#186: Andrew Rising (Encore Venture Labs) — Bridging Cleveland's Industrial Heritage To Its Industrial Future

Andrew Rising [00:00:00]:
We're starting to see this American dynamism zeitgeist take place, which is it's it's encouraging. Right? And I think we're extremely well positioned to to fulfill that and then to have almost this industrial renaissance where, you know, we like to say our tagline is bridging the gap between the region's industrial heritage and its industrial future. I think that starts with us. Right?

Jeffrey Stern [00:00:24]:
Let's discover what people are building in the greater Cleveland community. We are telling the stories of Northeast Ohio's entrepreneurs, builders, and those supporting them. Welcome to the lay of the land podcast where we are exploring what people are building in Cleveland and throughout Northeast Ohio. I am your host, Jeffrey Stern. And today, I had the real pleasure of speaking with Andrew Rising, CEO of Encore Venture Labs. As soon as I met Andrew, I knew that one day he would come on the podcast when the time is right, and I am very excited that that time has now come. As someone who believes deeply in the opportunity for Cleveland's future, I find Andrew's journey to be an inspiring and optimistic one, deeply rooted in the heart of Cleveland's west side where he grew up before embarking on a decade long adventure in the Bay Area, a place where innovation and venture capital converge to create world changing technologies. Andrew has spent his career at the intersection of talent and venture capital from Google to Adapar to Redpoint Ventures, ultimately carving out a unique path that led him to cofound and successfully exit a start up to human capital in one of the most competitive ecosystems in the world.

Jeffrey Stern [00:01:38]:
But despite his success on the West Coast, Cleveland was always his home. In a full circle moment, Andrew returned to his hometown in 2,022, bringing with him a wealth of experience and a vision to bridge the gap between Cleveland's rich industrial heritage and its promising industrial future. Today, he is leading the charge as the founder of Encore Venture Labs, a venture studio dedicated to revitalizing the region's legacy by harnessing current macro trends with the region's unique attributes. Andrew's story is one of return, of reinvestment, and of a deep commitment to driving the next wave of growth in Northeast Ohio. I am proud to consider Andrew a friend, and I'm excited to share some of his reflections and experience. So please enjoy my conversation with Andrew Rising after a brief message from our sponsor. Leave the land is brought to you by John Carroll University's Boulder College of Business, widely recognized a dynamic and innovative mindset, deep understanding of emerging technologies and systems, strong ethics, leadership prowess, acute business acumen, all qualities nurtured through the Buhler College of Business. With 4 different MBA programs of study spanning professional, online, hybrid, and 1 year flexible, the Bohler College of Business provides flexible timelines in various class structures for each MBA track, including online, in person, hybrid, and asynchronous, all to offer the most effective options for you, including the ability to participate in an elective international study tour, providing unparalleled opportunities to expand your global business knowledge by networking with local companies overseas and experiencing a new culture.

Jeffrey Stern [00:03:33]:
The career impact of a bowler MBA is formative and will help prepare you for this future of business and get more out of your career. To learn more about John Carroll University's Buller MBA programs, please go to business.jcu.edu. The Buller College of Business is fully accredited by AACSB International, the highest accreditation a college of business can have. So I was thinking about where the best place to start is. And so one day, I knew you would be sharing your story on this podcast, and so I I'm glad that this day is finally upon us. When I think about the new vanguard of entrepreneurs in Cleveland, who, as we have talked about before, are trying to raise the collective bar of ambition and recognize kind of this culture of excellence within Cleveland and throughout the region, you are always top of mind. And I often cite your stories to other people as, like, you know, where some of my own optimism about this place comes from. And so I don't wanna lead, you know, the witness too much here and and spoil the telling of your own story.

Jeffrey Stern [00:04:44]:
But the power of the boomerang concept is one that I feel is best exemplified in your journey. And so I am excited to to listen to it in a in a way that that you've thought about it and and reflected on it thus far.

Andrew Rising [00:05:01]:
Yeah, Jeff. It's great to be here, and I know we've we've kind of been friends for almost just over 2 years at this point, I think. I I shot you a connection request when I was living in San Jose in early 2022, I think, knew knowing that I would be moving back to Cleveland, and you were doing this lay of the land podcast, and I thought it was incredible. And sure enough, we had some mutual connections and then jumped on a call. I think you were still at actual at that point, and then, you know, we kinda just hit it off. And then I moved back, and we've been been friends ever since. So it's it's it's really exciting to be on the pod, and and thanks for having me. Just to go into the the background.

Andrew Rising [00:05:36]:
Yeah. You know, born and raised a Clevelander, grew up on the west side of Cleveland in Lakewood and in North Ridgeville, went to Saint Ignatius, studied finance at Ohio University. By virtue of going to Ohio University and having a decent amount of fun there, I was not getting any looks from the structured products division of Goldman Sachs, and, that's okay with me because I was actually getting really interested at organizational development, organizational design, how you incentivize individuals to reach overarching objectives. I think, you know, by virtue of being in finance for a little while, I it's very easy to say on a spreadsheet, hey. We need to increase our gross margins by 8% this quarter or this year or whatever. But incentivizing the individuals on the teams that can actually drive those outcomes is the much, much, much more difficult part. So got into the talent world through that vector, was working with companies in Chicago in aerospace and automotive, like, working with the Northrop Grumman's of the world, working with the Ford and the Ford stamping plan, the south side of Chicago. And then, you know, companies as as small as the ones that make the gears on the Chinook helicopters, North Star Aerospace of the world.

Andrew Rising [00:06:45]:
But it was it was fascinating to partner with these plants and these plant managers and these production supervisors that were really trying to organize their teams to hit an overarching objective, whether that be on production or or whatever. So I had a ton of fun there, but got a shout out from the West Coast to to go work at Google and build engineering teams out there, and that was a huge opportunity for me. 1, I I wanted to fulfill this personal manifest destiny to to go out to the West Coast and compete with the best and the brightest. But it was also just, you know, when you get a shout from Google, it's it's pretty hard to say no. And it was a wonderful, wonderful experience there getting to work on their main campus, helping them build their software engineering teams. And I I thought the the interesting piece relative to talents there was, you know, versus the Chicago big broad shoulder industrial society versus Google, hypertech, all that fun Silicon Valley world is, hey. You know, instead of being at Ford and saying, hey. We need a production supervisor for this shift at this time, and we're gonna pay them this number.

Andrew Rising [00:07:47]:
Instead, it was Google saying, hey. Go find the smartest human being on the face of the earth, and we will figure out what to do with them. And so that just totally shifted your mentality around what the type of quality and talent and caliber was, and it was just a very, very interesting and dynamic place to be. This is back in 2013 when when things were still really cool and fun and exciting at Google. So really, really enjoyed my time there. After that, I I had the opportunity to really marry my my understanding and passion for finance with my ability to build what I deemed to be world class engineering and and technical talent teams. And so I I came across this company called Adipar. It is a wealth management technology, really originally focused on the RIAs or the single family offices or the multifamily offices, all stemmed around, like, a unified data platform to provide insights in real time.

Andrew Rising [00:08:37]:
And in the financial world, when when you're dealing with these massively complex portfolios of anything relative to, you know, different asset classes, different custodians, different currencies, crazy ownership structures. It was a very, very nuanced problem and a very fun problem to to go after. And and some of the folks that have come out of Anapar have just been absolutely amazing. Like, I think Alexander Wang was was one of the interns when I was there who runs Scale AI, now, know, north of a $12,000,000,000 valuation. Scott Wu, who runs Cognition AI, I don't know if you've seen that come around recently with this, like, AI engineer who's called Devon. They've, I think, reached a $2,000,000,000 valuation within 6 months of starting the company. Like, these guys were our interns at that point, so

Jeffrey Stern [00:09:20]:
it was a a ton of fun.

Andrew Rising [00:09:21]:
But at any rate, yeah, my my mandate there was was jumping on board as the 50th employee, helping them scale up their product and engineering organization, really working directly with the CEO, the CFO, the CTO to to ensure that we are building the teams the right way such that we can, you know, get to that next mark. And in that world, it was it was the next fundraise or it was the next ARR target, or it was in fact increasing a gross margin percentage, which, alluded to before. But at any rate, yeah, it was a ton of fun. I think that the biggest win there, though, I will say, is, I I had the opportunity to meet my wife at Annapar. So that was easily the biggest win, and and and we'll both celebrate, hopefully, a liquidity event at some point. But, they're right now sitting around a $2,200,000,000 valuation, which is a good good good deal, and hopefully, we'll see a lot more there. So after that, joined a venture capital firm called Redpoint Ventures, $4,000,000,000 AUM fund at that point. They've invested in things all the way back to, like, TiVo with you know, some of the listeners remember when you could actually pause live TV.

Andrew Rising [00:10:23]:
That was a a wild experience. But they, you know, were involved in Stripe and some other, you know, big names as well. My mandate there was was and now, like, around 2016, 2017, a lot of the venture firms on Sand Hill Road were were really going after a lot of the similar subsets of companies. Like, there is this competition inside of the VC firms on in in Menlo Park and in sand on Sand Hill Road that, you know, how can you win deals versus other ones? You know, you see the founders fund, hence the name founders fund is is, you know, we will never go against a founder that we wanna partner with. A lot of other firms use services. You know, you've got the Andreessen Horowitz that have, you know, 50, 60 people, talent, and services teams or platform teams as they're determined now. That was becoming a huge area, and then I I knew I wanted some exposure into Venture in some capacity. I was just fascinated by it, and this was my opportunity to to jump into it.

Andrew Rising [00:11:18]:
So Redpoint Ventures, awesome people. You know, every single person I met there was was a world class thinker and also just, an unbelievable investor. So they've done a really nice job on the enterprise side, and and my mandate was really to work with my early stage portfolio and it being pre seed seed series a, sometimes getting into the series b, really helping those individuals and those teams think through how they could scale their organizations most effectively. And so I would be sitting in, you know, meetings with some of the partners on on Mondays in in Menlo Park in my world class 3000 or 3 I guess I I think it was 3000 Sand Hill Road was our address at Redpoint. And, you know, the most expensive real estate in the world, and then I'd drive up and go hang out with, like, one of the series a companies that we just invested in. It It was working out of just the absolute worst part of San Francisco where, you know, you have to be pretty well protected in order to, survive out there, but it was a a ton of fun and a really interesting amazing contrast, but really, really fun experience watching teams go from that true 0 to 1 or once they've raised their 1st round of funding, how they think about finding product market fit. Just really, really interesting dynamics there and then helping them coach their mentality around, you know, how to think about scaling and acquiring and incentivizing the world class talent to join them and to to build with them. So that was a ton of fun.

Andrew Rising [00:12:36]:
At Redpoint, I met a guy named Archit Beese who was a, again, just fantastic human being and unbelievable thinker. MITCS, Harvard Business School. He, was an associate on the team at that point and started a company called Wellframe that that had done really well out of MIT. Then he would come over to my desk, and we would kind of jam on what the recruiting world and and general, like, global staffing world would look like over, you know, the next decade or so. And he's like, hey. I've got this tool called, like, GPT 2.5 that we should tinker around with. I think it's pretty interesting. And we're we this is back when, like, Google could, like you couldn't really fill the sentences, but this thing could.

Andrew Rising [00:13:12]:
You could basically go in and say like, type an email that says this and, like, it would somewhat fill, like, a paragraph and that was it. But nothing like the the the capability we have now. But, you know, when you see that, you're like, oh my god. This is this is going to fundamentally change how this entire industry operates. And so our thesis was, if you could effectively automate everything in the back office that a recruiter or a staffing individual or even an executive search individual does such that you're empowering the human to do what they do best, which is talking to candidates and customers, I I think you have a potential business there. So we we started that business. Left Redpoint started that business, raised a little bit of cash, ran some really interesting experiments. I think one of the ways that we we train one of the more fun experiments was hiring, like, 20 South African copywriters.

Andrew Rising [00:14:01]:
They have just this, like, wonderful prose and this ability to to to communicate effectively. And so we basically said, here. It's like, take a 1,000 LinkedIn profiles. We want you to write hyper personalized messages to each of these individuals such that they can train our models that when we click on your profile, Jeff Stern, Cornell, like, we can write a beautiful, well thought out email within one click by virtue of, you know, taking all these wonderful, wonderful copywriters, pros, and then then their ability to to write hyper personalized messages. And, it was a it was a cool cool experiment with that and tons of fun. And, yeah, we ran that business for about 3 years, built some really interesting technology with that. Eventually got that business acquired, and then I I ended up joining a venture capital firm called Human Capital, world class institution with them. They've it was really created by 2 guys that 2 Stanford grads that recognized 2 things, smart people know smart people and talent drives outcomes, hence the name Human Capital.

Andrew Rising [00:14:58]:
And and and my role as an operating partner there was relatively similar to what it was at at Redpoint Ventures, albeit, you know, I got to work a lot closer with some of the the the series a and series b companies that I was super interested in working with. And so, you know, built great relationships there and had a wonderful time. And and I think, you know, that that venture firm is is absolutely crushing it right now. So luckily, we got we got that business acquired. Surprisingly, like, again, in a stroke of luck or I'm I'm forever blessed or or whatever it might be, but the ink got dry on our acquisition deal on March 2, 2020, which is, you know, extremely lucky. If that doesn't take place, I doubt I'm talking to you here, Jeff. But, yeah. No.

Andrew Rising [00:15:38]:
All all good things. I jumped on as a operating partner at human capital, and and have been there, really, you know, for the last three and a half years. And then I I moved back to Cleveland, in June of 2022, still working there, but, I think that's when when we got together. We we started to meet.

Jeffrey Stern [00:15:54]:
And it it comes full circle. I mean, it's really a a rocket ship of a career trajectory and and journey that you've been on. And I actually haven't even heard you kinda lay it all out like that, but the I think it's made a lot more things to me make sense about the journey you are on. I mean, really, the proximity to to talent that you've had throughout it, the kind of all of it embedded in the Silicon Valley ethos of it. I mean, there are many questions I want to ask as we make our way towards Encore Ventures and the work you're doing now. But even just to set a bit more of the stage Sure. What drew you to entrepreneurship in the first place? Yeah. It's a it's a good question and kind of

Andrew Rising [00:16:44]:
a, like, a an interesting interesting answer. You know, for lack of better term, I was a terrible student. I just I just sucked at I mean, I I was fine, actually. I was actually, like, you know, relatively intelligent, but I just I didn't believe in any of the stuff that I was doing. Like, I just didn't care, and that's a horrible thing to say now and then probably not something my investors wanted to hear. But at any rate, like, I I think until you really find that thing that, like, lights a fire under you, it it it's it's very difficult to try and just slog through. I was sharp enough. I went to a Montessori school in in grade school from pre k to to 8th grade and to to to until Ignatius.

Andrew Rising [00:17:25]:
And, you know, we didn't have grades, but we had one test at the end of every year. And I knew, you know, I was gonna do pretty okay on that test, and I don't think I ever got less than, like, a 93 or 94% on those standard achievement tests that would allow you to, you know, move on to the next level. So, like, the whole year, yes, you needed to learn and you need to do well on tests, but there was no f's or there was nothing there. It was just this end of year test that, you know, I knew I was gonna be able to be okay on. And I wanna learn about this stuff, but I genuinely wanted to learn it. I actually love the Montessori mentality. I think it's super, super sharp. I think you're getting elevated a little bit more, and I'm I'm excited to see what what future of education actually looks like.

Andrew Rising [00:18:00]:
But going back to what actually did light that fire under me, so my mom and dad have been split up since I was a kid, but had a wonderful relationship with each other and raised me, you know, an extremely loving, you know, household. And, yeah, it was just a great great upbringing. I'm an only child, and so, you know, they both got to raise me the way that they wanted to and and, very, you know, familial way. And so I would go to my dad's house, usually on the weekends, but it was very random whenever, like, he wanted to or my mom wanted to. So I would go over to his house, and he had just I mean, he was an entrepreneur by trade. He was a long time sales guy. Ended up getting into real estate. Some issues obviously in 2008, bought some gyms, did did really well at the gyms, had some other landscaping stuff, had a concrete business.

Andrew Rising [00:18:42]:
Like, the old rising business is is a concrete family, like, way back multi generation ago, but I ended up selling out of that. And so, you know, we have all these different interesting nuance. So I knew he was always this, like, weird guy that always had a bunch of different projects going on. He's like, hey. I'm reading this book called Rich Dad Poor Dad. I think you should read it. Mhmm. And I was like, okay.

Andrew Rising [00:19:02]:
Like, what why not? It it seems somewhat interesting and cool title. Whatever Kiyosaki has gone on to these days, I don't really pay attention to. But at least at that book, you know, I was 9 years old reading it, and there was just this, like, unlock that happened. It was just this Yeah. Unbelievable, like, holy Schneikies. This is the key to the universe. You're saying if all I have to do is figure out enough ways for my assets to cover my liabilities, I can live a financially free life in perpetuity. Like, that seems pretty legit.

Andrew Rising [00:19:33]:
That means I can do whatever I want, whenever I want. I don't really have to think about, oh, you have this big test coming up and you need to study for finance class and you need to study no. It's just assets and liabilities. Are you making money or are you losing money? And this is a very, like, very, very interesting dynamic of, like, that single book kind of shaped a lot of my life in that. You know, my dad would grill me with handwritten tests on those, like, yellow legal pad notes Every Saturday when I would go to his house, and we would be eating cookies and coffee and taking tests on all the different chapters of of Rich Dad Poor Dad. So tons of fun. And and and I think at that moment, it was like, okay. I I know I have to build something.

Andrew Rising [00:20:11]:
Either you're the leader of the pack or the scenery never changes. There's no point in, like, slogging through a company man career, which, again, there's there's nothing wrong with that. It's just what I'm not uniquely qualified and what I'm not really that good at. I can do it to a certain level because I know I'm capable to, but it's not my true passion or what I actually genuinely want to do with my life. So very, very long winded answer there, but I think that that ties into, like, the very, very spawning of of the entrepreneurial mindset.

Jeffrey Stern [00:20:38]:
Wow. Awesome. So you layer those two things together, and you you make your way back here to Cleveland. And I remember, again, when we first connected, the beginning of the exploration of this idea maze of trying to hone in and figure out what it is exactly that you're going to be working on and what Encore Venture Labs would would eventually become here. I would love to understand, especially given kind of the the myriad of things you've you had worked on prior in your career, how you approach this this problem of, like, true greenfield trying to understand what you did actually wanna devote your time and energy to to building?

Andrew Rising [00:21:22]:
Yeah. That I think that the idea of maze is a good good way to frame it. I mean, I think there's there's just for lack of better term, you you need to just have hundreds of conversations with people from all different walks of life to really understand, like, is there something there? Like, the the cliche, is there a there a there? You know, I I think knowing I wanted to go build something again, I didn't know exactly what I wanted to build. Right? And and I was still working at HC at this point, so I I've had the freedom to just have conversations and be a little bit more flexible while still, you know, maintaining a decent income. But at any rate, you know, you you you put a couple questions on on yourself and then extrapolate that out to, like, the region and and the city and and and what we're uniquely qualified to do and why right now. And I think that's a question that often comes from any venture capitalist that's ever had a single meeting with a founder. Those are the first two questions typically that you ask or or, you know, why are you uniquely qualified to build this business and why right now. Right? That gets you a relatively clear level of understanding of, does this person understand the problems that in which they're attempting to solve? And 2, is the timing right? Because timing matters so so so so so much.

Andrew Rising [00:22:31]:
And and so I think you you you know, after I had a bunch of different conversations, it was, okay. Like, do I start a company or do I raise a fund? Or is there some hybrid of both? I know there's a lot of different things that have been tried. And so at the end of the day, like, one, I didn't think that I could raise a a fund to the level which it would make sense economically because, really, unless you raise venture fund around 20 to 30 to maybe 50,000,000, the economics are super, super, super tough in that, you know, the the average check size that you're gonna write versus the outcomes data to generate value that, you know, you you're not even gonna create a a 2 to 3 x on on that fund. So it it made me realize, okay. Like, I probably don't think I'm gonna do anything relative to a fund. And then on the company side, I'm like, yeah. My I I really like the talent world. I think, obviously, with AI right now, I think there's a ton of stuff you can do.

Andrew Rising [00:23:20]:
It's super frothy. It doesn't really make a ton of sense, but I I do feel as though I'm probably a better operator than I am an investor. I'm no better dart thrower than the next guy. And then you also have to look at, like, the the talent ecosystem and the level of of of, you know, talent density that you have in a a specific area such that you could either invest in deals or partner with folks. And so I said, okay. Like, let's let's, you know, take a step back and and cliche again, think from first principles. I said, okay. Like, if you had to build this thing from scratch, what would you build? Well, let's take a look at the city, the region, you know, what are we uniquely qualified to build in, and then why right now?

Jeffrey Stern [00:23:53]:
And I think you look at

Andrew Rising [00:23:54]:
a lot of the macro trends that we're seeing with anything relative to geopolitics or or socioeconomics or climate, And I think there's a lot of of interesting tailwinds taking place there that drive a lot of interest into the Great Lakes region and then Cleveland more broadly or I'm sorry. More specifically, just by virtue of our of our proximity to freshwater and the Great Lakes. And so that was one unique thing that I kinda came across. I think there's also just the the notion of, like, geographic benefit that you have, you know. From a supply chain perspective, we're accessible to the entire I guess, I think we have 70% of the US within one day air travel from, like, a a shipping perspective. I think you look at just the general populace. We've got 9th in 9th in population. We are, I think, 3rd in, like, able working population.

Andrew Rising [00:24:42]:
I think we're 7th in GDP. We've got north of 10,000 plus manufacturing facilities in the state of Ohio alone. Right? And these are all a lot of things that I I don't I I think you know Jacob Diretski or Red Team Neo, but, like, that that guy is just like a fire hose of data and information. I try and just collect as much as I possibly can. And so, like, meeting with folks like him to understand, like, what are our actual opportunities, and and really distilling that down to a specific vision. So okay. Knowing that we have these trends, knowing that we have this capability, what can actually be built? And then I got really down into the venture studio model with a guy named Graham Morgan who runs a thing called One Dream Ventures. It was up in Detroit in NewLab up there, which is a phenomenal, you know, area we've actually been to together.

Andrew Rising [00:25:24]:
But he kinda said, hey. Listen. If if your goal is to kind of create a resurgence in a risk on asset class, like, let's go whiteboard what that could actually look like. And we ended up spending quite a few hours together and and really kind of coming to the conclusion that, you know what, the venture studio model is probably the right model for a relatively nascent from a venture as an asset class perspective in in the city of Cleveland. But then also, you know, it allows you to raise less funds, maintain higher ownership structures, and actually build from the ground up. Right? I don't know if I can go out to the market right now and say, yes. There's probably 10 founders that I would just love to invest in. I don't know if there's a bunch of, you know, Jeff Sterns running around or or or, you know, Leo's running around, and I I if I if they are, please, you know, I would love to meet you.

Andrew Rising [00:26:11]:
But I I don't know if that's there. So I I think it really allowed me to to condense my thought and say, okay. Like, what am I personally now uniquely qualified to build and why right now? And then it kind of, like, let my let my journey of, like, all these these, you know, culminations of things, both specifically with, like, what I want to do in my future for the next 20 to 30 years, along with what the city and and then the region more broadly is capable to do over the next 20 to 30 years, Then along with, like, the geographic benefits that we just generally have here and and what technological advancements can really be layered on to the infrastructure that's already been created. So I think all those things culminated in this approach of saying, okay. Like, I have to go do this. Let's go build. And so that was, effectively, like, how how things kind of came to to fruition. But, yeah, hundreds of of conversations.

Andrew Rising [00:26:56]:
I like to call it the random walk or the idea of a's, but it was a a a lot of lot of fun.

Jeffrey Stern [00:27:01]:
Well, on the the other side of of that walk, you know, understanding it's maybe bookend by strictly a a founder, entrepreneur, and an investor on the other side, what exactly is a a venture studio?

Andrew Rising [00:27:16]:
Yeah. So a venture studio is basically a startup factory or or a company factory. You know, what what it does is it builds and launches startups that provides funding, guidance, shared services. The goal is effectively to say, hey. You know, we're gonna ruthlessly test this thing such that we have a relatively higher significance of or or probability of success than otherwise, you know, without any, approach or or or or just general venture funding model. Right? Because you're a venture fund and you say, hey. Like, I trust your team. You guys go figure it out.

Andrew Rising [00:27:49]:
Maybe we'll help you out with some different areas, and maybe it might even be, like, recruiting or something. But with the venture studio, you have a lot more control. So I think there's a couple key components to it. I mean, anything that I like to I guess, like, the the stages, you know, idea generation, anything relative to, like, the validation process, meaning that rigorous testing and validating ideas through whether it be market research or or customer feedback. I think that's the biggest thing is just go talk to your customers. I think that's actually, like, sneaky. My favorite meme is, like, you know, the one with the bell curve, and you have the Jedi on the one end and the dummy on the other, and then just, like, they're like, angry guy in the middle. That's why I was just like, even though, like, Venture Studio can, like, say some of the rigorous testing on them, like, no.

Andrew Rising [00:28:30]:
No. It's actually just, like, go talk to your customers. Do you have product market fit? Do you have customer market fit? That'll pretty much win the day. But anyway, like, that is the validation process that you're effectively looking for. Another piece, what I I would say is, like, resource allocation. So ensuring that you can actually provide them with the financial support and the operational infrastructure to be successful. Because if I have a entrepreneur in residence that, you know, really just wants to go build, let me handle all the BS as a quote, unquote cofounder that you don't wanna handle, like setting up Jira or setting up Slack or setting up your email or trying to figure out taxes, like, actually figuring out your financial model and all this stuff. And then we'll also be, you know, supportive on go to market and and different things like that.

Andrew Rising [00:29:09]:
But team and expertise, I think, would be another thing. You know, really surrounding those individuals with a skilled team and a huge network. Building and scaling, I think that's where, you know, providing support and and prototyping or MVP production. Ownership and investment is this kind of, like, a main piece of it where, you know, the reason you would work with a studio is to say, hey. Like, I need a cofounder. I've got this idea. I think it's something really interesting, but I need some help really validating it such that, you know, we can actually launch this thing into market. With that comes naturally, you know, a a stake.

Andrew Rising [00:29:43]:
We'll obviously put capital in, but we're also going to expect that we're gonna have a relatively higher percentage ownership versus any other, you know, venture firm that we might might run into down the road. And then, again, it's just this this hardcore focus on managing multiple start ups, leveraging economies of scale, you know, increasing success rates, and ideally, you know, driving meaningful outcomes. So it was kind of a a winding area, but, again, just to distill that down, idea generation, validation process, resource allocation, resource allocation, team and expertise, building and scaling, and then ownership and investment. Lay of the Land is brought to you by Impact Architects and by 90. As we share

Jeffrey Stern [00:30:21]:
the stories of entrepreneurs building incredible organizations in Cleveland and throughout Northeast Ohio, Impact Architects has helped 100 of those leaders, many of whom we have heard from as guests on this very podcast, realize their own visions and build these great organizations. I believe in Impact Architects and the people behind it so much that I have actually joined them personally in their mission to help leaders gain focus, align together, and thrive by doing what they love. If you 2 are trying to build great, Impact Architects is offering to sit down with you for a free consultation or provide a free trial through 90, the software platform that helps teams build great companies. If you are interested in learning more about partnering with Impact Architects or by leveraging 90 to power your own business, please go to ia.layoftheland.fm. The link will also be in our show notes. So back to this this founding question with with that context in place, you know, when you when you pose, what are we as a region uniquely qualified to build and why now? The answer you come to is Encore Venture Labs. So help paint a picture for us of what this organization is, what does it look like, what are you trying to accomplish here, and, really, what your your long term visions and goals are as you build it.

Andrew Rising [00:31:48]:
Yeah. That's a that's a good question. So I think, like, you know, right now, the what we've seen, and I think there's this really cool thing that that we're starting to see this American dynamism zeitgeist take place, which is it's it's encouraging. Right? And I think we're extremely well positioned to to to fulfill that and then to have almost this industrial renaissance where, you know, we like to say our tagline is bridging the gap between the region's industrial heritage and its industrial future. And I think that starts with us. Right? It starts with the companies in which we build. And so, you know, we're we're gonna focus on a couple key sectors, again, that that we are uniquely qualified to build in. I think that's anything relative to advanced manufacturing, anything relative to the water economy, and then anything relative to clean power and energy.

Andrew Rising [00:32:32]:
I think there's an underpinning current also of workforce development preparing our individuals to take advantage of, you know, these emerging technologies like semiconductors and the electrification of everything. And so that will be a a constant current that I just have a personal focus on because that's been my entire, you know, background for lack of better term. But at the end of the day, you know, our job is to really build consistent winners. Right? I think, you know, building companies that have alumni that can then go out and build the next generation of companies really creates a a a a a wonderful ecosystem of of success, for lack of better term. And I think we as Clevelanders, which, again, you you are adopted son of Cleveland for sure. I'm not very noticed that in spirit. Obviously. I think you've noticed this that there's, like, this say it's, like, self deprecating, but almost to the level of, like, self hatred of this weird belief that, like, we don't deserve greatness when, like, so many world class things and people and technologies have actually come from this area.

Andrew Rising [00:33:36]:
And it just it frustrates me to no end because, yeah, sometimes our sports teams are bad and it's gray a little bit. Like, that doesn't mean our whole world sucks. Like, we actually have a ton of really, really interesting talent and capabilities and people. It's our job, I think, at Encore to say, hey. You know, our turn or our time for our second act, hence the name Encore Ventures, Venture Labs. So, like, I think that's where where we wanna get back to. I think, you know, there's this this terminology, like, a a Kurezu, which is effectively like an inter interdependent group of companies with its own, like, banking partner, manufacturer, distributor, and supply chain partners. Like, my vision is kind of to build that, but in, again, the sectors, whether it be energy or advanced manufacturing or water economy, like, build that in this Cleveland world such that you're this epicenter of a specific, you know, industrial renaissance.

Andrew Rising [00:34:27]:
Right? And I think that's where we get a really, really I mean, that's where the narrative has has really kind of struck a chord with a lot of the investors, because a lot of the the folks that that, you know, we talk to, whether they be family offices or institutions, are relatively, you know, not not really exposed to venture as an asset class or but never really heard of a venture studio, and that's why I've kind of been making a lot of these silly videos that, I have been flooding the LinkedIn airwaves, and apologies for having to see my face and listen to my voice all all the time. But I I think that's, you know, where we wanna get really to with the sectors in which we can actually dominate it. And so a lot of these folks are saying, you know what? It is that time. We need a group of of what I, you know, lack of better term, killers or or really, really capable entrepreneurs that understand growth, understand how to go 0 to 1, and understand how to scale. They know how to operate these things at a a really, really, really efficient level, and I think we need to see a lot more of that. And that's where, you know, Encore needs to be a group of individuals that are launching companies that are absolute killers. Right? I I think that's the only way that this thing works out, and I I I'm I'm very excited to get after it. So that's where we're at.

Jeffrey Stern [00:35:39]:
So where where is Encore Venture Labs today? And how do you, you know, with that refine this thesis of, you know, clean energy, freshwater industry manufacturing, and, like, hone in on what are what are some of the ideas that you're actually excited about pursuing, validating, going through that whole process that that you outlined earlier?

Andrew Rising [00:36:01]:
Yeah. It's a good question. And so just to highlight where we're at, you know, we we we really so the overall fund is a $3,000,000 fund. This is this is phase 1. So the phase 1 is a $3,000,000 fund. We're we just actually initiated our first close last week, so actively, chatting quite a bit with Calphi, our our law firm here in Cleveland. They've done a nice job, and so we're we're actively getting some money wired to us now, which is really exciting. So we're we're gonna do our official launch on 15th.

Andrew Rising [00:36:31]:
So, yeah, $3,000,000 fund, first close at a million. We'll still have 2,000,000, out after that. So looking to close that within the next 6 months, it'll be exciting. But the initial million allows us to really get our first two companies off the ground. And so with that 3,000,000, you launch 6 companies. Let's assume you're gonna earmark 500 k for each company. Let's assume let's 250 for validation processes and then 250 to seed the company. With that, we expect to maintain anywhere from 35 to 50% ownership of the business depending on if we have an EIR lead it or if we actually lead the business at the offset.

Andrew Rising [00:37:03]:
And, yeah, we're we're we're super, super excited about a lot of the companies that we're already starting to validate. So, yeah, some of the companies that we're we're actively working on validating right now, like, one is is in the 3 d digital asset management space. I think there's a potential long tail opportunity there for anything relative to additive manufacturing or 3 d printing. I think there's some other things in, like, the water economy that are super interesting relative to whether it be industrial sensor technology or even to the level which, like, a nontoxic bio side might make sense for for industrial cooling towers. Right? So, traditionally, like, those have to be moved, and there's a lot of EPA risk and costs and different things associated with instead. If we can develop, you know, the the the chemistry such that, you know, this biocide and and could be poured down the drain, that would be, a wonderful, wonderful outcome. Right? So you're you're preserving habitats, you're saving money, and you're you're you're doing well for the the environment while also, ideally, making sure that all of our stuff is still cool. So, yeah, those are a couple things that that we're actively working on right now.

Andrew Rising [00:38:05]:
I think there's there's quite a few more. We've got really, like, 6 active builds that we're we're validating, and those are in each different stages of the the the process.

Jeffrey Stern [00:38:15]:
So you mentioned the the EIR, the entrepreneur in residence. And part of what I imagine is the core competency that you need to have, and and, ultimately, one of the the hardest challenges of your job as a venture studio is to find the the right leader to run and operate the venture after you've achieved a level of derisking and invalidation. Yep. And I kinda I kinda love the Google framing of that, you know, task you had at the time, which is, you know, go find the best qualified person in the world for this job. And knowing that is your background and experience, how you've kind of integrated the current opportunity for for Encore and how you're thinking about, you know, finding the best person to do and run with these opportunities as you built them and the role that that Cleveland plays in that as well.

Andrew Rising [00:39:10]:
Yeah. I think there's there's the it it goes back to my entire career is is effectively, like, one thing of talent drives outcomes. Right? And I I I think that's absolutely true. And I think that's where I wanna get explicitly, explicitly clear on, you know, the intention of Encore is is to work with world class individuals that build world class institutions. Right? That's the only way I think you can actually become some sort of hub of anything. And I think we often rely too much on this notion of, like, we can be the next Silicon Valley or the next Columbus even, which makes me wanna puke. But I I think there's yeah. Like, we want to be the number one Cleveland.

Andrew Rising [00:39:56]:
We were, once this globally prominent industrial hub, and and it's our opportunity to do it again. The only way that we can do that is if we have world class builders building interesting business that are actually relevant. Right? And so with that, I mean, we we've we've gone many, many strides and lengths to to really curate a group of individuals that we do believe can build $1,000,000,000 businesses. Right? And and and that's, I I guess, like, the the the core analog that if you think about it from a venture scale perspective. But this is just someone that I know when the chips get down, they're gonna figure it out. Right? And obviously, we're gonna support them throughout the the entire journey, but this goes into entirely, like, my recruiting and talent acquisition or Exactsearch background of you need to build your shortlist. You need to talk with those people. You need to talk with the people that know those people and understand who these folks are really about.

Andrew Rising [00:40:48]:
You need to spend time with them. You need to go on walks. You need to have dinners with them. You need to understand them to a core, what really drives them and incentivizes them, such that you're pretty aligned when you know, inevitably, there's gonna be disagreements. Right? But you have to know that there's going to be a very clear overarching objective of, I would rather die than have this company fail. Right? And I think that's where when we talk about raising the bar and you you look at guys like Dallas, you look at guys like like Aaron Slodom, I I think, like, some of those are are are are the individuals that I point to, and I I really find Solace in where we can sit down for dinner and talk for hours strictly on what's going on in their business and just have an absolute blast doing it and trying to solve each other's problems. But knowing that, of course, like, that is the number one thing that they are focused on without a doubt. And I I just love those sessions.

Andrew Rising [00:41:41]:
And so, like, how can you find a similar group of individuals that this is their entire existence? And I think that's where we wanna get to. So it's that, like, obsession, obsessive nature of of of a world class founder that you look for.

Jeffrey Stern [00:41:55]:
And I think you've hinted at, you know, what the answer to this question might be in your laying out of even the the founding question of what are we uniquely qualified to do and why now, and it's kind of grounding in in Cleveland and the structural trends involved. But, explicitly, how do you gauge success in this? And and Yeah. And, like, ultimately, the impact that you hope to have with the perspective of retrospect.

Andrew Rising [00:42:26]:
Yeah. I think I think we're we're sitting here in, you know, 20 years and, you know, we're we're talking about, man, that that really worked out, didn't that? It's it's it's a couple a couple key things. Right? I think, you know, naturally, I think you you, whether fortunately or unfortunately, you have to look at the numbers. What was your win rate? How many companies have had a liquidity event? I think that's one. Just arbitrary metric, how much did you return to your investors? What was your MOIC? What was your IRR? All that good stuff. But I I think there's another one that I I like to call, like, the slugging percentage. And so for for the baseball fans, they'll they'll understand what that means. But, effectively, the slugging percentage is a statistic that measures a batter's productivity by calculating the average number of bases they reach per at bat.

Andrew Rising [00:43:08]:
And so I think when I apply that to our world, it's basically saying, okay. How many of the companies that we started actually are still generating significant returns by virtue of maybe not being a venture backable company? So if it happens to be this nontoxic bio side that that we end up creating, like, is that a company that can exist in perpetuity that can generate year over year growth that can maintain 40% margin or gross margins? Because it maintain 15, 20% EBIT margins. Like, let's understand what that actually looks like and quantify that. Because to me, those businesses are probably gonna put quite a few people to work. They're gonna put quite a few, you know, plates of food on the table for individuals. And ideally, you're creating a long term sustainable business. Because when I came back, there was effectively, you know, 3 goals that I wanted to achieve. It was, you know, 1, I wanna create economic development for the city and region in which I was born.

Andrew Rising [00:43:57]:
2, was I I wanna build sustainable businesses. And 3, I wanted the ability to take asymmetric upside bets. And that's what what what a lot of this is. And so I think, like, those would be the 2 things that I think from a a company success perspective or, like, a fund success perspective. I think the the the last one there is, you know, we talk about it in in Silicon Valley quite a bit where you have, you know, the the PayPal mafia or the Stripe mafia or all these different things. I'd love to see some semblance of that, meaning how many people that came through Encore, whether it be as a founder or as a individual on our team, or even as an individual on any of the teams that we spawn, you you know, have gone on to start companies. And and and I think that's an interesting metric, and I and I think that's something that I really wanna lean into a little bit more because if you can build this culture of excellence and raise the bar, those individuals that are part of that team will want to go start something on their own. And those individuals that are are on the team that they're leaving should be supporting them to go do such things and ideally, even with capital.

Andrew Rising [00:44:57]:
And I think that's how you really build, again, more cliche startup terms, but the flywheel. It's such that, like, you know, right now again, we're we're we're at this, like, first crank of the flywheel, which is obviously the the the most difficult by far, but it's also, you know, where where I I find some solace and I I find comfort in chaos. And so I just I I love getting into to the early stages of things. And so, again, this is phase 1. I think phase 2 of Encore looks a little bit different in that it's gonna be a much larger fund with still a studio component. So let's say it's a 10, 20, $30,000,000 fund. And then I think in 5, 6 years, phase 3 is when that true, you know, dual entity venture capital fund studio, 50, 70, $100,000,000 fund starts to take place. And so, again, we're starting with this $3,000,000 fund.

Andrew Rising [00:45:40]:
We wanna take a pragmatic approach, but I I think there's a lot that that will be evolving over the the next couple of months. And, yeah, we'll we'll we'll see where we nut out, but couldn't be more excited.

Jeffrey Stern [00:45:50]:
And it is very exciting. Having been through the entrepreneurial journey already on your own projects, I mean, really from inception through to acquisition and then simultaneously working with many other companies through their own journeys. What are you doing differently this time around? You know, what are the what are some of your own lessons learned as as an entrepreneur that you carry with you into a new undertaking?

Andrew Rising [00:46:16]:
Yeah. It's a it's a good question. I think it's I think there's there's actually there's a couple of things that might be, like, hot takey, I I guess. I don't wanna, like, make hot takes or anything like that, but, you know, I I think Let's

Jeffrey Stern [00:46:30]:
hear them. Let's hear them.

Andrew Rising [00:46:31]:
Well, I mean, it's it's it's kind of cliche, but I I I think that this is where the best builders that I had the opportunity to work with and even, you know, in my my own company when we would launch it, we were just so freaking heads down that we didn't have time to go do anything else relative to, like, going to happy hours or going to, you know, different events and, you know, being seen in all these things. I can't really say because I'm I'm guilty of that too now as I'm trying to raise awareness of of Encore, and I'm, you know, still nude back into the region. But I think there's there's too much focus on performative BS, and I I I'd like to just really incentivize the true builders to continue building, keep your heads down and build. Like, I was working with the Brex team when they were 8 people, I think. And this is, you know, before they were even publicly announced or, you know, like, they they there was literally nothing about them, but we we we needed to hire a whole bunch of people. And Enrique and Pedro, I don't think those guys did anything but eat, sleep, and just work at Brex. And, again, that's not for everybody. It's a different world.

Andrew Rising [00:47:39]:
That's Silicon Valley and whatnot. But, like, it wasn't so much that it was, like, the location they were based. These are 2 Brazilian kids that, you know, that happened to be in San Francisco. It was just a ruthless focus on the things that matter.

Jeffrey Stern [00:47:51]:
And I think that would be the one thing that I

Andrew Rising [00:47:52]:
would say that I'm taking with me on this journey is just strictly focusing on the things that matter. And for lack of better term, it's talking to your users or talking to your customers, actually solving a specific problem that they have. Don't just build to build. You need to be solving a problem, and I think that oftentimes people get too focused on, oh, well, we can, like, really apply this technology to something interesting. Like, well, have you validated that? Have you got have you talked to any customers or potential users that say you would use that? Did you get the LOI sign? Anything like that. And even, like, a step deeper, I think that's even more important in this manufacturing sector where you're trying to layer on technology to this forward business or a business unit or line or whatever. The founders in that sector that are just saying, hey. We can, you know, really layer on some software to this, you know, really interesting industrial process.

Andrew Rising [00:48:45]:
Like, maybe, but have you actually, like, validated that, or have you talked to that individual? And, like, you need to get super, super clear. And that's one thing that I think we're focused on is, like, you know what? Lean into the design partners. I think, is one thing. It's just, hey. Is this a problem in which you need solved? How are you going about solving it right now? What's helped you? Would you be interested in using something like this? And then just really, really iterating quickly with them. So that was a long winded answer for number 1. And then number 2 is another probably hot take is, yeah, I I actually used to, like, fundamentally hate the notion of, like, an operating system for business. And I was just like, oh, you losers, like, you can't do it yourself.

Andrew Rising [00:49:25]:
Like, what are you doing? It's, You know, just have your KPIs and OKRs and go hit them. It's not that hard. And, you know, the older I get and the more, you know, the more I talk to individuals and people in that world, and especially after meeting, like, Chris Snyder and and Jim Haviland and the the the folks over at Impact Architects. Like, I've done a complete 180 on it. I think it's absolutely critical to have a a business operating system within, like, when you go 0 to 1. If nothing else, for just sheer accountability. Right? I think Jim likes to talk about rituals, languages, and artifacts being the same. We're instituting that at Encore to say, you know, even at the fun level, we're gonna have rituals, artifacts, languages all be the same.

Andrew Rising [00:50:08]:
We're gonna run on 90, and then every single one of our companies that we have is also going to be in that exact same cohort of, like, running on 90. We're gonna all speak the same language such that we can have a really, really articulate and educated and non non emotional conversation around, like, where is the business now? Where do we wanna go, and what do we need to do to get there? And then having specific metrics and milestones along the way. I think, you know, I I've had a career of being a a cowboy and, you know, shooting from the hip and a lot, but, you know, honestly, that's a stupid way to go about it. And so I I think, you know, now the the main thing that we're really updating is having this operating system, having clarity, prioritize, and communicate. That's all you need to do.

Jeffrey Stern [00:50:46]:
Wow. Yeah. Both both awesome takes. Perhaps hot in in some circles, but that that's what makes for a fun earned opinion as you have them. Well, congratulations on on the first close. I think it Thank you. It's very exciting and kind of opens the door to, you know, really all of these incredible things that that you've outlined here today and and the work still to be done. And so I'm excited to, you know, follow along on the journey as it transpires and and have you back to, you know, give us an update.

Andrew Rising [00:51:18]:
As you

Jeffrey Stern [00:51:19]:
make your way through these ideas. But I I did wanna ask, you know, as you have made your way through this idea maze and and perhaps, you know, you've you've reached, if not the the end of the maze, but at least, you know, enough vision and and foresight to chart a path for, you know, the exploration that Encore is now about to to go down. If there are parts that you feel are important to this journey, your journey that, we haven't talked about that that you would wanna call out?

Andrew Rising [00:51:50]:
I I think I just wanna reinforce this notion of, like, Cleveland and the Great Lakes region, like, we are extremely capable, and we are extremely able to really shepherd in a new era of companies, of innovation, of production. This is going to be an epicenter of productivity, I think, over the next few decades, and I think it's on us. I think to your point and and your your note around joining the Ohio Fund, it killed that water. Right? It was it was it it's on us if we basically fumble all of this opportunity. Right? And I obviously much more eloquently said in your your comment and what he actually said. But we have this really interesting time, this inflection point in history. I think we've got young, hungry, capable leadership across the board. You've got, you know, obviously, mayor Biv, who's done a a a really nice job.

Andrew Rising [00:52:43]:
You've got Craig Hassold coming in with a new perspective, and I think he he recognizes a lot of what what I've recognized since I've been moving back where it's like, no. No. Like, Cleveland's effing awesome. Like, why why is there such a negative connotation to all this stuff? And I I think we just we need to shed this self hatred and, like, this this belief that we don't deserve and all this negativity. So many great things have come out of this region and this city specifically, and I I think we're we're we're ready for our next act. You know, I I think it's it's absolutely critical to just change that mindset such that, you know, you should look forward to doing the stuff that you do on a daily basis because it is contributing to the overall return of a once great city, and I I think we're very much on the path there. Let's just throw some gasoline on it, preferably not in our river, but but at any rate, no. I I think that's where we we really wanna focus on just shutting this this notion that we don't deserve it, where we can't have it, or this mistake by the lake mentality.

Andrew Rising [00:53:43]:
It's it's complete bullshit, and I think we we we wanna completely change that narrative.

Jeffrey Stern [00:53:49]:
Well well said. Onward and and upward. Here we go. So with that, I'll ask you our traditional closing question, which, you know, you you you know what it is, but I'm curious what you'll what your answer will be for a hidden gem in Cleveland. Something that other folks may not know about, but but they should.

Andrew Rising [00:54:08]:
Yeah. It's, the the this one, I mean, I it kinda goes back to, like, the family and, you know, the the place I've been to just tons and tons of times really with my dad, like, ever since I was born.

Jeffrey Stern [00:54:20]:
Yeah.

Andrew Rising [00:54:20]:
He had been going, I think, for, like, 50 some odd years, but it's this this little, you know, park. It's called Furnace Run, in the Metro Parks. It's in Richfield, out of Brecksville Road. I mean, I've probably gone there every single year since I've been able to walk. And my dad and I will just go over there and and walk for, you know, an hour, hour and a half, just talk about life, talk about different things, talk about business, talk about, you know, relationships and what's been going on. Just it always brings me to a, like, sense of clarity, and and it it's always just something that I I look fondly to do and then get to get to hang out with him. And I I think that what is it? It's called tree bathing or something where just a simple walk through the forest is unbelievably beneficial to your brain and, like, the cognitive functions. So I

Jeffrey Stern [00:55:09]:
I think that would be

Andrew Rising [00:55:09]:
my main spot. And then, you know, I I think the other piece, like, I it's not a hidden gem because you're you're obviously very, very vocal, but I think you, as an institution, Jeff, have been just so so unbelievable to so many different people in in this city. I mean, ever since I've been back, I I I I truly mean this when I say, like, I don't know if Encore exists without meeting you initially, and then you opening up your entire world and network and just the amount of willingness to to support me and the the the city more broadly. It's it's it's just a wonderful, wonderful thing, and we need more of you. And, again, anybody that has a chance to to meet Jeff, I couldn't recommend it more and come to the events that he posts and all that good stuff. So I I I do wanna give you a huge, huge shout out and thank you. And, you know, again, half of the people I think on on your podcast, I've had the opportunity to meet by virtue of you. So it's been wonderful, and, yeah, I I'm I'm really excited about getting to hopefully partner up in some capacity with you and and and just, continuing on this journey together as we we bring back this this once proud city into a, global globally prominent hub once again.

Jeffrey Stern [00:56:15]:
Well, thank you for sharing that. It certainly means a lot. It's the joy for me of of getting to do this is is getting to bring people together and in the spirit of of everything you just laid out. So it's, I I'm very excited to to continue the the journey. Yeah. And see and and work with you to to make it happen.

Andrew Rising [00:56:37]:
Let's do it. Onward.

Jeffrey Stern [00:56:39]:
If people had anything they wanted to follow-up with you about, what would be the the best way for them to do so?

Andrew Rising [00:56:45]:
Yeah. Shoot me an email at andrew@encoreventurelabs.com, or you can find me on LinkedIn. I I am you know, even though I I mentioned this stuff about the performative nature of, like, all the the happy hours and all the silliness of trying to just be seen at different events. Like, I am gonna lean in a little bit to this, like, cringey marketing in some sense because we just need to establish our brand. And ideally, we'll make it somewhat cool along the way. So I will be quite a bit on LinkedIn. You'll probably have to see my face and hear my voice a little bit more, but, hopefully, it'll be be coming from a good good place and, elevating the the region in some way, shape, or form. So, yeah, those are probably the 2 best ways to find me.

Andrew Rising [00:57:25]:
I I need to get better at Twitter. I don't know anything about Instagram, although I know we have them. So feel free to follow us there and and, connect with us because trying to, I guess, a rising tide lifts all boats, and it just happens to be my last name.

Jeffrey Stern [00:57:40]:
There it is. Well, for what it's worth, I actually I I enjoyed the marketing. It they're they're pretty fun.

Andrew Rising [00:57:46]:
It is good. And I actually like shout out to those folks, like, Tommy over at at Cheddar Studios. It's been fantastic, and it it's just really, really cool and fun.

Jeffrey Stern [00:57:54]:
Well, Andrew, I just want to, thank you for for your time, for sharing your story, for all the work that you're doing here in Cleveland. And, yeah, can't wait to to see see what comes of it.

Andrew Rising [00:58:06]:
Awesome. Well, thank you, Jeff. Really appreciate it. Yeah. We'll talk soon.

Jeffrey Stern [00:58:10]:
Cool. That's all for this week. Thank you for listening. We'd love to hear your thoughts on today's show, so if you have any feedback, please send over an email to jeffrey at layoftheland.fm, or find us on Twitter at podlayoftheland or @sternjefe, j e f e. If you or someone you know would make a good guest for our show, please reach out as well and let us know. And if you enjoy the podcast, please subscribe and leave a review on iTunes or on your preferred podcast player. Your support goes a long way to help us spread the word and continue to bring the Cleveland founders and builders we love having on the show. We'll be back here next week at the same time to map more of the land.