#148: Patrick Ghilani (MRI Software)

Patrick Ghilani (MRI Software) [00:00:00]:

That concept of connectivity is what helped evolve technology from, again, folks that were historically focused on spending money on just their building, and having them evolve it to guess what? Now we're dealing with the experience of the guests in our building. Now we're dealing with the security of our building, and so by taking multiple solutions and connecting them together, that is, I think, the biggest gift has that MRI has given PropTech, is this spirit of collaboration and connectivity.

Jeffrey Stern [00:00:37]:

Let's discover what people are building in the Greater Cleveland community. We are telling the stories of Northeast Ohio's entrepreneurs, builders, and those supporting them. Welcome to the Lay of the Land podcast where We are exploring what people are building in Cleveland and throughout Northeast Ohio. I am your host, Jeffrey Stern. And today, I had The real pleasure of speaking with Patrick Gallani, CEO of MRI Software. Founded in 1971 and based in Solon, Ohio, m r I software has been a leading provider of real estate software and has been a trailblazer in the prop tech industry for over 5 decades now. Serving more than 2,000,000 users worldwide covering over 20,000,000 units across 45,000 clients With over 4,200,000 leases in over 170 countries, providing solutions that transform the way communities live, work, and play. Pat has been with MRI Software since 2006 and has led the organization as CEO for over a decade now.

Jeffrey Stern [00:01:44]:

Previously holding positions as president, COO, and VP of Global Professional Services. With over 25 years of experience in the enterprise software world In over 10 years in commercial and multifamily real estate vertical prior, Pat and I discuss his path to MRI software, his approach to leadership, His perspective on PropTech as an industry overall, the strategic decision to build out a connected platform and ecosystem, Overcoming risk aversion, macro real estate trends, the future of MRI software, and so much more. For a company with such A rich history and strong presence here in Cleveland with thousands of employees. It was awesome to learn more about how MRI software has continued to innovate as a pioneer Of the real estate software industry for many decades now, and Pat's reflections on the journey thus far and the vision for the future. So please enjoy my conversation with Pat Gilani after a brief message from our sponsor. Lay of the Land is brought to you by Impact Architects and by 90. As we share the stories of entrepreneurs building incredible organizations in Cleveland and throughout Northeast Ohio, Impact Architects has helped hundreds of those leaders, many of whom we have heard from as guests on this very podcast realize their own visions and build these great organizations. I believe in Impact Architects and the people behind it so much that I have actually joined them personally in their mission to help leaders gain focus, align together, and thrive by doing what they love.

Jeffrey Stern [00:03:12]:

If you 2 are trying to build great, Impact Architects is offering to sit down with you for a free consultation or provide a free trial through 90, the software platform that helps teams build great companies. If you're interested in learning more about partnering with Impact Architects or by leveraging 90 to power are your own business? Please go to I a.layoftheland.fm. The link will also be in our show notes. Like I was mentioning just before we we hit record here, MRI software has such a a Strong presence in in Cleveland, and it's a a story that I've been excited to hear and learn about for for a while now. So so thank you, Pat, for For coming on and, sharing your story today.

Patrick Ghilani (MRI Software) [00:03:58]:

Absolutely. A pleasure, Jeffrey. Thanks for having me.

Jeffrey Stern [00:04:01]:

So to to kick us off, Can you share a little bit about your personal story? You know, if if you pull on the the thread that ties your career and and journey together, What in reflection have been the the key themes, the the key events that that you feel are important to how you got to where you are today? Sure,

Patrick Ghilani (MRI Software) [00:04:20]:

it's interesting. I wish I could sit here and tell you that when I was a child, I wanted to be a leader of a real estate software company. But, that that was not even, in a thought process at the times. In fact, I think I wanted to be a rock star. I was a drummer when I was a little kid, and I played the drums really all through college, and and I always thought, wouldn't that be great? But, in a little thing like college and having to make money and growing up in a family where my father was actually a CEO of a very large power, transform former company. So I guess ultimately deep down, I I knew that this this concept of the word business was something I wanted to do. Like many kids that grew up in the 70s and 80s, I was one of the 1st generation that started playing video games and, you know, handheld video games and so forth. So I was I was always from a child.

Patrick Ghilani (MRI Software) [00:05:18]:

I was a bit of a, I guess you'd call it a geek now. We didn't really use that word then. But I loved the concept of technology doing really, really cool things. And although I went to school for business and supply chain management. I always loved the concept of doing something creative with technology. So my path here to, MRI software, you know, for me it seems sensible, but for most, when I playing my path to CEO. They're like, that's really weird. I started right out of college in supply chain, and I was using inventory pro systems, and production scheduling, and I was literally working in a business doing a supply chain job.

Patrick Ghilani (MRI Software) [00:06:04]:

And I just loved being able to use the enterprise software system to do my job, and I got pretty darn good at it. And this was in the mid nineties, and that's when ERP, enterprise resource planning systems, became really really popular, and companies like SAP and Oracle really began to to grow and become forces. And I was out of the blue recruited to leave this manufacturing company where I was working in production control and go to Ernst and Young. And, at Ernst and Young, I learned how to implement large scale software systems and got to travel all over the world and love people, right? And so on any given day, I was you know, training a guy or gal down in the factory on how to use their computer, or I was you know, up in the ivory tower meeting the founder or the CEO of the company. Both roles that I probably had no business being in as a early professional with little experience, but really loved the concept of just helping people, and getting in there and working with people, touching the clients. So my career essentially evolved into using computer systems, managing people that implemented computer systems, and ultimately through working with some big companies, some small companies, I ended up at this company here in Cleveland, Ohio called MRI Software, and I didn't really know it then, but MRI had been around for over 40 years. We were founded in 1971 here in Cleveland, Ohio, and you know, the term real estate for me was the Caldwell banker sign out front of the house. It said for sale.

Patrick Ghilani (MRI Software) [00:07:55]:

Right? That was the extent of it. So, yeah, I mean, I I I I could certainly go on and on, but you know, I I'm in real estate software, not because I was a real estate expert, because I was really a person that loved being out in the field, loved I couldn't possibly do one role, one job, with 1 problem, all day, every day for 40 years. And so I think when I was doing consulting and then doing systems implementations, every day is literally a completely brand new day. And the good news with technology, as fun as it is, is there's lots of little problems along the way. So the firefighting, the iteration, the creativity. It just really wet my palate. And here I am today. I've been with MRI since 2006.

Patrick Ghilani (MRI Software) [00:08:46]:

I've been the MRI CEO since 2014, and I'm still having fun.

Jeffrey Stern [00:08:52]:

That's important. Yeah. So we'll we'll absolutely circle back to, you know, real estate technology to Talk about the the nature of, you know, what it what it is as an industry, the work you're actually doing. Knowing though that that MRI software has been around, You know, roughly 40 year years, you know, prior to your your presence at the company. Can you take us a little bit back in time in, you know, 1971? Here here we are. Sure. What what's going on in the world? What what is the founding, you know, impetus for for this whole company look like? Why and how did it come to come to be?

Patrick Ghilani (MRI Software) [00:09:26]:

So, you know, the first question I always get from people is, oh, hey, you so you work for a healthcare company, you know, magnetic resonance imaging, MRI, right? And and I'm like, no. MRI was management reports incorporated. And in 1971, no one really did what we did. We were a company that was essentially founded by a couple of brothers in the Goodman family, local Clevelanders, and they had family members and friends, you know, from their local synagogue and that were struggling with their ownership of buildings. Right? Some people owned commercial buildings, some people owned apartment buildings, and look back then there was computers, you know, primarily mainframe computers and and and and big paper driven, card driven systems. And the financials were really hard to consolidate. So what they did is they they literally had a white truck, and, you know, it was certainly no Cheech and Chong truck. They they would drive around in this thing, and they would pick up stacks of of papers from people who owned real estate.

Patrick Ghilani (MRI Software) [00:10:45]:

And these papers would be leasing documents, and billing statements, and invoices, and they'd collect all this paper, and then they'd go back to the office and they would create the management reports for the company. So let's say you owned, you know, a small building and there was 10 apartments in it, and you had all the files for your residence, and you had to bill your residence, and some paid this and some paid that, and you had expenditures for mowing the lawn and, you know, you had your your loan or or your mortgage, if you will, for the building and putting all that stuff together. And so management reports inc would manually gather all of this information, come back, and create the financial reporting. Ultimately, they said, hey, look. This is a pretty manual business. So they got these IBM, mainframe computers, and they created programs that helped them automate the process. So we like to think we were one of the first managed services offerings in existence, and over time, those systems then became personal computers, DOS systems. Remember the green screens with just the keyboard that would touch a mainframe computer, and then Windows, and then ultimately the web and mobile.

Patrick Ghilani (MRI Software) [00:12:08]:

And so for 52 years there's not a lot of companies out there that have the word software in their name that have been around for 52 years and still essentially do the same thing. Now the reality is we certainly do it in many different ways. We certainly do it a lot bigger and better and broader than we ever did back in 1971. But the idea of serving people who own, operate, or occupy large scale real estate with automated solutions to make their lives easier. I mean, that's that's been our mission for 52 years.

Jeffrey Stern [00:12:47]:

When when you think about, you know, that that history and ultimately the The legacy and brand that that you've inherited as as CEO of the organization. I I think you just mentioned there, you know, parts of it that you feel are are requisite and and that you want to pay homage to and upkeep over time. Where alternatively, If at all, have you shifted the vision and mission for, you know, what this company is gonna focus on going forward?

Patrick Ghilani (MRI Software) [00:13:13]:

Sure. So look, initially it was the core financial systems, right? Management reporting. Over the years we've involved into the facilities management, right? The work orders to maintain the buildings. We, you know, evolved into presence management. Who's in the building? Where are they? How do you communicate with them? We moved into the investment side of it. So looking at the building not just as an operating entity, but as an asset. Right? So you think about these, you know, large REITs, public REITs. You can invest in in real estate.

Patrick Ghilani (MRI Software) [00:13:53]:

REITs are real estate investment trusts. And when you invest in those companies, they're looking at real estate. It's, it's almost like every building, it's like a stock. And so you need software to manage that stock, manage that asset. So we got involved in that all investment side. We moved out of just, not out of, but we expanded further from just the pure commercial office buildings and multi family apartments to you know, public housing, affordable housing, student housing, senior living. We do homeowners associations and condominium associations. And so really the definition of real estate went from an apartment building and an office building to pretty much any piece of brick and mortar where people live, work, and play, and how do we help them manage everything inside of it and and outside of it.

Patrick Ghilani (MRI Software) [00:14:51]:

I always say, you know, we we are bridging the gap between the hearts and minds of the people in a community, and the bricks and mortar that make up the community. And so our software now touches that that whole piece.

Jeffrey Stern [00:15:06]:

So when when people hear real estate, you know, in the spirit of those those white trucks you you mentioned with rooms full of paper stacks, You know, I I do not imagine that innovation maybe is the first word that that comes to mind. But at the same time, my sense is that PropTech real estate technology has has kinda garnered a bit more, I don't know, institutional attention from both investors and from entrepreneurs over the last, You know, decade or so. Can you take us a bit through how you think about PropTech and the role of technology in real estate kinda writ large? Where is the industry today, and and what is MRI's software's role within it?

Patrick Ghilani (MRI Software) [00:15:43]:

Absolutely. So it's interesting, you know, I'm glad you used the word prop tech. I've been here for coming on 18 years, and probably for the first 9 of them. The word prop tech wasn't even a word. And and the reason is, you know, oddly enough, the real estate industry has, has been a relative laggard in technology compared to other industries. And the reason is, look, it's it's a good old boys and girls industry. Right? If you look, you know, you go back a 100 years, some of the wealthiest people on the planet were those folks that owned and built the real estate. And it was a small club.

Patrick Ghilani (MRI Software) [00:16:34]:

And that club was a pretty small circle that was not necessarily the most technology forward as it related to the systems that they use to run their business. They put their money in architecture, in the materials of the building. These were purists that looked at the bricks, and the blocks, and the mortar, as that that's what made the difference. Right? And so you then had, when technology was really beginning to boom, you had a rather, how do I say this politically correct? A more a more mature ownership group of an industry segment that wasn't as creatively aligned with technology as an enabler. So they they-

Jeffrey Stern [00:17:32]:

Am I politically correct?

Patrick Ghilani (MRI Software) [00:17:33]:

Right. So they they were they were less wanting to adopt it. Now like anything in business, business happens and at some point you grow to the point where there's just no way around it. You can't operate in 2023 or even 2013 or 2003 without some reasonable digital communication, digital computation, and so forth. So what's MRI's place in the game? We like to think of ourselves as the founder of of of of the space. We're not aware of of anyone that was doing what we were doing before us, and so therefore, it's a fact. I'm teasing. But we we believe that, you know, we were one of the the forefathers of what is now Proptech, and that we have been, one of the the main players on the planet that has seen its appropriate evolution.

Patrick Ghilani (MRI Software) [00:18:42]:

Now MRI specifically, and one of the things that I'm really proud about our our team now, and my time with the company, is that we really focused on this concept of we cannot possibly be everything to everyone. Right? And that, you know, to do something truly special in most industries, or in most things. You need some collaboration and combination of many things. So we've really focused on this concept of being a platform company. And again, we believe we were one of the first people to adopt the concepts of a platform solution versus just an application. And we were also one of the first that adopted this concept of today, we call it cloud. It was once primarily used as SAS, and then it was applications service provider before that. And before that it was just hosting.

Patrick Ghilani (MRI Software) [00:19:44]:

And Before that it was just we came around in a truck and picked it up, and we magically showed up the next day with the report. But either way, it was done somewhere else. Right? And so that evolution of how do you have people and technology do something for you, have it happen for you without you being involved, whether it's in the cloud or in the room next door, and then how do you have a solution that says, guess what? We are gonna talk with other products. We are going to when you walk into I was just in Boston last week. You walk into, you know, the Prudential Center in in downtown Boston. And you check into that building, and you're using an an MRI system to verify that you're supposed to be there, and you get a badge, and guess what? Your badge works the turnstile in the elevator, and all that communication between those systems, we certainly don't make elevators. We don't make elevator control systems. We don't make turn style control systems, but that concept of connectivity is what helped evolve technology from, again, folks that were historically focused on spending money on just their building, and having them evolve it to guess what? Now we're dealing with the experience of the guests in our building.

Patrick Ghilani (MRI Software) [00:21:04]:

Now we're dealing with the security of our building. And so by taking multiple solutions and connecting them together, that is, I think, the biggest gift has that MRI has given PropTech, is this spirit of collaboration and connectivity.

Jeffrey Stern [00:21:21]:

I have 2 follow-up questions to that kind of framing specifically. 1, The tactics of of how it is that you get all these, you know, historically, maybe even competitive organizations to wanna play nicely in the sandbox and, You know, open, you know, open up their own systems to integrate and and create this extensible, a platform for everyone. So We'll get there, but more from the the strategic lens first. I feel like changing behavior generally is just, like, one of the most difficult things you you can do. So so how is it that you think about how to overcome a heritage culture and this very risk averse mindset that that of Of the the owners and operators in this space who might, you know, adversely react to these innovative attempts That that might ultimately mean they they actually need to change behavior.

Patrick Ghilani (MRI Software) [00:22:14]:

Sure. Look, 2 things. 1st and foremost, any business person on the planet, when you start talking about the pocketbook, you have their ear. And so, you know, doing value driven solutions that aren't just, you know, fun to have, nice to have things, but that can actually save you money, that can actually get more productivity out of your team, that can actually make the building be less vacant. That can make the building have more amenities for the tenants and the residents. Those things really resonate with somebody that owns and operates real estate. And and especially when the dollars and cents start to to demonstrate a return to them. So I'd say 1st and foremost, it's it's pure dollar savings in the value of technology.

Patrick Ghilani (MRI Software) [00:23:09]:

And then and then number 2, which I alluded to a little bit earlier is, you know, the ability to serve your clients. Right? And so when you're in real estate, your clients are your residents, your tenants, your occupants, whatever you wanna call them. And so as the world began to demand more, these buildings, and I'll use that term loosely, needed to evolve in order to encourage people to want to be in them. Right? So what was a class a building 30 years ago is not a class a building today. Right? And so think about it. Would you go to a library today that just had books, and no internet, and no big tables to study on, and no Starbucks coffee, and no area where you could use your cell phone. You probably wouldn't even go to that place anymore. And so I think the evolution of the consumer demanding more services and amenities, actually drove what was traditionally a classic ownership group into doing what they need to do, and guess what? It's because of money.

Patrick Ghilani (MRI Software) [00:24:31]:

Right? It's it's it's it all boils down to supply and demand. You you've gotta cater to the people you're trying to cater to.

Jeffrey Stern [00:24:39]:

So I I I'm I'm with you. I I see it. You know, the this consortium of Embedded applications all tied together into a singular integrated experience where MRI Is powering this whole connected ecosystem is kind of like the, the package. How, how do you actually go about like creating this Extensible real estate platform.

Patrick Ghilani (MRI Software) [00:25:01]:

You know, is that isn't that the $1,000,000,000 question. Right? So how do you connect all these things? Look, for years you you you heard technology companies saying we have a seamless integration, or it's plug in it's plug and play. You just turn it on. And even in 2023, that in many things, that still seems a bit of a pipe dream, but it's always what people wanted. No one ever wanted to learn, I shouldn't say no one. There's plenty of people that that love and enjoy programming and so forth, but the average user of technology doesn't wanna have to program, doesn't wanna have to read a huge manual. They wanna just turn it on. You know, why do our smart smartphones make us so happy? Because everything, a lot of things we wanna write in it.

Patrick Ghilani (MRI Software) [00:25:54]:

You just turn it on. There's no book to read, and if you need another product, you can just search for it, download it, and it works. Even if it's not from Google or Apple, it works with them. But see enterprise software, that's evaded enterprise software. The consumer market got much better at it. Oh wait a minute. You mean I can take a cassette tape and put it in somebody else's player and it plays? Or I can take a digital file and play it on your computer? The consumer market was really fast to adapt that sharing. Businesses, to your point, were slower because well that's proprietary, and I'm afraid of my data, and I'm afraid of these things.

Patrick Ghilani (MRI Software) [00:26:42]:

So how do you do it? In the reality, it's very similar technologies that you see on the consumer side, but at a much larger scale. Today we take 2 products. We take those 2 products, and if we own both products but they're separate, we connect them to a unified platform. That platform has a sign on and authentication capability. That platform has a user interface and user experience framework so that the colors and navigation can be similar. The data might be in different databases. The functionality may be different in each one. How do they communicate? We have application protocol interfaces, right? That's APIs that communicate back and forth between the products.

Patrick Ghilani (MRI Software) [00:27:35]:

And then the thing that really makes the word connectivity real isn't that they look the same, or that they, you know, you can sign into them with the same log on. What really becomes powerful is when you don't know you're using 2 different applications, or you don't know you're using 3 or 4 different applications. And so that's the what we call the I call it unofication. Right? Where, you know, it's it's the the unification of data and not just big data, but smart data. What you need, where you need it, in the format and place you need it, shared with other information. It's not useful to someone who owns a building to just know that, you know, Jeffrey Stern is in apartment three a. They need to know that Jeffrey Stern's in apartment three a, but also in the financial systems, Jeffrey owes us $3,000 because he's behind in his rent. And also in the verification system that they did with Jeffrey, when they did the credit check, you know, they probably shouldn't have given him the apartment in the 1st place.

Patrick Ghilani (MRI Software) [00:28:51]:

And so to to to look at all of that combined information on 1 screen, so that the user cannot just absorb it, but make decisions on it. That's powerful. And and that's what we're doing. And then you look at the evolution now. So now you think about artificial intelligence, you think about robotic process automation, you think about, you know, what started in just a world where you just wanted a whole bunch of data, big data, and then you wanted just the right data, smart data. Then you wanted to just search and filter for what you wanted on a dashboard. Now we as consumers, we don't even wanna search. Just tell me what I'm supposed to do.

Patrick Ghilani (MRI Software) [00:29:35]:

Don't tell me that in the morning I have to look to see if mister Stern has paid his bill. Warn me if he paid it or he didn't pay it. Or go a step further. If mister Stern is evicted, you could automatically shut off his door with internet of things. So it's this amazing connected world. And it's, look, it's not easy. It is still to somewhat a utopian goal to think you can get multiple computer systems of different technologies, different code bases, different databases, different integration methodologies, and get them to talk perfectly to each other. It would be like you and someone from Germany that can't speak the same language, trying to talk to each other perfectly, how would you do it? It's it's not easy.

Jeffrey Stern [00:30:30]:

Well, one of the the strategic levers that I believe you get to pull And, and think very intentionally about as an inquisitory company, when you think about this, Unification is, is acquisition and, you know, actually Assuming ownership and, and, you know, to, to the, the, the playing nice in the, in the sandbox analogy, like, you know, A bit of parental force.

Patrick Ghilani (MRI Software) [00:30:55]:

Yes. For sure. Yeah. No doubt. And and look, you know, there's there's a bit of a method to our madness. In addition to the fact that, look, 1st and foremost, our clients, our amazing clients, are the ones that demanded to have very unique personalised systems, but they also want them to be easy, standardized, less costly, scalable. And that's like asking for high quality and cheap. It's hard to do.

Patrick Ghilani (MRI Software) [00:31:29]:

Right? It's it's it's very hard to do. So the driver was the need and desire in the market. To connect to those things then allowed us to be an acquisitive business. And so, you know, over the last fourteen over the last 13 years or so, we've acquired almost 50 different entities. But we are not a house of brands. We are a branded house, and we don't we don't look at the different applications as stand alone exhibits. We look at them as members of, you know, I'm a man of many stupid analogies, but I always say it's like a zoo. Right? You go into a zoo, and the zoo has a look and feeling the zoo has a feel, and it has an attitude, and a and and and the the whole quality and culture of the zoo is one thing, but every exhibit can be a little bit unique.

Patrick Ghilani (MRI Software) [00:32:30]:

But there's similarities in each exhibit that allow it to be on one perfect map. To give you a beautiful experience, and end in an ice cream cone and a balloon at the end of the day. And and that's essentially what has been our growth paradigm, is to bring in, you know, technologies, that we acquire, technologies that we build, and then a massive network, hundreds of companies of of technologies that we partner with. And and essentially, put your arms around them and say, listen, whether we're friends, whether we're enemies, or whether we're frenemies, we are going to find a way to have this community talk together. And and that has literally been the the claim to fame of our growth over the last decade, and why a company that is 50 plus years old is having some of its greatest growth right now. It's it's very rare. Right? You know, behind me, you know, you can see some of these Fortune, Inc 5,000 things and so forth. Very rare to find a company of of this tenure that finds growth in these stages of its life cycle.

Patrick Ghilani (MRI Software) [00:33:51]:

And the reason is we don't stay stagnant. Right? It is. If if we were still doing what we were doing in 1971, we would have been out of business in 1978. Right? It's just a fact. And so the adaption and adoption of new things is constant. And that's what, you know, we have 35100 pride members, and, you can see the lion behind me and, you and I can see each other, but, we we use the lion as our moniker because we we believe we're the leader of the jungle in the prop tech, and so we our associates are pride members. We're all pride members, and we believe we have an ecosystem that we have a role in. And we're not the biggest, and we're not the fastest, and we're not the greatest animal in the jungle, but we have a role in it.

Patrick Ghilani (MRI Software) [00:34:40]:

And and and that's what's made us who we are.

Jeffrey Stern [00:34:42]:

Yeah. I I I had wanted to ask About, you know, how you avoid resting on your laurels of the growth of of the company and the success that you've already had. But I I feel like you've captured the the essence of that already. So Yeah.

Patrick Ghilani (MRI Software) [00:34:57]:

Yeah. I I it's interesting, Jeffrey. You know, I I always tell, my teammates that I'm I'm a bit of a dreamer, but I feel like I'm paid to be the dreamer, and that that helps us aspire to believe that our best days are still ahead of us. Right? And so, again, using you can see the lions behind me. You might be able to also see the the space helmet. I always talk about this mission to Mars. Interesting today that India landed on, the other side of the moon, or the southern south pole of the moon. That that's that's kinda cool.

Patrick Ghilani (MRI Software) [00:35:34]:

But I love this concept back to when I was growing up. This concept of how do you do, like, things that you almost thought were impossible? And and to some extent you you have to almost declare the unreasonable to do something exceptional. And so that's why I I talk about space travel. I always tell my team. I said, look. In our life we've never seen humankind on the moon, on Mars. But we, most of us believe that that's gonna happen. It's never been done before.

Patrick Ghilani (MRI Software) [00:36:07]:

We've never seen it. But we have enough visual attributes of things that we believe it's possible. And that's what we're trying to do with this connected ecosystem of technology and prop tech.

Jeffrey Stern [00:36:21]:

Yeah. To to borrow your your space analogy, you know, one of the things that I know is pretty Part and parcel to to the space missions and and, you know, just the one that's top of mind for me is is James Webb. But, you know, like, in those in those undertakings, there's, like, hundreds of points singularly of failure. And so The the the way I'll ask this question, you know, if if if MRI software doesn't ultimately achieve the vision that you have in the future, You know, the this connected singular experience. What what do you feel like are those singular points of failure? What are what are the biggest risks and challenges that that you face as a business?

Patrick Ghilani (MRI Software) [00:37:02]:

Honestly, and I will say this, whether we were a platform centric business or just 1 little product, at the end of the day, my entire lifeline for this business is based on real humans with hearts and minds valuing what they do for them, what we do for them, and the biggest risk to our business is that we don't listen and understand what our clients need and want. I also think I have a role to show them things that they maybe don't know that they want yet, but that's just a small piece of it. Listening and understanding, we are servants of an industry. We are servants of other people's businesses. We will only ever be as good as how much we improve others. And so the biggest risk is that that doesn't occur. And so if we don't get to Mars in this perfect, analogy that that we're talking about, if along the way we're still improving people's lives, being able to thrive in the community, being able to take businesses that create jobs, and we've expanded the way we look at our own business. So much of our business now is in supporting social housing, and public housing solutions that help people qualify to get into rent controlled apartments.

Patrick Ghilani (MRI Software) [00:38:33]:

We actually make the software that helps do the qualification process for for HUD. And, you know, we're doing things that are hugely important for where people live, right? Where they put their head down on the pillow at night and that they're strong enough to get in the morning and and have a job somewhere. And, you know, at the end of the day, we make software, but we do believe fundamentally that we are touching people's lives and that community is only as good as the collaboration amongst it. And whether it's bricks and mortars, or bits and bytes, or hearts and minds. You know, our job is to find a way to solve for that. I know I used, maybe you read, I use this analogy quite a bit. I read a book once from Bill Gates, and he said something like, you know, the mission you give your business is so important to its future. And, you know, if companies like Union Pacific 50 years ago would have decided that they were in the transportation business versus the steel rails business, we'd be flying Air Union Pacific.

Patrick Ghilani (MRI Software) [00:39:47]:

Right? And so I look at MRI a little bit like that because I can't honestly tell you 10 years from now what technologies we're using, but I can tell you that we're gonna be helping people do what their problems are in real estate. I just don't know what they are yet.

Jeffrey Stern [00:40:06]:

Right. And to your to your point earlier, what and not even on the problem side, but even just people's preference. Is what used to be class a is no longer class a. In the spirit of of just somewhat being tethered to the Uncontrollable macro real estate environment, writ large. I did wanna ask, although I try and avoid, like, Timely questions in in favor of more evergreen stuff. But, you know, obviously, there's a bit of an ominous state to commercial At the moment where, you know, obviously, markets like Manhattan and and Silicon Valley experiencing record high vacancy and But but true here in in the middle market as well in Cleveland and Akron, there there's a a relative dearth of folks returning to the office. Sure. Well, after lockdowns have have ended and, I think a real challenge of finding new tenants as Old leases expire

Patrick Ghilani (MRI Software) [00:40:59]:

Sure.

Jeffrey Stern [00:40:59]:

All compounded by this financial environment of tightened credit and elevated rates, and it I don't know that it paints the most Particularly optimistic picture.

Patrick Ghilani (MRI Software) [00:41:08]:

No. Fair enough. And I'm I'm glad I'm glad you brought it up. Right? Because, you know, even my wife says, hey, Pat. What's gonna happen, right? She reads the Wall Street Journal every day, and every day there's some article on how real estate is in a very risky situation right now. So look, the fact is, there's a couple things going for real estate. Number 1, there is no 10 year period that this is my understanding. Right? This is not a fact.

Patrick Ghilani (MRI Software) [00:41:39]:

My understanding, and I've heard it so much that, again, I believe that it's pretty close to fact. There is rarely a 10 year period in the history of the world since real estate existed, that real estate didn't find a way to have growth. And the reason is that no matter what, these these souls that live in communities and live, work, and play in communities. They have to be somewhere. Right? And so the fact is is it it may not be oxygen or soil or sun, but these are major ingredients to literally the the stages of life, having these bricks and mortars on the planet. And the adaptation of real estate to mixed use. For instance, when's the last time you saw a building that was just one thing? Right? You look at, you know, we do business all over the world. You look at some of these big beautiful hours in London.

Patrick Ghilani (MRI Software) [00:42:47]:

I'm looking at some pictures over me here. Yeah. And the top of it might be the 10 floors is a hotel. The middle 50 floors is office. There's a huge 8 story mall, and there's 4 levels of world class apartments and condominiums, all in 1 building. Right there you have a diversified portfolio. You have industrial real estate, where once were warehouses of products for 1 company, now they're warehouses of products for distribution companies like Amazon. What about malls? What about, you know, the death of the mall? Malls are becoming repurposed community centers.

Patrick Ghilani (MRI Software) [00:43:32]:

They're being repurposed for healthcare. They're being repurposed for industrial storage for companies, again, like Amazon. So there's definitely the find a way mentality. Then the other thing that is still going well for real estate is that what you see in people occupancy is not often the state of the financial state of the building. So again, you could, if you look in New York City, you could say, jeez, there's less people working in that building Monday through Friday. That's a fact. Right? Hybrid working. But most of those tenants in those buildings are medium to large sized organizations that still pay for that space.

Patrick Ghilani (MRI Software) [00:44:17]:

And so the health of the real estate as an asset is actually stronger than the human the the visibility of humans in it. So there we like to say there's a there's an occupancy health, and then there's a financial health. What will the future be? Look, I think we're already seeing in a short time, the concept of living in a 100% remote world is likely not gonna happen. Right? I say likely, I hope I'm not on some blog 10 years from now, you know, with my sound being said. But, and again, it goes back to no matter how well we collaborate online, no matter how well we can do business remotely, and we make lots of products that help businesses work well remotely. There is a human collaboration in a creativeness and an adapt and adaptability of humans working together that I think is very, very, very far away from being gone. Now is that a wish? Maybe so. But, look, we're we're we're finding ways through it.

Patrick Ghilani (MRI Software) [00:45:28]:

The good news is the residential arena, multifamily, student housing, public housing, affordable housing, those markets have have been literally stronger than ever in history. Now why is that? People are staying. People are living all over the world now more than just in central cities. People are able to stay in their home and work across the the country. People wanting to do more in their homes. And and so the residential arena's very, very solid. So the the mixed usage is not only helping, the economy, but it it it also helps MRI software. Right? We are we are diversified in the clients we serve.

Jeffrey Stern [00:46:15]:

Yep. Well, I'll give you, space for for some some pardon words and any, you know, thing that you think is important to share about MRI or your story that we haven't yet, and, with that, our our traditional closing question as well, which is for, A hidden gem in Cleveland.

Patrick Ghilani (MRI Software) [00:46:31]:

Sure. Look, the the the the parting words I'll say on MRI software, 52 years, and we're just getting started. I I like to say, you know, we are as agile and creative an exciting as a startup, but I got 45,000 clients and a footprint around the world to show for it, which why, you know, we we think that the world is our oyster, and, I say the world and not just, you know, like I said, I I use Mars. I say the universe is our oyster, because I believe where humans go, will be where MRI software will find its way. Now most important, what is a gem in Cleveland. So look, Cleveland is a is a fabulous town, and it's a town that, you know, I I was not born and raised in Cleveland, but this is a great place to not only raise a family, but to live and thrive in in in many ways. For me, when I think of Cleveland, it's great places to eat. I could list off a 1000000 things.

Patrick Ghilani (MRI Software) [00:47:45]:

There is one specific place that I've been going to just north of Solon here. It's called Crew Uncorked, and it and it is really, really exceptional. And why I think it's exceptional is, you know, it's you get the, you know, the Hamptons ambiance and luxury, but you're right in the the warm, comfortable confines of of of the eastern suburbs of Cleveland. And so Yeah. I I I really enjoy that. But, there there's so many restaurants in this in this town that I enjoy. And I gotta tell you, I you know, some of my non Cleveland, friends, when I tell them Cleveland's becoming a foodie town, it really has. That's that's why I can't, keep the weight off.

Jeffrey Stern [00:48:34]:

Well, Pat, I I just wanna thank you again for for taking the time and, Coming on to to share your story.

Patrick Ghilani (MRI Software) [00:48:40]:

It's my pleasure, Jeffrey. I enjoyed this, and I I love your podcasts, and I listened to some of the previous folks, and, some of them even, you know, you've you've talked to technology companies and love the Cleveland connection, and we're here to stay. Cleveland is our home. Cleveland's where we started, and it all comes back to Cleveland. So

Jeffrey Stern [00:49:01]:

It it seems to. Yeah.

Patrick Ghilani (MRI Software) [00:49:03]:

Exactly. Alright, my friend. Thank you so much. Cheers. Cheers.

Jeffrey Stern [00:49:08]:

That's all for this week. Thank you for listening. We'd love to hear your us on today's show. So if you have any feedback, please send over an email to jeffrey@layoftheland.fm, or find us on Twitter at @podlayoftheland Land or @sternjefe, j e f e. If you or someone you know would make a good guest for our show, please reach out as well and let know. And if you enjoy the podcast, please subscribe and leave a review on iTunes or on your preferred podcast player. Your support goes a long way to help us Read the word and continue to bring the Cleveland founders and builders we love having on the show. We'll be back here next week at the same time to map more of the land.