#185: Franco Kraiselburd (Asclepii Inc.) — Building the Next Generation of Tissue Engineering and Regenerative Cell Therapeutics to Improve Human Health

Franco Kraiselburd [00:00:00]:
I dream of a future where no one has to wait for an organ transplant, like, ever again. And that's a big one.

Jeffrey Stern [00:00:09]:
Let's discover what people are building in the greater Cleveland community. We are telling the stories of northeast Ohio's entrepreneurs, builders, and those supporting them.

Franco Kreiselberg [00:00:21]:
Welcome to the lay of the land podcast where we are exploring what people are building in Cleveland and throughout Northeast Ohio. I am your host, Jeffrey Stern, and today, I had the real pleasure of speaking with Franco Kreiselberg, cofounder and CEO of Ascleppy, building the next generation of tissue engineering therapeutics for wound healing. I've recently heard a life's work described as a lifelong quest to build something for others that expresses who you are, and in the context of our conversation today, it feels to me that Franco is not just building a company through Asclepi, but has found his life's work and is truly in pursuit of a grand mission. Grounded in an international childhood living across the United States, Spain, Brazil, Argentina, and Chile, Franco began his scientific career at the early age of 12 and has spent the last 9 years dedicating his life to the development of accessible and impactful advanced medical devices, translating the ideas from several different labs within the tissue engineering field into reality and the market. After 5 years working in the University of Sao Paulo in Brazil, Franco moved to Cleveland, Ohio to work in the regenerative medicine field as a biomedical engineering student at Case Western Reserve University with doctor Arnold Kaplan, the father of mesenchymal stem cells and the very person whose research had inspired Franco to set off down this path in the first place. A scientist and an entrepreneur, Franco is constantly trying to bridge the world's ideas and reality. His wound care innovations are internationally recognized, being awarded a gold medal at the 2019 Genius Olympiad, nominated for the 2000, 2025 Forbes under 30 and MIT Innovators under 35, and a finalist in the rising tech star category of Ohio's 2023 best of tech awards. Accolades and recognition aside, I can just express personally, having gotten to know Franco and listen to him tell his story, that his mind is a wonderful thing to behold, and we are lucky to have him as an entrepreneur here in Cleveland.

Franco Kreiselberg [00:02:23]:
So with that, please enjoy my conversation with Franco after a brief message from our sponsor. Lay of the Land is brought to you by John Carroll University's Boulder College of Business, widely recognized as one of the top business schools in the region. As we've heard time and time again from entrepreneurs here on Lay of the Land, many of whom are proud alumni of John Carroll University, success in this ever changing world of business requires a dynamic and innovative mindset, deep understanding of emerging technologies and systems, strong ethics, leadership prowess, acute business acumen, all qualities nurtured through the Bohler College of Business. With 4 different MBA programs of study spanning professional, online, hybrid, and 1 year flexible, the Bohler College of Business provides flexible timelines the Buhler College of

Franco Kraiselburd [00:03:14]:
Business provides flexible timelines and

Franco Kreiselberg [00:03:14]:
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Jeffrey Stern [00:04:00]:
have. Alright. So you had just mentioned, you know, you've given a lot of thought here on how to to best tell your story and and the different chapters of it, so I wanna pay deference to that. But everyone who knew that you were to come on this podcast strongly advocated that we we set an appropriate context to the work that you're doing by by actually delving into to your background, your international mindset, you know, your family context, this worldly set of experiences that you've had that have shaped, you know, your interest, how you operate. So I I'd love to, you know, open it up for you here to, you know, introduce yourself and and take us through your story as as you've thought about it. So my name is Franco,

Franco Kraiselburd [00:04:44]:
and I turned a $30,000 stem cell therapy into $300, and it all started because I grew up around the world and I got to witness a healthcare disparity firsthand. So growing up, I was born in the US in Boston, but then I lived in Spain, Brazil, Argentina, and Chile. So a little bit of Europe and and the US, but mainly South America. And growing up in South America, I got to witness firsthand what the lack of access to advanced solutions can really cause on a systemic level.

Jeffrey Stern [00:05:19]:
Mhmm.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:05:19]:
And and it and it kind of orchestrated itself in one of the simplest manners ever, which was taking the bus. Right? So taking the bus every morning is actually a great way of learning and realizing how the health of a community really is, right, of a region because everyone takes the bus. Right? Especially back home in in in Brazil, this the public transport systems are are very reliable, and so it's it's a very common thing. So, you know, I used to take the bus with this lady called Maria. Right? And, you know, I used to speak to her. I mean, it's, like, a very typical conversation. It's like, oh, how are you doing? Like, I see you all the time. And she used to work 3 jobs as a as a maid.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:06:01]:
Right? Like, cleaning houses, and and you got to I got to see, I mean, so she was diabetic, eventually developed an ulcer, and you got to see this progression. Right? Like, you develop an ulcer on your foot, you know, it started progressing. It started kind of getting worse. She I mean, she couldn't go to work. She couldn't work as much, so she can earn as much. So and then every time she had to go to the hospital, she had to skip work, and it it just skyrockets. And so I I on one hand, I got to see that, in an emerging market setting where, you know, solutions aren't as widely available necessarily, although the the health care systems themselves are are very solid. And then at the same time, I actually got to get very early on exposure to an advanced field, the field of regenerative medicine, really of tissue engineering.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:06:51]:
And that kind of culminated into a journey of discovery for me that very much centered around, regenerative medicine, and specifically, I mean, mesenchymal stem cells. I mean, and and it all really boils down to Cleveland. I mean, these cells, everything, this whole story, it actually does end up kind of all crossing paths in Cleveland. It it weirdly all started in Cleveland. Right? And so that my my story is a mere example, but also just a great way of showing the power of international collaboration on one hand. Right? And and the power of of really growing up internationally and and having an international perspective and the power of science at the same time is, like, how much innovation can truly break ground and change people's lives. And and we'll talk about I wanna I really wanna mention the cell therapy, component that my chief scientific officer did in Chile with with with 200 patients. It was it was great, with the technology.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:07:50]:
And then the power of Cleveland, like, it all the the the world's first cellular therapy came out of Arnold Kaplan, like doctor Arnold Kaplan out in here in Cleveland, who created it in Cleveland. Amazing. And that changed the world. And so, like, that was me. Like, that my my passion for this field and my passion for creating solutions that are advanced and and also accessible kind of took us to this point. So so yeah. So then my name is Franco, and I that's it. I I wanna turn a $30,000 self therapy to $300.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:08:20]:
Wow.

Jeffrey Stern [00:08:21]:
Amazing. So So I think you've set an excellent stage for us here and introduced a a few threads for us to pull on. And I I think we can, you know, ground them and unify it in this all roads converge on Cleveland theme. So with that in mind, you know, as we make our way down one of these roads, I'd love for you to expand upon, you know, for 1, your your time in Brazil learning in an environment where I believe you didn't, you know, even speak the language and how that led you to the discovery, the learning, and ultimately the inspiration that you've received from doctor Arnold Caplan here in Cleveland.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:09:01]:
Yeah. So growing up, obviously, when when you go around the world, you're you're very you're instantly nontraditional. Right? Because you're instantly an a foreigner in kind of every new environment you're going to, which isn't a bad thing. It's just it's different. Right? So when when you have a very nontraditional upbringing, you begin to get very nontraditional upsides and value adds. Right? So you start exploring just nontraditional paths. So when I moved to Brazil from Spain, and I only spoke English and Spanish. Right? As you mentioned, I didn't speak an ounce of Portuguese.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:09:31]:
And and then, you know, we had done some courses. I took a, I went to school that to a school that spoke English at first, but then when when we really went into the local Brazil we had to move into an actual Brazilian high school.

Jeffrey Stern [00:09:42]:
Yeah.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:09:43]:
That's where I did my middle school and my high school. I didn't really speak an ounce of Portuguese. You're right. I I didn't know anything. And on one hand, that's frightening. Right? Because, I mean, you don't get to do the things that regular kids get to do at school. Right? You don't get to study for just ham the same way because you don't speak the language. Right? But at the same time, it unlocked a area of my life in in a just an immense amount of value that I would have never been able to open my eyes to.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:10:14]:
And that was because my so my my teacher went to me and said, Franco, you are not going to be able to succeed in this academic curriculum. It's like, he's just not. Like, you don't know what is going on in the exam. Avi. Right. And I had exactly. I had this little notebook where I would take notes, and whatever I could I would I would draw. I was very visual.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:10:37]:
I was a very, very visual learner. So she knows she knew that I was engaged, but I wasn't really, like, being able to translate that. So she she put me on a separate task. She said, beyond everyone else, you know, let's put you on this special program of of scientific pre initiation. So when you go to college, you do scientific initiation. Right? It's like your first time in the lab. It's like pre initiation. So you're getting involved with the scientific method.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:10:59]:
As you said, if you can do a literature review, even if it's in English, you could do a literature review and start reading papers from from the the scientific field and really trying to understand it from a different angle. Well, you know, then then we can figure something out. So that was when I realized that the the first paper she ever introduced me really was and and one that changed my life was doctor Arnold Caplan's, like, 1991, like, MSC, like, mesenchymal stem cells paper where where he first ever describes this entire new, like, wild card cells as we mentioned, like the UNO, like, wild card cell, which is basically Yeah. Just, you know, it's a cell capable of doing whatever it wants. I mean, when in with various limitations, but it's like you can turn into skeletal tissue or muscle or or skin, and that was very powerful for me. And so, you know, instead of focusing on something like an exam, I would just focus on learning as much as I could from the literature and producing a good report for it. Yeah. And that changed my life.

Jeffrey Stern [00:11:56]:
It's amazing to have a a teacher like that, first off, who, you know, invests in cultivating your curiosity and academic success in an environment where it may have been prohibitively difficult otherwise. But I love you know, people always talk about serendipity as, you know, preparation, meeting opportunity, and this this paper. So what what fire did this light within you? You know, where where does where does this lead?

Franco Kraiselburd [00:12:22]:
So let me explain what the paper was. It's a very simple, very, very technical paper. And at first, the first time you read it, you won't understand anything. I didn't understand anything. Like, it's it's not

Jeffrey Stern [00:12:33]:
But this paper is in English, not Portuguese. Right?

Franco Kraiselburd [00:12:36]:
No. It's in English. You don't understand it, not because it's a language. It's just really technical. So they used to think that prior to 1991 and and to this big discovery, they yeah. The scientific community used to think that cells worked in a different way. So so the concept of a stem cell existed, but we we weren't really able to find them in a human or, like, animal bodies as easily. I mean, it it was like we can make them in a lab, but we can't I mean, we don't understand where they're manifesting, right, where they're existing in in a live setting.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:13:14]:
And so this limits our capacity to be able to create technologies on top of that. Right? Because it's if we understood where there are in the body, then maybe we could leverage them. We could understand. Right? But because we don't, this is an incredibly limiting factor. So doctor Kaplan grabbed, like, a chick limb, like, from a chicken and and understood, like, the chicken embryo. And in the mesenchyme, like, in the middle part of the chicken embryo, started realizing that these cells were behaving in a very wacky way. And he characterized them, meaning he he really tried to understand what specific factors made them that way, what factors identified them that way. Right? Like, what is why is it capable of turning into muscle or skeleton or this and that? And so and then realizing that contrary to, like, popular opinion, when you're looking at an embryo, it's not just all one, like, type of cell.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:14:03]:
It's kind of like you know, there's a lot of things going on there. And so the one that he he found specifically that it was a completely different cell than anyone had ever imagined. It was so different that it it just it required to be named differently, and so he named it, right, a mesenchymal wrongly, a mesenchymal stem cell, saying, hey. This is a stem cell that turns into anything that's within your like, the mesenchymal part of your body so you can think of it as, like, instead of your heart, like, think of it as, like, oh, like, muscles, bone, right, skin, cartilage, right, like, things that are in the middle part of your body, if that makes sense. And I say wrongly because later on, many, many, many years later, he kind of realized that they're not actual stem cells. It's a it's a whole different thing. They're signaling cells, so they tell other cells what to do. But the fact of the matter is that one paper, right, one publication where he named this new type of cell he discovered and realized its potential in it's it's the first cell that we actually realized had a stem potential in the human body.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:15:09]:
So the imagine grabbing that, right, and putting it in a different part of your body. So you have, like, for example, a wound or you have a heart that's, like, malfunctioning or a liver. I mean and you can start grabbing that and putting it elsewhere. For example, for diabetics, right, who have the insulin deficiency and you need to kinda start producing more insulin, I mean, they started creating, like this this eventually resulted in therapies for insulin, like cells that created insulin, but it it was all kinda based out of one central paper. So when it was handed to me, it was introduced as, hey. I want you to learn about cells. I want you to learn about the cells that exist in the body, and I want you to learn about what they can become outside if we can, like, influence them in the lab. So we put, like, proteins and, like, what do they do? So it turns out that if you grab cells from your body, specifically, actually your bone marrow, and you're you put up special proteins on them, you can with many limitations, you can create yourself again.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:16:11]:
Like, you can, in a way, kind of, like, duplicate yourself. Right? If you if you really had the right appropriate stuff. I mean and that was incredibly interesting to me. It it's like imagine It is incredibly interesting. Imagine if you can grab yours just make a double like, a second view. Right? And or maybe you cut you break your leg, and you just wanna make a new like, the the possibility I mean, it's the way I saw it, and this is at a very early age. I mean, I read this paper. I I must have been 12 years old.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:16:41]:
It was the future of human health. I mean, these are cells that are capable of completely regenerating an arm or even manufacturing one from scratch in this in a, like, a bioreactor or words, just a fancy microwave. Right? And then putting them back. So I'm trying to be very simple simplify that you're but but imagine you handing a 12 year old kid a paper and telling him, hey. This is your grade. This is what you're going to get your grades out of for school. Yeah. And it's not an exam.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:17:16]:
It's just it's just I want you to understand how this can change human health and why, and I want you to read about what people have been doing with this. Right? Like, what what has been being done out of this one paper? She said, this is the the central piece of the puzzle. Go figure out what what MSCs, these mesenchymal stem cells, have to come. Right? Like, that was my first assignment. She had a master's degree on them, so she obviously knew of them very well, and I ate that up. I loved that. I woke up every morning and went to sleep at night, and I was like, under because I just to this day, I still think of, like, the duplicating oneself.

Jeffrey Stern [00:17:55]:
Right. No. I mean, it sounds like you still, to this day, are eating enough Yeah. Sufficiently inspired by it. Yeah. So what, you know, again, grounding us in this all roads lead to Cleveland, what what happens from there? So,

Franco Kraiselburd [00:18:12]:
you you know, I start reading into it. And and it's funny because when you're a scientist and I was being educated on the scientific method. Yeah. You're supposed to ask questions. Right? You're supposed to ask questions about everything. You you question everything is the motto. Right? It's it's what is wrong here? What is right here? I mean, and so I I started asking questions. I mean, I started reading into it.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:18:36]:
I started really understanding what the state of the art was, what what, scientists today were doing based on a paper from 1991. Right? Today or or in this case is, like, 2015, but still. Right? Like, I was trying to truly understand where are the limitations of this field. And in a small really way and in a small way, I was trying to understand where I could fit within this field. Yeah. Because magically, from such a young age, having been exposed to this concept of, hey, you can grab cells and you can kind of do whatever you want with them, and you can build yourself a new arm, or you can, you know, kind of improve your liver or your heart and just constantly regenerate yourself. Right? Which by the way means that we can hopefully eat whatever we want the day of tomorrow and and not have to worry about too many Oreos. Right? But that that was what I was thinking about.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:19:28]:
I was, like, I was I always been told about being healthy and you can't you gotta and I'm I'm thinking, like, what if chronic disease could just be completely combated by cells? And so you start asking questions. And my my first question was, how can I make this practical? Like, how practical really is this? Like Yeah. What is the barrier to this? And it wasn't from a don't get me wrong. Looking back, it's an excellent question to ask.

Jeffrey Stern [00:19:56]:
It's a phenomenal question. It seems like the right one to have asked.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:20:00]:
Yeah. It does. But at the time, it came from a naive place of, hey. I I really wanna see this. I'm a visual person. I wanna really is this something that only advanced cell scientists and PhDs connect access, or is this something that I could kind of put an ointment or something really, really simple on and like sunscreen and just forget about it, and then it's it's there. Right? And that's when so I've always been a very visual, very practical guy. And and that really going into this this Cleveland thing.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:20:29]:
Right? I started trying to understand where the practicality lies in this field, in these cells, in this and it question after question. So I I, you know, I started I actually came up with an idea. Right? I said, okay. Well, what if I I started understanding so these cells, these m MSCs, we're gonna call them as in combo stem cells, are capable of migrating in your body. Right? And that was the most practical thing I could find. It's it's the fact that if they're in point a of your body, they can go to point b Yeah. Quite easily. And all it takes is a protein.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:21:04]:
You need to have a protein there that kind of stimulates it, that that pushes it to do that. So if you have a protein on point b, you can kind of push pull, right, these cells towards point b. Right? And I thought, okay. So if we can get that protein anywhere, you can you can revolutionize human health. Like, that's as simple as as just putting that protein there. And I kept on asking questions, and I came up with a prototype idea, but not not from the sense of, hey. I wanna put this on a patient. It was I would have loved to, but it it was more of the idea of, I wanna see this, and I wanna see if this actually works with these cells.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:21:39]:
Like, if I put the protein think of it very visually. Right? If I put the protein on the left, will the cells migrate towards the left? And so my first question that turned into a prototype kind of got me a job at a local lab that was studying these cells. I was very fortunate to actually have a lab that was working with these these cells. I was in a city so the University of Sao Paulo is responsible for about 80% of Brazil's research output. I lived in Sao Paulo, so I had access to a university that was groundbreaking, right, in their research. So I was fortunate enough, but also it's a little bit more than just luck that there was a lab there doing research. And I kept on asking questions and questions. And so the thing is that those questions led to more complex questions, hypotheses.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:22:26]:
The well, they led to hypotheses that and, like, theories, right, that I wanted to prove. It's like, okay. Well, how much of this protein do I have to put to actually make the cells go that way? Right? And okay. What if I wanna put this on an animal? What if I wanna put this on a human? Like, what are the implications? How long does this protein last? Because because that was another thing. If if it lasted less than it lasted less than a week. So if I put it there after a week, it wouldn't work. Mhmm. Right? And it got more and more and more advanced.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:22:51]:
So I this turned into a full blown research project. I mean, I I had a job. Right? It was like I was like 14 years old working on this stuff, very, very exciting work. And let's just say that eventually, these questions got so complicated that it they just reached the root. Like, I I just I got to a point of knowledge and a point of discovery where I didn't think there was anyone else who could answer the question than this one guy that created them that discovered them, really. It's like so I I, You're on the frontier. Right? You get there's a certain point. And, obviously, I don't think you can ever really get to the frontier.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:23:28]:
I just felt that I was. I felt I was naively mistaken in thinking that, hey. Like, I think I've learned a lot about these cells, and I wanna do something with them. Sure.

Jeffrey Stern [00:23:37]:
But, you know, as as as old as you were, I I feel like you've pretty comprehensively exhausted the the past at least available to you at the time.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:23:45]:
Oh, and it took 3 years. So so by the time I actually felt like I had exhausted this, I had already competed in a couple international science fairs. I I had done a lot, and I was I was about 17. So it was it was in I was already in the the fight for college. Right? Like, figuring out, okay. If I'm gonna go to university, where am I gonna go? I mean and so I figured if I'm gonna go to school, I wanna go to the school and work under the lab of that guy. Like, if I if the you know, I wanna ask him any question all anytime. So I shoot him an email.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:24:17]:
I had applied to Case Western Reserve because I I so I I Google his name. Right? And and I find out that he's at Case Western Reserve University, this place in Ohio. I only knew about Ohio because of, LeBron James in the 2016 finals, which I watched.

Jeffrey Stern [00:24:30]:
Yeah.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:24:31]:
And and I I applied this to Case, and I I email him. I'm like it was a long email explaining my life story to him. It was too long for it. Honestly, I don't understand how he responded. It was like, hey. I'm Franco. Honestly, your paper was the first paper I ever read in my life. It led me at first, I didn't understand it, but I it led me to ask questions.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:24:56]:
Those questions led to hypotheses. Those hypotheses led to a prototype. That prototype led to taking me around the world and and doing science fairs and doing things that I really enjoyed, and I wanna keep doing that. But I I feel like I'm at a point where I could only do that working under the person who first ever described them, and I I would love to work for you. Like, I would love I don't want you to pay me. I just wanna go there and learn. And he said, alright. Well, let me know if you get into case.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:25:25]:
And if you do, come visit me. Like, let's do it. Yeah. It was COVID, and he hadn't taken in an undergraduate student in 8 years because he had a rule about that that he very graciously broke for me. That was, underwriters are hard. I mean, love them to death, but they take a lot of mentorship and and just, you know, effort to really teach and and to get them there. Absolutely. But I had just shown him so I I I had a paper.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:25:58]:
I I and I didn't really mention this part earlier, but I I had written, obviously, as as you're a scientist and and you your questions turn into hypotheses, your hypotheses into prototypes or whatever you're doing really and and to tangible things, and those tangible things turn into results. That's a publication. Right? Like, that's a paper. So I wrote one. I actually wrote a 40 40 page paper, 20 pages of introduction explaining, like, the complex healing process. I and by the way, in terms of practicality and and and considering this this Maria lady I met at the bus, I, you know, I just figured the best way to do it to find, something tangible and and to make it practical really was to find a use case, and that use case felt very natural. I wanted to see if I could heal skin because skin is well within the scope, and and I'd seen this lady who's who had eventually gotten into into an amputation because of of a foot ulcer that she couldn't treat. And so this kinda all you see this all culminating into an ecosystem of of innovation where on one hand, I'm seeing the problem firsthand.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:26:57]:
On the other hand, I'm asking questions, and I'm I'm getting there. Right? And so at a certain point, my first 20 pages were about, hey. This is what diabetes is. Right? This is what wounds are. This is how diabetes affects wounds, and and it really, really does. It's it's it's awful. So about 500,000,000 people around the world suffer from diabetes. 1 in 4 of these people will develop an ulcer in their lifetime.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:27:21]:
So so diabetes does 2 things. It's it's either and it's usually a combination. It makes it it makes your blood flow reduced.

Jeffrey Stern [00:27:27]:
Mhmm.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:27:28]:
So I can grab a person a healthy person versus a diabetic person's and and this is something Kaplan used to say. I can grab a a skin sample of a healthy person and a and a a skin sample of a diabetic person, and I you'll actually find that the diabetic person's gonna have about 50% less vasculature, like, blood blood vessels, really. And and and the reason for that is is because of the glucose. And so one on one hand, they have less blood flow, which if you think about it, dries up your skin. It makes it more fragile because it has less literal fluid getting to it. And at the same time, it's it also affects their ability to feel their nerves. So you're not feeling it. So your skin's drying up, and it's cracking up, and it's opening up, and you're not feeling this.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:28:09]:
Right? And so I it it and that creates a very, very interesting clinical case. Right? Because it's a very unique thing. Like, it's very very popular, but 500,000,000 people around the world are suffering from this condition. 1 in 4 all of these people, sorry, are are gonna have, right, like, this this fragile skin. Yep. 1 in 4 of these are gonna open up, like, and cause an actual wound. Right? And 1 in 4 of those, like, wounds that open up result in a directly in an amputation or death, like, directly because of that wound. And the reason for that is because they get infected.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:28:46]:
So you have a wound that's open. It get the wound gets infected. If it gets infected, you don't want that infection to spread, so you have to amputate, if it gets too bad. And so that's that's awful. But so, ultimately, finally, I email this this doctor Kaplan with and I tell him, look, this is what I wanna do. I I wanna find a way to put your cells onto the human body with a protein, and that's what I wanna study. And he said, Greg, come to work to me. And and the first thing he really, really told me when when we met really and is was that, hey, I don't take undergrads.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:29:20]:
So, I think it's it's awesome the work you've done, and I'll take you, but you're not gonna be doing wound healing work. If you're gonna come work for me, I want you to work on what I'm doing. And I'm out here focused on cancer. So if you wanted, you know, understand these cells through a different lens and you really wanna get into an entirely different realm of these cells and kind of, like, diverge a little bit from from your wound healing work, which which I was still very passionate about. I'm willing I'm willing to to take you in. On under my wing, you know, you can it was a very circumstantial hire. They needed people because of the COVID pandemic. I was the only one who knew how to do, this thing called immunohistochemistry, which is just just a study of tissue, basically.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:30:07]:
I knew how to study tissue because I had done it for my other role in the University of Sao Paulo. It's like, alright, kid. Like, let's let's figure let's see what you got. And and so that was I worked there. I mean, I I and I worked there every single year of my undergrad at Case until May 2024 when I graduated. And then that so I studied, but I studied them in a different context. Right? So it pushed me to understand cells through a different lens. Right? Because I was thinking about it from, okay, healthy cells, right, in a human body, let's get them to a wound and let's heal that wound and and let's try to prevent that.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:30:45]:
By the way, it turns out that already existed. It didn't work, that solution. So my first prototype would have not worked. And he's like, you know, study it in a cancer setting. Yeah. You know, I I want you to understand how they, yeah, so so that's how it all started going circling slowly into Cleveland, and it changed my life.

Jeffrey Stern [00:31:02]:
Yeah. Evidently. So so so let's layer on to this conversation. Right? So you're you're tackling the chronic wound crisis by building the next generation of tissue engineering therapeutics for wound healing. What what does that mean, and and where does that come from?

Franco Kraiselburd [00:31:21]:
Yeah. It sounds very nebulous when you put it that way. Wait. I think I put it that way.

Jeffrey Stern [00:31:29]:
But let's unpack that, you know, as and, you know, like, what what is what is this business? And and how does a business even come into play with, you know, really what was a seems like a scientific, you know, research path?

Franco Kraiselburd [00:31:43]:
Yeah. So very, very great segue. Working at the Kaplan Lab, there's it's an ecosystem. Alright? It it is an ecosystem, of people, of capital, of of institutions, and and partners in a and of just knowledge and technology all into one small the the the density of in, like, a biology department of Case Western Reserve was incredibly abundant, and I had never seen something like that before. So it it it was to the point where, I mean, I was working together with researchers who had done just about anything you can imagine with these cells in the past, and they all culminated into this one place. Like I said, all roads lead to Cleveland, and it's because this doctor Kaplan, right, Arnold, had culminated this ecosystem of people, extremely smart people, extremely well motivated and driven and and really well focused because they knew exactly what they wanted to do and and how to get there. And so I'm here and, sure, I mean, I'm studying them in a in a cancer context. That was and that was the the project I had there, but but it you you still have that passion.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:32:58]:
You have that itch in your head, and you have that feel, and you start. You go to lunch. It all started going to lunch. This this new guy comes into the lab. He's from Chile. His name's Miguel, and and he's a brilliant researcher. Brilliant guy. Yeah.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:33:14]:
And also very funny. Very funny guy to I mean, he would put, like, music and just dance. And he's like, I thought you were, like, really smart. Like, what is this? And he's like, yeah. Whatever. So it starts you know, it starts shattering what, like, your image of, like, this mad scientist really is because you start realizing that a mad scientist is just a guy who loves science and loves to have fun, and and that was Kaplan too. He was he was very fun. And so, anyway, I'm in this ecosystem.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:33:39]:
And remember, I had a passion. I had a mission. I had a problem that I still wanted to solve. There's still 500,000,000 people in the world that that are at constantly at risk of getting an amputation from from this chronic wound, and and I felt that technology could be the answer. Right? Like, I I knew these cells could be the answer in a way. Yep. And then let me tell you that the biggest issue with these cells is not the cell itself. It's actually getting it to where he needs to go.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:34:09]:
Right? It's it's it's the fact that getting a cell from, like, point a to point b requires either a really complex protein similar to a vaccine that will degrade after a week if you don't keep it at frozen conditions, which is impossible. I mean, well, on vaccines, you know, in the context of, like, a global emergency for COVID, that made sense, but you can't do that for for diabetes and, like, chronic diseases as easily. Or it requires you grabbing cells from one part of your body and putting them in another, but then that means that you have to go to a hospital and spend hours in an operating room setting to do that. Right? Or you just you kinda gotta pray and hope for the best. Right? And so most people, especially in emerging settings, but even here in the US, don't get to the part where they can actually get that cell there. They don't get to go to the hospital and apply a therapy. It's it's not very common. And, unfortunately, the the unfortunate truth to that is because the infrastructure is just so complicated to do so.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:35:11]:
Like and that's why this $30,000 figure really is because because of the sheer amount of time that it takes and the sheer amount of visits that you have to make for a patient to to make to get a treatment. Right? So it's it's not necessarily just that the the sticker price is $30. It's really that everything around it is is it really culminates to that figure. So Yeah. When when I wanted to when I was in that ecosystem and I wanted to solve this problem, I did the National Science Foundation's I Corps Accelerator. Right? So that through the University of Akron Research Foundation. I teamed up with Miguel. Miguel had had done work like this in the past, so he knew a lot, right, about about the clinic clinician perspective.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:35:55]:
And, eventually, Miguel, we had an moment. It was a really crazy thing where

Jeffrey Stern [00:36:01]:
Yeah.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:36:01]:
In one of my Ichor calls, I did a customer interview to doctor Jim McGuire out in Temple University. He's the founder of the Academy of Physicians in One Healing. He is a a very well recognized figure. I just called him and he picked up the phone. I couldn't believe it. And I I just started talking we had, like, an hour and a half long conversation about where the needs are in these these patients and where where, like, different solutions can come in and and where he saw cells and scaffolds coming into the picture because that's what I wanted to do as well. And eventually, Miguel had worked on a technology. So Miguel developed a proof of cell therapy in Chile in his past life, which saves 200 patients.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:36:44]:
My coworker at the Kaplan lab

Jeffrey Stern [00:36:46]:
Yeah.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:36:46]:
Figures out that it's it's about hours, and it's about visits. So if you can reduce the amount of hours and visits, you can reduce the $30,000 figure to weigh less. And at some point, I called Jim Maguire and explained this concept to him. In doing so, we created a platform. We created something that is able to incorporate compounds very, very easily, very verse with a very versatile capabilities. And so all of a sudden, that's cell that's tissue injurious regenerative medicine platform. Right? Like, that is what we do. The the and I was does that make sense a little bit? I I actually am very curious as as as to you might have some question about I probably didn't do a great job of explaining it.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:37:30]:
No. I mean, I Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:37:32]:
To to the best of my abilities, I'm I'm following along. You know, like like in any workflow, you know, my my brain works more in a in a software, you know, kind of orientation. But, you know, if there are steps and you can you can remove those steps but achieve the same outcome, then, you know, you can pursue those and unlock a lot of value in the process of doing it. And if what you've created, that allows you to remove those intermediary steps, other people can use for other purposes, you've unlocked even more value.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:38:03]:
Oh, okay. Exactly. You got it. Exactly. That is exactly it. Amazing.

Jeffrey Stern [00:38:13]:
Lay of

Franco Kreiselberg [00:38:13]:
the Land is brought to you by Impact Architects and by 90. As we share the stories of entrepreneurs building incredible organizations in Cleveland and throughout Northeast Ohio, Impact Architects has helped hundreds of those leaders, many of whom we have heard from as guests on this very podcast, realize their own visions and build these great organizations. I believe in Impact Architects and the people behind it so much that I have actually joined them personally in their mission to help leaders gain focus, align together, and thrive by doing what they love. If you 2 are trying to build great, Impact Architects is offering to sit down with you for a free consultation or provide a free trial through 90, the software platform that helps teams build great companies. If you're interested in learning more about partnering with Impact Architects or by leveraging 90 to power your own business, please go to ia.layoftheland.fm. The link will also be in our show notes.

Jeffrey Stern [00:39:13]:
So this this concept is the foundation for for a sclappy. Yeah. And what

Franco Kraiselburd [00:39:22]:
what is so novel.

Jeffrey Stern [00:39:23]:
What what does a sclappy mean, by the way?

Franco Kraiselburd [00:39:25]:
Oh, yeah. And I'll I'll tell you in in this yeah. So sclappy is a a wordplay. Right? So it's it's the plural. So sclappyus is is the Greek god of medicine. Right? It's known as the healer of all wounds. Very much something that just was very inspiring to me. It was a Greek tale that I thought it was the only so he was he was a doctor, a very, very, very, very good doctor that was so good that he could cure death, and so he eventually he was a a a demigod, and so he got turned into a star.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:39:52]:
He's the only mortal who actually got turned into a god because of his incredible medical abilities. And so aesclepi is a plural of that. It's like we're making a bunch of little aesclepises, and we're making a bunch of little healers of all woods.

Jeffrey Stern [00:40:05]:
Amazing.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:40:06]:
And by the way, I love that you bring this software perspective. You're you're so right. Most people think about it from a software perspective. So but imagine bringing that into cell therapy. Like, imagine bringing concepts of, like, platforms, right, that are often nebulous and really not simple into something that is scalable, simplified, and just doable for a cellular therapy as complicated as $30,000 per wound. Right? And it's like, that's why what what we're doing is is just I'm so passionate about what we're doing. It's it's it feels incredibly powerful, and going to the lab every day is is a pleasure for us.

Jeffrey Stern [00:40:44]:
Right. No. I mean, it reminds there there there are a lot of parallels to draw here. And also a million, you know, threads introduced that we I we won't have time to pull on all of them. But, you know, when I think about the Human Genome Project, for example, which was in the early 2000s, took about 13 years, $3,000,000,000 of computing power and and resources to complete just one. I mean, we're at a point today writing down, you know, Wright's Law basically of innovation where you can do the sequencing of a genome for a few $100 in a few hours. And so we're at a point where I think through kind of, you know, what are what are the limiting reagents of of what allowed us to do this in the first place and and how can we remove those, so that we can do it at a much greater scale. And then the platform idea as well.

Jeffrey Stern [00:41:33]:
Right? Like, when you can when you can sequence many millions of human genomes, you can ask a lot more interesting questions and do a lot more interesting things than when we only had 1.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:41:42]:
Yeah. Absolutely. No. I it's super it's a great parallel to draw.

Jeffrey Stern [00:41:47]:
So I I have to ask one detour question and, you know, we'll we'll we'll constantly ground it back in in this all roads lead to Cleveland, as we, you know, kind of catch ourselves up to the present and and look towards the future. But there's this archetype of founder, I think, in society we hear a lot about, you know, the the Harvard dropout, the the Mark Zuckerbergs, the the Bill Gates of the world who turned down, you you know, for the sake of this conversation, I'll call it a highly prestigious credential in the pursuit of something entrepreneurial. So I don't mean to suggest anything, you know, predictive with this analogy, but I do need to ask, what your thinking was and motivation to turn down a Thiel Fellowship, which in, you know, other pockets of society may be considered, you know, of the highest signal and most competitive credentials that that you can have. So, yeah, I have a I have a feeling, just based on, you know, the the passion you've exuded for for what you're building. But, just take us through that and and how you think about over the course of all of this, what motivates you and and and keeps you focused on on this vision that you have?

Franco Kraiselburd [00:42:57]:
That's an excellent question. That name so it was a lot of conversations that I had. And the real answer I'll tell you right now is Yep. There is no right answer. Yeah. Founders build out of their hunch and their passion and their their their drive, but but for me, there was. And and the reason for that is because it's it's just boils on to people and team and and trust. At the point that that fellowship came into question in my life, I was a junior in college, and I had built a network and an ecosystem of people who not only believed in what we were doing and in the potential that we had to save people's lives, but believed in me and my ability to lead it, and and more so also wanted to see me thrive.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:43:54]:
And so in deep tech, one relies very heavily on university affiliations, PhDs, medical doctors. I mean, you name it. I mean, very just high knowledge individuals. Yep. And the my immediate wish was to take it. I I wanted to stand stand by by the side of giants before me who took it, right, and who did amazing things with it. Notably, for example, Mark Zuckerberg, who became all of that. Right? Like, Meta.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:44:27]:
And and I I mean, on one hand, it was an honor to be able to be there, but at the same time, the people that around me didn't see it the same way that I did or that you would see it. Right? I mean, if you you you tell telling a PhD, someone who values academia very deeply, hey, I wanna drop out of college to do this, That doesn't really instill trust or stability into in their head. As a leader of what was becoming and is now an international consortium for medical innovation based around medical and and very highly advanced stuff, they don't see this as stability. I mean, they don't wanna build an Airbnb or a Facebook or a DoorDash. I mean, we wanna build something that is built upon a foundation of knowledge that is so solid and so carefully crafted that you can't just drop out of college and kind of figure it out type of deal. And Yeah. I I I'm telling you, I wanted to do it so bad. It was it was a very tough conversation with my loved ones, with my mother, with my father, with with my company.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:45:37]:
But to a point, it was it just felt and and we had spoken about it, and and it just felt like half of my team would have lost their trust for me if they did. And and honestly, Jeff, one of the most valuable things and and honestly, the most valuable thing I have, is is the relationships I've built with the people around me and and is my team. I mean, Escleppy is Escleppy because of the team that we have. It would never ever be the same if I just dropped out and figured it out kind of, you know, and and kind of forgot or let's just say, like, betrayed the trust, right, of all the people that have helped me build this. Excellent question. I mean, it's it's people ask me this all of the time, you know, but I just I didn't wanna go that route. I like Cleveland. I don't wanna go to San Francisco right now.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:46:22]:
I've been there. It's awesome. I mean, it's great, but there's just there's so much value in building here. You know?

Jeffrey Stern [00:46:31]:
Well, you're you're pre you're preaching to the choir here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That that certainly resonates. And there's a lot of of wisdom in that. You know? But sir certainly appreciate that the, the gravity and convergence here in Cleveland is is strong. So where where is where is Esclepi today?

Franco Kraiselburd [00:46:51]:
Yeah. So we've built our MVP. We've gathered some very important and great data on it so far, and we're entering what we call preclinical trials. So that is in animals. So we we've gotten the platform. We've partnered with with different universities and partners, and and we've built a a very great traction and momentum. We've raised about $1,000,000, just non dilutive grants and funding to test. So we're testing the platform alone, but we're testing the platform also with different variants.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:47:25]:
Right? So for example, I mentioned infections are a very big driver of of amputations, so we created a version of ARTEMIS with, special silver nanoparticles so that we can combat infections with.

Jeffrey Stern [00:47:36]:
And and ARTEMIS, is is a terminology we've not introduced yet. So you just You're right.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:47:43]:
So Artemis is the name of our scaffold of our platform of our product. So Artemis is our flagship product. Amazing. Yeah. So Artemis is really kind of what Escalapie really culminates into. It's it's the it's the name of this of this platform. Right? It's it's the name of this this vision. Right? And so Artemis itself I actually have it, but obviously, I'll I'll show it to you in person.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:48:07]:
And I know this is there's no visual component to this, but it's it's a it's a it's a blank canvas. Think about it as it's like the stem cell of Sky. It's like you can create Kubula rasa. Right. And so we we're testing it. It's very important to see how it performs on itself to see a baseline and and to see kind of, but we're also collaborating. So we have a very strong collaboration. We're so excited about with with, Case Western Reserve's, like, Center For Modular Manufacturing of Structural Tissue, which at the forefront of tissue engineering innovation, it came it is housed at Kaplan's lab.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:48:39]:
May he rest in peace. He passed away in January. But so we're testing the product now so that it'll be available within a year. So one year from now, you'll be seeing initial sales in units of the first versions of ARTEMIS that we're pushing out. So the the the really the first so the what we're trying to do is, right, we're introducing a pipeline very slowly but very surely. The first product that's very important is what's called a wound bed prep technology. So it's like you're not healing, you're just preparing the wound so that it's it's ready and ripe for healing and that is a third of the way. It's it's a very very important portion of the pro of healing and and then funny funnily enough, a wound bed prep technology can be in any wound.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:49:22]:
It doesn't really need to be a diabetic wound. You can put that anywhere, which is great. And so that's our first one. And then we're introducing our cellular therapy so we're we're taking it up a notch on, like, 2.0 with, like, more advanced stuff. But the the the one point o will be available just to everyone. It's kinda like I mean, we're starting with small clinics, eventually going to hospitals. We're we dream of a future that this can be available over the counter just easily for, like, in Walmart or something. And and we're slowly building out, but but we're what we're we're not in market yet.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:49:52]:
We're just building out the validation. We're we're building out the traction and partnerships and the capital to build data and necessary physician relationships and interactions with the product. And we're building the product so that really I mean, it's it's iterated constantly with input from the users themselves, from the patients, and from the physicians alike, and from the system more broadly. But so so right now, we're in the data collection phase, preclinical trials. We're we're going into kind of more advanced things later next year. But for for now, right now, that's that's what we're looking for. Does that make sense?

Jeffrey Stern [00:50:29]:
Yeah. So with that, if that's level 1, level 2, if you were to, you know, skip ahead to to the end of the book and then, you know or or rather look at the table of contents, what what what are what are levels what's the end level? Like, what is your ultimate vision? What what does success mean? And then what are the the levels preceding that?

Franco Kraiselburd [00:50:51]:
Oh, Jeff. You're gonna like to hear this. It's cool. Oh, it's really, really, really cool.

Jeffrey Stern [00:50:54]:
Through it.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:50:56]:
Organ manufacturing from scratch. Like, oh, I dream of a future where maybe not in your house, but, like, you're you you go to a little microwave and you press a button and you say, I want a liver. And you you, you know, you put a little bit of your DNA or something. You show that or you you even put, like, a biopsy of your own cells. And and in a matter of maybe a week, you have a full organ reconstructed to built for your own specific genetic code. I mean, need a new heart? I dream of a future where no one has to wait for an organ transplant, like, ever again. Mhmm. That's a big one.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:51:38]:
And it's it's it's more so because if you can do organ manufacturing, you can get into eventually, I mean, a plethora of of potentials, applications. I mean, we we've we've talked to the military. We've talked to, I mean, but but for for me, let let's just say, if you can build an orient, you can build anything. Right? You can eventually this whole duplicating yourself thing seems like egressively more possible. We don't feel we don't I don't wanna clone a human being. I don't think that's but I I definitely want, humans to be able to have replaceable organs. Just like, hey. I I need a new liver.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:52:15]:
Let's do that. Let's make that happen. It's a therapy that it's it's realistically accessible and and doable. Can can you can you can you imagine yourself one day being told, hey, honestly, your liver is failing. You're you're at risk. Go to the hospital and get get exchanged for a new liver. And you go to the and and in 2 to 2 weeks between you being told that you don't have a liver, that that that it will be that is healthy, and and you go into the hospital, in 2 weeks, you have a new liver completely done. That is and it's your your genetic material, your own cells.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:52:51]:
That's what I'm talking about.

Jeffrey Stern [00:52:53]:
I mean, it it it is one of the most ambitious ideas I have ever heard, just simple as that. It on this spectrum so if that's if that's the you know, of the potential end states and and the goal and the vision, On the spectrum of science fiction to science reality, how achievable is this? And then, you know, to kinda reiterate, like, what are the the antecedents to that, the the other levels, along that path?

Franco Kraiselburd [00:53:24]:
Yeah. And let me tell you, it's very, very doable. The problem with it it is. It is. It's from a scientific perspective, this isn't this isn't delusional. Yeah. I'll I'll be very honest and say that the biggest challenge is actually scaling it. It's making it scalable and accessible, and that's what Acelope is at the forefront of.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:53:42]:
We're we're not in the business of pushing so we like to say that we're pushing tissue engineering, right, and regenerative medicine to new horizons. We're not we're not just pushing the science part, which is great, but we're in the business of making it accessible and available then and scalable, really. I mean, obviously, I don't I don't wanna be too blunt and say, I mean, obviously, we're we're creating very cool med med innovation, but, like, the fact is we're we're from the cradle of this technology is we're making it so that it's easy. So let me let me tell you where where we're at right now in terms of society. In fact, our partners at Case Western at the Center For For Module Manufacturing are partnered with, like, Mayo Clinic regenerative medicine and biomanufacturing labs. They're partnered with the advanced regenerative medicine I'm sorry, advanced regenerative manufacturing institute. They're partnered with I mean, they're so and they're doing so for right now, case what what have I told you that right now, Case Western is looking to build a a limb, like, a, sorry, a joint from scratch in the next, like, 5 years? Like, that's what's happening now. I mean, that is what our partners are doing.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:54:50]:
Right? We're inserted in that ecosystem because we're trying to solve their headaches, and we're we're we're really looking to help push their their innovations forward. But that's what's happening now. Right? So so the the first let's just say the first examples of completely artificial joints or or organs are are going to happen within the next 5 years. Realist I mean, I will barely be 30, like, honestly. Yeah. And from there, the question becomes, how do you make it scalable? And and that very simply, if from from a I'm a tissue engineer that I see myself as that. I mean and and it it boils down to 3 main components. It's very, very, very simple.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:55:35]:
It is cells. It is like, the cells are the building block of life. It's stimuli, which, is the language that your body speaks. It's like electricity or proteins or whatever you want, temperature. All these are different stimuli for your cells. And then the last part is the central piece of the puzzle, which is what a scleppy does is the scaffolding, right, portion. It's it's the mesh that holds it all together into 1. That's really what tissue is.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:55:59]:
That's it's super simple. It's called the tissue engineering triad. And and so the real secret lies in a really good scaffold, that can maximize the interactions between the cells in order to achieve I mean, think think about a scaffold. I like to think about a scaffold as an orchestra, like a symphony. Right? Because if a scaffold has all of the right notes and they're all of the right intensity and length, you your cells, they it's almost as if they're they're perfectly orchestrated to know exactly what they're gonna turn into. It's it's like think about it as an embryo. An embryo is a weird scaffold. This is weirdly very well done, but it's it's it's a scaffold.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:56:41]:
That's that's how we build humans. I mean, humans build humans all of the time. It's just a matter of time until we do that as well.

Jeffrey Stern [00:56:48]:
I love that you think of yourself as a tissue engineer. And, you know, correct me if I'm wrong in this framing, but it's it's almost like entrepreneurship is really just a tool for you to accomplish your goal as a tissue engineer. But I would love to understand what you've learned about company building and that side of it, you know, outside of the scientific and academic, you know, tracks that that you've been trotting through over the the last, you know, many years.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:57:20]:
Yeah. Let's get into the business. I mean, I do see myself as a tissue engineer. I'm a biomedical engineer, like, a from Case Western. So, obviously, I have a very technical background, but I took on the business role of this new company. And so I I've learned a lot about business, about entrepreneurship. And I'll tell you, well, for me personally in my journey, especially within this company, I I see entrepreneurship as a means to an end, and and that is true. I've come to learn that entrepreneurship is is is far beyond just a means to an end, though.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:57:51]:
I think it is it's it's a very, very necessary and useful tool. It's a way of looking at the world in a way that is not that is different, let's just say, from from what exists. I mean, it's literally it's the act the entrepreneurship is is challenging the status quo, whatever that may be. Right? Yep. I think and and by the way, obviously, I'll tell you 10 years down the line if this is this worked out or do not, but but we had to I'm a 22 year old. I I love to say this. I'm a 22 year old. I'm 22 years old leading a health care company.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:58:24]:
Yeah. Not just in my I'm a I'm a first time founder.

Franco Kreiselberg [00:58:28]:
Yeah.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:58:29]:
I'm a first time founder, and you look at my youthful face, and that doesn't really instill knowledge or confidence or I mean, it does. Don't get me wrong. I think very, very, very people way smarter than me have have believed in me a lot more than I have. I don't know why. I love them. No. But but, seriously, when I first went out to seek help and capital to do this, it wasn't an easy conversation because, you know, at first, when you don't know who I am, you're like, alright. Well, why are you the best person in the world to lead this? Because that's often a question that is in entrepreneurship, you have to be the best person in the world to make this happen.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:59:05]:
And now and now it's very, very clear, but when it started, it wasn't as clear, I think. And so we leveraged we we walked into rooms, and this this is actually my biggest piece of advice to any entrepreneur is if you are walking into a room where you don't feel appreciated, you're in the wrong room. Like, objectively, I walked into a room at in Ohio. Let's just say generically at first at first. I walked into a room in Ohio, and I asked for money to do an MVP for Artemis. Hey. We're Ascleppy. We wanna we wanna really tackle, like, the diabetic foot ulcer problem.

Franco Kraiselburd [00:59:40]:
We, you know, we work with with, these scientists and and these entrepreneurs, and we we wanna do it. And for many reasons, capital was risk averse for us at at first. It was tough to get. I mean, it's because because just the amount the sheer and and rightfully so, the sheer amount of risk that someone would have to intake, I was 20 years old at the time promising them that I would be able to make an MVP in 3 months if they give me 3 months 20 grand. That's what I was saying. And and, I mean, it was just you know, you know how many other Cleveland Clinic awesome physicians there are here for them to also could realistically also do that in 3 months and 20 grand? I mean, for and they already have their own labs. So why so that was the thing is, like, in Ohio at first, I had I had a hard time. I had a lot of no's, and that that really, really brought me, like, it empowered me, to keep going.

Franco Kraiselburd [01:00:34]:
And so I went to Mexico. So funny, really crazy story. I mean, I connect Case Western paid for me to go to a conference in Puerto Rico. The Puerto Rican conference had some people from MIT. I connected with the MIT people. I pitched to them. They were like, hey. Listen.

Franco Kraiselburd [01:00:49]:
I can't do this in my lab, but this is something that my really good friend out in Mexico at the Tech de Monterrey Institute, it's like the MIT of Mexico, can do. And so I pitched their tech transfer director. Yeah. I'm like, hey. This is what I wanna do. And and Mexico is, like, the one of global capitals of diabetes. It is a terrible, like, terrible incident. It has a terrible incidence of diabetes.

Franco Kraiselburd [01:01:11]:
And so they saw, but they didn't just see the potential of what I was doing from a scientific perspective. They said they saw a kid in the US with US connections that could all of a sudden also just introduce a strong partnership for them. So I walked into a room where I wasn't just a kid in Ohio competing with Cleveland Clinic Physicians. I was someone with a US connection that could potentially really solve many of their own headaches on top of creating disruptive innovation. Right? Or I I hate that con I mean, I love the word, but it's, like, it's it's just so overused. I'll just say innovation technology. Sure. They were like, I love this.

Franco Kraiselburd [01:01:48]:
And they gave me the $20 in the 3 months. And they were like, well, but if you don't fulfill if you don't do it, you know, the stakes were very high because obviously there were, you know but I did. I did. I went there. I actually took I won a pitch competition here in Cleveland, the Morgan Thiller Pavey start up competition 2023. We got 2nd place in the venture track out of, like, 40 something companies. Got 5 grand. That 5 grand paid for me to go to Mexico, spend 3 months there, and and we just we did our MVP.

Franco Kraiselburd [01:02:17]:
We got some initial data on it. We were able to prove that we were not completely incompetent, and that's how it all started. From that, that transformed into a $500,000 grant, another $300,000 investment, and we just actually got into Capital Factory's all access fund, from Texas. So, like, we were getting connected to many investors, and it just all became all because of 1 MVP that we were able to prove to that to them that we were able to build. And and now next thing you know, I mean, I'm I've become somewhat of a of an advocate for young entrepreneurs in deep tech in the world, but in Latin America and in Northeast Ohio and the US, specifically, I mean, it's it's been awesome.

Jeffrey Stern [01:03:00]:
Yeah. Amazing. I love all of this. It's, it's hard to even figure out how to, you know, put a a bow on this conversation. You know, I I really genuinely feel like we could talk for many hours about this. But, well, I'll I'll ask you. It's not really even a fair question. But as you reflect on this journey you've been on, the the path still in front of you, what are the most important things we haven't talked about?

Franco Kraiselburd [01:03:30]:
Well, I think, you know, I'm not gonna hammer down on the Cleveland's awesome part. I think you did you did a great job of that. Actually, I'll tell you something I learned from you that I loved to to learn recently. When when I went to your event, it was, the power of connection is is so huge. I think in my journey as an entrepreneur, the only reason I've been able to achieve and and I've I would say, I mean, I'm I'm super proud of what we've done so far, but the only reason we've been able to achieve what we've we've got, I mean, we've raised a $1,000,000 before I graduated college. It was it was a lot, but it's just because of genuine, like, authentic connection with with people. I mean, we I was very candid, and I think honesty is a huge deal. I think, like, that was something that I don't think I make clear enough is, like, I I genuinely believe anyone can do it, but they just have to be passionate, and they have to be genuinely honest about where they're at and, like, how to keep going.

Franco Kraiselburd [01:04:28]:
And, but I think also there's a portion of there's so much iteration in this process. I mean, my mind was very open, but it's I don't think that's something that's super common in in entrepreneurship is, like, having an open mind has to be very deliberate. I learned that a lot through, like, the I Corps methodology. I very much respect the National Science Foundation's program for that. That was that was great.

Jeffrey Stern [01:04:49]:
Yeah.

Franco Kraiselburd [01:04:49]:
But I don't know. What, I guess, like, for me that that just as as other entrepreneurs listen to this, that's kind of I I'm I'm actually curious in learning more about what what you think of that, like, specifically. Right?

Jeffrey Stern [01:05:02]:
Well, for 1, I I I really appreciate that sentiment and and that has been meaningful for you because that was the goal. You know? The when I was trying to build my own company here, I was kind of surprised by how few of the folks who have opted to do this very difficult thing of trying to build a company, you know, regardless of what the problem is. It it could be, you know, organ manufacturing and tissue regeneration, or it could be, you know, cabinet manufacturing. You know, it it doesn't matter actually. But it's a very difficult thing to to build something from scratch and to solve a real problem for people. And the only folks who can truly empathize are the other people who are going through that. And to the degree that you have a community of those people around you, whatever it is, it's incredibly important as part of the journey, especially from a a leadership perspective within the company because you kind of have to always put on this, you know, outward facing facade of of confidence, you know, grounded in the humility of whatever it is you're solving. But, you know, you you can't run through all the challenges of your organization within, you know, you often need folks outside of it to to bounce ideas and to get, like, true unfettered, honest, takes about the realities of of what are happening.

Jeffrey Stern [01:06:24]:
And so that community part to me is very important. And it's not only important. I I think to your point, it is requisite. Like, you you need it it takes a village. I I truly believe that. And so to the to the degree that we can build this village, you know, that that is is, is a very motivating thing for for me personally outside of any of the individual work that that I get to do. And what you also mentioned there that I think deeply resonates is is the passion for whatever it is that that you're solving because, I mean, I I could tell you, I I could work my entire life on what it is you're trying to do. And I wouldn't even get to where you were from the time that you became 14 to 16, you know, like that that level of passion.

Jeffrey Stern [01:07:12]:
I would just bang my head against the wall for 40 years before, I made the kind of progress that you did on this specific problem. And and and so that that ingredient really does matter as well.

Franco Kraiselburd [01:07:24]:
No. I guarantee you if if you actually put your head to it, I'm sure you you can do great things with it, but I I definitely agree with with passion. Yeah. Definitely. And and connection. I mean, I I'm it's funny because you say this, you know, like, I've had so many conversations both here in the US and and abroad with great founders, just candid conversations about, hey, this is where I'm at. Like, I don't and and in fact, mentorship, like, I always like to say that I stand on the shoulders of giants, like, with everything I do. And and they always those giants are some of them are the same, like doctor doctor Kamlin Arnold is always going to be a giant for you, but then there's new people that come along the way, like entrepreneurs that I need along the way that just truly just change the way I see things.

Franco Kraiselburd [01:08:01]:
And and I think another part is just believing in what you do. You're right. The the facade is a big it's like, I don't yeah. And, funnily enough, I actually don't think that I do much of a facade in terms of, like, you know, I mean, I let I like and I generally believe what I said, but but but I definitely think that that's actually a blessing and a curse because the fact there's not a facade means that when I'm not feeling confident about it, it's it's apparent. And and sometimes it's scary, you know. I mean, one one is young. 1 I mean, I don't know, like, if I'm doing the right thing or sometimes I I wonder if, like, hey, is it the is the fact that I have to travel to all these different partners and countries now because we've leveraged international partnerships good or bad. I see it as a great thing, but I can also understand how it could be stressful and and diverge attention.

Franco Kraiselburd [01:08:52]:
So it's it's a constant conversation of trying to, like, understand and believe what we're doing, you know, and I think it's huge. Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [01:09:01]:
Well, and I'll I'll, I you know, I think there there there are benefits to the naivety of doing this, you know, when you're young. You know? So almost every, of the biographies, less from the podcast, but of of founders I have read, you know, there's a a perennial reflection that is, you know, had they known what they know now when they were starting it, they wouldn't have done it because it's so hard and it required so much persistence. And it takes that true genuine curiosity about whatever it is you're trying to solve and the the passion to try and solve it to to force your way through, you know, the whole journey.

Franco Kraiselburd [01:09:39]:
I would not do it. It's funny because my parents want me to be a serial entrepreneur, serial founder. I'm like, girl, I am not going mad at this again. This is a lot. Yeah. You wanna ask me what my favorite hidden gem in Cleveland is?

Jeffrey Stern [01:09:53]:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I I would love to bookend it there as as our traditional closing question. But I I do I I do feel compelled to ask, you know, this this standing on the shoulders of giants. You mentioned doctor Kaplan passed away this year, you know, and I'm my condolences, because he he's evidently meant so much to you. It's it's, you know, more than clear from this conversation. You know, what what are your biggest learnings and and takeaways from him as a a mentor and person in your life?

Franco Kraiselburd [01:10:22]:
Oh, that is a great question. He had he had his his rules. He had, like, a set of rules. But rule number 1, you're not gonna believe this. Rule number 1 is scientists cannot be CEOs. That is his rule number 1. That's true. The great Arnold Kaplan, the first thing he told me when I told him I was gonna start a company is, like, you're delusional, dude.

Franco Kraiselburd [01:10:51]:
Go get a PhD or something. I mean, he loves me to death, and I I mean, I love the guy, but, someone who I deeply admired and respected. And and mind you, he started a company called Osiris Therapeutics that sold in 2019 for $660,000,000. I mean, he knows a thing or 2 about creating real value, and his first piece of advice to me was scientists cannot be CEOs. And I think my biggest lesson of them all, the mother of all lessons I have ever learned from from Arnold, and I say this so lovingly, and he knows I mean, he would he knows this. You know? But it's to be stubborn as hell. It's, in fact, I gave him one of the last conversations I had with him was, I I gave it a twist. I thought about it, what he was saying, and I said, you're right.

Franco Kraiselburd [01:11:41]:
Scientists can't be CEOs, but CEOs can be scientists. And and for that moment, it's true. Right? And and I oh, I thought about that one for a long time, and and so the last one of the last things he said to me was, I see what you're doing now, kid. Like, I I get it. And, I mean, if it was up to what he wanted me to be, he had so much love and admiration and respect for me, but he would have wanted me to take a different path in life. I mean, if it were up to him, I would have been a biology major or something. And and I think to a certain degree, the biggest lesson I learned from Arnold Kaplan was probably that you make your own path, and that is beautiful, and that is okay, and you don't have to listen to what everyone says as as no matter how much you respect them and love them. And and, honestly, like, I mean, don't be too stubborn.

Franco Kraiselburd [01:12:33]:
I mean, it's obviously, like, you know, don't be ignorant. But, you know, if if if there if you don't feel compelled enough to drop what you're doing, then don't. You know, I I have zero regrets in this in immense journey, all the the effort we've done, and and I mean and we I thought I've given up so many times. Like, you know, I mean, the first no I got when I was looking for that 3 month, like, $20 per m MVP money, I almost gave up, and I I'm so glad that I didn't because I was stubborn. So I think that was the biggest lesson for sure.

Jeffrey Stern [01:13:07]:
Well, I I love your your gumption and your humility. And I think I think, you know, you've got you've got wisdom beyond your years.

Franco Kraiselburd [01:13:17]:
There's no there's

Jeffrey Stern [01:13:17]:
no doubt about it to me. Well, you you know the, traditional closing question, so I'll I'll throw it your way.

Franco Kraiselburd [01:13:24]:
I was waiting for it. And you know what? I I thought about it a lot, because I I I wanna I I kinda wanna give 2 answers. Sure. One is for entrepreneurs, and one is for just for the personal side, which is a very big deal. I think keep having a personal life is very important as an entrepreneur. My first answer is Sears Thinkbox. I do not think that place is nearly as appreciated or or known as it should be. It is a force of nature.

Franco Kraiselburd [01:13:52]:
Thinkbox is amazing, and it is open to the community. Yeah. Any day anyone wants to just work out of their 6th floor entrepreneurship, you you can. It's open there, like, 9 to 7 or something. It's great. And the people there are just spectacular. Major shout out to Michael Goldberg and Tiffany McNamara who've who've been my mentors for a very long time, and I really appreciate it. So that was that was the the half I have to give this answer because I love this place, but then my second answer is I'm I'm a very big coffee guy.

Jeffrey Stern [01:14:23]:
Yeah.

Franco Kraiselburd [01:14:23]:
And Algebra Tea House out in Little Italy, has been I mean, they they serve great coffee and great food, and I've I've I've very much enjoyed just thinking of, like, just going there and just enjoying. It's it's very, like, award winning place. You know? They're very well decorated, and and I I've enjoyed just thinking about it, like, thinking in there, having conversations. So that's my second one.

Jeffrey Stern [01:14:47]:
Two excellent ones. Full full cosign on on both of those places. Well, wow. You know, I'm inspired. I I really appreciate you, taking the time, Franco. This is this is awesome. I I love your ambition. I I love that you love Cleveland.

Jeffrey Stern [01:15:02]:
I love that you're doing it here. And so thank you.

Franco Kraiselburd [01:15:06]:
Thank you for having me. Thank you for your time. Thank you for all you do for the city. I also spend a lot of time in New York, so, I understand the the dichotomy. My mom lives there. And and hey. No. I I I'm very glad to be part of this ecosystem, and and I I'll say I was very nervous at first getting into this.

Franco Kraiselburd [01:15:24]:
I was I I get blanked many times just because this is, like, something that for me is, like, a way of immortalizing, like, you know, this conversation will be immortal in in some way. So I think, I very much appreciate the the ability to be here, and and I really, really I hope this was valuable for for anyone out there listening that that might just, be interested, and and feel free to reach out. Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [01:15:49]:
Well, it was certainly valuable to me as as a listener to you. So I can I can give you that right off the bat?

Franco Kraiselburd [01:15:55]:
Thank you. Yeah. CEOs can be scientists.

Jeffrey Stern [01:16:01]:
Well, if folks had anything they wanted to follow-up with you about, Franco, where would where would be the best place for them to to do so? Yeah. LinkedIn. LinkedIn is

Franco Kraiselburd [01:16:09]:
is a big one for me. Yeah. Perfect. Absolutely.

Jeffrey Stern [01:16:12]:
Alright. Well, that's a wrap.

Franco Kreiselberg [01:16:16]:
That's all for this week. Thank you for listening. We'd love to hear your thoughts on today's show, so if you have any feedback, please send over an email to jeffrey@layoftheland.fm or find us on Twitter at podlayoftheland or @sternjefe, j e f e. If you or someone you know would make a good guest for our show, please reach out as well and let us know. And if you enjoy the podcast, please subscribe and leave a review on iTunes or on your preferred podcast player.