#151: Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search)

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:00:00]:

The best honors, the best CEOs, you know, they'll bring people on if they're true, true a players obsessed with their mission even if they don't have a job for them. I think just kinda subscribing to that adage of always always looking, always thinking about building the best team. I mean, you want you wanna be the you wanna be the Bulls of the nineties. You you wanna be the Golden State Warriors or an NBA ref you wanna have the best team that give yourself a chance to to be successful.

Jeffrey Stern [00:00:24]:

Let's discover what people are building in the Greater Cleveland community. We are telling the stories of Northeast Ohio's entrepreneurs, builders, And those supporting them. Welcome to the Lay of the Land podcast where we are exploring what People are building in Cleveland and throughout Northeast Ohio. I am your host, Jeffrey Stern. And today, I had the real pleasure of speaking with Kaleb Dumont. Kaleb is the founder of Integrity PowerSearch here in Cleveland, a boutique search firm for technology companies all across the US and Canada. Since starting Integrity PowerSearch out of his parents' basement in 2012, Kaleb has drastically grown the firm, successfully executing over 2,000 retained Searches with client companies that have collectively created 100 of 1,000,000,000 of dollars in exits, many of whose stories we've actually shared here on Lay of the Land, Like Dallas Hoganson from Felix back on episode 86, AC Evans from Drips back on episode 39, And even all the way back to episode 10, telling RV shares stories. In addition, Integrity Power Search has worked with many other prominent organizations like Klarna, StockX, Duolingo, and over a 100 others, backed by many of the top tier funds and investors across the industry.

Jeffrey Stern [00:01:42]:

In our conversation today, we unpack Kaleb's journey building IPS, taking it from a garage start up to the full stack Search firm for high growth startups and technology companies that it has become today. And we cover recruiting, entrepreneurship, and all things talent. Kaleb has awesome perspective on these topics having worked with so many startups over their stages of growth and been a direct witness to the evolution of Cleveland, Northeast Ohio, Ohio, and the larger Midwest startup ecosystems over the last decade. So please enjoy my conversation with Kaleb Dumont after a brief message from our sponsor. Lay of the Land is brought to you by Impact Architects and by 90. As We share the stories of entrepreneurs building incredible organizations in Cleveland and throughout Northeast Ohio. Impact Architects has helped hundreds of those leaders, Many of whom we have heard from as guests on this very podcast realize their own visions and build these great organizations. I believe in Impact Architects and the people Behind it so much that I have actually joined them personally in their mission to help leaders gain focus, align together, and thrive by doing what they love.

Jeffrey Stern [00:02:49]:

If you 2 are trying to build great, Impact Architects is offering to sit down with you for a free consultation or provide a free trial through The software platform that helps teams build great companies. If you're interested in learning more about partnering with Impact Architects or by leveraging 90 to power your own business, Please go to ia.layoftheland.fm. The link will also be in our show notes. I'm glad we could finally, you know, make this happen. I I've had the the kind of privilege of of working With you along my own entrepreneurial journey here, I think across both startups that I've been a a part of. And Also kind of knowing that you've worked with a a large proportion of those startups that we've shared on Lay of the Land. And so it's just been, I think really cool to follow along on the evolution and growth of Integrity PowerSearch over the years as as you built it because I've kinda got to see how that's transpired.

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:03:53]:

Yeah. I'm excited to be here and excited to share the story of, IPS and how it all I don't know, began and excited to talk talent and where the market's at. It's definitely changed quite a bit in the last, call it, 6 to 18 months.

Jeffrey Stern [00:04:08]:

Yeah. Yeah. I am also excited to to dive into that. I think if you, you know, survey all the the founders, The the vast majority would cite this this trite but true thing that, you know, the the people are the most ingredient important ingredient for for their company. And I think this is squarely, you know, where you get to spend all your time thinking about. And as important as it is and as important as people attribute it to be, It is my sense that this world of people and talent is kind of like an esoteric arcane dark art When you actually get into it. And so it'll be fun to explore here. And I've been looking forward to to hearing all all your your thoughts on it.

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:04:51]:

Absolutely. I think you're you hit it spot on. I mean, the most important thing that a founder or CEO can do is build an incredible world class team. If you get those right, then you have a much better chance of being successful. So excited to chat and and dig in deep here.

Jeffrey Stern [00:05:07]:

Yeah. So so tell us a little bit about your journey to IPS. You know, how is it that you you came to Do you find yourself interested in in trying to to build something? And, you know, what what were the the the questions that that you were kind of asking yourself That that ultimately led to to what you've now built?

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:05:27]:

Yeah. Good question. So I'm from Cleveland, Ohio, grew up in Brecksville, 20 minutes south of Cleveland. And growing up, I was a pretty competitive kid, was always into sports, was always into business, was the kid that was always selling something, whether that was Pogs or playing cards or lemonade stands, etcetera. And kind of growing up in Brexville, my parents, my mom was a Teacher, my dad was a a hotel director where he ran multiple hotels. But, essentially, like, we kinda lived in a neighborhood that was Mostly everyone in it was was quite affluent, and we were not. And so it felt like we were always kinda keeping up with the Joneses. And my parents kind of always thought about money growing up, and so I just, from a young age, just never wanted that to be me and be my life.

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:06:15]:

And so, I guess, I looked around the neighborhood and said, man, what do I wanna do with my life when I was like 10, 12, 14 years old? And I'm thinking, like, I'm either gonna be a doctor or a lawyer or a business owner just wanted to become financially independent as fast as possible. And so the origin of the company was I I in college, I did 5 different internships somewhere in they're mostly on finance, like forensic auditing, Wealth management, I did 1 equity research. And then I did 1, my high school basketball coach introduced me to, an executive search recruiter where I did a internship there over the summer and then during the school year too and kinda fell in love with the space and the business and Knew that I got really good at it quickly and knew that I could start a company in this, right when I graduated college. So that was 11 plus years ago now.

Jeffrey Stern [00:07:08]:

Wow. Did you have a a sense for, you know, between then and and and where IPS is today, you know, what it it might look like? And if not, like, how has it deviated? What what was your vision for for the company at at that point in time?

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:07:21]:

Well, to be honest, Like, I was a 22, 23 year old kid with basically no no experience starting anything before, any type of real business. And so And it was a vision at the at the very beginning was to move out of my parents' house and to try to become financially independent as fast as possible. And so, You know, my first, I'd say, 6 months to a year, I was working on a lot of tech recruiting for big companies. So clients like Nationwide Insurance, Big Lots, Safe Auto. And then I got my first Client in the startup world, this company called Dynamic, which actually just exited a couple of years ago to this, company called WillowTree. But they were a dev shop agency building products and software for big corporations, but their culture was a lot like the type of culture that I wanted to work for, like, highly energetic, really smart, really motivated people. And at that point, it was 2012. There wasn't a ton of startups in Ohio.

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:08:22]:

And so, you know, the start was, let's just become financially independent as possible. And then I started to find clients that kinda looked like the places that I wanted to work. And so I I was fortunate to be able to do that, like, really early on within my 1st 6 months of starting the company.

Jeffrey Stern [00:08:36]:

Yeah. And I feel like as a consequence of that, you you probably, You know, more than most have have really gotten to see how the the whole space here has evolved over the the last decade or so.

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:08:48]:

Yeah. It's been fascinating. I'd say, like, 10 years ago, there wasn't very many startups. I mean, Cleveland had a nascent community. Columbus had a nascent community. There were some lifestyle software companies here back then, but their the start up ecosystem for technology companies and venture backed company was was, was very small. And the big change obviously was when Drive Capital came to Ohio. And that was my big break at PS is I got hooked up with Robert Hata and Chris Olsen and Mark Kwame before they even made their 1st investment.

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:09:18]:

So I was very fortunate to get in with them very early and Learn from some of the best Silicon Valley's best, ex Sequoia guys on what do startups need to hire, what what kind of backgrounds do they have. You know, I was very fortunate to work super hard and impress those guys, and I've built a a pretty nice business off of those relationships.

Jeffrey Stern [00:09:38]:

Yeah. So you you you hone in to this Niche of startups, you find an alignment in the kind of culture that they have and embody. How is it that you, you know, took that culture, what what you said had resonated, and use that to to shape what IPS itself actually looks like?

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:09:57]:

I'd say for me, the culture of startups are they're all mission oriented. They're all folks that are highly motivated that They really care about solving interesting and hard problems, and they wanna make the world a more beautiful place. And I kinda I aligned myself to all of those things. And so It was really easy to subscribe to them. And most of our clients are energetic. They're highly motivated, and that's a lot like me. And so I was it was easy for me to kind of Get behind these companies' missions and and build a business around this kind of start up ecosystem.

Jeffrey Stern [00:10:31]:

So what what does IPS look like today? What's an overview of the company? How would you, you know, describe what the The organization is and looks like and and stands for.

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:10:42]:

So we're a 35 person executive search firm that Does, tech recruiting, go to market recruiting, and then I mentioned we do a lot of executive search work as well. We work with About 250 venture funds now and about 50 private equity funds across the US and Canada. And when they invest or buy companies, we come in and help build out the team. So what we're really great at is finding kind of those 0 to 1 entrepreneurial minded A player talent to help fuel these companies, and and we do searches across engineering, software engineering, electrical engineering, mechanical engineering. We do a lot Product management, searching, product design. And then we do a lot of ops, finance, sales, customer success, and marketing searches for our clients. The majority of the customers that we work with are startups, are companies that are trying to reinvent x, y, or z industry. And, you know, I started the company, we were exclusively in Columbus, then we grew to Cleveland, then we were in Cincinnati, and then we went Midwest based.

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:11:46]:

So we were doing work Chicago, Ann Arbor. But now we're doing work all over the US, Silicon Valley, Austin, New York, San Francisco. We do a ton of work in Toronto as well now and Vancouver. And so it's been fun to continue to expand and build my company over the years as well.

Jeffrey Stern [00:12:05]:

So there's like a 1000000 different topics here that I I wanna talk with you about with regards to to talent. It's one of the areas where I've spent most of, you know, my time, in my own career thinking about, you know, recruiting and building the best teams that you can. And so, There's just like a whole breadth of of, things we can talk about here. To maybe just set the stage at the highest level, What do you feel are the the biggest misconceptions people have about hiring, and and what do you wish More people understood about the this whole industry in the start up world.

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:12:40]:

I'd say the biggest misconceptions I see is so many people Hire for past experience and past skills that they've learned. I think those things are absolutely critical when you're hiring and you're trying to build the team. But I think the most important thing for hiring is getting the right core values and culture alignment. Like, so many people don't spend enough time on those behavioral culture and value questions that really matter the most. If you don't find people that are excited by your mission, that align to your values, it's most likely if they have the skills and the past experience, they're not gonna work out. And by the way, like, a lot of times, you know, we we get asked to hire, let's say, a VP of finance. A lot of times our clients say, hey. We want somebody with Experience being a VP of finance before.

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:13:28]:

But maybe another way to look at it is go after candidates that And we're director of finance or maybe they're a head of finance. They they have something to prove. So I think for us, it's not just about the skills and past experience. It's about the grit. It's about the Core value alignment. I just wish more people kind of obsessed over those things as much as we like to.

Jeffrey Stern [00:13:48]:

How do you feel Are the most effective ways to to vet that kind of alignment?

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:13:55]:

There's a lot of ways that you can do it. For me, the best way to do it is when you're designing and architecting the interview process, We'd like to have one of the stages have some type of work product, take home case study where the end result is a presentation that's collaborative where the stakeholders get to work with the candidate at hand to see how they Handle, questions to see how they handle pushback, to see how they handle adversity. And then I'd say the 2nd way to to to figure that out is to do references. It's a big part of our process at our firm is to do references on candidates and then hopefully do some additional references that those references give us Their experience working with the candidate, I think that's the best way to figure out if the person's a great core value culture alignment is to do, really thorough and thoughtful references. Mhmm.

Jeffrey Stern [00:14:50]:

Can you say more about how to effectively, you know, administer those reference checks? Again, one of those areas where I feel like it's, it's this, this dark art about what the, the really most effective ways are to go about Understanding how someone works through the the references that that they're putting out or or that they're not even.

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:15:12]:

Yeah. So there's this guy that we subscribe to when it comes to this. He's a pretty famous guy. I'm sure you heard of him. His name's Scott Cook. He's the founder of Intuit. And I think the way that he has done references over the years is just like Absolutely brilliant. Because when you're doing references, the edge is most people are just super kind, and they they whatever they say within the first, So let's say 5 to 10 minutes, we usually just throw that to the wayside, and then we like to really dig in and ask hard questions.

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:15:41]:

And then towards the end of the reference check, the key that we like to do is we always ask is, who are some other people on the team that's worked really closely with this person? And then we try to do those reference checks as well. So we try to do, like, 3 of the listed reference, and then we try to do 3 off listed references. And I think that's truly the key to get kind of a complete comprehensive picture of the candidate.

Jeffrey Stern [00:16:06]:

Are there particular questions that you find Elicit the most salient kind of responses from from people?

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:16:13]:

We have a whole list of them. One of the ones that I like to Ask is among all the people that you've seen in this position on a scale of 1 to 10, how would this person rank? And then if they answer 5, 6, 7, 8, you can't just ask why and really dig in. And what would a 10 look like, or what would a 9 look like in your opinion. So I think just trying to get a ranking scale and just trying to kind of ask, three-dimensional questions versus just questions like, what did you like about this person, or what was your experience, or I think, like, asking, more three-dimensional hard questions is is, is the key to doing these the right way.

Jeffrey Stern [00:16:53]:

So pulling on that idea that you introduced of, you know, perhaps hiring Those with more a chip on their shoulder, something to prove, versus those who maybe already have the experience, who actually might be, You know, you're earning for a different job at a at a different level, right, and and trying to balance that tension. If you layer on the the stage of the company, At different stages, what are the right things to be hiring for? I know generalizations are are kinda hard, but, you know, seed, pre seed, a, b, What are the the the kinds of people, that you see are are most effective at different stages of the the startup life cycle?

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:17:33]:

Yeah. This is, something that we obsess over and think a lot about because we we do a lot of early stage recruiting, pre seed, seed, series a, And then we do a lot of growth stage recruiting, and then we do a lot of private equity recruiting as well. And so the the profiles and DNA of people all excel differently at each stage. So We spend the most amount of time at the early stage. So what I'll say there is at the early stage, it's so important to get the first 10 hires right. Because those people end up getting the next a 100 hires. So if you hire a bunch of b players, b players always like to hire c players to make themselves look Good. But if you hire a players at the early stage, they obsess and only wanna work with other a players.

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:18:13]:

Jeff, I know you're an a player, and So you kinda, I would imagine, subscribe to this adage. But the things that we look for is at the early stage is The best people they care about working on hard and interesting problems. They care about working with really smart and intelligent people, And then they care a lot about the company's mission and what the company is solving. So if you if you can get that right, like, I would never hire an early stage employee unless they really genuinely care about my mission. And then in terms of, like, personality traits, I think, like, people that have Face some type of adversity in their lives. I think that is a big key for early stage hiring, somebody that's really adaptable because so many things change, at an early stage company. And I would say somebody that's just relentless, that's willing to do any job. I think a lot of times companies get this wrong.

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:19:04]:

They hire somebody way too senior at early stage. They need people that are, like, really hands on willing to do anything. And then the next thing I'd say is just startups are hard, so it's just positive optimism, Those types of attitude traits and and are just, I think, really important. And then as you go kind of to the curb of Of series a, series b growth stage companies, you're you're usually looking for more experts. You're usually looking for more narrowed positions where their lands are more clearly defined. And so I I think, like, process junkies or process animals are, really good at the later stages, And that's kind of a quick high level overview.

Jeffrey Stern [00:19:45]:

I I think it would be informative. Right. So, you know, over the the many years you've worked with, you know, hundreds of of these companies and and have made, you know, just Sheer quantity of of placements. What makes for the most successful hires over the long run? Knowing that, you know, a lot of the time, Over the course of someone's 1st year and change at a company, it likely doesn't work out. And so both, you know, what you've seen work really well and in the cases where you've placed Someone and perhaps it it hasn't worked out as well. You know, your learnings and takeaways from from really just observing How this plays out across so many different companies and so many different

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:20:29]:

people? So the ones that work out and the ones that don't work out, I think a big difference Between them is the companies that that put together and architect a really thoughtful interview process that's efficient, that doesn't have a 1,000 staffs, But it's comprehensive and has some type of work study, some type of case study, some type of presentation followed by references. I think if you can do those things right, Your chances of getting successful hire, ten x. Now I'd say the the the biggest failures that we've seen are companies that Just rush through the process. They are try the the role's been open for a long time, and they end up, like, short changing the interview process. And they they end up finding somebody that might have the previous requisite experience, but they don't have the right attitude. They don't have the right passion for your mission. They don't have the right values alignment. So I think designing and architecting the interview process and spending a lot of time ahead of time before you even start interviewing candidates, really kind of Talking through with all the stakeholders, what does the most ideal candidate look like? What does the purple unicorn with yellow hair look like? What did they accomplish in their previous roles? What type of companies did they work at before? What does that true a player look like for this search, for this role? And then making sure that you interview enough candidates, making sure that you talk to enough candidates to truly figure out what great looks like and And designing a thoughtful interview process that, I've kinda hit on several times here today.

Jeffrey Stern [00:22:01]:

For those where it hasn't worked out

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:22:04]:

I mean,

Jeffrey Stern [00:22:04]:

do you do you feel that 18 months in, if if that's the kind of mark where a new hire is gonna be gauged on a success or or failure basis, That you can really effectively, you know, in advance gauge whether or not a candidate is gonna work out?

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:22:21]:

Yeah. It's really tough. I mean, I'd say 18 months is a really long window to evaluate that. I think we advise most of our clients that they can easily figure this out within, like, 3 to 4 months whether or not, someone's gonna work out or not. And so we're we're we kinda subscribe to the adage of, higher higher slow and, fire fast, especially at early stage companies because every dollar and every minute and every second matter. And so I I think you can kinda sort that out earlier than than 18 months. But, again, I think the ones that that typically work out the best Are candidates that truly subscribe to your mission, they have the right incentives, they have the right compensation package, they have the right equity package, They have the right bonus plans. That box is checked, but the next box is like, do they enjoy the people that they work with? Are they interested by the problems that they get to solve? That's what the best talent look for in those things.

Jeffrey Stern [00:23:19]:

How often do you find that there is a Difference between from the candidate's perspective, what they say they want and what they reveal that they actually want in in practice When it comes to a lot of those those items you just mentioned from, you know, roles and responsibilities, title, pay, equity, overall compensation, What do employees, like, actually care about?

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:23:43]:

Well okay. So in my mind, like, a players care about different set of things than what b and c players care about. And so I don't wanna, like, overgeneralize. I'll spend a couple seconds talking about a players, then I'll go down the list. But a players, what they really care about are, 1st, the mission of the company. Is it something that they believe in? Do they do they believe in the the vision of the company? Do they believe in the market? Have they done all of their research? Have they asked a ton of hard questions? I think, like, that is first and foremost. The second thing that a players care the most about is working with a really Smart team that's also motivated and that also care about the mission and the problems at stake. And then the third thing is, I'd say most a players, they care about being compensated, you know, fairly for their work and and and designing a comp plan And that that incentivizes them to to crush it for you.

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:24:34]:

I think those 3 things are what a players care about. And then I think b players, you get a lot more questions around I'm I'm generalizing here, but I think b players, they they they kind of ask a lot of the wrong questions early on. You know, maybe they ask Like, you know, how many work hours do you work every week, or, you know, how many days do you get to work remotely, or Walk me through what what is what what does this job pay? You know, they're they're not asking the curious questions around the problems that are being solved or The threats to the business or the competitive landscape or so on and so forth, like, they're they're kind of asking the wrong questions. And so I'd say, like, for a players, we we listen really carefully to the questions that they're curious on. I think that shares a lot of insight into whether or not they're gonna, really perform for for your company or not.

Jeffrey Stern [00:25:25]:

And then when you think about the long term success of of people, I mean, so often and I I've seen this play out In, in my own companies and and certainly in in in those of of my friends who who are who are building, Like, the importance of getting the incentives right at at the beginning, as well, especially at the earliest stages and As these companies grow, what have you seen as kind of the the best thinking and practice around incentives?

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:25:57]:

It's different for each role. When you design a comp plan for a salesperson or a, chief marketing officer or a CFO or an engineer, The incentives look differently. But I would just say in general, I think, like, people want to be compensated equitably. They wanna be, they wanna have some type of upside, whether that's, you know, a bonus plan or whether that's some type of equity plan. I'd say, like, when it comes to when it comes to bonuses, I'd say like, you know, what we've seen that works the best is having 50% of the bonus be focused on The companies grow for their profitability or whatever key metrics matter the most. And then the other 50% based on the person's Actual individual performance, they actually have control over it. I think that that usually tends to work out really well. And then I'd say on the equity side, where a lot of companies Fall short is the plans are convoluted.

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:26:52]:

There's not a lot of transparency. And in general, I think If you can if you can be I think it's it'd be a huge competitive advantage to be a lot more transparent. There's a huge opportunity there to be Open, transparent, and forthright with your team. I think that you'll you'll win more in the long run. Your team will be more motivated in the long run if you if you do the equity side of that right.

Jeffrey Stern [00:27:17]:

From the the business of recruiting perspective, so thinking about, you know, I IPS here, I mean, one of the things that I think You you just I'm sure anecdotally come across a lot is, you know, people's as an employee, their Their perspective on, you know, the recruiting industry writ large, right, and and some of the, I think, pet peeves or or qualms that they might have with it, What's your philosophy on, you know, fostering long term relationships, building trust, both with the companies, but but also with With prospective candidates.

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:27:55]:

Yeah. That's a great question. I think so being a, a third party kind of executive search firm, tech recruiting firm, I think building relationships is the foundation of of what we do. It's it's a big part of our values. It's a big part of the things that we obsess over and care about. The The thing that we look for when we hire people is is people that are obsessed about building relationships. That that's our whole job is building relationships internally at our firm with all the stakeholders internally. But but also just as importantly, building trust and relationships with candidates and with our clients.

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:28:27]:

It's it's really the foundation of what we do. If you think about it, like, when somebody makes a job change or a career change or leaves their job and moves to another job, It's the most usually the most important decision that they make in their life outside of, like, maybe who they marry and, you know, what house they buy Or where they go to college, like, changing jobs is a huge is a huge deal. And so we don't we don't take that lightly. And so you kinda hit it on its head, like, Building trust is kinda foundational to all the work that we do internally and externally with clients and candidates.

Jeffrey Stern [00:28:59]:

And from the Company side, you know, in a lot of ways, recruiting and talent placement, if you take it to the extreme, and kind of think about staffing generally, Where on the spectrum of where you could place a person from full time to part time to, like, truly just for a a literal gig, On that spectrum, it it kind of you you can almost think about talent as, like, a a race to the bottom just from, like, a business perspective. And from that point of view, it's difficult, I think, to think about differentiation and, You know, how it is that that, you know, talent agencies and recruiting firms outside of the relationships they're building with candidates and that trust that you mentioned can, You know, really differentiate from the the company's perspective. So how has that played out for for you, at IPS. And, you know, obviously, you've you've been able to carve out a brand and a niche and a reputation for yourself that, has allowed for you to to grow in this way. What what have been the, you know, the the earned wisdom about what what it took to to do that and And how to maintain that trust over time.

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:30:14]:

You know, when I started the company in 2012, there was pretty much 0 tech recruiting, Executive search firms in the Midwest focused on recruiting for start ups. Now that that's changed. We have, like, dozens of competitors now in the Midwest and dozens more on the coast. And so, you know, if I'm a start up and I'm hiring, you have a lot of options for who you wanna potentially partner with and work with. I think For us, the the way to build trust with clients has always just been focused on results. It's always been results really matter. One of our values At IPS is that we are a product of our results, and we honor all of our commitments. And so to us, like, we're only as good as our last search, And we really obsess over delivering a slate of true a player candidates that we believe can be a force multiplier for, the business that we're partnering with and helping with.

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:31:04]:

And so we like to invest a ton of time upfront on every search that we start, understanding the business, their Core culture, their core values, what their growth plans are, what are the threats of the business, just so that we can really try to pattern match and really get the right Value match candidates to them to help them grow and and build a really great business. And so our business over years has pretty much grown organically, all through word-of-mouth, from from founder to founder referrals, from VC fund, PVE fund to client referrals from candidates that we used to work with that are now clients. I mean, our business has always just been relationship based and results Results matter has kind of really fueled all of that.

Jeffrey Stern [00:31:50]:

You mentioned the the the higher slow and and, And fire fast kind of approach, which is one that I I think, you know, broadly speaking, makes good sense. But I think it's always a little bit of a challenge because particularly for for any company, but particularly for for start ups, you're often dealing with this Very limited runway, limited longevity, compressed timeline where, you know, you can see the potential end of your business If you don't figure out the right things and unlock enough value to to survive. So how do you try and and balance that kind of mentality And, you know, waiting for the the perfect candidate balanced with the practical realities of that that a lot of start ups face where, You know, they might just need to to find someone good enough to to do the job.

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:32:43]:

Most of the times that we get called, You know, you needed to hire the candidate like 6 months ago or 3 months ago. And so that reality is is really real, and I definitely empathize with that reality. That said, I just think the companies that rush into hiring, they they will invest so much Time in onboarding, they'll invest so much time in getting them caught up to speed that you end up burning way more cash, way more time If you onboard a problem versus, you know, being patient and trying to find the the right person. And I think the best place to look for the that those types of Right people are, outside of using a search firm, I think, is within your network and within your employees' network. And so Instead of rushing in to finding finding anyone to do the job, I think it's just it's so crucial, especially at the early stage to finding the right people that are obsessed with your mission that will truly deliver the right results for you and and the company.

Jeffrey Stern [00:33:42]:

And this again is something that I I've experienced. Yeah. I I don't know if there's there's a way to to surmount this this hurdle. But but how do you get companies to think more proactively about Recruiting problems that they inevitably face at the future point in time. And I've seen this play out because one of those things is a future problem. And then, typically, there's always some current more painful acute problem that that will, you know, supersede the the the willingness, The capability to think about, you know, 6 months from now, some, some problem that we won't have solved because we haven't gotten a person in At that future point to help us deal with it now, it it becomes very difficult because there's always there's always some fire to put out. What's been your your way to, You know, promote this proactive philosophy about talent and just overall team building with the companies that you've worked with.

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:34:38]:

I think, ABR, always be recruiting. I think, like, be recruiting when you don't need to be recruiting. Always take those conversations. Always build a A bench of of a player candidates that, you know, you may want to bring on the team later. I think never turn down those conversations even if you don't have the role open now. I think The best founders, they know. The best CEOs, they know. They're only as good as their team and the people on it.

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:35:03]:

And it's I think the most important job that a founder as is getting the right people that are subscribed to their mission and values and company. And so I think ABR always be recruiting, always look for Looking out for those people even if you don't have a role open. The best founders, the best CEOs, you know, they'll bring people on if they're True, true a player is obsessed with their mission even if they don't have a job for them. I think just kinda subscribing to that adage of always always looking, always thinking about in building the best team. I mean, you want you wanna be the you wanna be the bulls of the nineties. You you wanna be the golden state warriors or an NBA reference. You wanna have the best It's a team that give yourself a chance to to be successful.

Jeffrey Stern [00:35:42]:

How do you think about that from your own company's perspective And and building out your own team and, you know, when you think about IPS 5, 10 years from now, How are you positioning the company today, you know, for that future? And, and, yeah, where do you ultimately wanna take the company?

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:36:01]:

We talk a lot about this and we give this advice to our clients and and we really obsess over it for ourselves internally too. We we just know How important it is. We're in a people service business. We're in a professional services company, just like any law firm or accounting firm. We're only as good as our team, and And we're only as good as the people within it. And so we're very kinda protective and thoughtful about who we let in. And we we really obsess over getting the right values alignment, people that really care about the the problems that we're solving. They they're passionate about startups, they're passionate about technology, and they're really passionate about building relationships, and they care about results, and that they They're optimistic.

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:36:43]:

And so, you know, we have 5 values of IPS. We have an interview process that's very thorough and detailed, but goes quickly as well. And then we're always recruiting. We're always look even when we're not hiring, we're always looking for top talent. And so I'm very fortunate to be surrounded by a bunch of a player candidates that, You know, demand that we only bring in other a player candidates to our company. It's been a lot of fun over the years. You know, I have a lot of folks that have been with me now, you know, 4, 5, 6. I think 7 years is the longest similar 2 people have been with me now.

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:37:16]:

But, you know, vision wise for the company, we're gonna continue to stay kind of a boutique search firm. You know, each year, we fill about 300 roles for different technology companies. And so I think we we do, have plans to continue to grow and and build the company. But the thing that gets us most excited about about working with start ups is Kind of the talent strategy, the talent advisory, kinda a lot of the stuff that we're talking about today. So just helping companies Really think through who to hire, what to hire, how to design their comp plans, what type of backgrounds. So that's the type of stuff that we are excited about. So I think Vision for us is continue to do what we're doing, but also maybe roll out additional services around the talent strategy side of things. And then As an aside, some of us like on our team like to invest in these companies as well that we work with, and so that's been, a lot of fun too.

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:38:12]:

Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:38:12]:

And I can imagine as you've seen the the potential for innovation, particularly here in the Midwest come into its own over the last few years, there there might be a lot More of that kind of opportunity for you to participate in the growth that you're contributing to. So that's pretty cool.

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:38:29]:

Yeah. It's been fun. I mean, we I I think I've done 16 total deals, to date investing in in different companies, whether We will just invest cash in or we'll exchange, recruiting services for equity and companies that we really believe in. And so it's been it's been a lot of fun, to do that as well and excited about the the small little portfolio that we're building here.

Jeffrey Stern [00:38:51]:

Yeah. Yeah. Not to, you know, project, But I I imagine having achieved a certain amount of of financial independence, that you originally had set out to achieve, How do you now think about what it is to be successful, both, you know, personally and and with regards to to the business overall? And what is ultimately, you know, the the impact That you're hoping to have in in retrospect.

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:39:14]:

So funny. It's such a great question. And I'll I'll be vulnerable here. I think, like, when I was a 22, 23 year old kid, I started this company, like, trying to trying to say to like, I I just wanted to be financially dependent because I thought it was gonna bring happiness to my life. I thought It would solve all my all all the issues that I had at home, like, when I was a kid. And I would just say, like, that is a fallacy. And so, like, I became financially independent, pretty early on when I started the company. And I would say what motivates me now is couple things.

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:39:46]:

One is seeing the people around me At IPS, build their lives, grow their families, create the type of vision in life that they wanna have and subscribe. That really excites me. And then I say the second thing that keeps me going on this is just the companies that we support, they are truly making the world a better place. They're truly innovative, they're truly trying to change X, Y, or Z industry. And we have a lot of clients in healthcare, we have a lot Clients in computer vision and AI, we've a lot of clients in robotics. And, I mean, we we just have so many stories and Missions and visions of

Jeffrey Stern [00:40:23]:

these companies that we get to support, and it's just it keeps it keeps the juices flowing for sure. When you think about, you know, the conventional wisdom in in team building and and recruiting, Is there pieces of it that you find yourself just adamantly in disagreement with about, you know, what is best practice? And I'm curious If you have any of those and and if, alternatively, if if you've changed your mind on on any of that prescribed, You know, wisdom and what and what caused that, if so?

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:40:59]:

So I think the biggest thing is, when I first started the company, you know, it was just all about Trying to find people that had done the job previously that were in the role right now that we could try to convince recruit away and get Get them excited about a new company's mission. I I just think, like, as as I mature and grow, I I just think But the most important thing is just getting folks that are truly, truly aligned to the culture, truly, truly aligned to the to the vision, Truly, true aligned to the mission. And then people that have a chip on their shoulder. Like, I I've really been subscribing to this the last 3 to 4 years is just finding people that I don't think this is talked about enough. Just finding people that have gone through some level of adversity in their life, I tend to tend to really work out well at startups. And I think that that is not talked about enough, and I think a lot of people, they just look for candidates that have done the job before, they're in the job now, so on and so forth. But I think so much more of it about is trying to find people that are motivated, that have something to prove, that have a chip on their shoulder, that are obsessed with their mission. I think I'm really much more in in the latter cap these days.

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:42:13]:

And then as you've

Jeffrey Stern [00:42:15]:

You know, both as an active participant and as an observer of all the kind of work buzzwords and themes that have come into play over the last 2 years from the the great resignation to this proliferation of remote work to hybrid to 4 day work weeks like of these What feel like fad concepts? What what do you feel has genuine staying power in terms of, like, How work is actually evolving and what matters to to people and to companies in in thinking about those things.

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:42:50]:

So, COVID forced us all to work remotely. It was a great experiment. I I think, like, for early stage companies, If I was investing in in 2 companies that were going after the exact same problem and one was in person altogether 5 days a week and one was remote or semi in person, I would undoubtedly invest in the team that's in person. I think before you have Kind of product market fit, but early stage companies, but there's still so much to figure out. I think being in person is absolutely critical and crucial. And I think the pendulum, is definitely swaying back to the employer side of the fence. It was such an employee driven market with The zero co 0% interest rate environment that we've been living in. And so that that pendulum has swung back.

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:43:40]:

And so for a company that it's at the early stages, I've seen more success seeing folks work in person. Now that ought to be said, you know, my firm has been remote now for for 7 years. And the reason why we were remote is very different. Like, we're not building product. We're not building technology. We have product market fit. And so I think, like, you know, for companies that are going through scale mode, there's a lot of advantages to, to finding talent, the best talent in different cities. And so I think like once you are in growth stage or once you have product market fit or in scale mode, I am a big believer in in trying to Find the best people regardless of location, but then obsessing over, like, getting them together, spending a lot of time in person.

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:44:26]:

There's a whole science to to doing the remote thing well. But in terms of like the the fads, I think this whole remote Versus in person, it's gonna that that pendulum's gonna keep swinging back and forth depending on what which market we're in. Is it an employer driven market or is it an employee driven market? So, you know, right now, it's it's definitely swung back to the employer side. And so we're seeing a lot more companies being built in person.

Jeffrey Stern [00:44:52]:

What what are the at this point in in the company's, you know, existence, What are the things that keep you up at night? Or what are the biggest challenges that that IPS faces?

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:45:04]:

I'd say the biggest thing that keeps me up at night is to be honest, Jeff, there isn't really anything. I've been so fortunate building this company and have had A ton of success. My team has had a ton of success. So I'd say overall, there's not a ton that keeps me up at night these days.

Jeffrey Stern [00:45:24]:

Them. That's pretty fantastic. I'm glad to hear that, man.

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:45:28]:

Yeah. My wife always says she can't believe how fast I fall asleep every night, and I am just fortunate in that way, I guess.

Jeffrey Stern [00:45:36]:

Yeah. Well, I I think, you know, both in terms of the talent and and macro, you know, world and and IPS specifically covered a a bit of ground here. Is there Something unsaid that that you think is is important as part of, you know, your journey, IPS' evolution over time or the, You know, just the the the market today.

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:46:01]:

I'd say this, I love your podcast. I love that you you're doing this. I think bringing all the stakeholders in Cleveland together on this platform is really important. I think, this podcast is kind of like now interwoven in into the community. And I would just just wanna thank you. I'm just grateful to be on the show and Grateful to to listen to all these awesome episodes. And so I think it's just been, I think it's been really, really good and something that's been missing out in Cleveland for a while.

Jeffrey Stern [00:46:35]:

Well, thank you, Kaleb. I I do appreciate that. In in much the way, you are interwoven in this community. I'll close out then with our traditional closing question, which is for a hidden gem For for something in the area that other folks may not know about, but they should.

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:46:55]:

I don't think it's hidden, but, we we love going on in the lake. So my wife and I were members of this, this boating community called the Freedom Boat Club. We love just, you know, spending time on the water, swimming in the lake, going down to the flats, coasting along our coastline. We have one of the largest lakes in the world, and, Yeah. We certainly take advantage of it. I'd say that and my wife, we I love to walk. We have a 2 year old 2 year old daughter, another baby on the way. And so we like to hang out in the Rocky River Reservation as well.

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:47:28]:

I think there's just like a bunch of really cool trails back there. It's nice to just kind of unplug and unwind on the like, or in one of our metro parks.

Jeffrey Stern [00:47:38]:

Yeah. There's a lot of beautiful spots over there. Well, Kaleb, I just wanna thank you again for coming on, for sharing more about Yourself and and your story and, and IPS and the market at large, it's a fascinating conversation.

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:47:52]:

Absolutely. Thanks again for having me.

Jeffrey Stern [00:47:54]:

Sure. If folks had anything that they wanted to follow-up with you about or learn more about IPS, what would be the the best way for them to do so?

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:48:02]:

LinkedIn, Or you can message me at Kaleb@integritypowersearch.com.

Jeffrey Stern [00:48:08]:

Perfect. That sounds great. Thank you again, Kaleb.

Kaleb Dumot (Integrity Power Search) [00:48:10]:

Alright. Thanks, Jeff.

Jeffrey Stern [00:48:13]:

That's all for this week. Thank you for listening. We'd love to hear your thoughts on today's show. So if you have any feedback, please send over an Mail to Jeffrey at lay of the land dot f m or find us on Twitter at pod lay of the land or at sternfa, j e f e. If you or someone you know would make Good guests for our show. Please reach out as well and let us know. And if you enjoy the podcast, please subscribe and leave a review on iTunes or on your preferred podcast player. Your support goes a long way to help us spread the word and continue to bring the Cleveland founders and builders we love having on the show.

Jeffrey Stern [00:48:46]:

We'll be back here next week at the same time to map more of The Land. The lay of the land podcast was developed in collaboration with the Up Company LLC. At the time of this recording, unless otherwise indicated, we do not own Equity or other financial interests in the company which appear on the show. All opinions expressed by podcast participants are solely their own and do not reflect the opinions of any entity which employs us. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a basis for investment decisions. Thank you for listening, and we'll talk to you next week.