#173: Mitchell Vargo (Forward Hospitality Group) — The Business of Hospitality & Entertainment in Cleveland

-- AI-Generated Transcript --

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:00:00]:
It was his first time ever here and came over and did it to our to show him around Playhouse Square. And, you know, we went down to the flats, of course. I showed him all of our spaces. And he turned to me in the car. He's like, this is total opposite of what I would have imagined. I'm like, yeah. It's I go, it's it's a pretty cool place. It's not that bad.

Jeffrey Stern [00:00:27]:
Let's discover what people are building in the Greater Cleveland community. We are telling the stories of Northeast Ohio's exploring what people are building in Cleveland and throughout Northeast Ohio. I am your host, Jeffrey Stern, and today, I had the real pleasure of speaking with Mitchell Vargo, partner at the Forward Hospitality Group. Since its founding in 2015, the Cleveland based The breadth The breadth of concept spans forward. The large scale day and nightclub built on a shipyard in the East Flats with the quintessential Cleveland industrial backdrop, coined the Ibiza of the Midwest, and pulling some of the largest names from electronic dance music and beyond, like Rick Rossk, Deadmau5, Steve Aoki, Afrojack, and many more, also my personal favorite venue.

Jeffrey Stern [00:01:32]:
Across the spectrum, Forward has built out Goodnight John Boy, the seventies themed disco bar, Welcome to the Farm, a Nashville inspired country music bar, Shake It, a casual burger joint, and lots more. This conversation was a lot of fun. Mitch and I get to unpack the intersection of hospitality and entrepreneurship, the perception, branding, and evolution of Cleveland as a city, the business of nightlife itself, Mitch's path to this line of work and how he manages himself and others through it, and a whole lot more. So please enjoy my conversation with Mitch Vargo after a brief message from our sponsor. Lay of the Land is brought to you by John Carroll University's Boulder College of Business, widely recognized as one of the top business schools in the region. As we've heard time and time again from entrepreneurs here on Lay of the Land, many of whom are proud alumni of John Carroll University, in this ever changing world of business requires a dynamic and innovative mindset, deep understanding of emerging technologies and systems, strong ethics, leadership prowess, acute business acumen, all qualities nurtured through the Buhler College of Business. With 4 different MBA programs of study spanning professional, online, hybrid, and 1 year flexible, the Bowler College of Business provides flexible the most effective the most effective options for you including the ability to participate in an elective international study tour providing unparalleled opportunities to expand your global business knowledge by networking with local companies overseas and experiencing a new culture. The career impact of a bowler MBA is formative and will help prepare you for this future of business and get more out of your career.

Jeffrey Stern [00:03:20]:
To learn more about John Carroll University's bowler MBA programs, please go to business dotjcu.edu. The Buller College of Business is fully accredited by AACSB International. The highest accreditation College of Business can have. So I was thinking about where the the best place to start would be. And, traditionally, there's a closing question for the podcast, so we'll we'll get there down the line for Fair Playa Land, which is about hidden gems in Cleveland. And so we'll plant the seed and put a pin in that. We'll come back to it. And, you know, people throw out a lot of amazing ones.

Jeffrey Stern [00:03:54]:
I think, like, the classics are, you know, the metro parks and a lot of the restaurants and the food scene around Cleveland. But to me, I think forward is one of my favorite, you know, hidden gems because when you describe it to someone who isn't from Cleveland, much like the Metro Parks, actually, they're just, like, confounded by it. You know, that you can have this incredible outdoor venue right on the river, shrouded in this, like, industrial beauty with a freight train running in the background with world class talent. It just, like, doesn't compute for a lot of folks.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:04:27]:
It's definitely, one of its kind. That's for sure.

Jeffrey Stern [00:04:31]:
So for me, it's been just like a steward of world class experiences and a lot of great memories I've had here in Cleveland. So I I'm, you know, pumped to spread the word, but also just to understand more about how it and, you know, the whole organization works, how it's come to be, the history.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:04:45]:
Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:04:45]:
And so I I think this will be a lot of fun.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:04:48]:
Let's do it.

Jeffrey Stern [00:04:49]:
Amazing. So you mentioned this before we would turn on the mics here that, you know, everyone else in your family is in medicine.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:04:55]:
Yes. Yes. I am the black sheep.

Jeffrey Stern [00:04:58]:
Yeah. So so tell us a little bit about, you know, your upbringing, where you come from, and and, you know, this this deviation from from the, you know, maybe the path that that was set out.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:05:08]:
Yeah. Yeah. Of course. Well, again, thanks, you know, for having me. I'm I'm excited to be here and and, like you said, spread the word about our business and what we do and and how it's expanding. It's a, I think, great story. But yeah. So, you know, obviously, I was I was born and raised here in Cleveland, about 30 minutes east of the city in Kirtland Kirtland Hills.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:05:29]:
Yeah. Lived there basically my my whole childhood in that area. But, yeah. I'm one of 1 of 3 kids, the middle child. I have 2 sisters. One lives down in Texas, one's in Florida, who are both in the science, whether it's nutrition or veterinary sciences. They're both kind of in that that medicine realm of the world. Yeah.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:05:50]:
And then my my dad's a doctor, so he's in medicine. My mom's in physical therapy, so she's in in the same realm. So me kind of going into hospitality was a little kind of a curveball for everybody, but I think it's working out for the better. But, yeah. So, you know, I grew up here in Cleveland, went to college in Arizona, so I kind of did the polar opposite of what a lot of people here do. Yeah. I didn't really feel the need to stay in Ohio and do Ohio State or Miami of Ohio. Nothing at all against people that went there or those schools or anything.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:06:26]:
I just wanted something different. That was simply it. So I went to school, Arizona, University of Arizona in Tucson for 4 years. Graduated from the Eller College of Management with a major in marketing and a minor in finance. Mhmm. Kind of wanted to go into the finance realm of business when I entered college and quickly realized that it was not something I was gonna enjoy long term. Mhmm. So kinda the pathway into the whole hospitality thing, long story short, was, you know, that could be a whole podcast itself, I'm sure.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:07:02]:
But it was more so I I took an internship going into my senior year of college. I had to do an internship for for capstone credit. And I took an internship in hospitality simply because I I didn't wanna go into finance. And I only got into one finance internship in New York, and it was great, but I I turned it down without really consulting my parents or or anything, which at the time, they thought I was insane. But, again, I think, you know, I told them I'd work to make sure that it wasn't a poor decision. Yeah. Yeah. And then fell in love with with the industry and more so what it's what it's about and what it entails, which, you know, we'll get into building kind of like an ecosystem.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:07:48]:
Hospitality to me is lifestyle, right? It's not just where you're sitting down to get lunch or where you're going to get dinner or drinks or going to party or whatever. It's the whole thing of yes, where you're eating, yes, where you're partying, yes, where you're going to get coffee, hotels. I think health is a big part of it. So whether it's a health club, a gym, aesthetics, med spas are, like, the biggest thing right now. So I think it kind of encompasses all of that. Yeah. And and that's kind of my outlook on on the industry moving forward.

Jeffrey Stern [00:08:20]:
Yeah. So having kind of deviated, you know, and and found a a love, appreciation, interest, passion for hospitality, how do you begin to work through, you know, the kinda entrepreneurial path from there of, you know alright. So this this field resonates in a way that that you know, with with yourself. You know, from there, how does, how does it come together?

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:08:44]:
Yeah. So, you know, when I when I came back to Cleveland, I, you know, in hospitality, the one thing that is no secret, you know, you've gotta start from the bottom. You know, you gotta know how to do every job.

Jeffrey Stern [00:08:59]:
Yep. Yep.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:09:00]:
So when I started in hospitality, I mean, I was working at, like, the door at a club. I was making, like, $10 an hour at the time. It was it was a great experience, but it's it's not going to put food on the table or pay your bills, especially sustainability long term, right? So, you know, I had a job in finance for like 6 months, ended up getting laid off due to COVID and stuff, but it ended up being the best thing that ever happened to me. And I kind of took that time. COVID was actually really great for me for two reasons. 1, I got to spend a lot of time with my family, which was awesome. Yeah. But 2, really because it gave me that outlook on like, okay, I have this time to sit down, look forward.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:09:47]:
When we get out of this, what do I want to do, and how am I going to position myself to make sure I'm successful? Right. So I kind of made this, like, roadmap and and it started off as just, like, me thinking about it, and then I I put it on a piece of paper and I'd revisit it for weeks weeks weeks. And then an opportunity ended up coming along with, you know, the company I'm with with Forward that I thought was the right step at the time to to be able to get in, continue to learn, you know, operations, marketing, the finance side behind, you know, the hospitality business. Yeah. And then, you know, kind of just build it from there as far as is not only your personal brand, but, you know, you gotta let people know that you're there for them. You can take care of them, and and that's the the whole thing that's so awesome about the industry is being able to, you know, help people. And they come to you to celebrate these milestones in their life. And and being able to have such a dramatic effect on some of that is a really cool feeling.

Jeffrey Stern [00:10:45]:
Yeah. Yeah. No. It it it certainly is having experienced it from the other side of it. You know, if people come to to those places for special, you know, experiences. I wanna do a little bit of of stage setting, you know, just at the highest level to lay out what FORWARD is.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:11:02]:
Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:11:02]:
A little bit of the the history of the organization, the evolution of, I think, Cleveland itself in, in relation to it, which I I think is more relevant than than it is for for these kinds of conversations and just, you know, your your kind of whole experience through it. So to kick us off on that, you know, at the highest level, what is is forward?

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:11:23]:
Yeah. So, you know, I would say forward is, you know, we're we're forward hospitality group, but kind of deviating back to that lifestyle component, I think that's what we're transitioning more into. The company started really back in 2015 was when they were like public debut type stuff. You know, I was graduating high school in 2015. So, you know, through my lens, I think the catapult of the growth and the different concepts really started after COVID. You know, since since COVID, we've launched like 4 new brands with a couple ones that we have not announced yet coming online in the next 12 to 14 months. So, you know, I think it's a lifestyle company that is right now really ingrained in hospitality from the nightlife side, but also the food and beverage side. So, you know, we obviously Cleveland being our HQ.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:12:26]:
We're currently in Cleveland, Saint Petersburg, Florida, Chicago, Columbus, soon to be Miami. Recently, we signed a lease in San Diego that is public, but what we're not the concept we're gonna do is not public. Mhmm. You know? And then again, just more stuff coming online that that is not announced. So, you know, we have forward, obviously, the mothership of the whole company. Yeah. 20,000 square foot, fully outdoor, open air, dayclub, nightclub experience here in Cleveland. Like you said, it's it's right on the water.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:13:02]:
It's built out of old shipping containers. The inside is, you know, modernized with a pool and 36 tables, and you have room for, you know, 850 plus guests. It's a pretty pretty special space and obviously features

Jeffrey Stern [00:13:17]:
some

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:13:17]:
of the biggest talent in the world. Mhmm. Right across the street, we have goodnight John Boy, which is our, you know, kinda seventies throwback disco themed club. The whole shtick is we kinda say it's like when when we were growing up. It's like our grandma's basement. Yeah. Yeah. You know, so it's got it.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:13:32]:
It's got LED dance floor and, obviously, huge disco ball and shag carpet and cocktails, you know, themed around around that that era. We have a few of those. We have another one in Columbus, one of our unit in Chicago is a John Boy and we have one in St. Pete. A couple of them do have food components, so that that food component is kind of like the cocktail one where it's kind of geared around that era. Yep. Welcome to the Farm, which, you know, here in Cleveland is also right across the street, kind of catty corner to each other. That's like our our live music Nashville style bar.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:14:07]:
Chase Rice is our partner on that. It's exactly what you think you'd get on Broadway. 2 huge bars, a big giant dance floor, a few tables for bottle service, live music every night. That venue has a pretty cool, like, barbecue esque component to it. So we we do a lot of, not only a la carte barbecue, but smash burgers, fried chicken sandwiches. We do a brunch for for Brown's games that incorporates mimosas and some really fun items. And then upstairs in Cleveland and then soon to be in Saint Petersburg, we've announced it. Yeah.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:14:42]:
Yeah. We have the glamper concept, which is kind of, you know, the the shtick of, like, it's a really fun backyard cookout party. So, again, food component at both of those. They kinda are geared around that. It's more so burgers, a lot of dips. We have some fun items coming on for that that are gonna kinda be, like, the the hook items at those units. And then just a really approachable cocktail program there. And then, of course, as all of our venues, bottle service is available if you do want it.

Jeffrey Stern [00:15:16]:
Yes. Yes.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:15:17]:
Yes. So Wow. Yeah. So that's what we have online right now. We just, literally this morning on my way here at 11:30, we announced shiso down in Miami is coming online. That's gonna be a massive food and beverage operation. Chef Raheem Seeley down there. He's a he's a massive, very influential barbecue down in down in Miami.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:15:38]:
So he's gonna be our partner down there, heading the food. That's coming online here in the next 6 months, which is gonna be awesome.

Jeffrey Stern [00:15:45]:
Very exciting.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:15:46]:
Yeah. And then a couple other things that we haven't announced yet.

Jeffrey Stern [00:15:49]:
Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. So with this kind of, you know, eclectic breadth of portfolio offerings that you have, if you will, I'd be curious from the kind of entrepreneurship standpoint, you know, grounding it in, you know, what is the the problem to be solved? And and understanding a bit, you know, back in in in its origins in, you know, around 2015 or so, like, what is the state of of nightlife in Cleveland? How has it evolved over time? You know, how is the the opportunity for this really, you know, diverse set of offerings,

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:16:25]:
you

Jeffrey Stern [00:16:25]:
know, conceived of, thought about, the inspiration, motivation to kinda realize, you know, a decade later, this kind of awesome set of experiences?

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:16:37]:
Yeah. I think, you know, forward's kind of in its own silo. The thing that really influenced that space was at day life. Mhmm. Right? So, you know, in in markets like Vegas, in Miami, you started to see a lot of these, you know, clubs pop up. But instead of being open from 9 PM at night till 2, 3 in the morning, They were doing parties from 1 PM till 7 PM. And you you saw a whole, wouldn't say a different crowd, but a lot larger slice of the pie of the older, more, you know, young professional, but maybe married with kids going out because they were able to because it was during the day rather than at night. Right? Yeah.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:17:18]:
Yeah. So, you know, my partners kinda saw

Jeffrey Stern [00:17:19]:
that

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:17:23]:
evolving a lot elsewhere and and wanted to bring it to Cleveland. It was definitely before its time, for sure. And everyone thought they were crazy. And then, you know, the other concepts, I think, you know, each of them has its own kind of reason why we did it. You know, the farm, for example, right? We saw that a lot of people from Cleveland Everyone's going to Nashville. Bachelor, bachelorette, birthdays, week, girls weekend, boys weekend, whatever. Oh, yeah. Nashville's like the spot.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:17:55]:
Right? So if if people are spending money to go from Cleveland to Nashville and they're flying there and then they're spending money on a hotel or on an Airbnb and then they're going out to these bars, Some of them you have to pay a cover. Some of them you don't. There's an opportunity for that in Cleveland. Right?

Jeffrey Stern [00:18:10]:
Absolutely.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:18:11]:
So, you know, that kind of came along and, you know, some sometimes a space falls into our lap, and we have to figure out how to make it work. But that's the beauty of it. You have to know what what the market wants and you have to deliver on it. Sometimes we've done things that maybe haven't been as successful, and the great thing about it is we've learned you pivot fast and, you know, you turn it around to make it a win. Mhmm. I think that's a that's a big part of it.

Jeffrey Stern [00:18:39]:
How would you describe the the state of of hospitality and and nightlife in Cleveland? And and how has it evolved over time?

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:18:46]:
How would I describe it? I think it right now, it's still a very approachable thing. Yeah. The Cleveland market I mean, it's it's no secret that it's not as seasoned as as in New York or in LA, Miami. You know, one of the one of the things that we're seeing in a lot of the big cities that I I hope will eventually evolve to Cleveland, and I think it has to a degree, but I don't think it's fully blossomed, is kind of the vibe dining aspect, right? So, you're starting to see people don't want to go to dinner and then get in an Uber and go to a club, right? Or go to a bar or whatever it is. They wanna go somewhere where they can get dinner, they can sit down, they can get cocktails, and it kind of creates more of a vibrant atmosphere after dinner, where they can just stay and do exactly what they were gonna do elsewhere there. It's it's just easy access. Right?

Jeffrey Stern [00:19:38]:
Comprehensive experience.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:19:40]:
Exactly. I I definitely think people are getting into it in Cleveland, and there's there's spots that just have awesome, awesome vibes that, you know, everyone likes to go for that specific reason. But I think it's still very approachable. A lot of the the places that you see that are consistently packed have something for everyone. It's not anything like you would see in some of these big cities. There's not a lot of places that are super hard to get into or places that charge a crazy, crazy cover at the door. And so I think it's a pretty approachable market, for sure, but definitely definitely evolving.

Jeffrey Stern [00:20:16]:
Yeah. And so, you know, with that kind of backdrop and and context, I'm curious, what what is the pitch like when you're thinking about, you know and and, obviously, you've you've figured it out because you're able to attract, I think, you know, the best kind of talent in the world to come to forward and and do these shows.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:20:36]:
It's not easy.

Jeffrey Stern [00:20:36]:
What what what what are folks' perceptions about Cleveland, and I'm sure all the things you have to dispel about those

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:20:43]:
Oh my god. I have stories for days about this. You know, when when we reach out so my my partner, Dante Deanna, he started booking, you know, forward right when it opened back in 2015. So he's been a major part at kind of cultivating those relationships and working with with buyers and agents. And he's kind of in that world too where he is he's a DJ himself. He's involved in Barstool, so he has his hands in a, in a ton of things. You know, and I obviously came into the mix a couple years ago on, on that front. It's not easy.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:21:17]:
You know, some some of these some of these DJs, when they hear or see Cleveland Yeah. Yeah. And they've never been here. Right? You know, we've we've gotten some pretty funny responses. I mean, totally honest, some people just pass. They don't care how much money it is. They don't care they just say pass. You know, we're we're good.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:21:36]:
A lot of the times, you know, now we have a comprehensive deck with our marketing, our end of the year videos, recap videos from previous years, 4th July or, you know, whatever it is that we send over. And now that we've kind of built this rolodex of talent, a lot of people, basically, you know, everyone will entertain it at least now because if you get so and so to play your venue, then it it's a credibility thing. Yeah. Yeah. But it it, you know, definitely was definitely was not easy.

Jeffrey Stern [00:22:04]:
Yeah. No. I'd be I have been curious just, like, what what that how that pitch, you know, transpires because I think about it probably in a slightly different context through, you know, founders and and entrepreneurship. But, you know, just like the whole pitch for for Cleveland and, like, you know and particularly with with a hidden gem like the one you have.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:22:24]:
You know, they they love it when they when they come here. I mean, we you know, last 4th July, we had Dom Dhalla. And, you know, he he was the best to work with. And I remember he we we walked him in the back of the venue. Place is packed. You know, it's 80 degrees outside, which which was which is great. And we we walked out of our, like, green room that, you know, we have, and we walk up the stairs. And he gets to the top of the stairs, and he just stopped and did, like, a double take.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:22:52]:
And he was like, holy shit. This like, the place was you know, he's like, this is nuts. So when you tell we've kinda shifted it because when people hear there's a, you know, outdoor nightclub in Cleveland, Ohio that has a 1,000 cap on it, and they they wanna pay you to come play. It's like, what? It's like, is this is this even real? So, yeah, you know, we just we kinda let our marketing deck and and videos speak for themselves.

Jeffrey Stern [00:23:19]:
Yep. What what do you feel are the biggest misconceptions people have, you know, maybe both about hospitality and and nightlife in Cleveland, but also, you know, the nature of of the work that that you do?

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:23:33]:
Definitely some misconceptions. I think I think the first one is you get paid to party. I'm like I mean, I've been hearing it for years. I'm like, you know, it used to bother me a lot. It doesn't bother me anymore because I I I don't. You know, I barely, barely drink anymore. I tell everyone in hospitality, obviously, if you want to be successful, stay away from drugs. Don't touch drugs.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:23:57]:
I mean, I don't smoke. I don't vape. I don't do any of that stuff. Yeah. So, you know, one of the biggest misconceptions, it's that it's just you get paid to party. I would say 80% of the work I do is during the day or, you know, during the week when we're closed or during the day before we open, right? Any manager or someone that comes into the company that I interact with on a training basis, I tell everyone 80% of it's prep. If you're prepped for the night and and you know that, you know, you're staffed up, your tables are confirmed, you're good on tickets, you know, your product is in the house, and and everything's lining up. And then obviously with forward, you know, your talent's in town, they have their hotel, and all the entire checklist has gone through, you're going to have a successful life.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:24:46]:
Stuff of course pops up that you can't mimic in any sort of way because you're dealing with a large crowd that is consuming alcohol and other things, unfortunately, but it's the nature of the business. So I think that the first one is, you know, oh, you know, you just you just get paid to party. Totally false. I just turn a blind eye to it because it's whatever. And I think, you know, again, getting back to your thing about convincing these people to come to Cleveland, I think this I don't think it just has to do with hospitality. I think it's the city. Yep. And, you know, the Forbes Summit was a was a big kinda showcase for this.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:25:23]:
I think there's just a lot more here, and the city's a lot more vibrant than people think. You know, everyone thinks that Cleveland who's never been here, is just like this dump on the water in Ohio. And then they they come here, and when they actually experience the people here and they walk around the city and they see that the weather's not always absolutely horrible and it's, you know, the the ease of of getting around, and it it's it's a pretty cool thing. You know, I just 2 nights ago, my, one of my buddies from from Boston, who I hadn't seen in like 4 years from from college, text me. He's like, hey. I'm in he's like, you in Cleveland?

Jeffrey Stern [00:26:05]:
Yeah. Of course.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:26:05]:
I'm like,

Jeffrey Stern [00:26:06]:
what's up?

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:26:07]:
He goes, I just landed. What are you up to? I'm like, what? He's involved in real estate development, so he's doing a project here. And it's his first time ever here. And I I he came over and he did it to I showed him around Playhouse Square and Yeah. Yeah. Went down to the flats, of course. I showed him all of our spaces. And he turned to me in the car.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:26:25]:
He's like, this is total opposite of what I would have imagined.

Jeffrey Stern [00:26:29]:
I'm like, yeah. It's I go, it's it's a pretty cool place. Yeah. It's not that bad. It's not that bad. I I found it's, for folks, probably the most pleasantly surprising place that they have been to.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:26:41]:
Everyone that I knew that was here for the summit from out of town said the same thing. It's way cleaner than they expected. The people are super nice. The food scene is awesome. I'm like, you guys just gotta give it a shot. You know? Just give it a shot.

Jeffrey Stern [00:26:56]:
Give it a shot. Yep. So when so when y'all are, you know, conceptualizing some of of these places that ultimately have come to fruition, like, you know, Glampr, for example, I'm curious from, you know, the business side of it and advanced strategy, you know, how what was the kind of diligence that's done in advance of a launch? How do you, kinda, like, test the market? You know, obviously, at a high level, you know, I can totally understand how something like a Nashville vibe can resonate, you know, here. But, like, what what does it actually look like in advance of, you know, putting one of these concepts together and and actually launching it, you know, from, kinda, soup to nuts, what what it all looks like?

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:27:36]:
Yeah. I think, you know, the first thing that we kinda look at is, do you have a space first? Yeah. Because part of it, you know, typically you have a great concept, you find a space for it. Sometimes you have a space and you have to figure out what concept to put there. That's the harder one. Because if you go into something, you know exactly what it is, you know exactly what type of drinks you're gonna serve, the food, the vibe you want, the the layout. It's way easier to go to a broker, find a space, and and execute on it. Right? Someone gives you a space and just says, Make it work.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:28:11]:
That's the more difficult one. So, you know, we typically we get in a room. We have a conference room at our home office. And like you said, first, we kind of just talk about what's working right now. Right? Do we want this to be more food and beverage based? Do we want it to be more nightlife based? Depending on what we decide, what is working, what is working in other markets, we we look a lot at Columbus, Chicago, Detroit, Pittsburgh, you know, the the surrounding areas. We're not gonna go to LA and find something working in LA and try to bring it to Cleveland because it probably wouldn't work. You know, so we sit down and and we don't worry yet about name or or any of that. We kind of develop, okay, how do we want this place to feel? We get kind of the textures and tones of of colors and and the visual side of it, and we build everything around that.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:29:04]:
We build, you know, the furniture, the aesthetic, the food menu, the cocktails. And typically, for us, the the name is one of the last things. Mhmm. It's very rare that we go into something with a name and build everything around that. It's happened, but it's not something that we typically do. So kinda assess what's working in other markets that that we would look at it as comparable. You know, like you said, Nashville, that's literally what we did for the farm. We found the space and and built everything around that.

Jeffrey Stern [00:29:40]:
Lay of the Land is brought to you by Impact Architects and by 90. As we share the stories of entrepreneurs building incredible organizations in Cleveland and throughout Northeast Ohio, Impact Architects has helped 100 of those leaders, many of whom we have heard from as guests on this very podcast, realize their own visions and build these great organizations. I believe in Impact Architects and the people behind it so much that I have actually joined them personally in their mission to help leaders gain focus, align together, and thrive by doing what they love. If you 2 are trying to build great, Impact Architects is offering to sit down with you for a free consultation or Architects or by Architects or by leveraging 90 to power your own business, please go to ia.layoftheland.fm. The link will also be in our show notes. And then you you mentioned also kind of, you know, varying degrees of success of of projects that that you've taken on, you know, where things on that spectrum are more on the side of maybe it's not going as well as as you would have liked. What does that kind of assessment look like? How do you pivot? How do you kinda, like, turn the ship towards, you know, where ultimately you would like for it to be when and when it's it's not quite, you know, as a success out of the gate as you would have liked.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:31:09]:
Yeah. I think, you know, obviously, someone you know, in hospitality, sometimes, you know, even stuff that's profitable isn't necessarily a great success. Right? You know, perfect example, you know, one of the one of the biggest things that we've learned is like, 1, I hate to use the word failing because failing, you get all these negative connotations of it's not profitable, it has a horrible reputation, it you know, one venue that needs a ton of attention is more of a time suck for us Yeah. Than 4 or 5 places that are just crushing it. So for us, it's it's deviating our time to that because it takes away from the things that we have that are successful in the company. And we don't want those to obviously fall off the edge. Right? So, you know, perfect example, we had a space in Shaker Heights. We had it for for a couple years, and we we opened a restaurant with with a chef that was here in Cleveland.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:32:10]:
This was pre COVID. It ended up not making it through COVID due to some a lot of things on that were totally out of our hands. Yeah. So, you know, we saw the space. We pivoted. We saw that the the market hall across the street was just crushing it. Yeah. You know, Very approachable, lot of business hours launched, and and we wanted to mimic that.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:32:32]:
We did a fast casual burger spot. It was burgers, chicken fingers. We had some salads, milkshakes, something that you could go get a quick business lunch at. It was approachable from the side of the food, the price point, and also something that, you know, you could get dinner with your family. Yeah. Because there's a lot of families in that area. Unfortunately, we just we just weren't able to make it work. You know, it's not that the venue was just, like, an absolute pit of, you know, burning money because it because it wasn't.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:33:04]:
But it was such a time suck for us to get just a tiny bit of juice out of that. It just came to the point where we just ended up having to let go of the space. And that's the beauty of hospitality. I mean, sometimes other people can make a space work that you can't and vice versa. Sometimes we can make a space work that other people can't. I mean, it's the nature of the business. So, I think the biggest thing about noticing how to pivot Yep. And, you know, noticing maybe a project isn't as successful as you would like it to be after trying a few things and realizing that your time is being spent there when it could be spent at the places that are really producing or even going to scale those business units, find something new, to start a new concept that you think is going to work or you, you know, something like that.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:33:53]:
That's the biggest thing for us is the time because Yeah. It takes a lot out of you, and there's only so many of us.

Jeffrey Stern [00:34:00]:
No. It makes a lot of sense. I mean, typically, I think about it, you know, from a a product management standpoint, you know, which there's interestingly a lot of parallels, but, you know, you you experiment, and then ultimately, you you double down on the things that are working, and you you you try and figure out how to spend less time on the things that are not.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:34:16]:
There you go. It's a it's scale efficiently.

Jeffrey Stern [00:34:18]:
Yeah. Well, so so over time, as Ford has kind of, call it, widened the aperture to, you know, think more holistically about, you know, not just geography as you guys expanded, but also, you know, maybe lifestyle overall.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:34:31]:
Mhmm.

Jeffrey Stern [00:34:32]:
Tell us a little bit about, you know, the vision. What is Ford Hospitality Group look like tomorrow, and and what is what is the kind of vision for it?

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:34:41]:
Yeah. I think, you know, kind of what it looks like tomorrow, right now, we're really working on scaling the John Boy business units and and the Welcome to the Farm business units. I think those are kind of our 2 concepts that are they're performing great, but they work in a lot of markets because it's very approachable and it's something that everybody wants. And we've seen that because we have more than one of each business unit in different markets. So that's kind of what we're focused on right now. I think kind of down the line, 1 year, 3 years, 5 years, you know, it's always a moving target. I've learned that stuff in this, you know, industry moves so fast and deals come your way that you never thought would come your way and deals that you thought were gonna be be a smash success end up falling through, and they don't even happen. But I think that the overall picture of it, like you said, is kinda focusing more on that lifestyle component.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:35:37]:
And, you know, I hope one day down the line I mean, I hope we can have, you know, 50 plus operating venues of multiple different concepts. I personally would love to get into the hotel side of things. I'm really into the health club side of things, aesthetics, that whole kind of, like I said at the beginning, hospitality and lifestyle. So whether that happens, I don't know. But that's kind of the dream world, right, is to when you go to whether it's Cleveland or Saint Pete or, you know, we're gonna be in Miami soon, like, come have dinner with us, go blow off some steam at one of our bars or clubs, and and we kind of have that ecosystem of of all the places you go to. We're we're providing you with that experience because you know that you're gonna get something that's not only consistent, but something that's great and memorable and worth your money.

Jeffrey Stern [00:36:34]:
Yeah. Yeah. Going a a a level deeper on that one, knowing a lot of this, as you mentioned, is kind of like a moving target, how do you think about what success ultimately means? And, like, in retrospect, what is the the kind of impact you would like to have? And and just underlying all of that, what what motivates you, just personally?

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:36:55]:
Yeah. I think, you know, success is a is a funny word, right? Because I think I truly believe if you lined 50 people up on the wall and you said, what does success mean to you? You'd probably get 50 different answers. I'm sure there would be a ton of overlap between a lot of them, but success has different meaning to every single person. You know, from an impact side and success side, I don't focus on money. That's not, you know, I think when a lot of people hear success, they think money or you want to have a ton of it's not about that. I mean, I think I'm doing what I know that I'm good at and I'm doing what I know that I can continue to be good at and get better at over a long period of time. So I think it's more so, you know, being able to not only get better at hospitality and and the lifestyle side of things, but just being happy and doing what I wanna do with the people I wanna do it with. From an impact side, I mean, I hope to build one of the biggest hospitality groups in not only the country but the world.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:38:04]:
I mean, you know, international expansion is definitely on the list for us. And it it it's something that I think, you know, my partners and I are are extremely aligned on is that we're all kind of on the same path and we wanna build the same hospitality group of just this mega house of different concepts. It's not going to be easy and it's not going to happen overnight, but, you know, leaving kind of an everlasting impact on the industry and you build a concept that lasts 25, 30 years or whatever, which is which is the goal, of course, that I think is is big on the impact part. And then success, like I said, just kinda continuing to do what I love and doing it with the people that I love. And, you know, I say it all the time, one of the biggest things that I say from a success side right now is just simply the fact that I get up every morning at 27 years old, and I can say that I love my job because I have a lot of friends that don't. So to me, that's that's one of the biggest blessings I have, and I think that that contributes to that whole factor.

Jeffrey Stern [00:39:11]:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, to the degree that you can work on something that is of value to other people, that that you love, that can support you, it's kinda at the

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:39:19]:
Serving others, man. It's it's the most special thing. It really is.

Jeffrey Stern [00:39:23]:
Yep. Well, selfishly, you know, I would love for you to to realize this vision that you have for, you know, building forward to to what you want it to be because I I kinda just love the idea of having Cleveland, you know, at the center of of something at that global stage. What in your mind is the role of Cleveland in all this and kinda the the future that you see for for the city and forward's impact within it?

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:39:50]:
Yeah. I think, you know, Cleveland is is gonna be a great HQ for us. I mean, it has been, but it it still will be because, you know, kind of on, like, the funny side, you know, when people hear that we're from Cleveland, it's, you know, like you said. Same thing with the DJs. They kinda turn a blind eye. They don't really take you seriously. But I think that down the line, you know, we can really show, which I think we've already started to, that you can build something out of a place where maybe there's not as much infrastructure and and business opportunity as there isn't in New York or LA, and you're not, you know, coming out of one of these big hubs with some venture capitalist or, you know, guy behind you with $10,000,000 and you're kinda just making it happen. You know, really thinking out these concepts.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:40:41]:
I mean, majority of our of our people who invest are are local. They're all Cleveland people. It's We like to keep it within our, you know, the circle. So I think that showing that you can really build something out of a city like Cleveland that hopefully will continue to grow and prosper and get, I hate to say a better reputation, but, you know, you you get what I'm saying. Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:41:05]:
Yeah. Well, you know, it's like, to me, you kinda scale the experiences that you're you're offering already, and you can. It just takes someone to to experience them, to, like, change their hearts and and minds about it.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:41:17]:
Tons. Tons. One of the best things ever is is when I talk to people who who come to our places, and they just talk about how great of an experience they had. And whether, like I said, it was a birthday or a bachelorette or whatever it was, how to be such a dramatic to have such a dramatic effect on that. And people are like, Oh, you know, I've never seen this DJ before and I came to Forward and I had the best time ever. Like we said, I I absolutely love country music and now I don't have to get on a plane and go to Nashville. I can just come down to the flats and go to the farm. It's a special thing, but it's also a really cool feeling to have that impact.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:41:55]:
I think, you know, we all love helping people and and giving people that experience, so it kind of ties hand in hand.

Jeffrey Stern [00:42:03]:
Yeah. What have been the the biggest, you know, lessons learned along the way for you, kind of the the earned wisdom? You know, it sounded like as a younger person, you you maybe didn't even envision that you would be in the world of hospitality. So

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:42:18]:
Don't put all your eggs into one basket. That is something I've learned, in hospitality and out of hospitality. Just kind of my whole roadmap into this. I used to be like I used to focus in on one thing and, like, this is what I want and this is what I'm going to do. And in certain cases, you y'all you gotta have a plan b. You gotta have a plan b. That's for sure.

Jeffrey Stern [00:42:40]:
Yeah. And, you know, this is is maybe the flip side to misconceptions people have. But what do you wish more people understood about the work that you do and the challenges specifically of of hospitality as a business?

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:42:54]:
I think a lot of one of the biggest things that people hear from the outside is, you know, it definitely takes some balance to be able to do it. That's the first thing. You know, people think that it's just, like, 10 PM to to 2 AM. And I show up at 10 PM, and I'm out of there by midnight or what you know, whatever it is. It's so I think that, a, it's 247, 365. You never shut it off. But but going hand in hand with that is what it's really helped me do for the better is create this work life balance. You gotta create boundaries, which ultimately create a healthy lifestyle.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:43:35]:
I am undoubtedly selfish about, like, my morning routine. Mhmm. I always need to make sure that, like, you know, I get up, I have my protein, I I do my workout, get get in the cold plunge, you know, do my my my red light therapy. I mean, that's what what keeps me going to be able to do this and and stay healthy. So staying healthy is a huge part of it, and I don't think a lot of people understand that because you see a lot of people enter this industry, unfortunately, for fun. And they don't last a very long time.

Jeffrey Stern [00:44:07]:
Well, it's gotta be fun too.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:44:08]:
It's it's definitely fun. It's definitely fun, but the wrong type of fun, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Trust me. I have the best job in the world. It's so much fun.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:44:17]:
I get to brush shoulders with some of the coolest people and have conversations with people that I never thought I would be able to. But, you know, again, you need to stay healthy. And I think a lot of people don't understand that it's, it's 247. It's not your typical 9 to 5 and then you go home after work. You're constantly going. Sometimes more than others, but it's you always got to have it turned on. Yeah. Work life balance.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:44:43]:
It's something I've been teeter tottering with for a while. You know, just like running any it's not just hospitality. It's just like running any business. Stress is a big part of it. You gotta know how to manage it, or else it'll it'll eat you alive.

Jeffrey Stern [00:44:58]:
Yep. How do you, kinda weigh your partners and, like, the the different sets of responsibilities and how you guys kinda balance each other and and kind of hear your own personal areas of competency.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:45:11]:
Yeah. It's a it's a very interesting dynamic because I'm I'm the youngest one by a long shot. I mean, my my partners are older. They're married and have kids and and, you know, so it's a very interesting dynamic. Right?

Jeffrey Stern [00:45:25]:
Yeah.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:45:25]:
But I think that, you know, I know we were talking about it before we turned on on the mics, but, you know, we operate on EOS Yeah. Which helps us a lot. Being able to have very clear accountabilities and and who does what and when they're gonna do it, and we holding each other accountable with, you know, to do lists and and setting goals for the week and the quarter and and keeping a scorecard and and tracking all of our results. That's one of the big things for us is is making everything measurable. Right? We say, well, how is that measurable? How are we gonna measure it? How do we know it's working? And we we build it off that. So, you know, kinda how we weigh each other, obviously, is, you know, I'm more so the, like, boots on the ground operations, you know, guy here in Cleveland. You know, I'm I'm involved in in some of the other concepts, but, obviously, I can't be in 2 places at once. Yeah.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:46:17]:
Yeah. But, really, you know, Cleveland, I mean, this is my HQ. It's my home base. It's it's where I am. You know? And we we have another partner of mine, Dante. He's the one in Chicago. Although he sees was in Columbus, he's down in Miami. You know? And then we have, you know, Bobby who handles kind of the investor side of things, and he's kind of the the chief, you know, operations guy, really overseeing a lot of the things over multiple markets.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:46:42]:
And then Michael as well, he's kind of the the we use the word visionary in EOS, so he's kind of the one that's constantly on a plane and scout new locations. And, you know, we're constantly talking daily in these group chats, what's working, what's not, where do we wanna look about, you know, certain spaces we have looked at and stuff like that.

Jeffrey Stern [00:47:03]:
Yeah.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:47:04]:
Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:47:04]:
No. That's that's fun. Are there any parts of the business, your own journey, that you feel are particularly salient or important that that we haven't talked about that you would wanna kinda bring forth to this whole discussion?

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:47:20]:
Nothing specific comes to mind. You know, I think it's it's just I tell people, if you wanna get into a hotel, you have to have the work ethic. Mhmm. But, again, it's it's parallel to a lot of things in business. You know, if you want to build anything to have any sort of relevance and and be able to make an impact on a customer, an industry, or, you know, build that up. It's all about work ethic. One of the things I tell people, which I I stand by, is I not a single person will ever outwork. I'm a competitive person.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:47:49]:
Nobody will outwork. So that's the one thing about hospitality that a lot of people I don't say I think they they tend to kinda undermine it. They they don't take it as seriously as they should.

Jeffrey Stern [00:48:01]:
Yeah. Well, I think if I mean, there's a lot I I can take away from what we've talked about, but I think there's probably a perception just about this industry in general that lends itself to people maybe taking it less seriously from, like, the business. And but it you know, evidently, it's just in practice, the diligence that you guys employ, you know, the way you approach it, it you have to take it seriously.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:48:24]:
You have to. You have to. If you don't, you won't work on debt on arrival. Yeah. Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:48:30]:
Well, I'll I'll, bookend it here with our traditional closing question, which will will pull the pin out for hidden gems in Cleveland. And I'll I'll give you a limitation on this question. So, you know, we can we can do forward, but then I will ask you for a non forward affiliation. I I

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:48:48]:
won't say forward. I won't be I won't be biased.

Jeffrey Stern [00:48:50]:
So but yeah. Yeah. Plug something with it forward if you want as a hidden gem, and then, you know, your your hidden gem for for Cleveland.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:48:57]:
Hidden gem for Cleveland. I think we'll do this. I'll do one from the food and beverage side

Jeffrey Stern [00:49:01]:
that Amazing.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:49:02]:
Food and beverage side, and we can we can do another one. You know, I think some people listening to this are gonna kill me for saying this because I told them all the other night not to. Food and beverage wise, there's a place in Little Italy that opened not too long ago called Tutto Carne. It's like 10 tables. It's it's an Italian steakhouse. Yeah. They do a phenomenal job. Food, service, the cocktails are amazing.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:49:29]:
The aesthetic of the place is really cool. We've been going there a lot, and I just I tell everybody when we we go there and that

Jeffrey Stern [00:49:37]:
To not tell people that.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:49:38]:
I was there the other night with with my partner Dante and a and a couple friends of ours. And he's like, I can't believe I haven't heard of this place. Like, this is amazing. I'm like, don't tell anybody. Because the second people figure this out, I'm like, we are so fucked. It is so bad because we're not going to be able to get in. So, I would say food and beverage wise, that's my hidden gem. Yeah.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:50:03]:
My hidden gem that that's not a food and beverage place. You know, one one of the places that out by where I grew up that I used to go to a lot when I lived out at my parents', whether it was to walk my dog or, you know, go on a walk with my mom or my sisters when when they're in town or sometimes when I just need to go clear my head and be in, like, a quiet place. I always say, Chapin Forest. You know, it's beautiful out there. The views are are really cool. It's tucked away in Kirtland, so it's not really ever packed. And it's it's just, you know, the right time of year. It's a beautiful sight to see.

Jeffrey Stern [00:50:39]:
Amazing. Thank you for sharing. Absolutely. Really appreciate

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:50:43]:
you taking the time. To Tutankham.

Jeffrey Stern [00:50:44]:
Yeah. I know. Nobody go. Before you know, we got a little bit of time buffer here. So, hopefully, it's, you you got a few months. Yeah. Enjoy it while it lasts.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:50:53]:
Exactly.

Jeffrey Stern [00:50:54]:
Well, Mitch, thank you for for coming on and sharing your story, more about what you're doing at Forward. It's awesome stuff.

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:51:01]:
Appreciate it. Thank you for having me, Jeff.

Jeffrey Stern [00:51:03]:
Absolutely. If people had anything they wanted to follow-up with you about, go to, you know, anything under the the Forward Hospitality Group umbrella, where where would you direct them?

Mitchell Vargo (FWD Hospitality) [00:51:14]:
I would say follow us on Instagram. You know, forward nightclub, welcome to the farm, John Boy. Here in Miami, she saw Miami just dropped today. Follow us on Instagram. And, you know, and and me, reach out to me. It's just, you know, Mitch Vargo. More than happy to welcome new people into the venues, take care of them, and kinda, you know, give them a great experience. It's what I do for them.

Jeffrey Stern [00:51:39]:
That's all for this week. Thank you for listening. We'd love to hear your thoughts on today's show, so if you have any feedback, please send over an email to jeffrey@layoftheland.f m, or find us on Twitter at podlayoftheland or @sternjefe, j e f e. If you or someone you know would make a good guess for our show, please reach out as well and let us know. And if you enjoy the podcast, please subscribe and leave a review on iTunes or on your preferred podcast player. Your support goes a long way to help us spread the word and continue to bring the Cleveland founders and builders we love having on the show. We'll be back here next week at the same time to map more of the land.