:
Knowing your customer. Yes. That's huge. Mhmm. The next big thing was validation.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:21:19]:
Yeah. So with that, I ended up eventually, you know, signing my first ops and then, you know, launching July 2020.

Jeffrey Stern [00:21:27]:
So I think it it might be helpful, and I I also wanna ask, you know, just kinda what maybe the most surprising takeaways were from all that that customer research. But I think at this point, you know, just kind of what what was the pitch you were giving to to store owners? And and, you know, what how did you see Caplia as a business at that point?

Aleksandra Brankov [00:21:47]:
I mean, I saw it kind of as I already mapped it out. You know, just I wanted Cophelia to be this this this platform that brings, like, coffee drinkers and coffee local coffee shops together in a better and easier way. And so just, you know, how can I benefit coffee drinkers? Right? And how can I benefit local coffee shops and, like, solve their pain points? Which they definitely had some. You know, local coffee shops, they don't have the resources, whether it's, like, people or money as, like, the big chains do. Or time. Yeah. Or technology. Right? They don't have, like, the mobile ordering apps and, you know, everything else as Starbucks and Dunkin' do.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:22:25]:
So, yeah, it was a little bit of that.

Jeffrey Stern [00:22:29]:
What what were the most surprising takeaways from all of your interviews? Stuff that you really did not expect going into asking these kinds of questions.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:22:37]:
Well, like, one of the questions that really helped, like, it was a huge insight, I would say, is I asked people in the survey, what's the number one reason that keeps you from going to local coffee shops more? And across all the survey channels, so, like, these are different audiences, the number one answer was that local coffee shops are sometimes harder to find than chains. So it wasn't about price or, like, I live closer to this shop or, you know, whatever it is. It was just or or convenience, actually. It was like, sometimes they're harder to find. And I just thought that was really interesting that that was the number one answer across all those survey channels. And then that spoke like, that spoke to me where I was like, you know, even me as a personal consumer, if you type in local, like coffee shop into Google Maps, you will get the local shops, but you'll also get the gas stations, you'll get Starbucks, Dunkin', Winers maybe that might not really have like Basically. Coffee.

Cole Worley [00:23:35]:
Any establishment that has the word coffee on a menu.

Jeffrey Stern [00:23:39]:
Yeah.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:23:40]:
And that's just not I think for for for coffee drinkers that are becoming also, like, desiring quality, becoming more refined, which there are a like, it's a growing amount of the population. I mean, that's just not acceptable anymore, and it's actually just causes decision fatigue when you go on Google Maps and you just want to find a really, you know, a nice cool local coffee shop that you know is quality, that you know is, like, cute, has the vibes you want, whatever it is, and just be able to go to it. So I thought, like, that's a really important insight I got from that market research. Like, we need to showcase them, like, have people be able to discover them easier through Cophelia, and then whether that's locally here in the Cleveland market right now, but, I mean, with our vision of going across the whole country, imagine going to, like, another city just for the weekend that you don't know that city. And all you have to do is you just go on the future Cophelia app, you search for the local coffee shops in that area that are our partners, and you just take your cup with you to those shops. You don't have to make any decisions. There it's, like, the best shop for what you need that day. So, ultimately, that's what I mean, that's kind of giving you a little bit of insight, like, where where our vision for the future.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:24:53]:
But it was very interesting to just get that insight out, and it really kinda helped pave the way for where we need to, like, focus on and kind of help help consumers discover local coffee shops easier.

Jeffrey Stern [00:25:05]:
Yeah. I I really love the the whole idea of empowering local coffee shops that that maybe don't have the scale and infrastructure and, you know, all the technology and capital that the that the Starbucks is of of the world have. I'm curious, you know, just going up up a level to the kind of the market and and how, you know, coffee in our society has changed over the last few years. What what is that what does that look like and how is that kind of played out?

Cole Worley [00:25:37]:
Some people may have heard of like the different waves of coffee. I'm gonna jump in and like the 2nd wave. And, American, this is very generalized here, but American coffee before the nineties was considered something that's bitter, that keeps you awake, and you had to acquire a taste for it.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:25:58]:
And processed.

Jeffrey Stern [00:25:59]:
The acquired taste, for sure. Yes.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:26:01]:
Like Folgers and Maxwell. Let's just say it. Right?

Cole Worley [00:26:04]:
Yes. Basically, yes. Or the percolated version. Anyway, it required milk and sugar to be palatable for a lot of people. Enter Starbucks and its big, push to to really change the way that Americans, or I should say, change the relationship that Americans have with coffee. And they did that with the the 3rd place concept, and they did that really well. And I have to credit, Starbucks did a really good job elevating Coffee culture. The whole coffee culture.

Cole Worley [00:26:35]:
Yeah. In the US. Exactly.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:26:37]:
And they were emulating Italian coffee culture. That's, like, where their origins came from.

Cole Worley [00:26:41]:
Exactly. And it's also very strong in Italy. Mhmm. So that changed. And they've learned and they've perfected ways to to deliver coffee at consistent quality at a massive scale. I think they're either like the number 1 or number 2 coffee business out there. I think maybe Nestle might be bigger, but that was the 2nd wave and that definitely elevated everything. The 3rd wave is is kind of where we are today.

Cole Worley [00:27:06]:
And, a lot of people attribute the 3rd wave is originating on the West Coast, mostly like the Portland area, as to a more even more refined coffee experience where you have even higher quality original product, meaning working with the farmers to produce a consistent high quality coffee bean to the processing of the beans to make sure that everything is uncleanly. And not only just quality product, but also working with the people that produce the raw materials to make sure that it is a sustainable enterprise, making sure that people actually have fair living wages all the way down to, like, doing the the right things for the environment to sustain the crops as long as possible. All of that goes into producing a much higher quality coffee. But what does that really taste like? Well, it it means that there's different flavors to coffee than what we as Americans typically would associate. So, you go from like the 1950s to the 1990s of this super bitter Arabica Robusta Coffee mix to mostly Arabica coffees today, which, which is what is considered like a higher quality coffee. It has more flavor, slightly less caffeine. You know, obviously, there are way more coffee centric people than than even myself. In this 3rd wave, there's multiple different types of brewing.

Cole Worley [00:28:38]:
You get to experience the subtlety of the flavor a lot more. You don't roast the beans to a high rate so that they're super dark and I'm forgetting my, like, flavor words here, but caramelized in a way. So dark coffees tend to always taste the same because it's just roasted and you get that roasted flavor. Well, there's other flavors that are hiding in the beans if you don't roast it as long. And, you know, what those are are dependent upon, a lot of other factors that somebody else can listen to on another podcast. But

Aleksandra Brankov [00:29:10]:
But I would say practically speaking so, like, 3rd wave coffee is the same with how how wine went from, you know, like, people are really into, like, the different flavors of wine. I would compare Oh,

Jeffrey Stern [00:29:21]:
for sure. Yeah.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:29:22]:
For that. So, like, coffee used to be this, like, super basic commodity. Right? Like, as Cole described it. But then now we're entering, like, coffee does have so many flavor profiles, like, the same way, you know, wine does, like, for example. Right?

Jeffrey Stern [00:29:36]:
Right. It runs very parallel to, when we had Dan Conway from Great Lakes Brewing come on and he kinda gave the history of of beer production and and went from these, like, Goliath, very bland, you know, beer production to the to the craft brewers, and the whole proliferation of, I guess, craft brewing is maybe the equivalent to the 3rd wave of here of just focus on like the the nuance of the flavor and and, and local sustainable production.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:30:05]:
And then ultimately also being like more of an experience than just fuel. Right? And that's why Yeah. That's why there are so many beautiful local coffee shops now and coffee shop owners that are so dedicated to, you know, getting the right beans, like, brewing them really well, serving that nice cup that just, like, warms your day, you know. It's a totally different experience, you know.

Jeffrey Stern [00:30:28]:
So So from from a, you know, I signed up for for Cafulia, You know, walk us through what the experience is like for someone who is, you know, using it on on the consumption side. And then, you know, from the from the shop side, what what is their experience like as they as they work with you?

Aleksandra Brankov [00:30:51]:
So on the website, that's just where you sign up and you basically you go there and you get to choose, like, your own coffee plan. You can customize it to how much coffee you drink and what type of coffee you drink. So you can choose between 5, 10, 15, or 20 cups a month, depending on, again, how often you think you'll go out, and that's like cups of coffee that you'll get out in coffee shops. So you could choose how many cups of coffee, and then you choose if you're more like a drip or crafted coffee person. By crafted coffee, we mean, you know, the espresso drinks, the cold brews, pour overs, you know, things that the baristas really put, you know, time and effort into making versus just the, you know, very easy drip coffee. And then, and now we have 2 sizes. So actually, you can even choose if you want a 12 or 16 ounce. And once you put your coffee plan together, then you get your exclusive Cophelia cup.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:31:42]:
And it is a cup that is made from, glass, and it has a silicone lid and sleeve, so there's no plastic involved there. And, then that cup is actually your coffee wallet in a sense. So we've transformed this device that this vessel that you just used to carry liquid into something of monetary value. Because on the bottom of your cup, you have your own unique customer ID. So what happens then is once you get your cup, you just bring your cup into any of the local coffee shops that are part of our network to get your coffee filled via your cup and subscription. So that is, you know, in a nutshell, pretty much how it works. And there's really no concept out there in the whole country, like it, which is really cool. And we decided to launch it in Cleveland first.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:32:30]:
Exactly.

Jeffrey Stern [00:32:30]:
Which which is is amazing. A lot of questions from from here, but I I think maybe we could start with, you know, notoriously, it's very difficult to build the the the two sided marketplace where, you know, from the from the onset, you have to build up enough demand so that you can get the supply interested and you have to have enough supply so that you could get the demand interested, you know, through the lens of how you approached it in Cleveland. What what did that look like at the onset? What you know, how did you get sufficient buy in from from local store owners to to want to participate?

Aleksandra Brankov [00:33:05]:
So it was, like, early 2020. I think it was even it could have been before, like, the pandemic officially started, but I ended up, like, signing my first shop. And that was such a big deal for me because I'm like, oh my goodness. Somebody trusts me with this idea. I mean, it's just an idea, but they trust me with this business, and I'm forever grateful to that shop. So, basically, I did end up launching July 2020 with 5 coffee shops. That's how it kinda started. Right? And, actually, we got subscribers from the beginning, which was amazing because we did you know, from all the market research I did, I actually ended up, like, collecting a lot of emails that people willingly gave me for when it launches to let them know.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:33:44]:
Yeah. Just over time, like, now we have 23 local coffee shop partners and growing, you know, hopefully every month. So, yeah, that's kinda how it how it started with those 5. And and, yeah, I mean, it's true. Like you said, you do need you do need the supply. You need the local shops, right, in order to continue getting more subscribers. And we have a place on our website where people submit their favorite local coffee shop, and we have, like, hundreds of submissions. So people are obviously excited.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:34:11]:
Like, they want to see their local coffee shop join. And, yeah, it's just a matter of us, like, finally getting around to, you know, meeting with these coffee shop owners, getting them on board, and and and all of that. So so, yeah, it's exciting.

Jeffrey Stern [00:34:25]:
It's very exciting. Extrapolating from there. Right? How do you begin to think about what it is to scale, Ophelia? And, you know, take this this kind of proof point that you have of of what you've been able to accomplish here in Cleveland and replicate that, right? Because that's ultimately the goal, is it?

Cole Worley [00:34:48]:
Yes, of course. So Cleveland, every city has its own flavor. Here in Cleveland, we've learned a lot. You know, you make mistakes, you fix them and you move on, and you do your best to never make that mistake again. And this is a great place to learn because it's not too costly and keeping the business relatively small also keeps the mistakes again, not too costly. And call it the hometown pride, if you will. I think overall, I think our members have been pretty, understanding as this is a new concept as we put this together and as we continue to evolve and to build something better that can be replicated at larger scale. So, last year, we actually did some testing by exhibiting at the Columbus Coffee Festival.

Cole Worley [00:35:40]:
And the interest and support was beyond our expectation, actually. Columbus is a very interesting and ripe coffee market for a service like Cophelia. And we do have plans to launch later this year. That is very exciting. And in order to get to that scale, our internal business processes have to basically get rebuilt all over again. Because at every stage of growth, there is not just this nice, beautiful, linear ramp that we all get to walk through. No, it's, it's a grind and we have to climb to the next stair step level. And sometimes it's much harder to get to than others.

Cole Worley [00:36:19]:
But we're in process now to do a lot of, rebuilding on internally so that later this year when we do get to launch in the next Metro market that, we're able to handle a lot more throughput when it comes to the number of shops that we've onboarded, the the efficiencies there, as well as lots and lots of new coffee members. It yeah. There's just a lot of data that actually has to happen on the back end in order to keep all of these individualized subscriptions in check and fair. Also, like part of the benefit of being a member of Cophelia is that you pick your customized plan and you make one payment. But then you visit any shop that you want to on our network and their pricing is all going to be different. And, you know, we obviously different markets are gonna have different pricing. So we're doing our best to run the analysis and making sure that we can provide a bit of a discount to the member because that's that's one of the benefits that we'd we'd like to attract people with is that, yeah, they can save a little bit of cash on on what we're doing. It's not like we can give away unlimited everything.

Jeffrey Stern [00:37:35]:
I think,

Cole Worley [00:37:36]:
we looked into that. Of course, we wanted to. Like, that sounds great. I think that's an easy thing to sign up for. But it is a totally unsustainable business model. And we did find some pretty good examples of businesses in the coffee space that had tried that and are not around anymore. And we've watched how they pivoted and they left that space entirely. Again, they were slightly different than what we're doing, but yeah, unlimited doesn't work unless it's you're giving away pennies.

Cole Worley [00:38:09]:
And when you're giving away pennies for coffee, there's one chain that does this and that the coffee is not so good. So, again, we're we're focused on local communities, independent local quality shops. And the big part here is quality, and quality doesn't come free. But we're going to make, every effort we can to make it as accessible and easy to find as possible.

Jeffrey Stern [00:38:36]:
What does, Cophilia mean? I realized at the onset, we forgot to kinda talk about that, but I we've said the word so many times.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:38:43]:
Yeah. So, back when I in 2019, when I was, like, going, you know, thinking whether I should pursue this idea or not, and I did decide. I decided, alright. Let's do this. And I was thinking, though, what name to call it. And, like, having lived a a course in, like I said, different countries as well, obviously, I mentioned at the very beginning, my background's Serbian, so I've been to Serbia so many times. And anywhere you go, actually, I mean, even Southeast Asia, Australia, anywhere. Coffee just has this magic of bringing people together, right, and, like, forming community.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:39:17]:
And I think, like, local coffee shops, they get into the business to provide great coffee, but also create community in that local neighborhood. And so as I was thinking, you know, I actually went through this, like, design thinking exercise with a good friend of mine from Barcelona. And as we're doing this, you know, he's asking me if you've heard about the Golden Circle by Simon Sinek. And you start with, like, the why's in the middle, and then there's the how and then the what. And we were going through this exercise, and when we got to the why, he's like, well, what's the why? And, like, what's the and, you know, it was you know, at the at that early stage, I was, like, struggling. Like, what is the why? And then he's like, well, what's your personal why? Mhmm. And I remember thinking, like, alright. Just be as simple as possible.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:39:59]:
You know? What is my why? And I guess my why was just, like, connecting people and, like, loving peep like, loving friends, bringing friends together, bringing people together. I love that. I'm an extrovert. I love people. I love bringing people together, and I was like, that's really my why. And then I also remembered, studying, actually, like, in Greek, the 4 there's, like, 4 words for the word love, in Greek, and so philia was one of those words. And philia in Greek is kind of like that friendship brotherly kind of love, and that's why, like, Philadelphia, for instance, it has the name the city of brotherly love because of the root, Philadelphia. And so I was like, oh, that's it.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:40:39]:
That's it. It just, like, perfectly describes it describes me as a founder. It describes what coffee does. It describes what local coffee shops do. It's just perfect, like philia. Yeah. And then, like, just maybe, you know, I gave it a few more days, and then I'm like, what about caephilia? Right? Like, adding the CA to it. And that way, it gave it, like, a subtle coffee cafe, like, feel, but without being too obvious.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:41:03]:
You know, I never wanted to name this business something that had anything to do with, like, the word coffee, beans, Java, anything. And so I was like, this is perfect. And then I found out, like, it's actually a super unique word. Like, it's not it is, like, you know, it wasn't on social media.

Jeffrey Stern [00:41:18]:
Is is it a word? Like, an act or it it sounds like you've you've constructed it.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:41:23]:
Yeah. I made the word. Yeah. Yeah. And no. What I'm saying is, like, it wasn't even it was trademarked. There wasn't, like, a website. There wasn't anything.

Jeffrey Stern [00:41:30]:
I was

Aleksandra Brankov [00:41:30]:
like, wow. This was, like, so perfect. Anyway, so that's that's basically, like, the origin. It was so we, like, we described Kaffili, and we actually made t shirts, for the Columbus Coffee Festival. We're, like, the definition of Kaffiliya is bringing, creating the friendship kind of coffee through commute oh, how was it exactly? Can you do you remember that?

Cole Worley [00:41:50]:
It's literally a, like, a dictionary graphic artist Yeah. Or art of a dictionary entry and, incomplete with a phonetic section.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:41:59]:
Oh, I remember. It was spreading the friendship kinda love through coffee and community. I believe that's what it was.

Cole Worley [00:42:06]:
That sounds right. That sounds right. I almost wore the shirt today.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:42:10]:
And we just think that's, you know, it's just such a nice definition. I love why I like the origins in Greek, just from, like, my, like, international background and, like, my interests. And so, yeah, that's that's the origin of cophelia as a word.

Cole Worley [00:42:23]:
I might add that, when Alexandra first came into my office, she already had all of this done. And I was like, so what are you gonna call this business? And she said, Cophelia. I was like, oh, I've never heard anything like that. That sounds interesting. Tell me more. And I heard this story and like, oh, wow, don't even have to work on branding right now.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:42:43]:
This is good.

Jeffrey Stern [00:42:45]:
No, starting with why it's such a cool, I think, origin of it all. And I think it it gets at, you know, what maybe success ultimately looks like from a future retrospective, you know, perspective. But I am curious how, you know, going back to the ideas of, you know, kind of being at the intersection of local business and sustainability, How do you want to measure impact and what does that mean to you?

Cole Worley [00:43:16]:
I can say that we have grand plans to be able to capture all the data that I should say we are capturing the data, but we'd love to be able to have the time and effort to present it back to our membership and to the public. There's a lot of really good examples out there of companies who are either publishing like transparency reports or putting their money where their values are. We are looking into becoming B Corp certified. There is an effort going on there. So, in terms of how to quantify what our metric is, we'd love to almost gamify the sustainability elements for our members because you can quantify every time you avoid putting trash in the bin. And so that's something that is continually racking up every time a member redeems one of their coffees. And on our website, we have a little bit of information about this, about like a typical coffee user and how much you can actually avoid putting into landfill. And I'd love to get further into that in terms of a common denominator, whether it's like the carbon or a CO2 capture.

Cole Worley [00:44:30]:
I mean, there's there's so many different elements and I'm not an expert in that field, but I've I definitely want to get to that point.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:44:38]:
Yeah. I would say like the impact of sustainability as you asked is, like for instance, if you throw away 3 if you drink 3 to go cups of coffee per week, which is like if you're a coffee drinker and you leave your house, like you don't work at home and make coffee at home, that's like a pretty reasonable number to get coffee out, per week. Over a course of a year, you throw away a 156 cups of coffee, and actually, you can multiply that by 3 in terms of, like, the waste. So you have the cup, lid, and sleeve, and all three of those elements actually get thrown away. So so that is, like, a 156 cups a whole year. I mean, it's a ton that really doesn't have to be thrown away. So that's where I can see, like, an impact, from the sustainability angle. And, yeah, we you know, as we grow and we're able to quantify that even more in different ways, I think that that is going to be great.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:45:30]:
And then as far as, like, the practical impact of coffee shops, you know, I always say coffee shops, they do things better. Right? They get the right beans. They they roast it the right way. They do it better than the big chains. Right? But we just are want to tell their story better together. So, yeah, I mean, our our ultimate goal and our vision is to be in every major US city and unite local coffee shops in the whole country in that sense, because I think I mean, at that point, if we end up creating that, I mean, Starbucks and Dunkin' and Panera, I mean, we are going to be we can have a huge segment of the market if we're able to create some type of a unified, local coffee shop market there. Yeah. But ultimately, it's like it's for the benefit of the local coffee shops.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:46:16]:
Right? Like, of course of course, we benefit from it too. You know, we're creating a business, but our 2 pillars that the company stands on is supporting local coffee shops and, helping people become more environmentally sustainable in a very easy way. In short, that's our biggest impact that we plan on doing on, you know, a large scale. So you can imagine, like, how many shops, how many coffee shops there are, how many major US cities. I mean, it it can be huge.

Jeffrey Stern [00:46:41]:
Yeah. I mean, thinking about it at that enormity of scale, I imagine, and I'm if if you were to, like, take stock of a lot of those, you know, marketplace businesses that have this real geographically specific component to them and how they built that out over time, A lot of capital maybe is is required. How are you thinking about, you know, having proved, you know, the model scaling it from from the the kind of, you know, support that that you might need to to realize that vision that you have?

Aleksandra Brankov [00:47:15]:
Well, funding.

Cole Worley [00:47:17]:
Yeah. We we That's

Aleksandra Brankov [00:47:17]:
a short answer.

Cole Worley [00:47:18]:
We will need a lot more financial resource.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:47:22]:
For the scaling bit. Yes. Definitely. Yeah.

Cole Worley [00:47:24]:
So, yeah, we're we're we're looking at how other businesses that have similar relationship needs in each local community and how they were able to scale. And some businesses they scaled very quickly, but also created a lot of their friction along the way. If you look at how Uber Scaled is like an example there, it was cunning and ingenious, but also created a lot of friction. And on the other hand, a little bit slower to roll out, but also very successful is the story of Instacart, for example, who might add 2 of the 3 founders, were also coworkers of mine and startup us. So, it's like, okay, if I knew people who would do this, I'm sure I could figure out figure this out eventually too. But yes, it's gonna take a lot more people and a lot more money. And those talks those talks have started. So, I'm excited.

Cole Worley [00:48:20]:
Like, they're there.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:48:20]:
Anybody listening? Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:48:21]:
If

Aleksandra Brankov [00:48:22]:
they, you know, reach out.

Jeffrey Stern [00:48:27]:
Amazing. As you look to the future in the next few months and and fundraising and and all the, you know, the rollout to to other markets, what has you each, you know, respectively most, most excited?

Aleksandra Brankov [00:48:40]:
I mean, I'm excited for like, so when I tell people about, you know, what the potential Cophilia has where, like, you have so you have your coffee plan, you have your cup, and you plan on going to Austin for the weekend or Miami for the week. And you can just, like, bring your cup, not have to like, you have no idea about, like, the coffee shop market in that city. You might know it in your own city, not anywhere else, and just be able to bring your cup, find a local coffee shop, and and go to it and enjoy it without having that decision fatigue. I mean, when I tell people this, I mean, we haven't even talked to a coffee shop owner today, and he said I mean, he literally said that to us before we even said it to him, where he's like, I could totally see this being amazing where, like, when you go travel, you just bring your cup. And it like, so the more we can kinda connect the cities and connect local coffee shops across the country, you know, connecting the, obviously, the coffee drinkers with the shops, I mean, this is where it's just so full of potential there for me, and I'm very excited about that part.

Cole Worley [00:49:43]:
Totally. And I've been in love with coffee since I I had to launch a little business in 2007 for the investment firm I worked for. I was like, wow, how did I not know that coffee could be this good and great? Yeah. And I was in love with it ever since. And I, I, my friends at the time called me a coffee snob because I wouldn't go to certain places because the coffee was bad. Or I would critique their grind settings and such. So, yeah, I also am extremely excited about the pure potential for making an impact in the space because I love quality coffee. And I recognize that there is a threshold at which the quality seems to drop off at scale.

Cole Worley [00:50:33]:
And it's a whole another animal to be able to supply a consistent quality product across an entire, continent or let alone globally. So, yeah, I I think that's an impressive feat regardless, but at the expense of quality, unfortunately. So, if you focus on quality and you realize that, wow, if you just focus on smaller quantities of coffee at a time in the roasting and the purchasing, and then also in the making of your individual coffee drink, you are actually going to have a phenomenal experience with coffee, and people are enjoying that. And I just want to make sure that that doesn't die because small independent coffee shops, they, you know, they're really good about delivering a quality coffee experience and really good about keeping a local community of coffee drinkers happy and life happens in these coffee shops. So how can I make sure that and do my part to make sure that this local community in life in a world that is super connected yet disconnected through technology? How can we actually just show up and enjoy something together? And, obviously when I heard this whole concept from Alexandra, I said, Oh, man, what kind of help do you need? How can I help you through this and through this office that I was working through? And now to be part of it and actually have the opportunity to really drive this impact. I'm excited about that potential of, all right, in my mind, I wanna save quality coffee. Quality coffee for me happens at a small local scale. That's just what I'd like to do.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:52:26]:
And I'm very relational too. So I'm like, I wanna create that community. I want people to I want people's lives to be changed in coffee shops, which they are. I mean, that's where you can have your first date to the person you marry. I mean, that's where you might finish your thesis for school. And these are all, by the way, stories we've heard from people. Right?

Cole Worley [00:52:42]:
Yeah. Real.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:52:43]:
So, I mean, there's just so much, so many memories that happened in your local coffee shop that, we just hope to, you know, be part of facilitating those connections.

Jeffrey Stern [00:52:54]:
They are really a magical place that seems to foster that kind of community in in a way that few other places do these days. As you reflect on the journey thus far, what have been the the biggest takeaways that that you've had? Learnings, lessons, things that have surprised you?

Cole Worley [00:53:19]:
Interestingly enough, like the business side of things, it's I don't think has had the, like to use your words, like this big surprise or whatnot. I think getting this whole thing to work is actually more of a personal thing for me. So, it's like, okay, well, how can I personally gear myself so that I can grow personally as the business grows and the needs of the business change? Because then I have to be a different person for the business because the business needs different attention and different skills. So, I am trying to make myself more malleable and to be ready and also to continue to grow. And I liked learning things. So, I'm a sucker for just reading anything that looks interesting to me. So, I'm excited to grow with this business and ride that journey if you will. I think that's been my challenge and it's not the the business side of things.

Cole Worley [00:54:24]:
I think those challenges are all addressable. And there's there's there's compromises to be made. There's there's relationships to maintain and and to to navigate. And but I look at all those as figureoutable. It's the personal side that, I think is the bigger challenge for me personally.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:54:43]:
Yeah. And for me, I would say, like, sometimes I think about, like, the market here. And as Cole mentioned earlier, like, the market is a it's a good one. You know? We're like, it's forgivable, and, people, they have that I guess, if they know you know, it's a local start up, so they have that home hometown of pride. I guess the the challenge sometimes I wonder is, how would we how would this concept succeed or grow, and what growth rate would it have in, you know, another major city, right? So I don't know if it's more of a challenge, but it's more just like thinking about like, this is a very particular market. It really is. Like, a lot of people, not everyone, there's a lot of boomerangs like me and Cole, but there's a lot of people that, you know, they're born here, they grew up here, they don't really leave much. Again, we had these conversations with someone last week, you know, just like, this is a very peculiar market.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:55:39]:
And so, I guess, yeah, like, a challenge would be just, I wonder how another major progressive city with people that are coming in and out from all over the world, I wonder how they would react to it. But, yeah, I mean, it's something that we have yet to like, that's in our future, obviously, to find out, and we're

Jeffrey Stern [00:55:57]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:55:58]:
We're very excited about that. It's just yeah. It's just like one of those things I wonder, you know?

Cole Worley [00:56:03]:
Yeah. If you ever, have repeat guests, call us back in, oh, sometime in the future and

Jeffrey Stern [00:56:09]:
see how

Cole Worley [00:56:09]:
our answers change.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:56:10]:
Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:56:12]:
I would love to. I'm Yeah. We'll have a season 2 of label and where we have everyone back on in a few years. See how it's gone.

Cole Worley [00:56:20]:
Yeah. Yeah. It might surprise some Clevelanders to know that Cleveland is actually the 3rd largest coffee market in the state of Ohio. Columbus has the largest coffee market, followed by Cincinnati. And those two markets aren't just a little bit bigger than Cleveland. Those two markets are actually quite a little bit bigger than our Cleveland area market. And, yeah, I'm talking about the Cleveland general area, not Cleveland proper, but the whole 2,000,000 The

Jeffrey Stern [00:56:49]:
whole of

Aleksandra Brankov [00:56:49]:
it. Area.

Jeffrey Stern [00:56:50]:
Yeah. Yeah. Wow. We can keep it on the the Cleveland note for for a sec here as we as we wrap up. Our closing question that that we have for everyone who comes on is for a hidden gem in Cleveland. So not necessarily your favorite thing, but could be, but but for something that other folks may not may not know about, coffee or or otherwise.

Cole Worley [00:57:15]:
So when I hear your question, I think, oh, man. So what's really special about Cleveland? And I love when visitors come here because most people who've never been to Cleveland really don't know what to expect. And, well, I know that Cleveland is a food town. And I know that as Clevelanders, we're proud of our food scene in a way. So, that's where my head goes when I think, okay, what's a hidden gem? Well, I wanna take a visitor to some place that doesn't exist anywhere else in the world. And that's something that is unique here. And one of those such places, and I love to visit myself, is the Happy Dog on the near west side. I love that place because where else can you put 50 different types of toppings on a hot dog and it tastes delicious, no matter which way you mash it up.

Jeffrey Stern [00:58:09]:
Yeah. I agree. Happy dog is great.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:58:11]:
I would say for me, I was just thinking. That's why I let Colgate go first. I wasn't sure yet, but

Jeffrey Stern [00:58:18]:
I ended up I I thought about it.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:58:19]:
And this was, like, this is a good one, I think. So I moved back to the states in 2016. I was kind of officially back in Cleveland, like, January 2017. And I remember so I started looking for jobs in the area, and I would actually go downtown and just, like, walk around downtown. And granted, like, I left in 2010. So, like, 2016 and 17, like, things were so different in the city. And so just walking around downtown, I was actually, like, walking around and, like, trying to, like, get into buildings and, like, knock on doors and, like, leave my resume because I'm bold like that. But as I was walking around, it's like my eyes were open to, like, all this beautiful architecture actually in the city.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:59:00]:
And some of that was actually covered, like, before I left Cleveland. Like, for instance, the I think it's called the Schofield Building. It's there on East 9th and Euclid. It's this beautiful brick red building, and I'm like, I never saw this building before in my life, and I grew up here. Well, it was because it was, like, covered, I think, in concrete, like, from the sixties.

Cole Worley [00:59:22]:
It was, quote, modernized in the 19 sixties with a facade. I know exactly what building I'm talking about. Yes.

Aleksandra Brankov [00:59:27]:
And it's beautiful, and I'm like, what hap you know, so it was that. And then you have, like, the Heinen's downtown that used to be used to be a bank, and, like, it's just it has this beautiful rotunda and architecture. And then if you go down East 9th, there's, like, the marble room restaurant for those that that know Cleveland. And it's it used to be, National Citibank headquarters, and it was actually, like it's actually the largest it was the largest US bank lobby. It's largest or 2nd largest US bank lobby. And now it is, like, the most gorgeous restaurant, I think, in Cleveland. It's just so it's just something you'd find in New York City, honestly, in in my opinion, with Cleveland prices too, which is cool. But anyway, so I think it's definitely just like the architecture is really, like, the hidden gem and there's a lot of art deco and, you know, I'm not like an architect.

Aleksandra Brankov [01:00:16]:
I've never, like, studied architecture in, like, such a deep way, but I have, like, a deep appreciation for history, culture, and architecture when you kinda put it all together. So I just love learning about, like, the history of Cleveland and, like, through the architecture and through all these buildings I was discovering as I was walking around downtown for, like, you know, a week or 2. So so, yeah, I think that is Cleveland's hidden gem.

Jeffrey Stern [01:00:36]:
Mhmm. I love that one. It it resonates a lot. That's the architecture is is amazing, when you walk around downtown. Well, Cole, Alexandra, I I really appreciate you you coming on today and for for sharing your your story and the work you're doing at Kaphelia. I think it's an amazing company, and I am very excited to follow along on your journeys.

Aleksandra Brankov [01:00:59]:
Thank you. And thanks for having us.

Jeffrey Stern [01:01:01]:
Yeah. My my pleasure.

Cole Worley [01:01:03]:
Yeah. For anyone who is curious, our website is bkafilia.com.

Jeffrey Stern [01:01:09]:
Amazing. That would be the best place for folks to reach out to you guys if they have anything they'd like to follow-up about.

Aleksandra Brankov [01:01:14]:
Absolutely. Sign up. Coffee shop owners, investors, anything, you name it, we're there.

Jeffrey Stern [01:01:21]:
Awesome. Well, thank you again.

Aleksandra Brankov [01:01:24]:
Thanks so much, Jeffrey.

Jeffrey Stern [01:01:26]:
That's all for this week. Thank you for listening. We'd love to hear your thoughts on today's show, so if you have any feedback, please send over an email to jeffrey@layoftheland.fm, or find us on Twitter at podlayoftheland or @sternjefe, j e f e. If you or someone you know would make a good guest for our show, please reach out as well and let us know. And if you enjoy the podcast, please subscribe and leave a review on iTunes or on your preferred podcast player. Your support goes a long way to help us spread the word and continue to bring the Cleveland founders and builders we love having on the show. We'll be back here next week at the same time to map more of the land