#176: Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) — Coco, Milk, Sugar, and Cleveland

-- AI-Generated Transcript--

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:00:00]:
What do you attribute to, you know, your longevity and this this romance you've had for 90 some years? The guy got married right after World War 2 when he came back from war, And they said, we love I think it was polka dancing and Malley's Chocolates. So we saw this. So my brother, Bill, boxed up a bunch of candy and went over to visit him at their house. And lo and behold, he goes in the hot. They invite him in. They wanna serve him some tea or coffee, and he's bringing us some chocolates. Hey. We hear you mentioned Mallies.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:00:29]:
They go, well, yes. And then they go over to their, like, breakfront, and they had a box of Bally's chocolates there. So we ended up taking their picture and posting it on our Facebook page, and there's the overflow of people just, like, loving the story. But, you know, just fun stuff like that that we can continue to make those connections within the community.

Jeffrey Stern [00:00:55]:
Let's discover what people are building in the greater Cleveland community. We are telling the stories of Northeast Ohio's entrepreneurs, builders, and those supporting them. Welcome to the Lay of the Land podcast, where we are exploring what people are building in Cleveland and throughout Northeast Ohio. I am your host, Jeffrey Stern. And today, I had the real pleasure of speaking with Mike Malley, the president and 3rd generation CEO of Malley's Chocolates. If you grew up in Northeast Ohio, it is very likely that you know of Mally's Chocolates, a staple of this community providing delicious chocolate candies and treats for over 8 decades now, with nearly 2 dozen retail stores across the region and a modern chocolate making 60,000 square foot factory off of Brook Park Road in Southwest Cleveland. Under Mike's leadership, the company has not only preserved its cherished traditions, but also embraced innovation and growth as it approaches its 90th anniversary. In this very fun and insightful conversation, we will dive into the fascinating history of Mally's Chocolates from its roots in the mid 19 thirties to today, explore the challenges and dynamics of running a family business over multiple generations.

Jeffrey Stern [00:02:10]:
How Mallie's Chocolates Cultivates Mallie Moments The decision to raise outside capital in 2023 to expand the business going forward How Mike thinks about legacy, about Cleveland, and ultimately a whole lot more. So please enjoy this very fun conversation with Mike Malley after a brief message from our sponsor. Lay of the Land is brought to you by John Carroll University's Boulder College of Business, widely recognized as one of the top business schools in the region. As we've heard time and time again from entrepreneurs here on Lay of the Land, many of whom are proud alumni of John Carroll University, success in this ever changing world of business requires a dynamic and innovative mindset, deep understanding of emerging technologies and systems, strong ethics, leadership prowess, acute business acumen, all qualities nurtured through the Buhler College of Business. With 4 different MBA programs of study spanning professional, online, hybrid, and 1 year flexible, the Buhler College of Business provides flexible timelines the most effective the most effective options for you, including the ability to participate in an elective international study tour providing unparalleled opportunities to expand your global business knowledge by networking with local companies overseas and experiencing a new culture. The career impact of a bowler MBA is formative and will help prepare you for this future of business and get more out of your career. To learn more about John Carroll University's bowler MBA programs, please go to business.jcu.edu. The Buller College of Business is fully accredited by AACSB International, the highest accreditation a college of business can have.

Jeffrey Stern [00:03:57]:
Okay. So in thinking about, you know, where the the best place to start might be, when when I was reading about the history of of Maly's chocolate, there's something, I think, genuinely beautiful to me about this idea of starting a chocolate company in the midst of the the great depression. You know, at its most abstract to me, it just felt like a sort of optimism incarnate and emblematic of, you know, the resilience of of the human spirit through hard times, and that even when things are very tough, chocolate can bring happiness of sorts. So I'd love to just start there. You know, if you could take us back in time as best as you can to the mid 19 thirties and share a bit of, you know, what what your family is going through at the time and and really what are the the origins of of Malley's chocolate.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:04:51]:
You know, where I'm sitting now, I really wish I knew more of of sort of the oral history that I could have with all the time I spent with my grandparents. Yeah. You know, I never really asked them about like, well, what was it like starting a business? Because, you know, as you're a grandkid, you're running around playing with all your cousins at their house at the holidays. You don't really think about, like, what a treasure trove of really just historical significance exists. So, you know, the stories that I have and I'm gonna share are really told through sort of what my parents have shared with us. And some of this may be a little urban myth, legend. I don't know. But so if any of my cousins are listening to this or people who know, they might call bullshit.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:05:30]:
I don't know. But, no. In seriousness, my grandfather was from Meadville, Pennsylvania. And at the time, as my dad told me, he's got his start as an insurance salesman, but he really wasn't that good of an insurance salesman. It really wasn't his calling. So, he ended up selling syrups. And back in the early 30s, late 20s, you're coming out of prohibition era. And back in the day, there was a lot of, drug stores that had soda fountains.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:06:01]:
Mhmm. And, you know, nowadays, you know, go to the vending machine to get a can of pop or soda, and that's how you get your your refreshment or however you buy it at the stores. Well, back in the day, you know, you'd go in to get a, Coke or any other kind of refreshment. They would have syrups that they would mix in with the soda water, and they'd do that right in front of you at the soda fountain. Yeah. So you'd go get a soda. And so he was a soda salesman, and his territory was Cleveland. And he always, liked Cleveland, and he had his eye on a place for to do his own shop.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:06:34]:
And he just always had this hankering that he wanted to go into business for himself, and it didn't start out with candy. So he would call on the Cleveland area, and he got to kinda know Cleveland from just making sales calls. And he settled on a building, and I don't even wanna call it a building. It was his he and my grandmother's home on the corner of Lewis Drive in Madison Avenue, which I think is just a fun name of a street because you think of Madison Avenue like you do in New York. Right. Right. So, anyways, you've got Madison and Lewis Drive. And my grandfather actually opened the Delicatessen sandwich shop.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:07:09]:
And this is where I think the story takes on a little urban legend. But his customers knew that he liked to tinker with chocolate, so he would make confections when he wasn't slicing up roast beef or pastrami. And the story goes that some of his clients or his customers would say, and his name was Mike, and they'd say, Mike, you make a lot better candy than you do, a corned beef, or pastrami. So he decided that he was gonna go all in and be a chocolate and ice cream fountain shop. And the thing that was really exciting for him was he'd he'd had to he had to borrow his first $500 to take the trolley car, and this is when the trolley cars were still in the city, and go downtown to the cold storage building and buy his first big block of chocolate and come back and you know, melt it and tinker with it and make his chocolates. And my grandmother ran the front of the shop, and my grandfather was more of the the confectioner. So my grandmother was really with the customers and handling the books. And then you could also imagine at the same time, they were had a growing young family.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:08:15]:
So it was my father and my aunt, my aunt Helen, and they lived in this place. So in the front of the shop or the front of the the house, the the building, was the candy soda fountain, and in the back of the house is where they live. Yeah. So, you know, my dad at a very very young age as well as my aunt, you know, they just kinda grew up in, like, this is what you do. And when you think about it, it's the height of the Great Depression, so everybody's working. So I and I wish I could find the photo, but I know there's one that exists of my dad. They have an upturned milk crate so he could get high enough up to the sink to wash dishes. So, you know, he'd be in the back washing dishes as a kid, and my grandmother would be up front taking care of customers.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:08:59]:
My grandfather would be down the basement melting his chocolates where he had his little, chocolate shop set up. And the, trolley cars were going up and down Madison Avenue. And my mom tells the story that, her mother-in-law, my grandmother, would say to her, you know, we would we always knew when the last trolley car would come down the street. So they would always stay open to just make sure they could capture the last possible customer that may be coming, you know, home from downtown Cleveland or vice versa. So, you know, they started to get a lot of following around that. But, you know, and my my mom tells me that my grandfather just burst with pride when, he went downtown to get his block of chocolate. This is like a couple years later, obviously. And, he was just bursting with pride because they said, you know what, Mike? You're a good customer.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:09:48]:
We're gonna give it to you on credit. And, you know, that was a big deal to get credit back then as a small business owner just starting out by himself. So, they started there, and where our our store now is located in Lakewood, and we kind of go along with it. They always say, oh, that's the original. And without giving them the 5 or 10 minute disputation of, like, no. It's not the original. But it is sort of the the one that everybody in Cleveland and Lakewood recognizes as the, you know, original store. And behind that retail shop is a building that we've converted as an office space now.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:10:24]:
But back in the day, that was my grandfather's original chocolate shop, where he actually had his enrobing line and you know, his 10 or 15 folks that would work with him in their, boxing candy and stuff like that. So and that was about I think I wanna say I gotta look at my notes. I gotta have this memorized. But that was about 1949. So the company started in 1935. So, you know, several years later, 1949, he opened, his first what was now then, first all aluminum building in Cleveland, which opened to a big fanfare. They had big Hollywood searchlights out on the street. They had to have police direct traffic.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:11:04]:
And so it just really took off from there. And he really made a great, great product, and we haven't really shied away from his recipes and his, commitment to quality and perfection, and that's what's kind of built the brand over the years. But next year will be our 90th anniversary. So but, anyways, back to the historical thing. Yeah. That's when we started the business, and he would he moved up to our Lakewood facility. And there's a I wonder if I I don't have a photo in here, but there's a great photo. It looks like he's, running a Speakeasy.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:11:35]:
They show him behind the soda pop. And he's got a, like, a black, you know, vest on, and it's, you know, he's like the doorman or something. But back in the day, you know, he was known quite affectionately throughout the neighborhood to make a a good ice cream soda or sundae and, you know, plus making chocolates. So from the very first, you know, sort of birth of the company, it started as a true family business.

Jeffrey Stern [00:12:00]:
Oh, it's amazing. There are so many threads to pull on here. I first off, it just I think led some credence to the old advice of listening to your customer. You know, if they tell you maybe the candy is a little better than Right. Right

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:12:16]:
Right. Right. Exactly.

Jeffrey Stern [00:12:18]:
But I no. I'd love to to talk about the the familial nature of the business. You know, what what was it like for for you growing up within it?

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:12:27]:
Well, you know, it's funny. My brothers and I and we have, 2 sisters as well, but I always refer to my brothers because my brothers I have 3 other brothers, and we're all very close in age. And then we had 2 my mom and daddy had, 2 daughters. Like, I think my age span between myself and my next sister is like 13 years. So kind of growing up, my brothers and I were always rough and tumble, wrestling, playing sports. And we just thought everybody grew up with a candy shop. You know, we just thought that was the point. And we didn't get it with all the neighborhood kids, so I'm not excluding my sisters because they when they came into the fold, their friends told me kind of the same thing.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:13:07]:
But, you know, my dad would, this is just I can give you a boatloads of stories. But, back in about 1969, we opened our 2nd store at our North Olmsted location. Okay? So my father it was an ice cream parlor. So during the summers, the store was open till 11 o'clock at night. Because back in the day, there was always a big demand for people out in the evenings, and we just always seem to have a lot of strong business till 11 o'clock at night. But anyways, he would go out there to do what he would call close the store, which means he'd go out and count the register receipts and do the bank deposit. That was his thing. And we just thought that was normal.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:13:49]:
So kids in the neighborhood during the summer, they would wanna do sleepovers or camping out in our backyard or whatever we were doing. And then before you know it, we'd have all these kids, like, late at night hanging out at the Malley's to go out to the new Plumstead store. Mister Mallie would count the register receipts, and we'd be running around the store making ourselves ice cream sundaes and bagging up candy to have some fun. So, that was always a fond memory. Other other family type things, again, I remember as a very, very young boy, my mom had a real pension for merchandising and still does. And her real call is more on the operation side of the business. I wouldn't call her a confectioner as much as she's really strong in operations, merchandising, packaging design, customer relations. But anyways, we had the store in Lakewood had a small front window.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:14:42]:
And my mom really took great prides in decorating that store window for the holidays like it would be something along the other Madison Avenue in New York. It would rival, you know, Bloomingdale's or, Macy's. And so, on Thanksgiving morning when, before Christmas started getting in vogue to start in October like it does now, But, you know, back in the day, back in the sixties growing up, we would go in there on Thanksgiving morning, and my mom would, you know, convert that Madison store and that Madison front window into the whole Christmas thing. So we'd go to the store early on Thanksgiving morning. And she'd bring a little portable TV, and we'd watch the Macy's Day parade or run around the store. And I remember she'd always give me a couple of bucks and say, okay. Go across the street to the drugstore and buy some just like like, I don't wanna call them presents, but just some some knickknacks. And we'll we'll make a little Saint Nick bag for everybody for tomorrow morning or something, but it's a secret, Mike.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:15:40]:
Don't tell your brothers. And, you know, my youngest brother was probably only 4 years old at the time, and he'd conk out and fall asleep on the the office floor of my dad's office. But then, you know, we'd get all packed up, go back to our house, take our afternoon naps, and then go out to my grandfather's house and hook up with all our cousins and stuff. But I can remember spending many a Thanksgiving doing fun stuff. And at the time, it didn't seem terrible. It was kinda fun.

Jeffrey Stern [00:16:04]:
Right. Right.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:16:05]:
With your brothers, and it's a family thing. It's a holiday. And then there's other stories where we would tease our parents years later and say, you know, we didn't realize it, but you were probably in violation of child labor laws. What are you talking about? Well, you know, they would go to work, my mom and dad.

Jeffrey Stern [00:16:21]:
And Right.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:16:23]:
You know, and if it's around the holidays and we're out of school, they would just bring us along. And they never forced us to do anything. But we kind of wanted to be a part of the action because it was so much action and fun. And the plastic green grass you get in your Easter basket nowadays, back in the day, we used to sell that, a little bag of that to go along with your Easter basket. Well, my parents would say, we'll give you guys a penny for every bag you can do. All right? So you can imagine we had to deal with these cellophane bags, these big green blocks of this greenish looking plastic hay. We'd have to pull it all apart, shove it in a bag, and the bags would rip. And then we'd have this old fashioned sort of ironing thing that you would step on to make the seal.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:17:08]:
I mean, it was not a very automated process, but we thought, wow, a penny a bag. We're gonna make 100 of them. Then we realized, like, oh my god. That was just insanity. You know, we're down the basement of a store down there. It's like the Oompa Loompa is making little Easter baskets. So, yeah, we we have fond memories of that. I have fond memories of, going in with my dad to the Lakewood store during the Easter week, and I would get to man the, or buoy the soda fountain.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:17:35]:
And during the day, there would be a lot of traffic for that. But the sales staff loved it because they could handle the customers in the candy case. And I would just bust the tables or make soda sodas and shakes for some of the customers that would come in because we didn't see a real heavy amount of ice cream traffic during Easter week. But, you know, it's a good way to feel like I was contributing. And all my siblings have similar stories and recollections and things like that. And then, you know, as you get older, you would take on more responsibility or opportunities. And, you know, in high school, we were either, soda jerks working at the fountains. And for those of the listeners who don't know what that is, it's not a that's not a a derisive comment or or characterization, but that's what they used to be called soda jerks.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:18:25]:
Because if you look at the soda fountains back in the day and the ones that we have, they have those, bent looking sort of, I don't wanna call them rabbit ears at the fountain. And you're pulling the lever back and forth. That's kinda where they got that nickname as a soda jerk. So, we had all had done stints as soda jerks. So you'd work as a soda jerk during the summers or maybe even during the falls. And then when you got your driver's license, you could you would be, you know, pressed into delivery service or, and then you got to be somewhat popular. You'd have some of your friends in high school saying, hey. I know you guys are ramping up for Christmas or Easter.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:19:02]:
You know? Do you need any help at the kitchen? So, you know, we do things like bagging chocolate foil bells at Christmas time

Jeffrey Stern [00:19:09]:
Sure.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:19:10]:
Or any other number of, you know, tasks that need to be done. So, you know, come home at Christmas time, and you can do the deliveries, be a delivery driver and stuff like that.

Jeffrey Stern [00:19:20]:
Yeah. So fun. I love how fun kind of pervades everything. I think and it sounds like what we'll talk about as well. It feels like it might be a a fool's errand to ask this question to try and consolidate and capture the nuance of, you know, all the stories that you have. But, you know, from $500 back in in 1935 to its current existence as a Cleveland institution today coming up on on 90 years, which which is incredible. If you were maybe we could phrase it this way. If you were authoring a book on the evolution of Malley's chocolate, you know, what what would what would the chapters of that book be? And, you know, what would be the the main focus of of each of those chapters?

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:20:03]:
Oh my gosh. Well, I would think, you know, it's a good question. I think, you know, you'd probably some of the chapters would be you'd start out with a family, a tradition, a brand, bringing joy, then you'd have to get into this, not that those things are not serious, but then you would start talking about, okay, how do you sustain this? So sustainability, longevity. How do you start managing, the very real world of the family dynamics of family governance? How do you manage the business? Who's going to have what roles in the business? Everyone brings different skill sets to whatever task is at hand, and everyone has different strengths and attributes, and that's trying to find those. And that's where a lot of family businesses really collapse because, you didn't ask this, but, you know, it's part of the chapters. You know? I think the running joke is, well, the first generation launches the brand, which the successive generation would say, oh my god. That was the hardest thing, just even getting this thing going. The 2nd generation builds the brand.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:21:11]:
And then what sort of the knock on the 3rd generation is, and then the 3rd generation comes in and spends all the money and ruins the brand. So knock on wood, Maly's has not done that because not many family businesses make it to the 3rd generation for a variety of reasons, whether it's the economy or the product or service they're offering isn't relevant anymore, or the family implodes because of the family dynamics and politics that come to play. So, you know, as you look at the chapters, I think the later chapters get into get into a little bit more seriousness, not to say that the earlier chapters aren't. But you do have to start looking about, you know, okay, who's best suited to take the brand to the next level? You know? I think my father, when he joined the company, you know, it wasn't even a question. It was like, you know, he he could have done anything that he wanted, but I think he felt the calling to be in the business. And he really had a knack for it. And, his background was he liked to do a lot of things. Like, he liked to be involved with the advertising, liked to work with the banking and the financing.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:22:16]:
But as the brand has grown, no one person can do all those things. So, like with any company, now you've got to have people dedicated to each one of those specialties. So I'm not so sure my father would dig the way things, but he would understand it, of course. And, you know, my mom's very strong in operations, so human resources and package design and meeting customers. But even that, we've got a dedicated human resource person now. We have dedicated retail staff. That's just because that's where it's gone. It's gotten a lot more, I guess, complex.

Jeffrey Stern [00:22:51]:
Yeah. Well, I I'd be remiss if I didn't ask then, you know, knowing that, you know, maybe it's it's trite, but grounded in some truth that the 3rd generation is where a lot of familial businesses may not make it. What what do you feel has contributed to the the endurance? The you know, you mentioned kind of the the familial governance. What what do you feel contributes to Mali's persisting as a as a true Cleveland brand that I think is kind of beloved and and renowned in the area?

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:23:24]:
Wow. That's really kind of you to put those attributes to us. That's

Jeffrey Stern [00:23:28]:
yeah. That's great. Well, I'll I'll say because, you know, in in I am not from Cleveland. Right? So I don't actually have some of these memories of growing up here. But when I talk to people that I was going to talk with you, I mean, it was universal. Everyone remembers some period of time when they were younger growing up here where they were fundraising for something in their high school, and Mali's is involved in in a meaningful way. And they they they every single person has these memories. Wow.

Jeffrey Stern [00:23:55]:
So I don't, but I'm I'm channeling it. You know?

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:23:57]:
Okay. Well, that's good because I wanna talk about something you just brought up. And if I don't come back to it, remind me about Malley moments. But when you talk about, you know, how did we get to the 3rd generation, I'm not gonna sugarcoat it. There were some, you know, tough conversations. I mean, it's not all, you know, not to use the metaphor of candy, it's not all sugar plums, you know, sweetness. There's some tough decisions, tough conversations like any business would have, but they get even harder when you're talking with people that you love and your family. You know? Because you can have a really tough conversation with somebody, and then you're sitting there going, oh, shit.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:24:35]:
I'm gonna see them this weekend at, you know, my nephew's birthday party. Or it's Christmas Eve and I don't And a lot of times, you can take the passive aggressive approach like, you know what? It's the holidays. We're all just wound up. Let's just not address that issue. We're gonna you know, let's just enjoy Christmas so we don't have somebody upset. You know? But to really get through it, our parents really put a lot of effort into trying to put a board of advisors together that would guide the family, especially the 3rd generation on, okay, guys. You know, What are you doing with this brand? How are you going to grow this? We got to be very business focused. What are the KPIs that are going to run the business? Just because you're doing this today doesn't mean necessarily that you're gonna be doing that same job in 3 years because maybe we need somebody with more skills in that.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:25:26]:
And that doesn't make you a bad person, quite contrary. But it mean it means, like, you've got to take a focus on, am I really in the right role to help grow the brand? And so there was a lot of planning, a lot of talking, lots of meetings. And sometimes we just listen to the advice, and that's all we do. Nope. Don't wanna do that. Too difficult, or we don't agree with it. So there was a lot of talk and preparation to kind of prepare as we pass the baton from the 2nd generation to the 3rd generation, you know, how how they want us to succeed or actually just give us the footing to succeed. You know, it's good to bring in advisors, and I would suggest that to anybody in a family business.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:26:10]:
Look at any successful family business. I can almost guarantee you they have a board of advisors, if not a board of directors that can take sort of the fam the family out of it and ask the really tough questions and hold people accountable. And I'm not saying that went on at, but, it's one thing to say, oh, yeah. I had a bad quarter. I didn't hit my sales number. And you could say, alright. I'll give you a mulligan. But anybody who's in sales in another company would say, god, that's not gonna happen.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:26:42]:
I could lose my job over that. And I'm not saying we were flip about something like that. But you know, sometimes with family, you can be a little bit more forgiving because you know, you know, the personalities. But in other families, I've seen it quite the opposite where they're not forgiving and it's, boom, boom, boom. So I guess part of our recipe for success was just lots and lots and lots of planning. It didn't happen overnight. It went on for years, having meetings. The second generation was very thorough about, okay.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:27:17]:
We're gonna give you one voting share of stock, which, you know, on paper, doesn't really you can't sell it at the bank, but we're gonna give you a seat at the table to make a decision, you know, to kinda get people understanding. You have a wonderful asset here, and you're going to have to manage it as that. It's nothing's given. And if you're going to keep taking, well, then there's not gonna be anything left. So there was a lot of, I think, fundamental groundwork laid about, you know, how are you guys going to operate after the 2nd generation is out of the picture because the 2nd generation can only do so much. So I think there was a lot of of groundwork laid, you know, to help us and guide us to where we need to, You know, use our board for tough conversations if we're having internal disagreements. Use our board to challenge our budget assumptions. Use our board to bounce ideas off of that are very unbiased, and they're going to it's like I joke.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:28:17]:
You're in a family business. And because my last name's Malley and my name's on the sign, I can walk through and go, oh, mister Malley. Nice suit. You know? And I'm Mhmm. Facetious. You know, if my name was on the sign, I don't think they'd say anything like that. You know what I mean? It's kinda like so because sometimes the emperor doesn't have any clothes, And if the name's not the sign, sometimes your employees aren't gonna tell you that just because of the dynamic. And if you have a strong board, they're gonna tell you, you're full of it.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:28:44]:
You don't know what you're talking about. That's not gonna work. Or more importantly, they'll expose you to other resources to help you get more of a, sounding board to help you grow. So but, you know, back to the other thing, and I don't know if this this plays into it when you're talking about everyone sort of has these memories.

Jeffrey Stern [00:29:02]:
Yes. Yes. The Malley moments.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:29:04]:
The Malley moments. And it's funny. Our our chairman of the board, Brian Gale, I think he was the one that you know, we talk about all these stories, and he had a lot of stories growing up in Cleveland talking about Malleys. And I think he dubbed it, and I may be giving him undue accolades for this, but I think he was the one that came up with Malley moments. And we now make it part of our mission that whenever we have a meeting of a staff, no matter what it's about, we have to kick the meeting off with a malley moment. And it's not artificial, and they're genuine and authentic, meaning we get enough of these stories where every week someone comes in with a new story that's like, really? Well, that's a cool story. You know what I mean? So it's not like you have to pull one out of the bag from 3 years ago and go, okay, I got a story. It's something that genuinely happened in the course of, like and we have a weekly department meeting.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:30:00]:
So, like, from and we do them on Tuesday. So from, like, a Tuesday to Tuesday, I'll I'm always surprised that we'll get 3 or 4 very genuine, authentic moments. And to kinda give you a flavor of them, my wife and I recently, went to Florida for a week. And we weren't sitting right next to each other, but this couple was sitting in between us. And this woman opened her purse up, and she looked at my wife, and she had, like, snacks for the trip. And she had a a bunch of Bally Bars. And, she asked my wife. She goes, you want a candy bar? And my wife's like, does she know who I am? And it was just kinda funny.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:30:36]:
And as we got to talk to these people, it turns out that the husband has his pilot's license and helped his daughter get her flight hours, so he renewed his license, and she's a pilot for Alaska Airlines or something. But he's a pilot. So they always bring Malley Bars when they take flights, and they give them to the pilots. So, you know, they're like, oh, yeah. We wanna say, hey. Nice job flying. So my wife finally goes, well, do you know who he is? And she's pointing at me, and they're like, we have no idea. And she goes, I can't take a candy bar because that's Mike Malley.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:31:08]:
And they're like, really? And as the story goes deeper, it turns out that this couple was actually they are actually very good customer of ours that my brother Bill knows. They do a a nice corporate Christmas business with us. But, you know, they had stories like, oh, we've grown up with Malley's. We know the Lakewood store. Every time we take a flight, my husband flies all the time. We always give the pilots Malley bars, and we're big proponents of Cleveland. You know? So that was just a fun story. We just, we had another kinda just the kinda customers we have at the one store, our Village Square store.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:31:42]:
There was, a mom brought in some kids, and she gave the kids each, I think, 5 or $10. And she told the kids, okay, you're buying this. And I think it was for one of their family members who's in the service. And I may have that a little muddled. But there was a customer in the store that overheard this, and he went up to the register and told the cashier. He said, whatever they buy, I want you to put on my bill. Sort of like pay it forward. And, you know, I mean, just fun stories like that.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:32:12]:
I'm not saying they're unique to Volleys, but, you know, a cool story like that. And, you know, but we get stories like that all the time where people, like, either just, you know, happenstance or bump into them, and they're like, oh, I did this with Malley, so I have this great memory with guys. So we start out our meetings with Malley moments, and we think that's part of our DNA that we've really got to build on for NICE.

Jeffrey Stern [00:32:34]:
No. It's it's it's really that's special. I think those are those are really fun.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:32:39]:
I got another good Mally moment for you. Absolutely. We we had this, we have this, couple, and, they live in Brooklyn, and it was about 2 months ago. And they're remarkable. They look fit as a fiddle, and they're in their nineties. And so this reporter from the Brooklyn, I think it was the local Brooklyn newspaper, Brooklyn, Ohio, not New York, was asking them, so what do you attribute to, you know, your longevity and this this romance you've had for 90 some years? The guy got married right after World War 2 when he came back from war. And they said, we love I think it was polka dancing and Malley's chocolate. So we saw this.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:33:18]:
So my brother, Bill, boxed up a bunch of candy and went over to visit him at their house and lo and behold he goes in the hot, they invite him in, They wanna serve him some tea or coffee, and he's bringing us some chocolates. Hey. We hear you mentioned Mallies. They go, well, yes. And then they go over to their, like, breakfront, and they had a box of Bally's chocolates there. So we ended up taking their picture and posting it on our Facebook page. And there's the overflow of people just, like, loving the story, but, you know, just fun stuff like that that we can continue to make those connections within the community.

Jeffrey Stern [00:33:52]:
Yeah. Those those are are endlessly awesome stories. Yeah. And you get a new batch every week. Yeah. That's amazing. But, you know, you had mentioned the the recipe for success. And I just have to use that pun because it's too applicable.

Jeffrey Stern [00:34:11]:
But if if part of that is the governance and, you know, how you've thought about advisers that you've brought in I mean, the the other part is is literally the recipe for success. Right? There's milk, cocoa, and sugar, which I, you know, I think you've made somewhat. Notorious is not the right word, but, you know, people recognize that as part of of Mally's brand, the actual, you know, ingredients that that go into chocolate.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:34:35]:
Right.

Jeffrey Stern [00:34:35]:
You mentioned you haven't deviated too much from, you know, perhaps the original recipe, and I'm, you know, I'm not gonna ask for, you know, the the secret sauce. But I I am curious how you thought about honoring the tradition of where Mally's has come from, but continuing to to innovate and thinking about what what the customer wants. You know, if it's not the sandwich, what what what is it?

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:34:58]:
Right. That's a really good question. We wanna stick to our tried and true products that have really gotten into the DNA, like our chocolate pretzels, our Billy Bops, our Buckeyes, sort of the staples that people can rely on that they can always find at Maly's. And we used to do it, which come up with some new product ideas. And then we kinda got away from that pre COVID. And then during COVID, it was just like, you know what? We just gotta focus on our our bread and butter staples. So you know, how to keep the brand fresh, I think, is kinda where you're going. We're constantly trying to come up with new ideas.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:35:36]:
And part of my when I'm trying, it's hard for me. But part of my leadership style is to say, okay. I want to empower the employees to really run with some new ideas. Some of them are like, meh. And I'm not gonna poo poo them because it's like, you know, I could be totally wrong, but, you know, we had a transaction occur back in February of 2023, which you might get to. And part of that was it was the Maly family that always was the ones who decided what the products were. And that was really good because we could ensure brand standards and, you know, we controlled that. But I think what we probably were remiss in doing such a tight control on that, we may not have been as, opening to new ideas.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:36:24]:
So in the last 12 months, we've really kind of refocused on, we wanna open this up to the employees, the customers. What do they wanna see? So we've come up with some just really kooky off the wall mashups. And, you know, when you talk about trying to attract and be relevant to other generations of customers, you know, Nutmallow is a mainstay of probably the grandparent set. I don't even know if you know what nutmallow is, but I didn't know.

Jeffrey Stern [00:36:50]:
I was I was

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:36:51]:
gonna ask. It's it's this slab of marshmallow and walnuts and and all covered in chocolate. And when you look at it, you you gotta cut it up in a loaf, but it's just a blob, and you go, oh my god. But back in the thirties forties, my grandfather had, you know, these women who were actually candy dippers, and they would work on a big marble slab making this product. But my point is that doesn't resonate with somebody in their twenties or thirties right now. So we're trying to come up with just, you know, eclectic funny ideas. Like, so for instance, we're trying to do a collaboration or we did a collaboration in the fall with Brunox, who's the local donut folks over on Detroit Shoreway neighborhood, and they've got a following. So we took some of our excess chocolate Bordeaux scraps, pretzel scraps, and some other stuff that maybe, you know, weren't perfect enough for a box and gave it to them, and they came up with 3 different donut ideas.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:37:48]:
And though we had a very limited run, we sold out of them pretty damn fast. So trying to listen to the customer, we the the kitchen came up some of the staff in the kitchen came up with the Eclipse Ahoy chocolate chip covered caramel, dark chocolate, white chocolate, crazy cookie. And we sold literally 40,000 of these cookies in about 2 weeks. That would help that Northeastern Ohio was just, you know, all abuzz about the eclipse. But, you know, we're gonna do a collaboration with, Barrio, the local, taco and tortilla folks, and we're gonna do chocolate covered tortilla chips for Cinco de Mayo. Oh, fun. And and we did those, like, several years ago around, Christmas, and we called it Feliz Navidad, and we did a Cinco de Mayo thing there. Now, are we gonna set the world on fire with us? No.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:38:39]:
But it kinda keeps us relevant. We keep trying to come up with new ideas. The kitchen just gave us some candy samples Tuesday at our meeting. You should come to one of our Tuesday meetings, you'll get all kinds of samples. But we're trying to come up with something that's themed for July 4th. So our plant manager said, let's get Pop Rocks, which is that, you know, stuff that And she was, let's mix it in with white chocolate and we'll get it so it's red, white, and blue with milk chocolate that's white. And then when you eat it, it'll kind of explode in your mouth. I mean, I don't know how many candy bars of those will sell, maybe a few, but we're trying to do things like that.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:39:17]:
And then, plus, you know, we've come up with what have become mainstays. We came up with a product years couple years ago called the rascal, which is a, almond. It's it's like our Billy Bob, but it's almonds with caramel covered in dark chocolate, and we just offer it at Thanksgiving, Christmastime. So we're also trying to look for new ideas like that that we can launch that are very seasonal to get a buzz going, to get people to come in. So

Jeffrey Stern [00:39:44]:
So fun. Lay of the Land is brought to you by Impact Architects and by 90. As we share the stories of entrepreneurs building incredible organizations in Cleveland and throughout Northeast Ohio, Impact Architects has helped 100 of those leaders, many of whom we have heard from as guests on this very podcast, realize their own visions and build these great organizations. I believe in Impact Architects and the people behind it so much that I have actually joined them personally in their mission to help leaders gain focus, align together, and thrive by doing what they love. If you 2 are trying to build great, Impact Architects is offering to sit down with you for a free consultation or provide a free trial through 90, the software platform that helps teams build great companies. If you are interested in learning more about partnering with Impact Architects or by leveraging 90 to power your own business, please go to ia.layoftheland.fm. The link will also be in our show notes. So with with an eye actually then towards the the future, I know you had brought in some capital at the the end of 2023.

Jeffrey Stern [00:40:58]:
You mentioned that. And I think just introduced here, you know, how you've thought about relevance and and trying to continue to innovate, in in the world of chocolate. And perhaps, you know, even expansion and and growing the business. With the three of those things, I'm curious just how you think about what success ultimately means to you, to the business, and where you would like this organization to go.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:41:24]:
Wow. It's a lot there. How does success look like? Expansion capital. Well, okay, part of being the success of a family business, at one point, I'm one of 6. And at one point, all 6 of us worked together in the business and it worked. We were successful. But, you know, we were reaching a tipping point where, and it's natural. It doesn't mean just because it's my opinion, it's the right opinion.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:41:51]:
Everyone had a right to express what they thought that the business should do for them personally, professionally, and, you know, just how much risk they would wanna take on. So you can imagine if you have 6 equal shareholders and a family business, the question really started begging, at least for me, was, okay, guys, what do we want to do with this thing called Malley's Chocolates? Are we going to make this a 4th generation play? Are we gonna hire outside management to come in and run this so we can retire? What does the succession plan look like? What does exit strategy look like? You know, you don't wanna be, you know, as they say, the golden handcuffs where, you know, I've got all my assets tied up in Maui's chocolates, so I can't leave because I drive, you know, all my income from Malley's. And, you know, to me, that wasn't, you know, a really satisfying recipe. So, to tie that into success, my siblings and I said, all right, you know what? Let's take a look at what would a transaction look like? What would an infusion of capital look like if some of us felt like it was time that we wanted to do something different with our lives or, you know, start to put a plan together because, you know, the other side of this thing is, Jeff, you're trying to hire management personnel to keep the business going, but it's hard to attract people for a senior management position when they're like, well, all the Malleys have the senior jobs, and there's no succession plan that we're aware of. So are these guys gonna get taken out of here in a pine box? I mean, that's not you can't really attract I mean, we have great employees. Don't get me wrong. But you know, if I was to bring somebody in to be, like, a chief operating officer, they might be like, okay. But then where do I go from there? And, you know, do I have room to grow? And you can always figure out a way to make that happen.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:43:44]:
But if it's like, no. I'm gonna be here until I'm, you know, 80, and I get, you know, put in the ground. And, you know, after me comes my next sibling, and after that sibling, there's another sibling. And after that sibling, then there's a 4th generation. So, you know, we really had to figure out what does succession planning look like. And part of that, when you talk about success so what did success look like for me? I was brought into the family business because prior to me working in the family business, I worked in the publishing industry for about 23 years. And, when I came into the business, and I've been here for 12 years now, my mission largely was, Mike, we need your help to facilitate, and not in a patronizing way, but to help facilitate, how do we get from the 2nd generation to the 3rd generation? Because even though the 2nd generation may have divested themselves financially from the company, emotionally, they were never divested, And they're always gonna be your parents. So, you know, if mom and dad call you over to their house for a meeting because they wanna know what the hell you're doing with x y z store or why you're not making certain sales calls, or they just have a ton of ideas because they were just a fountain of ideas that were really creative.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:44:55]:
You know, not all of them are great, but not all my ideas are that good either. So my point is, you know, we had to think about success as a journey to say, maybe success looks like maybe the Malleys don't hang on to Malley's chocolates. And success looks like if we really want this brand to be sustainable and to go on for decades beyond us, maybe we need to have a real self appraisal that says, we own the asset, but maybe there's other people. And I know there's other people because we know there are, that are smarter than us that could run this business. And we just have to get out of our own way and not let our egos get in the way. And that's hard to say, wow. You're going from being the omnipotent Oz, the power guy or woman running the place, to now you have to answer to bosses, but you want to believe that they're going to really bring in the right thought processes to help you sustain that business because at some point, we're all going to leave this business. And I saw one stat that said, Mike, with the amount of family members you have in the business and believe me, there's other families that have way more family members in their businesses that have figured it out.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:46:07]:
So I'm not saying we're the end all, be all on that, but it was just the path that we took. They said, Mike, you're running the risk of there's a high probability that one of you could probably become disabled. 1 of you could unexpectedly pass away. 1 of you may decide you want to get out of the business. So we really had to work through a lot of succession issues. And then it really came to light that some family members weren't really interested in being a CEO or president and we're happy doing what they were doing because they were happy doing that. And so we as we went through all that discovery, self appraisal, and that took years to do. That's not like you have an off-site retreat next month and figure it out.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:46:46]:
But it was a journey that got us to where we were at. And so, to me, success looked like we had a very successful transaction. There's no animosity with any of the family, which I think is a huge success because we started this conversation an hour ago, I guess. And we started talking about family. And I think the most important attribute that my parents wanted to instill in us is don't let the family don't let the business tear the family apart. It's more important to them that we remain a family. And that to me is like we were able to get to a point where some family members decided, you know what, Mike? If there is an opportunity for me to go and pursue some other things that I may have a a passion project for, then, and I can afford to do that and we can have an amicable separation, go

Jeffrey Stern [00:47:37]:
for it.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:47:37]:
Like, my brother, Packie, is, he's my youngest brother. He's in the peace corps. And, you he's wanted to do that ever since I can remember him talking about it in high school and college. Well, bully for him. He's doing it. My sister came back to Cleveland from work, Megan, from working in the film industry and she still is. But she's now working in the film industry here in Cleveland. But she came back and joined the business.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:48:02]:
So she felt a longing to get back into that lineup. I have another brother that he spent his entire adult professional life here, and he's put a lot into it. And he decided he's gonna retire, and he'll figure out what he wants to do when he gets to there. So and I got another sister who spent an earned amount of time here as well, and she's spending time traveling and doing a wonderful job looking after my mother. She lives with my mom. So, a lot of things really kinda worked out, I think. Maybe they're getting together and they have a different take on it. But for the most part, I think that's what, that success looked like.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:48:38]:
Now, for me, when you say, okay, now what's the future success look like? Because I also think there's a lot of gas left in the tank for Malley's. Yeah. And I really wanna make my mark or my legacy is, like, I like to think of it, we're 3rd generation. So is this gonna be Mali's 3.0? You know, what's the new version of Mali's? And we have seen such fundamental changes to our business with the influx of e commerce, trying to make bricks and mortars, brick and mortar stores very relevant to still still get foot traffic in the stores, to looking at our fundraising business through a different prism now. You had talked about it where you talked to people who said they grew up selling Nally Bars. Well, during COVID, we actually shut our whole fundraising business down because we were just like, there's no after school events. There's no Washington DC trips. Nobody's doing anything.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:49:34]:
So, that whole business just dried up. And now, it's starting to come back. But interestingly, when we shut it down, I was really nervous that like, oh, boy, we're going to see just what am I going to do for the x number of dollars that that would generate for us? But in hindsight, it didn't really generate it generated a lot of top line revenue. But with fundraising, you're giving a good percentage of the profits back to the groups because they're trying to raise money. So we didn't really see a bad impact to our bottom line. And this goes back to where I was talking about an infusion, not so much of capital, but of thought processes. And the new owners came in and they're like, hey, guys, we think you're thinking about fundraising all wrong. Fundraising should be marketing.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:50:17]:
Yeah. We get it. The margins, returns on fundraising are not that great. But, boy, you guys are out in the community. You're getting all your future customers. You're getting all those kids selling candy bars at all those schools. You're and all of a sudden, it was like an epiphany when that was when that was said to me because I kept trying to look at it as a business model. And there is a business model of fundraising, but, you know Yeah.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:50:39]:
When you're giving 30% of 30¢ on every candy bar back to the schools, you know, and then you've got another 40, 50% that you've gotta pay for the the the candy bar process itself. There's not a lot not a lot left there. But all of a sudden, when you look at it through the prism up, well, that is right. That's a great branding marketing thing, and, plus, we're giving back to the community too. We're still in the community. So I look at Malley's, you know, As I try to get to, like, what does success look like for me, I really wanna come up with, like, you know, the 3.0. And one of the things I'm working on, Jeff, is I touched on it. How do we make brick and mortar stores relevant? Because you know what? Anybody in the city of Cleveland can go online and buy a box of candy, whether it's from me or any one of my competitors.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:51:28]:
I gotta give you a reason to come into a mall store. And I believe that a lot of customers and especially younger customers, as well as older customers, are looking for experiences. And I'll tell you what, chocolate is a fun experience.

Jeffrey Stern [00:51:43]:
It is. It is.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:51:44]:
And we had to take away our tour hall because we needed more space. So I'm envisioning, like, the Maui new retail footprint could have sort of in store chocolate making opportunities, you know, more tasting experiences, maybe more wine and chocolate pairing nights to get that target audience. We have all kinds of requests from schools that wanna talk about chocolate. And, you know, what a great opportunity to talk about where chocolate comes from. There's this whole issue about sustainability from the whole cocoa industry because it comes from, you know, it comes from either 10 or 20 miles north and south of the equator. So that's usually South Africa or, you know, South America. And we get our cocoa beans from South Africa. But, you know, that area of the world is really hit with just some tremendous weather issues.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:52:32]:
El Nino's had a bad impact. But what a great other opportunity for Maly's to also sort of position ourselves to talk about, you know, here's where your chocolate comes from. It is a global world we live in, and we're all interconnected. So I look at the new retail store of, you know, it could be a whole, you know, mash up of it's a learning environment. It's a fun environment. So I'm thinking there's a great opportunity for Mallies to to come out and, you know, reimagine what, you know, the new chocolate stores should look like. And, you know, the other thing is I wanna also look at, you know, is there some new product lines we should be introducing, you know, that would be sort of outside the scope of our brand. I think our brand, as you talked about, is really well liked and appreciated, and I don't wanna get too ahead of myself and say loved.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:53:22]:
But the Maly brand does stand for quality, value. You know you're going to get a good product. And I keep thinking that could extend beyond chocolates. You may see Malley's in the not too distant future getting into the snack food area, you know, where there could be a lot of neat opportunities in that that, you know, I think our brand extensions pose a lot of opportunities. So I think, you know, I probably said a lot, but that's kinda what success looks like for me.

Jeffrey Stern [00:53:51]:
Yeah. No. I appreciate you sharing that. I I mean, I could I could ask you so many more questions about all this. I really love the kind of 2 pronged meaning of success, you know, family unity over business in in one bucket of it. But, you know, realizing Mali's potential, the Mali 3 point o, a focus on experiences in in real life, I I think Yeah.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:54:15]:
And if if I can add to that, you know

Jeffrey Stern [00:54:17]:
Absolutely.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:54:18]:
Brian, Gale, who I've mentioned earlier, he's the chairman of our our company. Sometimes we beat ourselves up as malleys because we think, oh, we should do this better. Or they might be saying, hey, how come you guys are doing your financials this way? Or why is manufacturing run this way? And you start sitting there going, yeah. That's really and you start feeling like, maybe, you know, we're not we don't look as good. And they always remind me, and they say, hey, Mike. Wait a minute. You guys have accomplished a lot. 1, you're in business for almost 89 years this year, which not a lot of businesses are even around you.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:54:52]:
Number 2, you're profitable. So there's a lot of companies that are in business today that aren't profitable. So you guys have, handled that challenge. And he goes, and then the third thing is you still have maintained your family unity. And he goes, you guys should feel immensely proud of that. So, yeah, are there some areas where maybe you're not as professional or as polished as one might think you should be? That's where we're going to come in and help you. So, to your point, what does success look like? I think we have accomplished a lot. And a lot of it goes to, I know it's a cliche, but I feel like we're standing on the shoulders of giants because I can remember my mother telling me stories like, we never saw it because I always saw my parents as the happy warriors.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:55:36]:
You would never guess if they were having a good Christmas or a bad Christmas or a bad Easter or a good Easter. They were just always into the moment, having fun. But, you know, my mom would say, oh, your dad, there'd be many a night where he'd be like, oh, boy, how am I gonna meet how am I going to meet payroll this week? The really brass tacks of what it's like to run a small business, sweating it out, like, how am I gonna make payroll? How am I gonna pay off the line of credit? You know? Right. Those kind of things. Like, I have a whole different level of stress, but, you know, that's what they went through to help build.

Jeffrey Stern [00:56:10]:
Well, I'll I mean, again, really appreciate you sharing all of this. I know we're we're coming up on time here. I want to bookend it. Well, you know, we'll go through our traditional closing question. But if if if there's been a theme throughout this conversation to me that, you know, I picked up on, it's it's kind of the fun interwoven throughout all of it. And so I I'd love in in closing before we get to, you know, the our our closing question is just any parting thoughts you have on, you know, things we haven't covered as a part of Mally's journey. But, you know, to to me, a big takeaway is just the the fun throughout all of it, as stressful as maybe it is at times.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:56:53]:
Yeah. You know, it's it's interesting you did you do say that because I I've asked that, you know, the the the management team. I said, you know, I want to get back to having more fun. I want to do more passion projects at Mallys. I need help because, the stress of running the company, it's still a company and I've got fiduciary obligations. And plus, I want to succeed and do well. So that can be very stressful. But I said, you know, I wanna get to a point where I can have, you know, more fun.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:57:22]:
I wanna be more in the moment. And a lot of times, I'll force myself to get off from behind my desk and get in the retail store. And when I'm out in the siblings. And they want to share a story with you about how they know my parents or one of my siblings. So, experience it. That's fun. You know? So I'm trying to get to a point where I can be more mindful and be in the moment. You know, I think my parents were very happy warriors, But sometimes, I haven't reached that Yogi like namaste plateau that they seem to be on that zen moment when they were doing the Mali thing.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:58:04]:
So, but, yeah, it's about fun. It's about creating joyful memories. And a lot of times when we get stressed out here because you have to make your budgets. You gotta get product made. It's just like any other company, but I'll remind people. Hey, guys. What are we in the business of doing? We make chocolate, and we sell chocolate. And when people are coming into our store, they're in a good mood.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:58:29]:
And then we're asking them to lay out $25 for a pound of chocolate. They don't flinch, and they're smiling about it. That's a good business. You know? They're happy. So a lot of times, we gotta check ourselves and say, hey, guys. Put on the happy face. This is a happy place for the Oompa Loompas. So that's where I'm trying to make sure we can instill more of that joyful, you know, camaraderie amongst all the employees, as well as let it spill out and touch our customers.

Jeffrey Stern [00:58:55]:
Yeah. Yeah. No. That that that's awesome. Well, I'll close it out then with, our traditional closing question, which is for a hidden gem in Cleveland or something that other folks may not know about, but perhaps they should.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:59:10]:
Oh, wow. That they may not know about. Okay.

Jeffrey Stern [00:59:14]:
Well Could be an experience, a place, a thing, food.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:59:17]:
Well, well, for me, my hidden gems are I mean, I love the park system, and I can't imagine any Clevelander that's not hip to the Cleveland Metroparks or the Cuyahoga Valley National Park or Holden Arboretum. And I'm a I'm a gardening I love to garden. That's one of my hobbies. So, I mean, this is gonna sound terrible, Jeff, but it's kind of like sort of a hiker's backpacker's thing. You never really wanna tell them your favorite hiking trail because then it'll get overrun.

Jeffrey Stern [00:59:45]:
That's right. Yeah.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [00:59:46]:
You know? But but I think a hidden gem and I'm sure a lot of your listeners have taken advantage of, you know, the metro parks. But if they haven't, I mean, I just think the metro parks are a true hidden gem. I traveled in my publishing job to a lot of other major urban centers, and not a lot of cities can boast of the elaborate art system that we have that, you know, literally is so close to everybody in Cleveland, no matter where you live.

Jeffrey Stern [01:00:12]:
It's pretty magical.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [01:00:13]:
You know, to just jump on a trail, and you can be transported away from an urban setting relatively quickly, whether you like to bike or fish or hike or just chill in the park. So my hidden gem without telling you what my favorite hiking trails are, but my one of my favorite reservations is the Brexville reservation. I love that forest. Beautiful. Yeah. But, I'd say the metro parks, hidden gem.

Jeffrey Stern [01:00:36]:
Yeah. As great of a hidden gem as there there is in the area. Well, Mike, I just wanna thank you again for coming on and sharing a little bit about your story. I know there's so much more we we could have talked about. But I really enjoyed it and appreciate it.

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [01:00:53]:
Well, I appreciate you, and thanks for your interest.

Jeffrey Stern [01:00:56]:
Absolutely. If folks had anything they wanted to follow-up with you about, find the chocolate, you know, where where would you direct them?

Mike Malley (Malley’s Chocolates) [01:01:04]:
Well, they could just email me directly, mmalley@malley's.com. I'm easy to find.

Jeffrey Stern [01:01:10]:
Awesome. Well, thank you again, Mike. That's all for this week. Thank you for listening. We'd love to hear your thoughts on today's show. So if you have any feedback, please send over an email to jeffrey@layoftheland.fm, or find us on Twitter at podlayoftheland or at sternjefe, j e f e. If you or someone you know would make a good guest for our show, please reach out as well and let us know. And if you enjoy the podcast, please subscribe and leave a review on iTunes or on your preferred podcast player.

Jeffrey Stern [01:01:41]:
Your support goes a long way to help us spread the word and continue to bring the Cleveland founders and builders we love having on the show.