#165: Phil Londrico (JaTango) — Livestream Shopping — Fostering Intimacy & Connection in E-Commerce

-- AI-Generated Transcript --

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:00:00]:
Our goal with JaTango was to anybody or any business could sign up within minutes, go live, start selling products, and not cost them a penny to do that. And that's what we've accomplished. That's where we strive. You could be up and running in minutes, and, I think that can help a lot of it's helping a lot of people. It's changed lives. You know, I've seen people 3 years ago that started with us that were losing their business behind in rent and, today, they do over a1000000 a year with us and they, have just bought a 50,000 square foot warehouse, and their lives have changed because of live selling, the last couple years. You know? So it is a cool industry, and it's evolving, and people who get in now, I think, are gonna be a part of early adapters, and they're gonna really do well with it.

Jeffrey Stern [00:00:56]:
Let's discover what people are building in the greater Cleveland community. We are telling the stories of northeast Ohio's entrepreneurs, builders,

Jeffrey Stern [00:01:04]:
those supporting them. Welcome to the Lay of the Land podcast, where we are exploring what people are building in Cleveland and throughout Northeast Ohio. I am your host, Jeffrey Stern, and today, I had the real pleasure of speaking with Phil Londrico, the founder and CEO of Jatango, an interactive broadcasting and e commerce platform that gives individuals the power to host their own live shopping channel from anywhere. For many years now, we have seen e commerce grow, sparking an entire industry of new brands, new channels, and new technology stacks. Today, everything from a legacy department store to your local grocery store to a faraway fashion boutique is online and at your fingertips. But the actual experience of shopping has not changed very much at all. We still generally begin browsing with a specific item in mind, and it all feels pretty transactional. Traditional ecommerce platforms often fail to deliver that joy of discovery you feel when shopping in person.

Jeffrey Stern [00:02:05]:
This is what makes livestream shopping, which has already gone mainstream in China fueling over $150,000,000,000 in gross merchandise value, So fascinating. With that in mind, Juchengo, based here in Cleveland, is bringing that intimacy and connection to buying through their own immersive live shopping experience, taking the best of the analog television shopping by now experiences, and putting it into the hands of DIY sellers. Phil has long been a visionary growing up in his family business as one of the largest growers of Christmas trees in the United States, responsible for many millions in annual revenue, securing major national chains, including Walmart, Central Hardware, Tractor Supply, Handy Andy, and many more. As head of IT Development, he created, produced, and patented a mechanical product, which was extensively sold in national chain stores, including Walmart, Kmart, and AAA Travel Agency. In 2,006, Phil was one of the first to envision streaming entertainment overall, co founding Rockme TV of the 1st Internet Television Networks. This conversation was a ton of fun. Phil is full of energy and passion for bringing people together through commerce and breaking down the barriers between buyers and sellers. We cover what it's been like building on the frontier of technology, the importance of timing, lessons learned from his family business, the future of commerce, and a whole lot more.

Jeffrey Stern [00:03:30]:
So please enjoy my conversation with Phil Londrico, after a brief message from our sponsor. Lay of the Land is brought to you by Jumpstart, providing services and resources to fuel the growth of technology startups across Ohio. Jumpstart's experienced advisors offer personalized business services to help you overcome challenges and prepare to raise capital. With 1 on 1 advising, workshops, and accelerator programs, Jumpstart has helped thousands of entrepreneurs, many of whom we have heard from here on Lay of the Land, transition from early stage growth to venture readiness. Additionally, founders can tap into a network of resources in marketing, in software development, in finance, and in talent recruitment, all to drive their companies forward. To learn more about Jumpstart, please go to jump startinc.org/startups to get started today. Phil? Yes. Thank you so much for for coming on the podcast today.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:04:32]:
My pleasure, Jeff. My pleasure.

Jeffrey Stern [00:04:35]:
So we've been riffing a bit off the mic already, and, I think I'm very excited for for where this conversation will go. I was thinking about where to where the best place to start it might be, and I think it's always helpful to kinda go back to the beginning in in some ways. And so when you when you think about your career and all that has transpired before it when, you know, you were younger, what would you say are the kind of first inflection points that oriented you down this this entrepreneurial path?

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:05:06]:
My father. My father. He was, an entrepreneur. He was a a self made man, businessman. Started on the streets. When I was a little boy, I used to sell on the street corners with him flowers and and, you know, and my father was a hustler and and, you know, not in a bad way, just as what he did to survive to make money was, you know, we, we went to the street, he'd buy flowers at a greenhouse, and we'd go on the street corner and sell them for Mother's Day, you know, and that's how we survived. And, and he built up a big business. He, you know, from there became a builder in properties and and buildings and, but the beginning days taught me a lot.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:05:43]:
It taught me a lot of how to survive and how to a work ethic that's needed. My father used to get up at 3 in the morning. We'd be at the at the terminals at 4:4 o'clock in the morning trying to make the best deals so we could be out to someone by 8, 7:30, 8 o'clock. I gotta give a lot of props to dad as far as, the business part entrepreneurship.

Jeffrey Stern [00:06:04]:
Did did you always feel that was gonna be your your path as well?

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:06:09]:
Yeah. I think as a as a young man growing up, you know, it's what you do. It's it's what you know. And when that's when that's what you know, I guess you just assume that's what you're gonna go into, you know. So I think definitely. Definitely.

Jeffrey Stern [00:06:22]:
Right.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:06:22]:
So dad was a big influence on business entrepreneurship, and my mom was a bigger influence on, she was very analytical when it came to business and always about doing the right thing. And if somebody wasn't doing the right thing, my mom, you know, you gotta do the right thing. And she would fight tooth and nail to make sure that people are doing the right thing and doing it honestly. And so my mom kinda instilled that ethic in us.

Jeffrey Stern [00:06:50]:
And and, ultimately, how is it growing and being around the family business as I understand it, you know, one of the largest growers and suppliers of of Christmas trees Yeah. You know, around around the country. What what kind of influence, did that have on your thinking and and kind of lessons you've learned from, you know, observing that whole business?

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:07:08]:
You know, it started out small. It wasn't always, big at it as it is. It started out with, you know, selling on the street corner. We had a little tree lot.

Jeffrey Stern [00:07:17]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:07:17]:
You know, it just all starts there. And, you know, we wanted to expand. And my family, we were in we also sold pumpkins. So we were in a seasonal businesses. So we did the flowers, the Christmas trees. Every season, there was something for us to sell. And so I remember we wanted to get into pumpkins. We had a a connection with pumpkins for a chain store, and, the chain stores and we said, hey, the pumpkin the chain store wanted pumpkins from us, and we said, hey, no problem, we'll supply you with pumpkins, but we'd like to supply you guys with Christmas trees.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:07:51]:
And they said, no, no, no, we already have a supplier. You know, we already have our, one of the cousins of the owner of the store is already supplying, so, you know, I you'll never get that account. And so we said, okay. So we kept pursuing it, and luck would have it, that very same Christmas, the supplier did not come through and not deliver to, like, 35 stores in Cleveland. And so they called us, and by luck, we say, alright. So we hustled to come up with Christmas trees for 35 stores, and we did. And, that kinda snowballed us to getting into chain stores with Christmas trees. And, so we just kept pursuing it, but it was always it started out small, Just like, driving down the street and you see a little Christmas tree lot, that was us.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:08:32]:
Wow. That was us. It starts everything starts

Jeffrey Stern [00:08:34]:
That's that's amazing. Just ready to to seize seize that opportunity.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:08:39]:
Yeah. And then it's grown very well over the, you know, last you know, my father been in it for over 50 years. My grandfather was in the business, so a long time in that part of the industry. And that led us into technology As we got in the chain stores, that's where my passion of computers came in. I wanted to computerize. My my father was old school. Everything was written down on a on a notebook and Yeah. Yeah.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:09:04]:
My father had little sticky tabs all over his car. So when he got in his car, there was 45 yellow stickers all over his car. And his that was my dad's car, reminding him of all the things that he had to do. And so I used to, I was the one, like, dad, come on. We'll get a computer and we'll computerize this and we'll make automated, invoices. And slowly, after convincing them to spend a little bit of the money, he finally, agreed and we slowly got into, you know, technology and of computerizing his business and making us a little bit more mainstream. And so that kinda got me driving into the technology world where I'm at today.

Jeffrey Stern [00:09:42]:
Mhmm. Because I I was going to to ask if if there was a certain theme that that ties together the kinds of organizations that that you've built and are building, you know, from from Rockme TV and Jatango, which which we'll, you know, talk about, it seems that it may have deviated a bit from, you know, the seasonal offerings.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:10:01]:
Yeah. I think it all stems from that. It all stems from, you know, from one plant, if you will. You know? It comes up and it just grows from there and, you know, business has evolved. When you launch something, it it evolves. That kinda and as long as you're willing to adapt and change with the industry as it's evolving, your business is evolving, I think that's when you'll you'll always continue to excel and grow.

Jeffrey Stern [00:10:26]:
Ultimately grounded, though, in some, you know, unifying vision, you know, for for the the future, though.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:10:33]:
Absolutely.

Jeffrey Stern [00:10:34]:
So if if if I had to put it out there from afar, it seems like this vision you have for the future of what the buying experience should be, you know, something live, something real time, something intimate, something with connection. I'd love to understand how you came to be so interested in this buyer experience, as kind of a unifying theme for the the work that you've done across multiple companies. And, you know, what what what kind of inspired that, and and how would you lay out what that vision is and how it's evolved over time?

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:11:08]:
Well, I mean, today, I have Jatango. And Jatango is this platform that it's designed to give everybody the ability to start their own shopping channel. So just like QVC or the Home Shopping Network, a person who's got a business, a store, so many stores are losing foot traffic, and, they need a way to adapt to online, live selling is going through the roof right now. People who go live and hold up a product sell 10 times more than the person that just takes a picture of the product and puts it on their website. So it's just it's just a it's a very interactive, fast way of moving products. And that today, that company that I have and I love and I adore and I'm nurturing it to grow it stems from back in the day when I grew up. All stems from selling products. You know, we got into selling Christmas trees, got from there, we got into chain stores, and it was always, negotiating with different chain stores.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:12:08]:
Buyer and the seller is always negotiating pricing. And so we would always be trying to go high, they'd always be trying to go low, and there was always this, this dance of, buyers and sellers around, you know, trying to get the price right. And that's where the name Zetango stands from. It stands for just a tango. In my mind, it was a dance between buyers and sellers. And so but it all stems from the businesses we started, you know, like, everything came from that the ability to buy and sell. What from a little boy, we bought flowers and sold them. And so I knew there was money in that.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:12:44]:
I I did that for a living my whole life. I knew if I bought something for a dollar and I could sell it for 3 the same day, I'm making money. And so as I grew up, I remember thinking, alright. My goal today is I gotta make $50. So when I was a little boy, being barely able to even have my driver's license, my temps, I remember going to the food terminal on my own. I would buy potatoes as an example, £10 bags of potatoes. I buy them for 50¢. I buy pallets.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:13:11]:
I go around to all the local stores and sell them for a dollar 50, you know, and and be just 10¢ under the competition. But I'd make money. I'd sell it. My goal was to make 50 or a 100 books that day, and that's what I would do. So it was always around buying and selling, and and everything I ever did with buying and selling worked. So this kind of is just, like, an extension or an evolution of that. And instead of me doing all the buying and selling, I'm offering it to show other people how to do it now and how they could do it right from their living room or right from their business, right from their store. It doesn't matter if you're a small store or a boutique, or an individual, or if you're a giant department store and you have thousands of stores, this works for everybody.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:13:53]:
And that's why, it just makes sense. You know, it's just a growing industry and we see it growing, so that's where it came from.

Jeffrey Stern [00:14:01]:
As we we make our way to Jatango, I'd love if you could tell us a bit, take us on a detour, and explain the Rockme TV, you know, chapter of of the journey.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:14:14]:
Sure. Back in 2007, I think, I I went to New York City, not far from where you're at, and, went out there with my sister. She was involved in music. She was pursuing a music career, great singer. She's opened up for NSYNC, Wild Orchid, Fergie, Black Eyed Peas. Her name was or her real name is Nicole Marie. And, which back then, she went by this name, Cole Cole. Everybody called her Cole.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:14:42]:
We end up, she end up doing a lot of performances, and and I was into technology. So I said, wait a minute. Why can't we record all this stuff? And we'll make something like an MTV, but we'll do it online. You know? So we started creating what was called Rockme TV at the time, and we had a platform. And we thought if we just get a lot of viewers, we can make money with sponsors and advertisers. That was my mindset. You know, get all the viewers, we'll make money with sponsors and advertisers, and we'll build this great platform. And so we launch it and we have this technology where you can go live, we do live shows, live interviews, live performances, we have celebrity interviews, and we were killing it as far as viewership.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:15:25]:
50 states, 180 countries, 50,000,000 views, and this is back in 2006, 7, 8, 9. And where we struggled was because it's it was the Internet, it was still new, and it was that transition period between advertising in a magazine or putting your dollars on the Internet. Nobody wanted to put money, so we struggled to get a sponsorship and advertisers. And so even though we got very little, it cost us 10,000 a month to to pay the streaming bill. You know, today, streaming is free on on Facebook. Back then, it was 10,000 a month. So it was a different animal. So we we built this platform, got all the viewers, tons of celebrities that you could imagine, and we just couldn't make money with it until one day with Rockme TV, one of our hosts said, hey.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:16:18]:
Can we go live? We and we owned a bar in New York City. So they she goes, can we drag a couch out on the sidewalk? I mean, yeah, because we always did it because it made it exciting. People were walking by.

Jeffrey Stern [00:16:28]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:16:28]:
Yeah. Big camera out there. And so we had 3 beautiful girls sitting on a couch. We had a big camera tripod hooked up, and they're doing this talk. And all of a sudden, you know, guys and people started logging in from all over the country. This is 2,009 or 2010 maybe. And we're struggling now, struggling for 4 years to pay the bills. And all of a sudden, the girl goes live jokingly.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:16:52]:
A guy says, hey. Where are you? And they're like, oh, we're in front of the bar that the owner owns. They're like, hey. Can we buy you a drink? And so they come up to me and they said, Phil, some guy in, you know, Utah or something wants to buy these girls a drink or Alabama, wherever he was. I say, really? Oh, yes. On the phone. So I got on the phone and I told the guys, you know, it's New York City. It's, like, $17 a drink.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:17:11]:
He goes, yeah. Get them all 2 drinks

Jeffrey Stern [00:17:12]:
and put

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:17:12]:
it on my credit card. So I said, alright. So I swiped the credit card. I I run the numbers manually, and I probably broke a million laws. And, I'm just so in awe of them all over the phone. But it it was a moment that intrigued me. And then the girls jokingly 1 girl had a scarf or something on, and she she was, I'm gonna sell it for $20. Somebody wanted to buy it.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:17:35]:
So we we were selling things online, taking credit cards over the phone, and we did almost $800 in sales in 20 minutes.

Jeffrey Stern [00:17:45]:
Oh my god.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:17:46]:
I go, here I am struggling to get sponsors and advertisers, and I just picked up $800. That just changed that was the pivotal moment that changed everything. And that day, I bought the name Live Shopping TV, and I still own that name. I never used it. And, but that was the pivotal moment I that that says I'm gonna start a business, another live inter live business that's kinda like QVC or home shopping, but where everybody can sell. And we're gonna build something great like that, and, that was the moment. That was the moment that launched or that got me into where we're at today.

Jeffrey Stern [00:18:23]:
Wow. I mean, it it really is incredible. 2006, like, how early you were to the this idea. Right? Like, in retrospect, it's, like, obvious, but I don't know if it felt that way at the time.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:18:37]:
You know, it's so funny. Every time I start a business, I feel like I'm late. Even then, I felt like, oh my god. Somebody everybody is already doing this. Because no matter when you search an idea even when I searched live shopping back then, there was 10 companies starting it. Nobody ever nobody ever caught on. Nobody ever did anything. I think it's all about timing.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:18:59]:
You know, it's about the atmosphere of the world you're in, and plus how you're doing it. Everything everything makes it's all about timing, I think. And even then, I I you know, 2,000 9 or 10 that we actually did the sales live, it was at that moment I said, okay. Because we ended up shutting down Rockaway TV. We ended up not making any money with it. It was just too hard to build a business on sponsors and advertisers. You can't build a business on that type of a business model. The business model has to make money and the sponsors and advertisers can be stuff you add on.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:19:32]:
That's that's icing on the cake, but that shouldn't be the business model I learned.

Jeffrey Stern [00:19:35]:
Right.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:19:36]:
And so I said, one day, we're gonna start this. I just gotta think about the right way to do it and timing. And it wasn't until several years ago that, my sister, Nicole, and my friend, Michael, my best friend, they kept pushing me. We gotta do something. We gotta start something. We gotta do this again. And I'm like, no. I don't wanna do it.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:19:54]:
I'm happy where I'm doing I'm doing I'm happy. I didn't wanna get back into the race of starting a company. And, but sure enough, you know, the it got the best of me. I, you know, I couldn't sleep at night. I want I was itching to do something too. And, so we end up, first thing we did, we spent almost, I don't know, a year to maybe 14, 16 months building a business plan, And I mean working on it every week. Every week, we put hours and hours aside because I knew from past experience, which I never believed when I was when I was younger, but now I swear by it. A business plan done right will give you a great business model and a great way to launch a company.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:20:35]:
And so now I swear by them. Sometimes it takes a year to build a a good business plan. And, and so I were we worked on it for over a year and then we went from there and and, you know, try to start the the journey that we're at today. So I never started with that business plan.

Jeffrey Stern [00:20:52]:
Yeah. That's I love the the evolution of, you know, how how it came to to be something that you could pursue. But, yeah, again, just kind of wild. Rockme TV was really kind of one of the earliest renditions of streaming. You

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:21:07]:
know? We had interviews That

Jeffrey Stern [00:21:09]:
is wild.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:21:10]:
Celebrities on there from, like I told you earlier, like Whoopi Goldberg, Susan Sarandon, Mary j Blige, Nicki Minaj, 3 3 different interviews. They're still on YouTube if you Google them. RockMe TV and Nicki Minaj, you'll see the interviews. So they're still up with millions of views. And, you know, a lot of lot of celebrities you could think of were on our show. We were blessed having the the celebrities come on the show, and we didn't have to pay anybody. It was a time where people wanted exposure back then. But making money with it was a whole different animal.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:21:41]:
That was where it got difficult.

Jeffrey Stern [00:21:43]:
Right. And it's it's all kind of in this evolution from kind of old school traditional celebrities coming to more like the influencer model that maybe didn't exist at that time exactly yet, but, yeah, it's fascinating.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:21:56]:
Yeah. And when we built Tatango, we decided we wanted to build it where, you know, we just got a small little percentage off the sale, so it didn't affect people. If they didn't sell anything, they didn't have to pay anything. You know? But I wanted to help the the the people that were getting started in this, and I wanted to also have something as advanced and as intricate as needed for big businesses to operate on a big scale. And, and something that they can do and and do well with it. So some of the things.

Jeffrey Stern [00:22:27]:
So having worked through the the business plan, you know, ideating on it for for a fair amount of time there, how do you actually get started? You know, what what is the what is the beginning, the initial initiative look like?

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:22:40]:
Well, with the business plan, you know, first thing I did was search for days trying to find all these different there's a business plan templates that everybody's got. They're gonna try and sell you for $300. You can fill out the the the details, and it spits out a business plan. And I said, I gotta approach this more traditional. So with me, we just found a good format that you could download for free, and it has all the, you know, the outline of the business plan. And, and I took a couple that I saw online that were award winning or that were good. I said, alright. Let me try to model it a little bit.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:23:13]:
But when you go through it, what I find interesting with the business plan, and this is for every entrepreneur listening, this is a real important one. If you go through a business plan properly and answer every single question about the product, about the marketing, how are you gonna get it out there, And you start diving into those questions and and to dive into them, you can't just be generic in the answer. You really gotta answer it in detail. And when you start diving into it, you start discovering the answer. Even though you thought you knew the answer, you end up really discovering the real answer. You're like, damn, that's how I gotta do this. And before you know it, when you're done with this business plan, you are 1000% more confident on how to launch this thing than you ever were in the beginning of it. So the business plan is such a crucial way of really building your business and the best way to start.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:24:06]:
I I I swear by them, and I never believed in them when I was younger. But as I got as we became successful, now I know that it's just a I wouldn't start a business without a great business plan. And when people come to me and they bring me a business plan, instantly, I know if it's generic. Instantly, I know if they put any time or effort into it. And when you know they did, it makes you, as an investor or another entrepreneur, look at them twice as hard. When you see the effort and they answer the questions right, you know they're gonna be a good investment for you. You know they're gonna watch things the way they did with that business plan. So a really interesting point of view, but I think, hopefully, somebody will get that one day.

Jeffrey Stern [00:24:50]:
Well, I'll ask then in retrospect from a place of having taken Tshango from this idea in your head and putting it down on paper in a business plan to an actual organization. How how far has it deviated from where you thought it would be originally when you put it down on paper?

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:25:08]:
It's gone a 100 miles. It's gone thousands of miles in distance as far as where it started from. And what's crazy is, as far as we've come, everything we've done with Shatango, no matter what level I'm at, I always see it's always seems fur you know, the more you get into it, the further you feel you are away sometimes. And so it just keeps you moving. And that's kind of the the the blessing of having a being an entrepreneur and being in business is, you know, the more you get into it, the more you build it, the more you discover, the more it evolves, the more you need to build it. It's like a whole thing until you get to the point where you think you're it's good enough where I wanna sell it now or, you know, you get to that point. And we're we're getting to that point, you know, where it's, we know the direction we wanna go and and, we're excited. I think I think, you know, the direction we're going is very, very exciting, not just for us as a company, but for the world.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:26:03]:
You know, the world's moving in a direction of going live, and today, it's in the infancy stage in the United States. But if you look at China or Alibaba, they've been doing it 7 years ahead of us, it's the fastest growing sector in all of ecommerce in China, surpassing almost depending on what article you read or what news network, somewhere in the $700,000,000,000 range in revenue per year and growing beyond that. It's just, it's Japan, all these other countries have adapted it earlier than US, but it's coming. And you're gonna see a time, where people are just, selling everywhere. That in China, you could walk into a department store and there's 35 people selling live with ring lights. Wow. Yeah. So it's just depending on where you're at.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:26:46]:
So the world, it's coming to it. You just we're still in the early days.

Jeffrey Stern [00:26:50]:
What what does Zhechango look like today? How has it kind of evolved? Take us through the the evolution, of the business.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:26:58]:
Well, we well, we started out with our business plan. A lot of money for research and development because at the time, in 2,000 17, 18, nobody had a platform for live selling. So there wasn't one out there. It didn't had a platform for live selling. So there wasn't one out there. It did not exist. So I said, okay. So we have to figure out what it is we need.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:27:18]:
So we built our business plan, and we figured we needed to raise money, and we need to have investors involved that kind of are gonna be patient with those understanding and learning the industry. And so because this isn't a 1 year hit, you know, a hit and run type investment. This is a long term investment that's going to have we need people that's gonna be able to carry this with us and work with us. So we work we look for the investments for people that wanna invest in us that believed in the long term vision, the law the of of where we can go with this as a as a business and where the industry's going. And so we did that. We we started to raise some money, and then we only raised a little bit every year, just enough to cover a couple developers. What we weren't looking to, you know, do anything other than try to get some MVP of of minimal viable product that we can use. And so in 2020, we launched our first version and throughout that year, I think we did $10,000 in sales.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:28:20]:
And in 2022, I think we launched another version, and we did that year, like, a 110,000 in sales. And then we went and got a focus group of of individuals. Now this gets interesting. So everybody listening, get a focus group of people that now, 3 years into it, people started selling live. They weren't doing it before, but they started doing it as we were building the company. And so I'd go on Facebook, and I would see people selling live. And so I started reaching out to these people, and I see and the people that I thought were successful doing really well. And I I met this girl, Kim, and her husband, Mike, and they were in Los Angeles.

Jeffrey Stern [00:28:59]:
Yeah.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:29:00]:
And they had 400 people in the room, and they were selling purses, and they were writing down the orders. And I'm watching them on the screen, and they're like, alright. Kathy wants the black purse with the m emblem, and they're writing this down. Well, I end up calling them. I said, I gotta meet this girl. So I end up meeting them. They end up doing, like, 20,000 in sales, writing down the orders manually, her, her husband, and her daughter in Los Angeles at somebody else's store selling products. And I just thought that was fascinating.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:29:31]:
And so I said so I got a focus group. So if you're listening, get a focus group of people that do this. And we started asking, what are the pain points? What are you up against? What do you need? And, you know, Kim would be like, well, listen. We need a way to check out easy. We need a buy button on the screen. You know, all these little you know, all the things we thought we needed. And so when we launched on our our latest version in 2023, just last year, you know, the year before we did, I think, like, a 110,000 in sales. And then last year, our 1st month, we hit almost a $100,000.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:30:03]:
And every month after that was hitting a $100,000 of I mean, with 3 people selling. So not having 100, not having 1,000 of people, just with a few peep a handful of sellers, we hit it. So numbers don't lie, you know, instantly when you got it right because the numbers don't lie. And so we we knew with fixing all the pain points that we finally got it right. And it was at that point, it was, okay. Now we got the final version. Now we need to get we we sat back down with the focus groups, said, alright. We got it's still working.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:30:36]:
A few more kinks. What else do we need? We made a whole list of 40 different things that need to be completed, and we're gonna spend the next 12 months completing them, and we're gonna launch. And that was about 6 months ago. In another few months, we'll be ready to launch to the world, but people are still using it today. It still does great. It's incredible, actually. It's growing. And, but the world doesn't even know about it yet.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:30:58]:
So we're actually launching to the world here real soon, and we just have a small base of, about 5,000 people now using it. And, but it's grown tremendously tremendously. And so, I mean, you could see the the month over month sales and numbers don't like. Numbers don't like.

Jeffrey Stern [00:31:18]:
As it's very exciting.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:31:19]:
Yeah. So it's interesting, and, you know, you gotta get it right. You gotta work at it and get it right. And so that's where we're at today with it. We're ready to launch it to the world real soon. We got some incredible features and things that we added that the world's gonna go nuts on when they see it. In beta, all the people that are using it are going nuts over it. So we have a a lot of great things we're really excited to show the world.

Jeffrey Stern [00:31:44]:
So to to the degree that you can, you know, help help us understand what this experience might might actually look and feel like, you know, with the this this idea of of live shopping, the the seller experience, the the buyer and customer experience, and and what is ultimately, JaTango's role in facilitating all of

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:32:04]:
it? Yeah. Currently, the way it works is we work within people's own social media. So if you have a a a Facebook page or your Instagram or wherever you're you're at socially and you wanna go live and sell products, you you need a you need a buy button, if you will, so people can buy that product. So if if you're on Facebook and you have a page now faith even though there is Instagram, which is big and popular and there's TikTok, it's still the number one way if you Google it in revenue returns and people selling a lot getting the highest returns is still Facebook. So Facebook is the highest by, like, 50 some percent, that if you wanna sell live, it's a great place to start. That's where all the buyers are at. That's where shoppers are at. That's where sellers are going for some reason still.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:32:46]:
So but if you go there, there's no easy way of selling. So what we created was that simple platform of having a button on your screen, so or a link right on your page. So if you go live on Facebook, you pin one of our links that has your products in it. When people click it, it splits the screen. So they're watching the video on the bottom, the store opens up, and whatever product they scan or that they select, it pops up on top and people can shop the product below it, and they're watching the show at the same time and they're making purchases and buying the products. We just made it very easy for people to sell within their own social media. Now in the near future, when we launch for June July, where or JaTango itself is building its own full blown website, you'll be able to be on all the platforms at the same time selling, and that's coming real soon.

Jeffrey Stern [00:33:44]:
Wow. You you mentioned, you know, the whole idea, especially in reflection of of your time with Rockme TV, the importance of timing. And so, you know, I'm curious this next time around, how have you thought about why is now the right time for for all of this to to happen?

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:34:04]:
It's it's not even me that dictates it. It's the industry, I think, that dictates it, the environment. Look at businesses closing up. Malls are closing down. No more foot traffic. COVID hit. I mean, things that are the world has changed and people either adapt to it or they they the company's gonna die. There's no, it's not even something I pick.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:34:25]:
It's something that just is happening. And so where are these people gonna go? They're losing their foot traffic. You know, they still got the same bills, but they don't have the same income no more. They gotta adapt. They gotta move. And and where they're seeing the biggest, fastest return is live selling. Give you an example. I was in Atlanta.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:34:44]:
I got a phone call from a friend that says that they have a business in Fort Lauderdale, and they said that they're hurting. They're only doing $500 a day. They have a, you know, 15,000 square foot warehouse and and showroom. Can we help them? And so the girl I was with was selling Kim. We decided to take a 9 hour ride further south. We went to Fort Lauderdale. We uploaded their products in our system. We just just we spent put a few hundred items in that day.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:35:10]:
That night, we went live. She did almost $4,000 in sales in a couple hours with them. They had a blast. They did more in sales that day than they do all week long. And so where else can you take a business and turn it around in the same day? Literally, turn that business around and do 7 times the sales in the same day. That's, like, unheard of.

Jeffrey Stern [00:35:34]:
Right. That's powerful. Undeniably. I

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:35:37]:
mean, you could you could take flyers and do advertisement and pass them around all day long and not get that same response as we got from going live in 2 hours.

Jeffrey Stern [00:35:47]:
So when you think about the path ahead and, you know, realizing, I think, this quite compelling vision for the for the future of of commerce and and live the live experience of it. What worries you? You know, if if it if it doesn't work out, you know, competition, just changing behavior of the status quo, What are the things that you think are hurdles to to overcome in the journey ahead?

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:36:15]:
The way I look at this business or any business, the way to stay ahead of anybody, even the companies that have 1,000,000,000 of dollars and unlimited resources, how do you beat them as if we're a little company? And I learned that if you know your business better than anybody else and you could stay ahead of the trends, then you can beat anybody in it. And so I don't worry too much. I keep all my energy focused on how do I stay ahead? How do I know this better than my competition, so that and how do I do a better job? I'm all about the customer. How do we make it better for our our sellers to sell? How do we make it easier for our buyers to buy, and how do we how do we make this, better for them? Customer service is number 1, And so that's what we focus on. And then I and I keep my focus in that area. You know, how do we just do better and be ahead of the trends? I think if you do that, you're gonna do good in business no matter what industry you're in.

Jeffrey Stern [00:37:13]:
Yeah. It segs, I think, into maybe a higher level question about, you know, what success ultimately means to you, you know, and when you think about the kind of impact that you'd like to have looking back in retrospect, You know, what is that, and what what's motivating you, along the way?

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:37:31]:
We build something that helps people do better and become better people and connect people, and we can help the world in a positive way. That to me is is success. And I think, you know, that's what we strive for, trying to help everybody we can in a positive way. There's too much negative in this world as it is, and so I wanna try to do what we can in in positivity here.

Jeffrey Stern [00:37:57]:
How do you think about the the just the encompassing, you know, parties to Jotango, which I would classify as the social media companies, but, you know, as TikTok, Instagram, whatever comes next, and there will certainly be something else, you know, What is, let me think of a a different way to frame this question. Because what what I I would like to get at is, you know, in this transition from, you know, kind of the mall experience, like you were mentioning, to the the role that social media companies play in the whole commerce ecosystem, are are is there, like, a platform threat, you know, almost like, how do you think about Jatango as a stand alone entity, you know, where people might come to Jatango to do that versus partnering compatibility with the social media companies?

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:38:48]:
Well, I think, 1, social media companies are great. You know, they brought together the world together in a lot of great ways, and they're always gonna be there, I think, in some form or another, like you said, whatever the next thing may be. How does that help or hurt Jatango? You know, like I said, people that go on Instagram are usually not people going on Instagram to sell products. See, social media, I believe, was built originally as social media. It's a social platform. Connect with your friends, your family, hang out, she'll think cool things. And now they're trying to convert over to live selling. And so we are the opposite.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:39:28]:
We are started in live selling, building into social media, creating a social platform around live selling, utilizing all the pain points, all the things we built. We we actually I'm in my studio here now in Cleveland. We actually built a full blown warehouse selling studio so that we can learn every single pain point. We sell over 6,000 orders have gone out last year. We're selling nonstop ourselves to learn every single pain point. How do you label products? How do you get boxes? What do you do for shipping? We got to learn every single thing so we became the best at it. We mastered it. I don't want nobody to know better than me, so I'm gonna make sure we're gonna deliver a product that that nobody's ever seen and it's gonna really help them.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:40:14]:
And we make it our point to know this business better than anybody. I mean, we just nonstop, we're selling on a daily basis, You know? So we're a selling platform that we also embrace the social media part of of the world because that is part of it, but we started as a as a selling platform. And I think that gives us a little advantage as well because we're coming from a different perspective.

Jeffrey Stern [00:40:39]:
What what are you most excited about looking forward?

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:40:42]:
You know, I I'm excited because I see the world changing. So Yeah. As all of us see it changing. Look at the last few years of our lives. I mean, in worst but I think if we can see a change in a positive way like, I'm looking at everybody from the single mother that wants to make money from her house because she has 3 kids at home, and how can she do it? And I got people now using Jatango. One girl's got a, she sells out of her closet. It's called a gently loved clothing or something like that. And she sells all these beautiful clothes that she only wore once, and she makes a living, and she supports her kids.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:41:20]:
And I think to myself, that is such a great blessing for them. But then I'm working with chain stores and department stores in Atlanta that we all they're they went from 2 stores to 9 stores now building our using our live selling platforms. And they're and we we we have an affiliate program built in now. And so so I I'm excited for the industry that I do see it's changing, and I do see that, it could be a positive change if done right.

Jeffrey Stern [00:41:50]:
What have you felt have been the hardest earned lessons along the way? And I'd be curious both from the perspective of, you know, lessons you took with you from your prior entrepreneurial journeys, you know, in in in retrospect, looking back on on Rockme TV and even the family business, and and how you've applied those to Jatango and then, you know, the the new lessons that you've learned in this more recent chapter.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:42:18]:
You know, the greatest lesson I I've learned too, one of them is, you know, if you're gonna start a business, make sure it's something you're committed to for the next 10 years of your life minimum, or don't start the business. So you so start the business if you're gonna be committed because there's gonna be ups and downs in any new business, and a lot of people quit when they're down. And so I learned not to quit until you're done, until you sold the business or wherever your level needs to be. You only lose if you quit, you know, so don't quit. So so start something you're gonna stay with. And even when it's slow and it's slow and people are like, you know, this ain't gonna work, you know, if you believe in it, stay with it. And I and so persistence is huge for me, persistence and stay committed, and then, I think success will follow.

Jeffrey Stern [00:43:07]:
And and what of, the lessons from JaTango do you feel you've learned that you didn't know going into it?

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:43:16]:
I I learn every day from JaTango. You know? I'm learning. There's so many different things with this business because you're dealing in a world of, you know, I'm not opening up a store and selling to the 20 people that come by today. I'm opening up a, a business that opens the doors to millions of people. It's just a different animal. It's just a different animal. And Jatango's constantly teaching me, all the time. It's just a different animal.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:43:42]:
So I'm always learning to be positive. Gotta be positive. And that's it. Be positive and move forward. Yep. Enjoy what you do. I enjoy what I do, so I love it. So as long as you can enjoy what you do.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:43:53]:
And every day, there's little lessons you learn every single day in business. And, and that goes with any business. I don't know if it's just your tango. But every day, you learn, you adapt, it evolves, you keep adapting, you move. And, but those are the things I love. And as an entrepreneur, most people love the constant change because they don't like the entrepreneurs don't like the same thing every day.

Jeffrey Stern [00:44:13]:
Right. Right. They like the It's the ups and the downs. It's the very high ups, the very low downs. Yeah. Not that it's ever easy, but you gotta enjoy the process. It it always comes back to that. Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:44:24]:
That that and people.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:44:25]:
Yeah. Exactly.

Jeffrey Stern [00:44:26]:
Well, I always like to leave a little space at the end for important parts of of your journey personally, professionally that that we haven't talked about, that you think are important to Relay.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:44:40]:
Important aspects of our business to Relay I mean, I think we covered a lot of ground. I mean, we're a live selling platform that could help anybody in business today or anybody that wants to start a business, you know? And you what's cool about JaTango is you could start the business with no money. You could start with the products you have. So if you wanna get started, you could go to JaTango. There's a number to call when you log in, right now because we're in beta. But as we launch out of beta here, you'll sign up within minutes, and that's it. You get connected, and within a few minutes, you you can actually upload your first product. Within 5 minutes, you could be live and selling your first product.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:45:20]:
It's that simple. You know, we we built our whole thing to be simple, easy to operate. I wanna say easy for a 10 year old, but that's the wrong statement today because 10 year olds are better on technology than the 70 year old.

Jeffrey Stern [00:45:32]:
It is true. So

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:45:34]:
so we made it for everybody super easy to use. Our goal with JaTango was to anybody or any business could sign up within minutes, go live, start selling products, and not cost them a penny to do that. And that's what we've accomplished. That's where we strive. You could be up and running in minutes, and, I think that can help a lot of it's helping a lot of people. It's changed lives. You know, I've seen people 3 years ago that started with us that were losing their business behind in rent and, today, they do over a1000000 a year with us and they, have just bought a 50,000 square foot warehouse, and their lives have changed because of live selling, the last couple years. You know? So it it is a cool industry, and it's evolving.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:46:22]:
And people who get in now, I think, are gonna be a part of early adapters, and they're gonna really do well with it.

Jeffrey Stern [00:46:28]:
Mhmm. Well, I'd I'd love to to layer on the the Cleveland component to to all of this and, you know, just what what it what it's meant to you to to build and and do this from Cleveland, as we cool. You know, we're working towards

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:46:40]:
important because I got to be you know, just even, like, watching your show. You know, you did Andrew, Spot who did VividFront when you interviewed him. And VividFront is a marketing company that we work with, and we met them through Jumpstart and our friend, Chris Smith over at Jumpstart. And, so the relationships in Cleveland are so far reaching. And they everybody, and the more I I learn about Cleveland and the entrepreneurs here, the more amazed and blown away I am of who's in this town. And some of them are a mile away, and I never knew it. And, and doing incredible things that are changing the planet. So a great Cleveland's a great, great place.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:47:23]:
I'm so blessed to have started in Cleveland and be based out of Cleveland. And the people that have jumped in to help us, give us exposure, and just just shout them out from the from Jumpstart, to VividFront and and companies like yourself. Come on, Jeff. You guys are doing look what you're doing for all the entrepreneurs in this city and how we're how you're connecting us too. Like, I look at some of the people you interviewed. I'm like, before the show, and people didn't hear this, but I'm like, yeah. I gotta meet so and so. I wanna meet some of these people you're interviewing.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:47:51]:
And, because it does relationships are everything, and, it's so important when you're growing a business. So and Cleveland's a a great hub for that. It it really is. Yeah. Yep.

Jeffrey Stern [00:48:03]:
Well, with that, I will ask you our our traditional closing question

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:48:07]:
Okay.

Jeffrey Stern [00:48:08]:
Which is also about Cleveland, but potentially unrelated to anything we talked about, which is for your favorite hidden gem in the area. Something that other folks should know about that maybe they don't.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:48:23]:
Favorite hidden gem in Cleveland. Hidden gem. You know, I I'm Italian, so I'm thinking of food.

Jeffrey Stern [00:48:35]:
That that's a perfect place to go.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:48:38]:
And, you know, I think of Jay Bellas in Strongsville. Great people, great owners over there. Joe, and I think of, Mike from Tribbs over in Strongsville. Great place. Great atmosphere. I don't know if you've ever been there, but great, great place. Check them out, but a couple little gems that we I like to break with our visits, that are good people, good owners, and run good businesses.

Jeffrey Stern [00:49:03]:
Amazing. Yeah. Great. Well, Phil, I just wanna thank you again. This was a a lot of fun, but for for coming on and and just sharing your story and and more about the work you're doing.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:49:14]:
Jeff, I am so honored to be a part of what you're doing. Blessed to be here, and I appreciate you taking the time to have me. Thank you so much.

Jeffrey Stern [00:49:22]:
For sure. If if folks had anything that they wanted to follow-up with you about, or, you know, use Totango, whatever it may be, what what's the best way for them to do so?

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:49:31]:
Yeah. Definitely. Send an email. If there's anybody who's interested, they could send it to, admin, adminadmin@jatango. That's j a and the word tango, t a n g o. And you can never forget it. Yeah. J a and the word tango.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:49:45]:
So admin@jatango.com. Hit us up. I get a copy of every one of the emails that go to that. So I will follow those, and, we'd be happy to answer any questions or help anybody or connect dots, whatever needs to be done. Great.

Jeffrey Stern [00:49:58]:
Well, thank you again, Phil.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:49:59]:
Jeffrey, I appreciate it. I'm looking forward. I'm sure we'll be in touch really soon.

Jeffrey Stern [00:50:02]:
Yes. We will.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:50:03]:
Yeah. And call me when you get the Cleveland.

Jeffrey Stern [00:50:06]:
I will.

Phil Londrico (JaTango) [00:50:07]:
Alright, buddy. Thanks so much.

Jeffrey Stern [00:50:11]:
That's all for this week. Thank you for listening. We'd love to hear your thoughts on today's show, so if you have any feedback, please send over an email to jeffrey@layoftheland.fm, or find us on Twitter at podlayofthelandor@sternjefe, j e f e. If you or someone you know would make a good guest for our show, please reach out as well and let us know. And if you enjoy the podcast, please subscribe and leave a review on iTunes or on your preferred podcast player. Your support goes a long way to help us spread the word and continue to bring the Cleveland founders and builders we love having on the show. We'll be back here next week at the same time to map more of the land.