#171: Umberto Fedeli Round II — Lifelong Learning, Happiness, Wealth, and Investing

-- AI-Generated --

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:00:00]:
So why not play to your strength? Why do you wanna play someone else's game that you're not good at? You don't have success in it. You don't really know what you're doing, and they really like what they're doing, and they're really good at it doing, and now you're competing with them. Why? You're starting off at a big disadvantage. At some point, you don't know anything about anything, so you gotta learn something. Right? But I gotta tell you, when you use the concept of rational targeting, what you like, what you're good at, and what you're passionate about, then you're gonna have exponential success because you're in your zone and you would do it because you like to do it. And then you tend to do well with it because you're does it it's not even like work. It's like it's just like what you do. And I think that that makes things more enjoyable. And I think ultimately, you probably have a little bit more success with it.

Jeffrey Stern [00:00:45]:
Let's discover what people are building in the greater Cleveland community. We are telling the stories of of Northeast Ohio's entrepreneurs, builders, and those supporting them. Welcome to the Lay of the Land podcast where we are exploring what people are building in Cleveland and throughout Northeast Ohio. I am your host, Jeffrey Stern, and my returning guest today is Humberto Fedeli. I first had the opportunity to speak with Humberto on this podcast just over a year ago. At the time, our conversation extended far beyond what we were able to include in the original episode, exploring his Italian heritage and Cleveland upbringing, evolution of his career, life philosophies and approach to business as both an investor and entrepreneur as the founder of one of the largest risk management and insurance firms in Ohio. To set the right context for today's conversation, I encourage you to listen to Humberto break down his perspective on Lay of the Land's 135th episode. You can find a link in the show notes.

Jeffrey Stern [00:01:46]:
In our conversation today, we pick up where we left off and continue to unpack Humberto's abundance of earned learnings and insights over his career and his life. Spanning themes from investing, commitment to lifelong learning, happiness, fulfillment and significance, money and motivation, purpose and meaning, giving back, and a whole lot more. So without further ado, please enjoy this great conversation with Humberto Fedeli after a brief message from our sponsor. Success in this ever changing alumni of John Carroll University, success in this ever changing world of business requires a dynamic and innovative mindset, deep understanding of emerging technologies and systems, strong ethics, leadership prowess, acute business acumen, all qualities nurtured through the Bohler College of Business. With 4 different MBA programs of study spanning professional, online, hybrid, and 1 year flexible, the Bohler College of Business provides flexible timelines flexible timelines and various class structures for each MBA track, including online, in person, hybrid, and asynchronous. All to offer the most effective options for you including the ability to participate in an elective international study tour providing unparalleled opportunities to expand your global business knowledge by networking with local companies overseas and experiencing a new culture. The career impact of a bowler MBA is formative and will help prepare you for this future of business and get more out of your career. To learn more about John Carroll University's Buller MBA programs, please go to business.jcu.edu.

Jeffrey Stern [00:03:35]:
The bowler college of business is fully accredited by AACSB International. The highest accreditation a college of business can have. So I'm I'm thrilled to be able to do this again. When I revisit our our last conversation and think about how much it did resonate with with folks, and I was trying to think, you know, why that might be the case. And I I came to maybe the the clarity and simplicity with what you're able to articulate, you know, kind of the the principles, your philosophy as they relate to to life, to business, to your success writ large. But I remember, you know, walking away with with a lot more questions that I wanted to ask you about even though we kinda covered maybe a a representative portion of of your life and thoughts. And and other topics that I know some of, the folks that I had convened with who know you well, Bob Campana, Adam Kaufman, who had suggested some things that I think would be really fun to unpack together. So I'm looking forward to do that today having, I think, laid the foundation, for it.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:04:45]:
Thank you, Jeffrey. I appreciate it.

Jeffrey Stern [00:04:47]:
So I I was thinking about what the right immediate thread to pull on would be to to continue our conversation. And normally, I like to avoid timely topics in in favor of, you know, more of the timeless things. But in the time since we spoke, I think someone who we probably both respect and care and learned a great deal from passed away, namely Charlie Munger. And given the direct applicability of his thinking to the kind of work that you do, and I know you and I have even talked about Berkshire and Buffett. And I'm curious just what you have felt the most salient lessons to learn from Charlie are and and how how you've channeled them in in what you do.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:05:27]:
Well, thanks. I think it's a great question. I think, Jeffrey, that Charlie Munger was one of these, unique guys who had incredible wisdom. And maybe one of the definitions I like of wisdom, there's many, the ability to recognize patterns. And I think that, Charlie, we talk about the ability to have a lattice mental models and the ability to take all life experiences that when he looked at investments, but experiences beyond just financials. Because investments are basically business and the other part are human nature. And I think the more complicated part is the human nature part. It's, you know, the art side and the science side.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:06:05]:
And so Charlie Munger had this unique ability to really understand, like like Warren Buffett, human nature. And I think that the lattice mental models was something that stuck out. And also he was very big on inversion. So anytime we look at something and we look at why we want to do something or why we should do something in business or in life or in investments, There's a lot of correlations between the 3. It's also a good process to invert and be that devil's advocate or look at all the reasons you don't want to show the antithesis of something sometimes is a good, a good process. The other thing I think, besides lattice amount to models and the inversion, Charlie Munger had this ability to be so intellectually honest. And as Peter Drucker, once said, most people in life see things for the way they want to see them, not for the way they really are. Yep.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:06:58]:
And Charlie Munger had that ability to look at things the way they they really are. And, also, he had a sense of, integrity in everything. Now he could be a little bit, sarcastic. He could be a little bit, he's

Jeffrey Stern [00:07:10]:
known for some clips.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:07:11]:
So, yes, he he'd be a little you know, maybe he's not as diplomatic as, his good friend in Warren Buffett, but but he, he lived a tough life when you think about, you know, he lost a child very young. Yeah. He was divorced. He lost his eye. There was a period of time that he was on the streets crying after losing a child. And he said he just had to learn to muddle through things in life to just because things were gonna happen to you. And he, you know, he lived to just about, you know, 100. So he's a very wise guy.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:07:44]:
I don't mean a wise guy, but a very guy full of wisdom. Truly wise. But I think the lattice, the the inversion, the the intellectual honesty, and I think also he made it very clear that it's a few good decisions. That's a Pareto's law, which we wrote an article about, and it works almost in every aspect of life. It's a a few important decisions that really have the most impact on your life, on your investments, on your career. And sometimes we think there are so many, and he was very big on focusing on fewer, not more. So I think that's the takeaway. The Charlie, book that the the the almanac, Bobby Campana had sent that to me as a gift.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:08:22]:
I've listened to I think about everyone over decades of his talks or of his speeches. And so again, he and Warren are not life heroes for me. There's a separation. They're kind of business or investment heroes. Yep. There are other people that may be more of a hero, maybe a school teacher or a nurse or a a Mother Teresa or somebody like that. But when it comes to business and investments, tremendous wisdom.

Jeffrey Stern [00:08:47]:
I had a feeling you would have that kind of informed opinion about him. So I I think he he's taught me a lot as well. So if if there was a a pattern or a theme to our our last conversation, think and and probably this is because it's true for you, but it, you know, it was about the the who. And we we talked a lot about that, as a as a principal decision in, you know, contemplating the kinds of impact that can have for the the work that you do across, you know, everything, who you marry, who you do business with, who you admire. You know, all this has a a great deal of influence. One thing that we we didn't get to talk about last time that I I wanted to learn from you about how you think about it is the way you apply that thinking towards your your own business, you know, who who you work with. And particularly when you think about who, you know, works here with you at the Fidelity Group, the the kinds of qualities and characteristics of the people that you have found over the long run lead to the best kind of relationships that that you, admire. And perhaps with that, some of the characteristics or qualities that you have learned since maybe don't have the weight and importance that perhaps you thought they did when you when you were making those decisions.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:10:03]:
Well, I think it's a it's a good point. And to me, just like an investment at 80% of your success is asset allocation. Yeah. And and in life, it's also allocation, but not assets. We'll just take a couple letters off of that. And and and so if the who isn't right, the what usually doesn't matter. And and you'll be for you figure out in life, what you wanna do. You sometimes need to figure out, you know, who you wanna be.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:10:31]:
Right? And so we have a simple philosophy that we want to have people we call have or possess the 3 i's. 1 and foremost is integrity. Without integrity, a lot more doesn't matter. It may be the most important thing. Yeah. Sound like Howard Marks in his book, the most important thing, where he had 20 or 30 chapters and there was should have been called the most important things. Right. But integrity is of the utmost important.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:10:58]:
Then you need to have, intensity. And and I define that as the ability to bring something to a conclusion, get something done, get results, because you can go through the motions. But if you don't get the results and you go through the process and you don't end up getting the results of what you're trying to accomplish, then sometimes you're just, you know, running in circles. And then the other is intelligence. But what I mean by intelligence, it's much broader than intellectual intelligence. It could be emotional intelligence. It could be, you know, street smarts, it could be experience. So to me, it's starts off with the 3 i's.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:11:31]:
And then we shift over to what I call the 3 c's. Do you have, 3 commitments we asked for? And and one of them is, are you committed to lifelong learning? Are you committed to learning your industry, your business, your profession, your country, your community? Basically, do you have that intellectual curiosity where you're always trying to learn? So we want people that are are committed to to to life learn learning in many many aspects of life. And then we wanna know, are you cooperative, collegial, congenial, and collaborative with your colleagues? Because you can be really nice with a customer or very nice on the outside, but, but are you also that way on the inside? Because then it's hard to work with somebody that doesn't have that. And so once you talk about, you know, the commitments of lifelong learning, the other thing is, are you proactive and not reactive? Because you can avoid so many problems in life if you're proactive and take approach and try to anticipate. It's never gonna be perfect. But if you anticipate what a client would want, if you'd anticipate something that perhaps you should be doing, think ahead. You look at some great athletes. They have the ability to visualize catching that ball or hitting that ball or whatever they're doing.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:12:43]:
And and so to me, it's the 3 commitments and the three i's. I once wrote a piece about the 6 e's, but also you have to, you know, encounter someone, and you have to encourage them, and then you gotta empathize with them.

Jeffrey Stern [00:12:55]:
Right?

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:12:55]:
Yeah. But then you also have to energize.

Jeffrey Stern [00:12:57]:
It's powerful alliteration here. Yeah.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:12:59]:
And so that that's how I remember things and try to simplify them in my mind. And like I said, the ability to recognize patterns. But integrity is important. Obviously, work ethic's important and, you know, interpersonal skills. If you have the ability to learn, then you can learn new things. But if you're not committed to lifelong learning, and unfortunately, sometimes people 30 or 40 years later are just doing the same thing the same way, and they really haven't progressed. And they they really don't have an interest in progressing. Right? They just can't wait to leave and go do what else they do.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:13:29]:
So to me, those are the important things.

Jeffrey Stern [00:13:31]:
How do you how do you gauge those within people?

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:13:34]:
Well, it's it's not always so easy because, you know, when you interview people, and I don't think I'm the best at it because I tend to like most people. Some people can interview very well, and then their performance isn't there. And other people maybe are are not as skillful in interviewing, but they're really incredible in the results. I find the best way to really find out about someone is talk to as many people as you know or that you can find that know that person. And and so we have a gentleman on the West Coast that we invest with. They'll talk to between 102 100 customers before they invest into one software company. Well, you start finding a pattern if you just talk to 1 or 2 or 3. So I think for me, the best way is to find out, you know, how how they interact.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:14:18]:
I remember, listening to Ken Langone, who is one of the co founders of Home Depot, a brilliant guy, super successful guy, great human being, a great philanthropist who now is in his late eighties.

Jeffrey Stern [00:14:29]:
Yep.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:14:30]:
And he stayed away from one of the the worst con men's in the in the world. And and I said, how did you know this guy? You golf with him, and how did you realize? And he said, well, when I golf with him, he was really nice to me, and he he could not have been sweeter, and we had lunch. But when I saw him interacting with the caddy, he was nasty, and how he interacted with the person who parked his car. Then I saw how he interacted with the the the waitress. Right? He said, that was a turn off to me that he treated me nice because I was a rich billionaire, but he did treat others really nice. And so I think how people treat people, how do they treat their mothers, their fathers, their brothers, their sisters? No. They we can tease each other, right, and and joke around, and it's not a perfect world. But I think people tend to be

Jeffrey Stern [00:15:08]:
relatively consistent, and you

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:15:08]:
want people who are kind and compassionate. Empathy is so And you want people who are kind and compassionate. Empathy is so important to me. Commitment, character, brought a piece once about how I see with, you know, 5 or 6 c leaders, great leaders. Okay. Good communicators. Right? And compassionate men of commitment or women of commitment. So I think to me, it's talking to a number of people.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:15:31]:
I also have learned probably the hard way to get other people involved in the process. Yeah. So instead of you trying to do everything yourself, have your teammates, have your associates also being involved in that in that interview process, feel part of it. They may see something that others don't see. And I happen to think, and this might sound a little sexist, but I think sometimes that, I think sometimes ladies are a little smarter. They see things that men don't always see. They see through things. They're not as easily full.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:16:01]:
They have better senses of situations. So I think diversity is a good thing. Diversity in age, diversity in experiences, diversity male, female, younger, older, education. I think, diversity is a good thing, not a bad thing.

Jeffrey Stern [00:16:19]:
Yeah. So you have this, this love of learning and evidently a commitment to lifelong learning and a value of it in others. I'm curious how you continue to cultivate it within yourself, you know, and and why shouldn't we just be satisfied with what we know?

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:16:36]:
Well, there's so much to learn. I mean, it's almost insatiable to me because I don't care if it's investments, for instance, or if it's about health Yeah. Or if it's about history. I mean, to me, there's just so much to learn about people, about life. To me, it's, it's something, if I had done this in college, I would have been number 1 in my class. Right. But I was working so much that I wasn't studying as much. But, but this whole idea of lifelong learning, again, it's easier what I, what I explained if you do what I refer to as rational targeting.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:17:08]:
If you do what you're good at, what you like, and what you're interested in, and you're passionate about, because then you have an interest. I find it harder for me to be committed to life long learning in areas that I'm not very interested or passionate about.

Jeffrey Stern [00:17:21]:
Right.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:17:21]:
So then you might have to do it to get through something, but then it's a little harder for me. So there's certain topics that I I just don't have a lot of interest in. Not that they're bad. There's certain sports I just don't have a passion for. There's certain things, you know, maybe in the science area. But I think, the rational targeting when you're passionate about something and you're good at it and you've had experiences with it, and then you do something called relationship mapping, where you then take contacts you have and say, okay, how do you now execute? And going from what I refer to as connecting dots, or collecting dots to connecting dots. Because you can collect dots, but if you never execute anything, then you leave so much success on the table, and 1 or 2 more steps could provide exponential success.

Jeffrey Stern [00:18:06]:
Yeah. With the overwhelming amount of things you could learn about, how do you try to balance, you know, the tried and true wisdom that's stood the test of time versus what is is trending today, but may you know, there is some signal in that in that noise. How how do you try and weigh, you know, where to focus your own curiosity?

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:18:30]:
For full disclosure and to be totally transparent, by nature, I am not balanced. So so for I'm not a balanced person. So I have to work at balance because I'm I'm not. I think anything that is more futuristic could be fascinating, could be interesting, but it's just an educated guess. And if you really think how inaccurate most predictions are, And Howard Marks, who is a brilliant guy, and he gives great talks. And I read his memos, but I actually like watching his interviews better than than his memos. Now he'll say, you know, we know where we've been because we've been there. We know we're at because we're there.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:19:05]:
We really have no idea where we're going. Yeah. And if it's politics or if it's predicting interest rates or things that happen in the world, so much of life is much more random than we would we'd like to think. So you can study where we're at in history and and have pretty good results because it happened. So if for instance, if you talk about, let's say, AI and start predicting all the things that can potentially happen, It's fascinating. I don't know what it does or doesn't happen. You know, we think we can predict the future. I think it's pretty hard.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:19:41]:
We don't really know if something is a trend or is it just a fad. I'll show you pictures of, leisure suits back, in the seventies. They haven't come back yet. Maybe they will someday. That may have been a fad. But I remember walking into, Lululemon for the first time, with my son-in-law, Luke, and and my other son, Luke, and we were in Naples. And I said, now is this gonna be a trend, or is this a fad? And and I couldn't necessarily tell at the time, but, you know, bell bottoms. Right.

Jeffrey Stern [00:20:15]:
Right.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:20:15]:
Or or longer hair, shorter hair, wide lapels. I remember when I was younger, I worked with a great guy named Harvey Lewis, and his his father was from Russia, Simon. And I said, mister Lewis, your dad is always so dressed so so so dapper. He have suits and his ties. And he said, those are so old that they've come back in style. So I thought it was he was fashionable. It's just if you wait long enough, the wide lapel, the the pleats, the no pleats, the cuffs, the no cuffs. So sometimes things are cycles and they come back.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:20:43]:
Right. There's other times where it's it's a fad. So when we start looking at predicting the future, I had a 5 year period where I thought, maybe we could do that. And we were looking at these companies that we were saying, these are disruptors. They're gonna change how things are done. And and for 5 years, it worked until it didn't work.

Jeffrey Stern [00:21:01]:
Right.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:21:01]:
And I gotta tell you something. I went back now and when I call disruptors now, I said, now we call them speculative growth. Because trying to predict these early companies and which ones are gonna make it, it's fascinating, but it is so hard. And I finally realized that I'm not that good at it. I thought I was because it worked for 5 years, and and we had enormous success. We had made a little investment in a company, that went up 18 fold, and then we had another one that worked. And then all of a sudden, you know, we were investing in companies right before or right after, let's say, COVID.

Jeffrey Stern [00:21:35]:
Right.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:21:35]:
And it worked, and we really thought we were really smart. Well, DocuSign worked because people weren't going out getting signatures, and Pinterest people were looking at that, and Teladoc and and, you know, telemedicine because people weren't visiting. And a lot of these things, we we our timing was either lucky or maybe we were intuitive, but they got so overvalued that we didn't really pay attention on how overvalued. I I try to figure out what the p ratio was, but they didn't have e. Then it said price to cash flow, and I couldn't figure that out. And then I had some young guys say, and I don't think you understand. These are really trade on price to sales. And I said, well, how do you rationalize that? How could you refinance it? How do the numbers work? And I said, it didn't make sense, but the whole world didn't seem to make sense, and then it didn't make sense anymore.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:22:20]:
So now back as an investor and back to what we have figured out that we have consistently done well, and that is finding a company that's already proven. They're already the leader. They're already a wide moat. They're already successful. They already have a durable, sustainable, competitive advantage, and they're out of favor and at attractive valuation. They're already proven. I'm not predicting anything. They've already done the hard part, and I just get in when they think it's attractive.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:22:41]:
And if it becomes more attractive, I add, and then I don't have to figure out if they're gonna make it or not because they already did. If you think about Warren Buffett, he didn't buy Apple up until several years back. Right? He could have made way more money if he had predicted Apple earlier or Netflix earlier or Amazon earlier. Now I I admire guys that are in venture. Right? It's fascinating to me, but I gotta tell you something. Sometimes I think it's more gambling, and you know you're gonna have a lot of losers and just hope that a couple of those winners will more than make that up. I have finally admitted, that I don't think I'm that good at that because they all sound like good ideas.

Jeffrey Stern [00:23:18]:
Right.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:23:18]:
And most of them don't work. Right.

Jeffrey Stern [00:23:20]:
And and

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:23:20]:
it's very hard to figure out which ones are. I remember a friend of mine looked at Amazon when it first came out and he said, just they just sell them books. He didn't think there was anything that special. Their website didn't look that great. And and so it's it's not that simple. Right? And so it it it's harder. So to to me, anything that's futuristic is fascinating, but will it ever even work? I remember years ago, they said, oh, you're gonna be able to just talk into things and they'll do this, and you won't have to be able to do this. And the technology still isn't good.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:23:48]:
Yeah. I have to be careful. I don't even use my my iPhone and talking it too often because I've been embarrassed with some things that come up the other side Oh, sure. If I don't proof it. Right? Some of these things never happen or they don't happen as well as people think.

Jeffrey Stern [00:24:00]:
Right. Well, I think it it layers back in that that notion you had mentioned earlier of the way that you want to perceive the world versus the way maybe that it intellectual honest is hard.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:24:12]:
Yeah. And and, you know, people so he calls it the way it is. I said, no. He calls it the way he thinks it is. The way it really is and the way you think it is isn't always the way it really is. And so having that ability to be so intellectually honest and say, you know what? I really messed up. Even Cialdini wrote a book called influence and the ability to acknowledge your mistakes and acknowledge your faults. What actually happens if you have that ability to do that is people actually trust you more and they like you more because you show some vulnerability.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:24:43]:
And most people wanna talk about their winners and not their losers, and very few people can admit their mistakes. And I never had a problem admitting my mistakes. I made so many of them that I had no problem admitting them because I said I'm not very good at doing much, and the people around me already knew that anyway. So what was I admitting? Committing something they already knew? Peep the cover up is always worse if you think about it. You you screw up and you made a mistake and you said, Jeffrey, I'm sorry. I I made a mistake, and here's what I did, and I apologize for it. Sometimes people start feeling bad that you're tougher on yourself than they would have been on you.

Jeffrey Stern [00:25:11]:
Yeah. No. I I think that's right. I wanna just introduce kind of an orthogonal top topic here if if you're open to it. So, you know, through the through the podcast, I I get to learn from a lot of founders about their motivations, their inspirations, kind of what is driving them. And there's this overwhelming pattern of purpose, autonomy, capping their own ship, cultivating the kind of culture that they wish they had worked in when they were working somewhere else. But I think there is a latent one, which is is financial independence in its nature, and, particularly from those who had not had it in their upbringing. And and so I I do wanna talk about money for a moment.

Jeffrey Stern [00:25:54]:
And and I think, you know, from the other side of financial independence, I'd love to hear from you how you have thought about about money as a motivation and how you're thinking on it has changed over the time that you have achieved the success that you have.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:26:09]:
Well, I you have some experiences. So, you know, growing up, being born in the inner city in in a rented double and then moving to a middle class neighborhood as a baby, having a father that was hardworking, 5th grade, 3 of my grandparents, 3rd grade. One didn't go to school, so nobody in my family had gone to junior high, let alone high school or college. So I I'm a peasant kid. When you couldn't afford something, you actually want it more. I remember one time I left my my bike in front of my dad's garage, and it was a detached garage, and he had a dump truck. And he had worked a 110, a 120 hours that week, and he gave me one warning. Don't ever leave your bike there.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:26:51]:
And I did it several weeks later and I couldn't find my bike and it was gone.

Jeffrey Stern [00:26:55]:
Oh, no. And I said, dad,

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:26:56]:
when when can I have my bike back? He said, when you buy your own bike. And I couldn't afford to buy a bike and I didn't have any money and I had to wait till I could work. So the ability to buy that bike and the ability to buy gifts for somebody, I remember being in school and I went shopping and bring the holidays for some presents. And when I went to the register, I didn't have enough, anywhere near enough money, and it wasn't a lot. And that feeling of going back and putting everything on the shelf because I couldn't afford to buy something for somebody else, I didn't like that feeling. I remember the first time going on a trip and staying at the, Luster facilities and went to until she yes. The, the restrooms down the hall. And then, you know, of course, I was a little heavier.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:27:38]:
I was £330, £304, and you've been laying on the bed and the bed hit the bottom of the floor. And and then you walked into some beautiful resort with the flowers and the trees and the beautiful lobbies. To say that that, you know, because you couldn't afford things, you wanted them more, or we would, you know, we would drink, these off brand sodas. I won't mention some of the names, and they did they just didn't taste as good or these off brand, products that were like not quite as good, as the others were. So I think what happens is that, there's no question that that people want to achieve, some financial success and the ability to have the independence and the ability to, buy a nicer clothes or nicer car or nicer gifts or to be more generous to to others. I think financial means gives you more independence. It gives you more options. It gives you the ability to do more for others.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:28:36]:
It gives you the ability to have more comfort. It gives you the ability to, you know, to live, maybe perhaps a more enjoyable life. Not as much as people think, by the way, when I've done the research on on the happiness thing. But but financial success, initially, I just wanted to be independent and do my own thing because I didn't fit the world and I wanted to be to my own drum. So it started off with, I wanna be independent. Yep. Because I just wanna do my own thing because I just didn't want to be part of the corporate world, party establishment. I just didn't seem to fit.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:29:05]:
And then and and I didn't want to fit. And then it was well then, okay. Well then, you wanna make a good living? And and and then it's alright. Well, if I just get that top 10% and that was okay, then you said, well, that's good. But boy, if you give me that top 1%, I mean, that that's really okay. And then said, well, that's okay. But boy, if you could get to that top 1 tenth of 1%. And and so, you know, you you keep on raising the bar.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:29:29]:
Unfortunately, with any level of success or power or anything that is material, there actually is no number. It's insatiable. And and at some point, it it's really diminishing. But but you don't think that. You always think the next level and the next level and the next level. But there's no question, that when you have the ability to do more for others, be it philanthropy, be it for family members, the better grade of ice cream.

Jeffrey Stern [00:29:55]:
You know

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:29:55]:
what I'm saying? The other day, I had to I tasted some some Haagen Dazs butter pecan or or pralines and cream and Haagen Dazs rum and raisin, and I had forgot because I'm lactose intolerant. I said, wow. That pretty good ice cream. Right? It's pretty good. Yeah. It's pretty good. And and so and so, of course, I even like bad ice cream. So so to be there's 2 flavors, good and better.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:30:15]:
Right? And and same with cake. I said, if that's bad cake, I'll like it. And if it's really good cake, I'll even like it more. And and and so I think, yes, to to say that most people that have had some degree of success in life didn't want to be more successful financially. I I think for the most part, that's not the case. I think it is. But also purpose becomes as you go up that, you know, hierarchy, if you will. Purpose becomes more important because if it's just about financial success and there's not a purpose behind it, and even, you know, the the research that, Arthur Brooks has done at the Harvard Business School about the whole topic about happiness and what can money buy you relative to happiness.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:30:54]:
Right? And there are things that money can buy relative to happiness and in, you know, the 3 major areas and one of them were experiences, but experiences without people memories aren't the same. Yep. Philanthropy or doing good things for other people. Doesn't necessarily necessarily be big, but be able to do other things. And and then also time. So so if you don't like cutting the grass and you can hire someone to cut the grass, or if you don't like driving, or if you can, you know, fly private so you don't have to wait around in airports and and get delayed as much. So those are the 3 major areas that money can buy relative to happiness.

Jeffrey Stern [00:31:27]:
Right.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:31:27]:
But but money in itself and happiness, people will typically, if they're just chasing, financial success or power, what what, Saint Thomas Aquinas said to be careful of the, vicious 4 versus to embrace the virtuous 4, which are, you know, faith, family, friends, and work. But work had to have, service to others Yeah. And earned success.

Jeffrey Stern [00:31:55]:
Lay of the Land is brought to you by Impact Architects and by 90. As we share the stories of entrepreneurs building incredible organizations in Cleveland and throughout Northeast Ohio, Impact Architects has helped 100 of those leaders, many of whom we have heard from as guests on this very podcast, realize their own visions and build these great organizations. I believe in Impact Architects and the people behind it so much that I have actually joined them personally in their mission to help leaders gain focus, align together, and thrive by doing what they love. If you 2 are trying to build great, Impact Architects is offering to sit down with you for a free consultation Architects or by Architects or by leveraging 90 to power your own business, please go to ia.layoftheland.fm. The link will also be in our show notes. Yeah. Well, I I've heard you talk about happiness as love, and the essence of love is in the service of others. I think there's a there's a lot of topics we could we could go to from here.

Jeffrey Stern [00:33:05]:
Maybe we could just, you know, go a little deeper on this confluence of happiness and and money for a moment. Why is it insatiable in in the way that you had mentioned?

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:33:15]:
Well, if you read some of the great philosophers, Aristotle being one, Plato, Socrates, deep down, most people really do a lot of things in their life because they're really yearning to be happy. So if it's career or if it's marriage or family or many other decisions, As human beings, we have this desire to figure out how to be happy. It's often a path that isn't the right path, but you don't necessarily know that sometimes for decades or many years or to achieve various levels and think it's the next level. If you look at some of the greatest movie stars, performers, singers, famous people who had very, unfortunate lives, and you say they were on top of their game. They were the number one. They were, like, the best, and they, are not around anymore and is or they had very sad, endings. And I also had experiences meeting a lot of people that I saw that they thought they were after what they thought would make them happy until they were at the end. And I were did have the opportunity being with people, you know, literally on their deathbeds and and then how remorseful they were doing the things they thought or seeing things that didn't work out.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:34:28]:
And I think ultimately, if you had to pick just one word, just one, love is the most important word. So if you read the new testament and got nothing else out of the new testament and you say, it's about love because love is the most powerful emotion, and we also yearn for love. If a baby doesn't have love, the baby dies. This is not just a philosophy. They literally die without love. So so love is the most important thing, but love usually happens when you are doing something for someone else. That caring that a parent does, the mother of a child, the grandparent, someone who loves their country or loves their friend, having that purpose of putting somebody, above themselves so it doesn't become selfish. So I think it's ultimately, about about love.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:35:13]:
I think, in Arthur Brooks' research, the virtues for that Saint Thomas Aquinas talked about, but also they were given to us at the beatitudes 2000 years ago. And I couldn't even figure out what what they really meant. The beatitudes is a Greek word for blessed or or happiness. And so the first one's poor spirit. Well, people who who have a sense of humility and put other people's needs above them tend to be happier. And then, you know, second was blessed are sorrowful. People that can admit their faults or mistakes tend to be happier people.

Jeffrey Stern [00:35:42]:
And we're

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:35:42]:
talking about like Charlie Munger. Right? He admit his faults and his mistakes. And and so the the the virtues were faith, and it isn't so important. Faith is very important. But on the research, it wasn't a particular religion, a particular church, a particular temple. It was the fact that the sense of humility to to say there's somebody more powerful than me because Charlie Munger likes to look at, inversion, and CS Lewis said the biggest sin of man is a sin of pride. So if you invert pride, you come up with humility. And so if you have some sense of humility, but but saying thank you shows a sense of humility.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:36:17]:
Saying please, saying sorry. I mean, we don't have to have these big things to show a sense of humility, give somebody something to drink, but that doesn't mean you can't have financial success. The ability in this great country that we live in is you can have your cake and eat it too. And I used to say, what good is a cake if you can't eat it? So so what is wrong if you have more financial success? You can do more good for your family, more good for your friends, more good for society. It's a good thing. Yeah. Success is not a bad thing, and even scripture would say it's the love of money. It's the root of all evil.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:36:49]:
The love of power when you put the power and the money above relationships or above people. That Harvard study that followed people around for 85 years, 85100 people. Okay? I'd summarize that whole study in one word. The people that had the most fulfilling lives had the best relationships. That was the one word. It was relationships. Even Buffett quoted something about love, and he's not known as, you know, a guy that that talks about love. He's, you know, one of the greatest investors in the history, and he's a business guy.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:37:17]:
But here, he's not talking about the wealthiest person people you love loved you. So it comes back to that, but why can't you do both? What's wrong with financial success? To me, having people that feel guilty of being successful, I don't think anybody should be guilty. I think capitalism is a good thing. Now understand, by the nature of capitalism, sometimes it is zero sum schemes. So sometimes it wins and somebody loses. It's not always win win, unfortunately, in capitalism. And sometimes in capitalism, it's not perfect. Yeah.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:37:46]:
But it sure beats communism and it sure beats socialism. And we don't have a perfect society. We don't have a perfect world, but America is a lot better place than most countries in the world that have socialism or communism. They're trying to get into our country. Right? You don't see too many Americans trying to go out somewhere else. So we do have a lot of problems in our country. We have a lot of challenges in our country, but I think success can be a good thing if you use your success to do good. If you use your success to help others, if you use your success to take care of your family, it's okay to help your family out.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:38:21]:
If you're not gonna take care of your kids, who's gonna take care of your kids or your grandkids? It's okay. Now you wanna teach them discipline and love, and and you have to say no sometimes. You can't say yes all the time. Right? And you gotta let them work so they understand what it it takes. And sometimes they have to understand there's rejections and there's also consequences. And I had to learn that either you who love your children discipline them or somebody in the world that doesn't love them will. Yeah. And once you realize that if you love them, you discipline them because you love them, you will never hurt them if you discipline as long as there's love.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:38:51]:
But boy, I tell you what, a lack of discipline causes a lot of problem because there's consequences in the real world with inappropriate behavior.

Jeffrey Stern [00:38:59]:
I definitely wanna come back to the the philanthropic thread. But what I wanna ask first is how would you think about trying to gauge whether you are playing the right game, even like in service of avoiding the later in life regrets that unfortunately, you know, people that you've known, I'm sure everyone has known have about, maybe they weren't even playing the right game.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:39:23]:
Well, I think if you look at purpose, you brought up the word Jeffrey, purpose before. If you have a purpose and your purpose is to touch lives, to have impact, to be of service to others, you know, then then it's more meaningful. Now, unfortunately, certain things in life don't seem to have that much purpose because if you're selling a product or a particular service, it may not look like it's not that important to humanity. Right? Yeah. And we gave you plenty of examples, but it's also how you interact with people. And mother Teresa, she's got so many incredible quotes. Right? But you can do ordinary things in an extraordinary way multiple times every day. So how do you interact with that that valet guy or the waiter or the waitress or, you know, how you treat somebody in an elevator or that that person that you meet that's the receptionist or a person that is just starting off their career.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:40:20]:
And so I think you can touch lives and have impact and have meaning and purpose by how you do things and who you do them with in almost any aspect of life. And if it's just about financial success, you get into what my friend, father Spitzer would talk about, and he calls it level 2 comparison game. He goes into the four levels of happiness. And, you know, level 1, happiness would be drinking something, eating something. Level 2 is ego power control. The problem there is he'll tell you it's a road to hell because it's insatiable at any level. But if you aim at level 3, the Jesuits would say men and women for others, success to significance, are you making a difference? That becomes more purposeful. And even, in the book, Man's Search for Meaning, the people at Auschwitz who were only worried about their own survival, those that happened to be fortunate to survive didn't do as well as those that really were helping other people.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:41:18]:
So what happens is the people that were living in level 3 and the people that put other people's interests and have the sense of humility that the beatitudes talk about, or Saint Thomas Aquinas talked about. Okay? Or Arthur Brooks' research at the Harvard Business School talks about, actually live longer, we're happier, and we're more successful. So it's actually a good thing and not a bad thing. It's good. And business is good. It's neutral. Now it could be bad at how you do business, how you interact with people. Right? So I think, I think business success is a is a good thing.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:41:52]:
And I think financial independence is okay too. Right? I think sometimes people feel guilty when they've been blessed with success. Now sometimes people are just fortunate. You know, you look at the right time, the right place, and, you know, the right era. I don't know if Bill Gates could start another Microsoft again today, or if Jeff Bezos could start up another Amazon today. You know, I mean, so sometimes it's the timing, the place. Sometimes someone makes an investment. You look at some of the people that were in Omaha, Nebraska, the person who just gave a $1,000,000,000 so people can have their tuitions paid.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:42:24]:
Her husband was an early investor of Warren Buffett and happened to meet him and happened to invest and happened to do so well. I so I don't know if that was all strategic. Sometimes being at the right place at the right time

Jeffrey Stern [00:42:36]:
It's a lot of luck.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:42:37]:
You know, there is a lot of randomness in life or just about how you meet your potential wife. You didn't go to one place. You may have not met that person. You didn't work at that one place. You didn't go to school at that one place. You didn't have someone introduce you to somebody, and it's just sometimes life is random. Now I don't know if it's in God's plan or not. I'm not sure how that all works.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:42:56]:
I can't say that I understand everything because I don't. I forgot what your question was now.

Jeffrey Stern [00:43:02]:
Whether or not we're playing the right game. But I I wanna ask you, we can maybe layer in philanthropy too because with the intentionality that you've approached investing and thinking about, you know, return on investment and and kind of the fundamentals of business, I'm curious if that kind of thinking at all permeates into how you think about philanthropy and the returns on giving. And and, Wayne, you know you know, you mentioned kind of the working on balance, but how do you weigh making a big impact for a few number of people versus kind of a ubiquitous problem that could have a lot more reach. What drives you in your philanthropic giving?

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:43:37]:
Well, it's it's a it's a good question, and it's something that is important to me. It's about, first of all, you have to have a passion and an interest. So so for instance, there are certain things I'm just not passionate about. It doesn't mean they're not good. But if I have the the choice of of doing something that is artsy, ballet is beautiful, opera is nice. Right?

Jeffrey Stern [00:43:58]:
Yeah.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:43:58]:
Or helping a child that may not live or that's sick or a parent that could lose a a child. To me, it's an easy decision between those. So I happen to be more passionate about children causes, but also I am passionate about those that are elderly and maybe have been forgotten because they're they're now on the other part of life, and and they're more vulnerable. So to me, it's about, am I making a difference? Am I having impact to get involved with something where you don't move the dial? That doesn't mean you can't get involved with something that's big if you can still have impact. But also, you know, are you going the right way? They kinda answered your question before. I think we all have to do some, reflection and saying, alright. Is this the right thing? If you're married someday, you'll find that your wife will kinda give you her opinion. They're not as impressed with you as you may think.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:44:46]:
Mhmm. And so sometimes you're getting the input of of a wife or your children or your real friends or some real advisors who have your best interests at heart, getting feedback from them. And sometimes it's hard to take because they may say, you know, your temper's a little bit out of control or your ego's a little out of control or boy, you're a little full of yourself here, Jeffrey, or you're a little so sometimes you you need someone to say that. Arthur Brooks likes to say you need some, useless friends. And I know that sounds terrible, but what he means by that is, what he refers to is real friends, not deal friend.

Jeffrey Stern [00:45:23]:
And

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:45:23]:
what often happens in life and business, you tend to become friendly with people you're working with or people you're doing business with. That's not a bad thing, by the way. It can be a great good thing.

Jeffrey Stern [00:45:30]:
Yep. But

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:45:31]:
also you need some people who are just gonna be your friends, and you're gonna be their friends just because you're friends. You know? There's friends for a reason. There's friends for a season, and sometimes there's friends for life, and we ask we go through progression. To me, it's about having impact. Are you making a difference? And are you passionate about it? If it's an area you're not interested in. So if you don't like ballet and you say, I I don't like I don't see, like, I don't see how that does good, and you say, well, it's beautiful. And some people, like, might not like art and say, I don't know how this helps society. This artwork.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:45:58]:
It's beautiful. Or and then what's beautiful? I mean, I look at some art, and I don't understand it. And people look at it, and then they say, well, it's beautiful. I I I I don't understand it. And I think it's nice. Don't get me wrong. It's it's not like harming anybody. Yeah.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:46:12]:
But again, if you got a an elderly person and they're they're being treated with some compassion at the end of their life or a sick child or a child that maybe or a person whose life so health care to me makes a big difference because I don't know anybody who doesn't run into health care problems with their friends, their family, their parents, their grandparents, themselves. Ultimately, it affects a 100%. It's not like a little issue. And and a lot of healthcare was originally started as a mission, right, to to to do good and take care of others, you know, that are sick or or or or suffering. And so it's it's hard for me to watch someone that suffers, someone that loses a loved one. And so those areas for me are more interesting because you're making a difference in in someone's life. Right? But sometimes it's hard to say, is it truly a charity or is this more of of a a community thing?

Jeffrey Stern [00:47:07]:
What what's your perspective on and I don't know if these are the only two approaches, but I recently read Rockefeller's biography. I've admired him very much as a as a Cleveland entrepreneur. And one thing I did not know about him, until I I went through it was the degree to what she was giving since he was in his teens. It wasn't just after he had created the the wealth that he did that he gave, he was giving his entire life. And I think that's maybe in contrast to someone like a Buffet who's thinking more, you know, I can, in my afterlife, contribute a lot more by having built, you know, this wealth that can be, you know, kind of allocated to to good stewards who who have the interest and passion to take on these these problems.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:47:52]:
Well, I I didn't obviously know Rockefeller. I'm not that old, and and and I didn't read that much, but I think he was a guy that was kind of faith filled.

Jeffrey Stern [00:48:01]:
He was.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:48:01]:
And and so I think that it that a lot of his philanthropy was something he must have been ingrained with, be the with his family or his upbringing or earlier than in life where he saw that he can make an impact. So I think in his case, he was probably be very much a philanthropist, which means lover of mankind. He had a human side and he may have looked at having enormous successes by be able to do more good and that Min Min, one of his his driving forces. I think some people, are ingrained with that where it's it's just it's cultural. I I know that I have certain friends that grew up in a certain culture, or or certain perhaps religion where or or a certain upbringing where the whole idea of helping somebody I've talked to a a Jewish friend of mine. He's gone now, and he grew up poor and his family was poor, but they always put a couple of pennies aside to help the poor people. He didn't realize he was one of the poor people, but but it was ingrained from his mother and his father and and and almsgiving. But it was ingrained, even though he was poor and his parents, you know, were very much blue collar.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:49:13]:
But, you know, he shared with me as a little boy, it was just ingrained to help somebody less fortunate than you. So I think in certain cultures or in certain families, it's it's kind of ingrained. In others, I think you learn it by seeing the good that others do, and it inspires you. And you also realize that people who are typically very generous and in very giving tend to be happier. I seem just in my opinion, there's probably some research on that because they get tremendous joy about the ability to do something for somebody else. You know, they get tremendous joy about giving and helping and doing something. It's just like, if you have somebody and you find a present for them, it could be something simple and you know, they really like it. It brings a tremendous amount of satisfaction that you made them smile and you made them happy.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:50:06]:
So sometimes you learn it from other people and because we all learn from others and you see things. You also learn what you don't like from others as well. But I think you can learn philanthropy through either higher upbringing, or you could see other examples of the impact like this recent gift this woman had given, which was $1,000,000,000 to basically endow, I think it was a medical school, right? And all these people that will have the burden taken away of borrowing money and, and, and having debts for years. And people say, wow. That is a wonderful thing that they were able to do and all the success and all this wealth. But I think that inspires some people. Now I think also at a certain time, I'm not sure when that happens. Probably doesn't happen when you're younger, and maybe it happens when you're older.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:50:51]:
I think at some point people realize, like you don't take anything. Everybody leaves a 100%.

Jeffrey Stern [00:50:56]:
Right. Oh, it

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:50:57]:
doesn't matter what the dollar amount is, right? Yeah. And so all of a sudden they're like, they can do some good for somebody else. And I think that brings tremendous joy when she asked her husband before he had passed away, he said, do whatever you think you would like to do. And I I think that will inspire others Yep. To to do good and say, boy, what a nice thing. And think about it. If everybody that was super, super successful could endow a nursing home so that all those people in that nursing home could be taken care of. Another person endows a grade school or a high school.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:51:31]:
Someone else endows a hospital, a school, a college, a hunger center, and you say, well, you not only do good today, you can do good for decades or or generations or centuries to come. Now you gotta be careful who's gonna manage that because, like, how far out can you go where you can predict, like, how something like that will happen? The the money she is giving to this endowment has to be invested prudently and wisely. And so it does what they're trying to do. And and that doesn't mean that's gonna happen because you're not gonna have much input, once it's gone and once you're gone. Right? But I think, examples, how you're living, and I can't underscore the importance, I think, of faith. When I look at the model of the state of Ohio, which very few people know of. You know what it is? I don't. Well, god, all things were possible.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:52:21]:
Right? And if you go back to our country earlier in the history of our country, faith in separation wasn't as much. It just it was kind of ingrained in, in families. It was more, and I think we've gotten a little bit away from that today. And I don't view that as a positive thing, by the way. I think that most things work better, with some sense of faith. One is the sense of humility. Let's say you're not the most powerful and you're not the center of the universe. Okay? There's somebody more powerful than you.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:52:53]:
So I think, we've gotten a little bit away from that. Not not everywhere, but but on the other hand, to to be a person of faith and not treat people with respect or kindness. And if you don't agree with somebody, that's okay. Yeah. I don't know why you have to find what divides somebody from somebody. Can't we find what binds something? You have a different political view, different view on a way of life, a different view on a perspective, who to say I'm right and you're wrong. So why can't we be friends and be respectful of your faith? What do I have to tell you? Your faith's wrong. My faith is right.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:53:27]:
I don't understand how anybody can think you can kill somebody in the name of religion and think that's a good thing. I don't get that. I don't think how people think terrorism is a good thing. I don't think how they think murder is a good thing. They're not called the 10 suggestions.

Jeffrey Stern [00:53:40]:
That's right.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:53:41]:
There are certain things that are are black and white and, you know, murder and stealing and cheating are wrong. Now sometimes people don't think what they're doing is wrong, and there are things sometimes in life that are perhaps gray. Right? But there are certain things that are black and white. What

Jeffrey Stern [00:53:58]:
topic or question do you wish I have asked you?

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:54:04]:
Well, I mean, the the recent article that I wrote that I spent all this enormous time with, the whole topic of happiness, where I've listened to hundreds of podcasts and watched videos, and I was doing what was referred to as me search. Me search. I also have learned because I am by nature, not a writer, but if I can write about something, which takes me an enormous amount of time in reflection and a lot of drafts. But if I can write and if I can share, and ultimately, if I can teach, then it's a way that I really learn.

Jeffrey Stern [00:54:38]:
Oh, for for me as well. It it galvanizes your thinking, trying to write.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:54:42]:
If you can write, share, and ultimately teach. Because to really teach it, you really have to know the material, you really then learn it. And so I just got almost obsessed with this topic. So, you know, we quoted Plato and Socrates and Aristotle and Warren Buffett and Oprah Winfrey and and Arthur Brooks who wrote this book, and he's a professor of this happiness topic at the Harvard Business School. But even to quote Thomas Aquinas, who is a brilliant theologian, but even Saint Augustine, I use one quote from him that I really like because if you study his history, he did not start off as a saint. Yep. He was quite the ladies' man. I I understood.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:55:20]:
I didn't know him. Obviously lived way before my time, but he did say something that I liked and I used in the article. You know, he said, every saint has a past and every sinner has a future. And and so if you think about it,

Jeffrey Stern [00:55:34]:
a

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:55:34]:
saint's anybody who ultimately makes it to heaven. So we're all called to become saints. Right? But not every person who ends up as a saint started off as a saint. They could, you know, like to drink too much, eat too much. They like the girls too much. Maybe they weren't as good of a business person or father or so forth. But the fact that a sinner has a future means that everybody can also turn their life around. And if they're doing something they shouldn't be doing, that they they can change that and improve that.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:56:02]:
So so it isn't like why blew it. Okay. You can't change what happened. It's done. Learn, reflect, and then move on. Yeah. You know, Ray Dalio shows these are little gems when you can have mistakes and and plus reflections. Right? But then what do you do going forward? So to me, that that topic was fascinating, And and, and every sentence was impactful because I wanted to cram as much as I could in there and ensure as much as I learned.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:56:29]:
But I've also selfishly was trying to learn it. Now living it is not as easy, right? Because, even saying if you get rid of all the things that make you unhappy, will you automatically be happy? Not necessarily. Because life is going to throw things at us that unfortunately, no matter what we do, you know, we're all works in progress, right?

Jeffrey Stern [00:56:52]:
Yeah, Absolutely.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:56:53]:
So the happiness thing, but I think we we addressed that and and and, a recent article we wrote, you need to be the CEO of yourself, and you need to find out that, you know, you gotta take the lead and and you can use other resources. But if you wait for the government to take care of you, you wait for the lawyer to take care of you, you wait for the doctor to take care of you, you gotta take the lead and then leverage those with more experience and knowledge, doctors or attorneys or architects or other people who have other talents and other experiences, but but you you gotta take ownership and you gotta take the lead. And and I would not be one to wait for someone else to do it for you.

Jeffrey Stern [00:57:29]:
Yeah. It it deeply resonates. And I think certainly plays into entrepreneurship kinda generally.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:57:36]:
Well, you hit all the points when you said, you know, interviewing all these entrepreneurs and all these business people, all the things that you saw in common. And you mentioned every one of those, that was me, every one of those things you mentioned that was that that's like I like, you you saw the pattern and it you didn't miss anything because that's pretty much you've seen that over and over and over again. And and when you mentioned them, I said, you got them.

Jeffrey Stern [00:58:00]:
Well, I'll maybe close it out then with with something that that you had mentioned just before we started recording, which is, you know, sometimes the the the right thing to do is is nothing. And sometimes you work really hard and it doesn't yield the the result maybe that that you thought it was going to. And how how do you know when you're doing the right work?

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:58:22]:
Well, in retrospect, you usually know going backwards. Sure. At the time, you really don't know because as I was mentioning to you, sometimes when I worked the hardest at some time, it had an adverse effect. Other times when I seem to have worked so little, but maybe made a good decision or a lucky decision or met somebody that we did something with, it just seemed to work. And I almost felt guilty, like, it almost seemed like it was too easy. Yeah. And other times you work so hard and you didn't seem to to get rewarded. It's not so easy when you're doing it.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:58:54]:
Right? It really isn't. I think it comes back to, if you're passionate about what you're doing, and you've had some success with what you're doing, and you're pretty good at what you're doing, you'll tend to do it better. And if you do that, then you're competing with people who maybe are less passionate and and not as good at something, so why not play to your strength? Why do you wanna play someone else's game that you're not good at, you don't have success in it. You don't really know what you're doing, and they really like what they're doing, and they're really good at it doing, and now you're competing with them. I why? You're starting off at a big disadvantage. That's a good question. Now at some point, you don't know anything about anything, so you gotta learn something. Right? But but I gotta tell you, when you use the concept of rational targeting, what you like, what you're good at, and what you're passionate about, then you're gonna have exponential success because you're you're in your zone, and you and and and you would do it because you like to do it.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [00:59:45]:
And then you tend to do well with it because you're, does it, it's not even like work. It's like, it's just like what you do. And I think that that makes things more enjoyable. And I think ultimately you probably have a little bit more success with it.

Jeffrey Stern [00:59:56]:
Yeah. Well, I think the second time around, it's probably hard to ask my traditional closing question because it's for your favorite hidden gems in Cleveland. And I don't know that yours have changed materially since the last time we spoke, but I it was it was to some effect of just kind of the whole city overall as a as an underrated existence, from local charities to the Cleveland Clinic to the lakefront and the nature around us. But I I guess the way I can reframe that question to to be interesting a second time around is what what do you wish more people appreciated or understood about Cleveland and its history and maybe where you think its its, prospects are?

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [01:00:41]:
I think our real hidden gem in Northeast Ohio and Cleveland are our people. And I think we underestimate that on a relative basis, we have really nice people here that tend to get along relatively better than Washington or other parts of the world. And I think, our diverse cultures and our diverse politics and our diverse nationalities and religions are a good thing. But I think, we really underestimate our people. And we have a lot of people from Northeast Ohio that friends of mine we went to grade school with, and we finally said, you know what? Some of these guys can go anywhere in the world and compete with anybody. And and we take our own people and and the, the uniqueness, but also how authentic and how genuine they are for granted. So our biggest asset in Northeast Ohio is we have really a wonderful group of really good people. We lead the world in some areas in philanthropy, you know, be it in the Catholic church or in the Jewish community or in health care or in some of the arts areas.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [01:01:44]:
Okay? Or be it United Way and in so many areas. So it's the people. Yeah. That that at the end of the day, that's our secret weapon, and it's our secret sauce.

Jeffrey Stern [01:01:52]:
Awesome. Well, with that, I just wanna thank you again for continuing the conversation.

Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group) [01:01:58]:
Alright, Jeffrey. Thank you for the opportunity to to share some ideas with you. I enjoyed it, and, all my best to you. Thank you