#162: Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) — Killing Ordinary, Art & Business

(AI Generated)

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Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:00:00]:
I think my why back then was, like, you know, not to live a ordinary life and to, like, you know, try to do something different. I think my why now is more of of changing people's lives. Definitely, people in my inner team. You know what I mean? Like, I want us all to, to look back on this time and be financially set, be mentally stable, and all come out of this as as a team and really do other projects from this to make an impact on Cleveland and and on the world in general. And I think, you know, right now, that's my new goal is, like, how many people can I bring along with me on this journey and how many lives can I change? And I think that's, like, the new driver.

Jeffrey Stern [00:00:48]:
Let's discover what people are building in the Greater Cleveland community. We are telling the stories of Northeast Ohio's entrepreneurs, builders, and those supporting them. Welcome to the Lay of the Land podcast, where we are exploring what people are building in Cleveland and throughout Northeast Ohio. I am your host, Jeffrey Stern, and today I had the absolute pleasure of speaking with Andre Sisco, the manager for Machine Gun Kelly and XX Brands, brand strategist and investor, co owner of the 20 7 Club, the renowned coffee lounge and kitchen here in Cleveland, Ohio, and managing partner at Dead Logic, a marketing strategy and brand management firm. Andre is a serial entrepreneur with more than 10 years of entertainment, international logistics, and merchandising experience. Invested in wealth building through ownership and community, he is dedicated to creating businesses that disrupt, that educate, and that enhance opportunities, all while creating access and equity across a plethora of industries. This was such a genuinely fun conversation for me, getting to explore Dre's upbringing and ties to Cleveland, the intersection of art and of business, the history and evolution of his relationship with Machine Gun Kelly, starting a label, bringing Drake to Ohio for the first time, giving back to the community here in Cleveland, balance, luck, motivations, reinvention, fatherhood, and ultimately enjoying the journey along the way. So please enjoy my conversation with Andre Sisco after a brief message from our sponsors.

Jeffrey Stern [00:02:23]:
Lay of the Land is brought to you by Impact Architects and by 90. As we share the stories of entrepreneurs building incredible organizations in Cleveland and throughout Northeast Ohio, Impact Architects has helped hundreds of those leaders, many of whom we have heard from as guests on this very podcast, realize their own visions and build these great organizations. I believe in Impact Architects and the people behind it so much that I have actually joined them personally in their mission to help leaders gain focus, align together, and thrive by doing what they love. If you 2 are trying to build great, Impact Architects is offering to sit down with you for a free consultation with Impact Architects or by leveraging 90 to power your own business, please go to ia.layoftheland.fm. The link will also be in our show notes. So, Andre, welcome to the show.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:03:27]:
Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Jeffrey Stern [00:03:29]:
Absolutely. So I was thinking about where the the right place to start would be. And, you know, I have to just come back to to the origin story. You know, who is Andre Cisco? And, you know, obviously, from a a place of today in the present, you know, we can break down, I think, the whole plethora of things that that you are are working on from, you know, entertainment, logistics, entrepreneurship, working with and helping to manage the careers of, you know, real formidable artists, you know, very recently becoming a father. So I I think we can we can get to all those. But you started here in Cleveland, Ohio. And maybe, you know, without all of those branching pursuits on your mind. So I'd love to just hear about, you know, where you came from, what transpired over your time here to to put you on this path.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:04:17]:
Yeah. For sure. I was born and raised in Cleveland, Ohio. My mom is a telecommunications engineer at university hospitals, and my dad is a retired Cleveland police officer. Grew up on the east side, like, in the Harvard area. Went to, Catholic schools, Christian schools. They tried to keep me in private schools, which I appreciate now. But hung out with, you know, kids in the neighborhood, regular kid, riding bikes, etcetera, etcetera.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:04:55]:
They always wanted to pressure me to go to college because I never I don't know if pressure is the right word, but, you know, I never traditionally in my family, people didn't go to college, and there weren't many college graduates. So, you know, that was a goal that they have for me. So they worked really hard to, you know, put me on a path. I ended up graduating from, Trinity High School, Saint Garfield Heights. Went on to Bowling Green State University. Started my major in computer science thinking that I was, like, picking a major that was gonna, you know, make some money.

Jeffrey Stern [00:05:32]:
You

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:05:33]:
know? Ended up doing that for a semester and realizing that I really wasn't that good at it, and I didn't enjoy it, and kinda switched my path to marketing in business. And through joining of my fraternity and getting involved in student organizations, realized that I just had a knack for leadership in marketing and in business, like I said. And, that led to kinda starting my own business. We were doing the events. I would do, like I was on the event planning committee for the school. So we would plan, like, these huge concerts for the school, and they would give us budgets. We would manage the budget. So I learned a lot, you know, in terms of just, like, the logistics and execution of of concerts and just saw how much money they were making.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:06:26]:
And it was just going back to the school, and I'm like, wow. I could kinda do this by myself. And, got with a a couple of friends. We started a company. It was called Living Legends LLC.

Jeffrey Stern [00:06:38]:
Living Legends. Yeah.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:06:42]:
And started doing parties, but realized quickly that our friends would, would fight at our parties and and, and get them shut down. So I had I figured I was like, man, how can I make money if my friends are fighting and getting shut getting the party shut down before I can, you know, collect all of the the revenue? And

Jeffrey Stern [00:07:09]:
You're right. A fair question. I

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:07:11]:
do concerts. I have 3 months leading up to the concert to sell tickets and collect all my revenue, so they can't really ruin it even if there is a fight.

Jeffrey Stern [00:07:22]:
It's a receivables problem.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:07:25]:
So I got into doing concerts, and that kinda took me into, like, booking. I would book artists for shows, do the shows myself, execute them. And then from there, started to book Machine Gun Kelly to open up for artists that I would bring into town, booked his first 20 city tour. I had a job at the city of Cleveland at the taxation department. And I I love the people, but I hated the morale there.

Jeffrey Stern [00:07:58]:
Sure.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:07:59]:
Yeah. That we booked the 20 city tour for him. We got in a van. I quit my job, and I've been on this journey ever since.

Jeffrey Stern [00:08:08]:
Oh, amazing.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:08:09]:
Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:08:09]:
I think that that lays a a great foundation for for a lot of what we'll we'll talk about here today. And before we get to that all, I I wanted to to ground grounded in in something else, which I don't know, a motto or a mantra of sorts, but in this idea of killing ordinary. And how you kinda came, you know, and maybe it's it's from an, you know, an aversion maybe to that morale, but to cultivate that kind of aversion to average understanding what what excellence is and and holding yourself to, I don't know, that higher standard across everything that it is you're you're working on.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:08:44]:
Yeah. I mean, I think working at the city of Cleveland really helped me come up not come up with that because I didn't come up with that. I had a friend who used to do all of our art for our promotional, like, advertisements and stuff for shows that we would do. His name was Marcus in college, and he came up with the kill ordinary. And I just was like, man, I love that. I just never wanted to live a ordinary life. Like, I didn't wanna get a job as a, you know, a corporate job and just, you know, work out and you know what I mean? I wanted to kinda, you know, take a alternative path, and I learned that while I was in school. And, you know, through my experience of starting my own business and going through the trials and tribulations of that and, you know, losing a shit ton of money and, you know, crawling back, etcetera, etcetera.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:09:30]:
And, yeah, I think kill ordinary came from that, and I just always kept it, like, as a life mantra. Like, I always it was 2 of them. 1 was live to progress. I never wanted my yesterday to be better than my tomorrow and then and wanted to always keep progression as a theme in my life. And then also, kill ordinary was just, like, don't settle for ordinary. Always, you know, kinda custom curate the life that you want that's made for you. You know what I mean? And I think it's highly possible. And, I'm thankful for where I am today.

Jeffrey Stern [00:10:06]:
So when you think about where you are today, which, you know, for me from the outside, feels like in this place of creative management kind of at the intersection of of art and of culture and of business all at the same time. How would you describe, just at a high level, what it is that that you do?

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:10:26]:
I would say, you know, at the core, I'm just a entrepreneur. I mean, as a manager for Machine Gun Kelly, I always I always approach it from entrepreneurial standpoint where, you know, I think a lot of the journey of being an entrepreneur is rooted in honesty, patience, trust, and growth. You know what I mean? It's then the growth might and also timing. To me, timing is, like, one of the most important things. So, you know, like, I treat him, you know, and his businesses like they're my businesses, and then and then we partner on a lot of businesses. So, you know, I kinda bring in a lot of those early lessons and just lessons that I've learned, you know, over the years from, you know, doing shows. Okay. How do you do a show? First of all, you gotta have a what.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:11:18]:
What is it? What are you selling? Then you gotta know how to translate that message. So what's your what's your marketing? What's your hook? And then you execute the show. You get it, and you want it to be clean. So what's the creative around the show? What does it look like? What are people gonna talk about while they're at the show? What what's the experience that they're gonna have while at the show? And then, you know, obviously, the business, how much are we making? What's the deal? And then on the back end, you know, what what's the follow-up, the recap? How do we grow from here? And I treat I've always treated everything like that. You know what I mean? And that's that's these are lessons that I learned when I was, you know, 19 18, 19 years old, you know, doing shows for 4 figures. And now we do shows for, you know, 6, 7 figures. And it's like, okay. Same lessons apply, but I just try to get better and grow after everyone and, you know, learn, obviously, putting smarter people around me.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:12:14]:
I don't know if I got off track, but,

Jeffrey Stern [00:12:17]:
No. I don't you know, there is no track.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:12:20]:
That that's kinda, like, how I treat everything. I would just say I'm a entrepreneur and an investor, but, you know, I just I like doing working on projects with my friends. And a lot of times, those end up being brands or different businesses that end up growing and taking a life of their own. So, you know, I just I think that, you know, at the essence, I'm just a entrepreneur that was molded into a music manager and an investor because I also relate to entrepreneurs, and that's kinda like where the investment piece comes in. I haven't been investing as long, but, you know, over the last 3 or 4 years, I've really got into VC, started a phone with some friends of mine that are from Cleveland. And, you know, I really related to entrepreneurs and their stories, in team building, in leadership more than I did, you know, stock markets or other more traditional investments. So I would just say, you know, at at my core, I'm a entrepreneur and a and an investor.

Jeffrey Stern [00:13:29]:
Yeah. Yeah. I I appreciated your framing of, you know, thinking about art, music, and the work that you're doing on that from an entrepreneurial lens. And I I always find this intersection of art and business really interesting because in the way that I'm drawn to entrepreneurs all the time, I find myself also drawn to artists. And that's just generally, I think, because the most interesting people tend to be the most interested people. And artists and entrepreneurs, I think, have this kindred, you know, curiosity and passion and motivation for all the things that they're working on.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:14:03]:
Absolutely. Most vulnerable to people. Yeah. In terms of life, they do because they they they throw they put it all on on the line, and and it's up to the people or or society to judge their output a lot of times. So, like, that's why I love it. I'm like, alright. You know, it's a dice roll, so it's not boring.

Jeffrey Stern [00:14:24]:
It's certainly not boring. It's certainly not easy either. What is your approach to to this intersection between artistic expression and business? And, you know, obviously, from where you are today, you know, I I imagine and we can talk about some of these too, but you've kinda cracked it a bit. But, you know, when you were starting out, you know, when you're 18 instead of from the vantage point you have today, what were what was your approach to ensure that the creative ideas, you know, resonate with a with a broader audience?

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:14:54]:
I guess, I think I was always just trying stuff at that age. Like, I I knew culture. I knew I I was, you know, always hanging out and be you know, meeting new people. I definitely made it a focus of mine, and I think this came from, like, maybe my dad and growing up was to just hang with different pockets of people and different you know, expose myself to different things. So I was never, like, the kid that was just hanging with these kids. I hung with art kids. I hung with business kids. I hung hung with science kids.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:15:30]:
And, you know, I think from that, I really, like, learned how to be relatable to or just learn how to think in a way that was relatable to, you know, different groups of people. And, you know, the things that I will work on, I would try to, you know, create products whether it be shows early on. We used to do fashion shows that would just, like, you know, that would spark interest from people. You know what I mean? Or or that would be something that was on the cuff. I think a lot of the things that we did, when we were younger, we listened to the music, but we also listened to the audience that we had, and we knew, like, hey. The the kids are into these artists. Let's hurry up and get them, but and bring them to Ohio before anybody else can. And that, you know, that led us doing shows with, like, Big Sean earlier or Drake.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:16:26]:
I've I think I probably, you know, bought Drake to Ohio the first time that anyone did, you know, and really just helped us build our brand. In terms of the fashion shows, I knew just from, you know, being around urban audience or Hastings and urban, just a black audience that the kids were into fashion, and they were like, you know, it was kinda like a competition. So So we started doing fashion shows and we would kinda create this competition between different universities. So it would be Bowling Green versus Toledo and Ohio State versus Cincinnati. And I would go to these schools, you know, get a person to kinda oversee their team and they would do practices. They would rent out rooms at the university, and I use the competition to, like, hype up this event. And the event would, you know, leading up to the event in the event would happen every year, and we would sell 4 or 5000 tickets to kids, and they would travel from all over the state to a fashion show. And it was like, I don't know.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:17:31]:
It was like a hip hop fashion show. It was like the it was cool, though, for what we were doing. You know? Everybody it was like an event that all my friends look forward to. You know, we sold out. I think we sold out the state theater in Cleveland. We would do, like, this huge convention center in Toledo for a few years. So, like, just being aware of what was going on in culture and then finding, you know, products or events or experiences to, and tailoring them to that so that, you know, people would garner interest.

Jeffrey Stern [00:18:00]:
What did it take to, to get Drake to come to Ohio to perform for the first time? $10,000.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:18:10]:
He probably doesn't do anything for $15,000 anymore.

Jeffrey Stern [00:18:13]:
Yeah. Wow. What was kind of the the pitch and, you know, the vision beyond that?

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:18:18]:
I had a friend who worked in music. He worked at a label in LA. He had graduated from the same school as me, and he kinda connected the dots. And it it was early, Drake, so, you know, I don't think they were really getting that many offers. It it was, like, right right when I forget the name of So Far Gone mixtape was

Jeffrey Stern [00:18:41]:
Yeah.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:18:42]:
Was coming out. We just you know, timing is everything.

Jeffrey Stern [00:18:47]:
So let's, I think just to set a good foundation for this to layer on, you know, dead logic. And, you know, just tell us a little bit about what it is, how you thought about it, how it's grown over time, you know, it's, it's role in this this whole journey you've been on.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:19:04]:
Yeah. So Dead Logic really started as an idea that I had probably, like, 2013, 2014 to create a space in Cleveland. I was living in Cleveland. I was like, man, I really wanna create a space that is a resource for other people like me. So this was what I was planning. The space will have, you know, access to a photography it. It would be the plan was to have a, nonprofit element to it to bring in kids and teach them about creative industries, and that's how their logic started. I opened up a studio in 2015 or 16, 2015 in in Midtown Cleveland, 53rd in Hamilton, and finance everything myself.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:20:14]:
I was still working with MGK. I was still, you know, doing shows, doing tours. Me and him had, started a festival together. It's called EST Fest. So I was that was kinda, like, my main, you know, source of income. But on the side, I was, like, working on this spot, and it was, like, you know, it was, like, you know, just the idea that I had. And, it didn't really make a lot of money. I think it was kinda ahead of his time.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:20:41]:
It was before, like, coworking spaces and things like that. So I was trying to get people to kinda either come in and cowork or, you know, just use the space and rent it so that I can make some type of income. It didn't really take off. It but in that way, but it took off from a cultural standpoint because the events that we had in there, you know, we would do art shows. We would do I I created a nonprofit. It was called the Make Workshop. So I would get kids in there and have all kind of my friends, and teach them about creative industries. So it was really it was really awesome.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:21:20]:
I missed that spot. Unfortunately, the landlord wasn't as ecstatic about the space as we were, so he gave me some problems with it. I only had the space for for 2 years. But, you know, during that time, like, kinda the supplement income and the pay for the space, I would just take on marketing projects and and take on different clients. And that's kinda like how the gist of their logic as a consulting firm slash creative management firm exists to came about today. Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:21:57]:
I feel the experimentation from all the the work that you're doing I just as a theme.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:22:02]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I I I just, you know, ride the wave, I guess.

Jeffrey Stern [00:22:08]:
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Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:22:49]:
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Jeffrey Stern [00:22:50]:
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Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:24:07]:
I think for me and this is a transition that I had to that I'm still kinda going through, but really went through in the last 2 or 3 years was just transitioning and learning to look at things on a macro level and lead from a more macro level than being in the the woods. I mean, I call it the weeds, being in the weeds every day and, you know, really focusing on myself as a leader and creating teams and putting smarter people around me because I have so many projects that I was driving myself crazy, and I didn't really have the the trust to hand off or delegate things the right way. So, you know, I really had to be intentional about focusing in on being a leader and putting myself in that role because I was so used to always being hands on with every element of the business or every element of every project that I was on. And I think, you know, I've come a long way. I'm still a long way to go, but I think leadership is a skill set that can transfer and transition into any any business. So you can take that business and build a I mean, you can take that skill set and build a house. You can start a coffee shop. You can do a global tour.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:25:26]:
It's really, you know, the same set of guidelines, you know, around my team building and supporting your team, your vision and and things like that. And I think, like, I've learned to, to focus on my strengths and hire people and bring people in that are that are smarter than me and that and that complete my teams. And it is working.

Jeffrey Stern [00:25:54]:
Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, let's talk about, you know, some of the things that, that are working at this point. You know, as you get to experiment, you know, kinda double down on things that that are making the kind of progress that that you want them to make. What what are you most excited about at the moment? You know, what's in the what's in the pike?

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:26:12]:
I'm always excited about anything MGK. I think that, you know, he's a phenomenal artist. I think the way that he includes Cleveland and just his roots and everything that he does is not common and unmatched. I think that, you know, he has, you know, a lot of potential to grow even more. So I'm excited about just new music from him and how to attack it. Think that, you know, the last 2 years have been super successful with him going into a more punk rock direction, but I'm excited for the challenge to, you know, get people to see him as the multifaceted, multidimensional creator that he is. And, I think, you know, part of my job is to help translate that. Me and him together in our group, we're starting a we started another company.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:27:03]:
It's called Floor 13. It's a full creative production and media company, and we're also gonna sign artists. We're building out a facility in Los Angeles, that we'll work out of. We've already done a couple of projects, a tour documentary, and, working on some more ideas, but super excited for that. The 27 Club is a coffee brand that we started. We started it during COVID. It was really just an idea to bring some of our a piece of our travels from all of our tours that we've done back home. I think that, you know, we would we would travel around the world, and we would be drawn to these coffee shops where you could, you know, get a cocktail.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:27:48]:
You could obviously grab food, drink. You can work. You can, you know, hang out. It was just like a really, like, multifunctional place, you know, with a that with with a great experience that you just felt like you didn't have to leave. And those were, like, you know, for us being on the road, you either had a show in a venue or in a hotel, and it really was no in between. And, you know, these types of places serve as, like, good vibes for us as a group. You know what I mean? When we wanted to meet up or wanted to get work done outside of a hotel. And, we wanted to bring that to Cleveland, so we were like, oh, let's start let's do a coffee shop.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:28:27]:
So COVID happens. We're in the middle of doing it. It kinda stalls the project with with construction and getting permitting and stuff done through the city is is super challenging. And, we work through all of that, get the coffee shop done. It's a hit. People love it. Even during COVID, you know, they respond so well to the brand, to the merchandise that we, that we sell. We were like, man, this is, like, bigger than just a coffee shop.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:28:57]:
We really wanna turn it into a brand. So, you know, probably the last 18 months has really been focused on gearing it and transitioning it from a coffee shop to to a real global coffee brand. Starting our retail journey locally, we just launched in 40, stores with Dave's Market and Lucky's looking for, multiple locations. We're doing pop ups all over. We just did a pop up around the, the Browns game in Los Angeles against the Rams. But really just, you know, finding cool ways and building a a team around that brand to scale.

Jeffrey Stern [00:29:36]:
Yeah. No. It's awesome. I'm curious how you guys, you know, how you think about Cleveland and, you know, the opportunity, the history it's played in all your guys' lives, the impact ultimately that collectively you you would like to have in the city?

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:29:55]:
Cleveland is so important to me. Like, I live in Los Angeles now, and, you know, a lot of our businesses here, and and I think we're able to be more efficient on a work level here. So, you know, from that standpoint, you know, we love living in LA. But I think as a group, Cleveland will always be home for us. You know what I mean? Like, when we come home, it's we always say, it's just a different energy that we feel, you know, when we're all home and we get to hang out with friends that we grew up with, and we've been through so many things and have been able to, you know, walk this journey with us. So, like, the energy is different. It's like, you know, when somebody it's people who know you and then there's people who know you, know you. And the energy when you talk to those people is different because they've seen you at all different levels of your life.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:30:47]:
You know what I mean? So, like, for me, Cleveland was always important in, you know, part of my work and part of the things that I'm passionate about have to do with, you know, having an impact on Cleveland. Whether that's in the business sector or the philanthropic set sector or just from a cultural standpoint or experiential standpoint, I I thrive off creating things for Cleveland. And, it's a huge goal for us, and I think we we take it personally. So

Jeffrey Stern [00:31:21]:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's just, you know, there there are not too many figures in my time here in Cleveland that I think generate the sheer quantity of enthusiasm and love and appreciation, kind of attention and and spotlight in a in a positive way, you know, shined on on Cleveland.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:31:47]:
And we love LeBron and his team. You know? Like, I'm friends with some of those guys, and they're you know, they were kinda like a precursor to us, obviously, in the athletic way. But, I mean, you know, in the athletic field, but, like, you know, just what he was able to do in in building a organic team of his friends. Like, we've always, you know, looked up to them and and, you know, are always cheering fellow Northeastern Ohioans on.

Jeffrey Stern [00:32:16]:
What what have you learned about artists and and their struggle in their own journey?

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:32:24]:
I think personally, for me, one thing that I've I've learned is is just an approach. You know what I mean? Like, you have to understand that when somebody shares art or idea or something with you that they're being vulnerable and that this is something that's a piece of them. So, like, for example, like, if I hear a song for the first time, my media response is never to, like, shoot down an idea. Where I hear idea for the first time, I don't shoot shoot down an idea based on my first instinct. Sometimes I do if it's, like, incredibly, like, improbable idea or something like that. But I try to look at things, you know, from a more macro level where I'm like, oh, you know, song is good, but what if we, you know, tweak it like this? What if we took it like that? Or maybe ask questions around it to try to learn, you know, where where the, you know, the origin story of the art came from, and then maybe that would make me understand kind of the goal of it. Because I think, like, if you comment and give your opinion too fast before you really get a chance to understand and experience art no matter what the medium is. I feel like, you know, you could diminish someone's enthusiasm.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:33:56]:
You could, you know, speak too soon. So I just try to, like, speak very general at first and really try to understand where artist is coming from. And then, you know, rounds of creation and rounds of edits, you get more granular as you go along. And I think, like, you understand it. So you speaking from a place of love more so than, you know, feeling like is very critical. And I think, you know, that helps with an artist's comfortability with you as as a manager or whatever position you're in. I think that's something that people have to learn. Because so so often, I just see people, you know, blur out what comes to mind first.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:34:38]:
Oh, I don't like that. That's that's not hot. But it's like, you don't know his vision for that. This could be a demo. This could be, you know, the first round painting, whatever it is. But you need, you know, give a person a chance to kinda work through their process before you give them, you know, a absolute judgment on their art. And I think that helps with my relationship with clients that I work with because they it it builds a sense of trust. It builds understanding.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:35:07]:
It builds just a a creative rapport is what I call it so that, you know, they they they do trust me, and we can work through these things together. And then when I do give, you know, that one time where I'm like, I don't think it works. You know what I mean? Just because it's so far off or maybe it's in, you know, whatever whatever the reason, I think, you know, it's taken a lot more seriously than it would be if I if I didn't, you know, work through that process of of letting them work through their process, if that makes sense.

Jeffrey Stern [00:35:42]:
Yeah. I think it makes a lot of sense.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:35:45]:
It's like if you have an idea, like, oh, Dre, I wanna start a podcast. And I'm like, podcasting is oversaturated. Like, I just start giving you reasons why you you will never tell me another idea again. But who knew that your podcast you found a white space to interview entrepreneurs in Cleveland and nobody else was doing it. You know what I mean? And it would and and if I would let you work through that process, you would you you know, I would understand you more. And I think, like, you know, people don't let artists work through the process. And that's, you know, that's that's one big lesson that I've learned. Mhmm.

Jeffrey Stern [00:36:27]:
Right. And at the same time, you know, it's it's very easy to there's a million infinitely many things that can go wrong, you know, all the reasons that you won't succeed. And, you know, it's helpful to just, you know, instill a bit of optimism, especially, again, in this artist entrepreneurship parallel. It's about what can go right and, you know, the the vision that you have for the future and and how you make it happen.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:36:51]:
Absolutely. And a lot of times, like, your first idea like, you know, failing through that first idea is what leads you to where you wanna be or the exact, you know, space that you're that you're meant to be in. But you would never know if you didn't work through that process and end up at a place where you can, you know, recap and make a decision like, hey. This work. This didn't work. Let me lean more in this direction and, you know, leave this other piece that I thought was gonna work behind and and see how this goes. And I think that the evolution is, you know, is where you get success or whatever, you know, whatever you define as success.

Jeffrey Stern [00:37:36]:
For you personally, how have you cultivated that mentality of of overcoming adversity and failure to, you know, keep moving forward towards the goals you've set out, not wholly consumed by the the outcomes along the way.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:37:50]:
I just didn't have a plan b. For me, it was like, you know, I don't know, man. I just didn't have a plan b. I think I think, like, sports and and my parents really helped me, like, understand the value of hard work. And sports helped me understand resilience and bouncing back and using losses as motivation, and they gave me a competitive edge. And I think, like, that competitive edge drives me a lot. You know, I make up these things in my head a lot where I'm like, man, you know, people don't wanna see me do this or people think that I can't do this. Even though even if it doesn't exist and it it's like a driver for me that I'm like, oh, people think, you know, we can only do rock music or people think we can't sell out the Brown Stadium.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:38:45]:
You know what I mean? It's it's that Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:38:46]:
Yeah. Yeah. It's a chip on your shoulder. You you can you can prove them.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:38:50]:
And it comes from being in Cleveland too. Because, like, I don't know if you noticed. I don't think you're from Cleveland, but but, I mean, I know you're not from Cleveland originally. You're honorary Cleveland, but, you know, people call Cleveland a crab in a bucket city. You know what I mean? So, like, when I was coming up, you know, people would, you know, say things and hate on you and try to bring you down, and I was like, you know, it it kinda gives you that chip on your shoulder where you're like, okay. I gotta prove everybody wrong.

Jeffrey Stern [00:39:19]:
Yeah. Yeah. No. I I mean, I've I've certainly seen the it's it's across the board. Because what I find also I'm I'm working on, like, a a holistic thesis for it, but I I feel like the the flip side of the the coin to the the Midwestern, you know, humility and modesty that's really kind and genuine is, you know, at the same time, this this sort of, like, you know, self deprecation almost sometimes. Mhmm. And there's I hear it across, you know, many dozens of entrepreneurs in Cleveland. This just chip on the shoulder to prove not just that they can succeed, but that they can succeed in Cleveland, that it can be done here in the Midwest.

Jeffrey Stern [00:40:02]:
And I I love it. You know? I think it's great.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:40:05]:
Yeah. It's a gift and a curse. Mostly a gift, though. Mostly a gift. Because, like, you need that, man. You need something to keep you going. You know, life and just this journey is hard, especially, like, when you're just starting out. I tell young people that all the time.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:40:25]:
It's like, you gotta find a why. You know what I mean? What what's your why even if you gotta make shit up like I do?

Jeffrey Stern [00:40:37]:
Yeah. What would you say is your own why?

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:40:40]:
I think my back then was, like, you know, not to live a ordinary life and to, like, you know, try to do something different. I think my why now is more of of changing people's lives. Definitely, people in my inner team. You know what I mean? Like, I want us all to, to look back on this time and be financially set, be mentally stable, and all come out of this as as a team and really do other projects from this to make an impact on Cleveland and and on the world in general. And I think, you know, right now, that's my new goal is, like, how many people can I bring along with me on this journey, and how many lives can I change? And I think that's, like, the new driver.

Jeffrey Stern [00:41:27]:
And I imagine that's where you begin to layer in things like investing and Yep. You know? I mean, literally investing in in other people.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:41:36]:
Yep. Yep. Exactly. I know, like, you know, getting into investing was, like, me seeing deals and me seeing like, I always try to try to surround myself with smarter people. I got a great mentors that, you know, I owe a lot to and that have helped me tremendously throughout my journey. And I know and, you know, and it was something that was important to me to kinda pay it forward. And, you know, I would see them investing in companies and having exit events and, you know, and I was like, man, that's crazy. Like, that's how you kinda, you know, develop wealth is by, you know, going through these exit events, having equity in companies.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:42:15]:
And I'm like, I think I wanna do that. And, I just kinda dove in here first. Luckily, I have some good friends that, you know, were able to kinda outline a a path for me so I wasn't just running around like a chicken with my head cut off investing money. But, you know, we've been able to do some really cool deals. I've been able to add value to some some entrepreneurs and some companies and brands just through my network and, you know, my skill set. And I really enjoy it. I I enjoy you just you know, I relate to the driver of entrepreneur. I relate to not having a plan b.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:42:54]:
I relate to to just, like, that confidence that you have to dig out of yourself to complete and invest to lock in an investor when you only got, like, 2 months of funding left. I relate to that angst. You know what I mean? Like, it's, like, the best worst thing ever because, like, you're in this situation, but you gotta, like, dig it out of yourself to perform. And when I hear you can feel that energy on a Zoom call or in person wherever you are, like, it when that person is, like, passionate. And when you when you feel that passion, it's like, okay. I gotta I gotta roll with this one. I do I I definitely, like, look at other variables, you know, when when making investments, but a lot of the a lot of the, you know, the thing of it comes down for me to the team in the in the operator and, you know, how determined they are.

Jeffrey Stern [00:43:47]:
Yeah. I think because it even goes back to what we were talking about earlier where it's it's like, you know, at the onset, the the idea that you have most likely is not gonna be the idea, you know, that wins in the end. And so you have to be able to, as an operator, you know, figure it out Right. Along the way.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:44:03]:
Right. Pivot. Buzzword. Buzzword

Jeffrey Stern [00:44:08]:
Yeah.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:44:08]:
The last 2 years is pivot.

Jeffrey Stern [00:44:12]:
Yeah. Well, how have you thought about that? You know, I'd be curious, you know, both from the perspective of of entrepreneurship, but even, you know, with with the, I don't know, the the right words to describe it. But if if you call it a reinvention of sorts for Machine Gun Kelly in terms of, you know, genre shift and just brand and and thinking about what it is to to reorient in a in a new direction?

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:44:35]:
You know, in terms of just, like, him reinventing himself, that's that usually starts with him, man. He's really, really, like, ahead of his time in that way. And I just don't think a lot of artists have the self awareness to reengage. You know what I mean? Like, once you experience some level of success, you feel like you have to keep duplicating kinda what got you to that success and Yep. Lead the best in most the prolific artist take the risk and reinvent themselves. And he's always willing to do that. He's always willing to take risk. He's always you know what I mean? And that's I learned a lot of a lot of that element from myself from him.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:45:21]:
You know what I mean? And I and I you know, we had these conversations. Oh, I wanna you know, this is early in his career. I wanna start playing guitar with the band. And that really wasn't done by a rapper before. You know what I mean? This is, like rap. This is, like, 2013. We on war tour. He like, I wanna start doing a we on the Rick Ross tour.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:45:42]:
I wanna start, you know, playing guitar with the band. I wanna bring a band. I want Machine Gun Kelly to be known as a band. And then I want you know, obviously, I'm Machine Gun Kelly, but when we tour, we're a band and people know that I'm coming with a band, and my live show is crazy. And, you know, that was always his foresight, honestly, and his vision for it. And I you know? And it just you know? For me, it was always trust. You know? I, you know, add my 2¢ here and there, but, you know, I think, like, him reinventing himself was always, something that, he was he was already the other one. So, you know, kudos to him.

Jeffrey Stern [00:46:21]:
Kudos to him. Yeah.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:46:24]:
But for me, I mean, not like, it's important to reinvent yourself. You know what I mean? Or, you know, I just the live to progress mantra that I have is just is about being uncomfortable. I always wanna be uncomfortable. I always wanna I if I'm comfortable in a situation, then I'm not pushing myself hard enough. And I'm and I'm mindful of that now, and I'm always, like, pushing myself to this next level of uncomfortability because I know that that's where, you know, my next mission lies, my next accomplishment lies, my next, you know, whatever it is that that that guy has for me. So what

Jeffrey Stern [00:47:05]:
the, you know, the first time we were going to chat, you know, we had to reschedule for, I think, a truly miraculous reason, which was that you you know, a child was born and you became a father. Yeah. And you talk about, you know, being uncomfortable. I'd love to understand from your perspective as it's it's so nascent and recent. You know? How has your perspective changed?

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:47:25]:
This might be the most uncomfortable I've been because somebody's life is in my hands. It's crazy. Like, I I think as a man, you know, going through pregnancy with your partner, it's a little surreal because it's not happening kinda inside the confines of your body is more in her body. And you just trying to, you know, understand what's going on, but you seeing like this alien experience happen. It's like something is in our belly, like, pushing on the walls, like, trying to get out. And, like, that was, like, a challenge for me because, like, I was like, man, this is it's crazy, but, like, I don't, you know, I don't feel the things that she's feeling. Like, am I am I callous? Am I not, you know, am I not being understanding? And I just think it was just like a process that I had to go through. And I think towards the end, it became more real.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:48:19]:
And then when the baby, you know, came out, you hear the baby crying and all of that. Like, it's it's I don't know. It was, like, the most emotional moment that, you know, I've I've ever had with my wife, and it was it was something that I would never forget. And, you know, just being home the last few days, with the baby and, you know, learning that, you know, my life probably won't be the same again is is definitely, like, a little bit scary for me. You know what I mean? Because I'm like, how do we adjust? Because, like, me and my wife, I've always, like, lived the on the go lifestyle. She's a entrepreneur. I'm a entrepreneur. We both travel a lot.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:49:03]:
We both and now it's, like, this person that we gotta take care of and, you know, plan for and make sure, you know, he's healthy and take him to the doctor and all of the you know, and it's, you know, it's a transition. But I think it's fun. It's a fun challenge. I've never I've never enjoyed something so much that has caused me sleepless nights is what I would say.

Jeffrey Stern [00:49:32]:
Like, I That's beautiful.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:49:33]:
I enjoy not sleeping because of him. It's cool. So that would be my little my little take on that.

Jeffrey Stern [00:49:41]:
Yeah. It seemed like a perfect uncomfortable detour. So I appreciate you going there.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:49:46]:
Super uncomfortable. Super uncomfortable. But

Jeffrey Stern [00:49:49]:
Yeah. So I think we covered a a lot of ground here.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:49:52]:
Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:49:52]:
I could talk to you about a million things. But as we we kinda work to to bookend the the conversation here, I'd love to just ask if, you know, reflecting on your your whole journey, you know, it's probably impossible to, you know, pick the bits and pieces along the way that that you think have been most salient. But of anything that we haven't talked about that you think is is kinda most important to highlight as part of your journey, you know, what what might that be?

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:50:23]:
I would just say, like, you know, the me right now would just say patience. You know what I mean? Like, in giving yourself grace. Because I think, like, as creators and entrepreneurs, I think we're our biggest critics a lot of time. And I think, like, you can be with with the world we live in and anxiety and how people compare themselves to other people, it could be crippling to action. Your action is the way that you get to where you wanna go. And I think, like, you know, having patience with yourself and, you know, I don't necessarily, like, know if it works or whatever, but just, like, positive self talk, things like that. You know what I mean? Building tools into your into your process and knowing that, hey. I'm not always gonna wake up in the morning and feel like I can beat the resistance.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:51:23]:
And if I can't or if I feel like that, what tools and resources do I have? Is it a mantra? Is it a book that I go to? Is it a way to trip myself and tell tell myself that, hey, I'm gonna go to the gym and just do one push up and end up doing, you know, a whole workout? Like, what's your thing? What's your what's your systems that you create for yourself to help you get over the resistance? Because all artists, all entrepreneurs, anybody that wants to create some, they have to get over a level of fear, doubt, and resistance. And having patience and grace with yourself are tools to really, you know, get you through those trying times. I would say, like, you know, part of my journey and one thing that I've learned on my journey is just to be patient with my journey. And I, you know, everything is always gonna work out as long as as long as I put the work in and keep putting one foot in front of the other.

Jeffrey Stern [00:52:26]:
Wow. Well said. Yeah. Thanks. Awesome. Well, I'll ask you then our our traditional closing question, which is is fun and definitely curious to to get your your take on, which is for a hidden gem in Cleveland. You know, something that that other folks may not know about, but perhaps they should.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:52:46]:
27 club. No. I'm

Jeffrey Stern [00:52:48]:
I I

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:52:48]:
give you I give you another one. Is it is it food or whatever?

Jeffrey Stern [00:52:52]:
Anything. Experiential, you know, food, whatever whatever.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:52:55]:
From a food standpoint, and I like to get food late at night. And in Cleveland, there's not that many options. So it's this spot in 3 month called, lava room, and they serve food super late, and it's good food. It's healthy food. They switch up the menu. I think they still switch the menu up. I know the last time I did, I, went there. They revamped it and, like, changed, like, they painted the walls and stuff because it used to just be, like, dark and red lights.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:53:32]:
So it it looks like a little bit more, like, modernized. I actually prefer the hole in the wall look, but the food is great there. Mhmm. And there's a lot of room. And this is open light, and you can get the food. Like, that's my hidden gem in Cleveland. Amazing. Mhmm.

Jeffrey Stern [00:53:50]:
Well, Dre, I just wanna thank you again for coming on, sharing your story, more about the work you're doing. It's, it's very cool. Very cool to hear.

Andre Cisco (MGK's Manager, XX Brands, Dead Logic, 27 Club) [00:53:59]:
Thanks for having me, and it's nice to meet you, Jeffrey. Absolutely. Alright. Take it easy.

Jeffrey Stern [00:54:05]:
That's all for this week. Thank you for listening. We'd love to hear your thoughts on today's show. So if you have any feedback, please send over an email to jeffrey@layoftheland.fm, or find us on Twitter at podlayoftheland or @sternjefe, j e f e. If you or someone you know would make a good guest for our show, please reach out as well and let us know. And if you enjoy the podcast, please subscribe and leave a review on iTunes or on your preferred podcast player. Your support goes a long way to help us spread the word and continue to bring the Cleveland founders and builders we love having on the show. We'll be back here next week at the same time to map more of the land.