#197: Ali Bonar (Oat Haus) — The Granola Butter Company

Ali Bonar [00:00:00]:
I kind of feel that way with entrepreneurship where I'm like, this wasn't my choice. I wish I could be just content and happy at my 9 to 5 because this isn't an easy path. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's not an easy path to start your own business, but I just would not be content and happy had I not done this. And I'm so glad that I did because I'm never gonna look back at the end of my life and regret doing it. Right? But it's fucking hard, and it's just the most challenging thing I've ever done.

Jeffrey Stern [00:00:31]:
Let's discover what people are building in the Greater Cleveland community. We are telling the stories of Northeast Ohio's entrepreneurs, builders, and those supporting them. Welcome to the Lay of the Land podcast, where we are exploring what people are building in Cleveland and throughout Northeast Ohio. I am your host, Jeffrey Stern, and today I had the real pleasure of speaking with Ali Bonner. Ali is the CEO and co founder of Oat House, a food company bringing fun and play to eating. Their flagship product, granola butter, is the world's 1st oat based spread. And while Oat House was born out of Ali's decade long battle with an eating disorder, it is now her mission to help others feel less alone. Since its beginning in 2018, Oat House has evolved from Ally's personal project to a Cleveland based nationwide company with distribution in over 5,000 stores, like Target, Whole Foods, Publix, and more.

Jeffrey Stern [00:01:29]:
This conversation was a lot of fun. Ali shares the challenges and joys of entrepreneurship, the importance of authenticity and branding, reflecting on scale, having packed over 4,000,000 jars of granola butter by hand with her team, her experience pitching on Shark Tank, the power of community engagement through social media, and growing her base to over 100,000 followers, moving to Cleveland, overcoming adversity, and a whole lot more. Please enjoy this awesome conversation with Ali Bonner. Lay of the Land is brought to you by Impact Architects and by 90. As we share the stories of entrepreneurs building incredible organizations in Cleveland and throughout Northeast Ohio, Impact Architects has helped hundreds of those leaders, many of whom we have heard from as guests on this very podcast, realize their own visions and build these great organizations. I believe in Impact Architects and the people behind it so much that I have actually joined them personally in their mission to help leaders gain focus, align together, and thrive by doing what they love. If you 2 are trying to build great, Impact Architects is offering to sit down with you for a free consultation or provide a free trial through 90, the software platform that helps teams build great companies. If you are interested in learning more about partnering with Impact Architects or by leveraging 90 to power your own business, please go to ia.layoftheland.fm.

Jeffrey Stern [00:02:54]:
The link will also be in our show notes. Alright. So I'm I'm always thinking about where the best place to start these conversations is. And what came to mind is the following. And I was wondering if when you were younger and thinking through your professional aspirations, had you imagined that you would have started a granola butter company?

Ali Bonar [00:03:21]:
Definitely not. Yeah. Quite the opposite, actually. Well, I don't know. There's there's threads for sure if you look back.

Jeffrey Stern [00:03:29]:
Yeah.

Ali Bonar [00:03:30]:
But not I would say not recently. So, yeah, growing up, I loved journaling, photography, you know, especially food photography. Like, I wanted to be a food photographer when I was probably in 3rd grade, which is just I was a weird kid and kinda nerdy. And my parents were like, okay. Cool. Like, what is that? And so, you know, that makes sense now because, obviously, we have a big social media presence, and I love creating content, and we have a food company. But then as I got older and, you know, reality and logic started to creep in, I was premed at Cal in my undergrad and just had full plans on becoming a doctor and then, you know, interned or volunteered at the local hospital. And I was like, I hate blood.

Ali Bonar [00:04:16]:
I hate sick people. I hate the hospital setting. What am I doing? And I just always gravitated towards food. I was a nutrition major even though I was premed, and so I think there was always that thread there. But, yeah, I mean, Griddle of butter, obviously, we created the product idea, so I had no inkling that it was gonna end up landing there per se. Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:04:41]:
Yeah. I think the beauty of internships is much more often that they tell you what you should not do than what you should do.

Ali Bonar [00:04:50]:
Yeah. And it's funny too because, you know, the reason why I wanted to become a doctor was I had this fear of the unknown. Right? And so it's like this stable, you know, financially secure career. It's praised, you know, and since it's held up on a pedestal in society. So I was like, this is great. This is so predictable. And then I end up in a field, you know, being an entrepreneur, which is the least predictable and stable. So it's just funny how that works.

Ali Bonar [00:05:16]:
But

Jeffrey Stern [00:05:16]:
It is funny. So you you had mentioned some of the threads that may have, you know, in retrospect, hinted at at what you would be doing today. What would you say were some of the the other threads?

Ali Bonar [00:05:28]:
I think even just my love of journaling. Like, I always kept a journal from the time I could write pretty much. I was just at my parents' house last week. We were talking about this before we started recording. But my mom was showing me just, like, boxes and boxes of my journals. And it was silly stuff. Like, oh, Tanae at soccer practice, you know, blah blah blah. But I just always had this urge to share about my life.

Ali Bonar [00:05:54]:
And so I think that translates to what I'm doing now because I'm just so authentic and transparent on social media, and it's not because that's what people are looking for or that's what's trendy. Like, it truly is just it's a compulsion almost. Like, I'm the oversharer. You know, there's always that one friend that's constantly oversharing and, yeah, maybe it's, you know, a trauma response, probably my therapist would say or something. But, yeah, it's just something that, you know, I've never been someone who's private or or kept to myself. It's like if I'm going through something you know, I froze my eggs 2 years ago now, and I shared every little every single day, all the injections, how I was feeling, what my body was doing, like, on my Instagram, and I just I don't know. I felt like I wanted to share it because I wanted other people to not feel alone or other people who are considering going through it. So, yeah, that was it's just always been kind of innate, but from an early age, I think.

Jeffrey Stern [00:06:51]:
Yeah. Well, I I always kinda like thinking about entrepreneurship as the realization or, like, manifestation of of building the thing that is an expression of of who you are. And I you know, you've already kind of outlined here that your entrepreneurial journey is a is a pretty, you know, personal one.

Ali Bonar [00:07:10]:
Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:07:10]:
How would you describe, you know, the the business counterpart to to what it is that you've experienced in your your personal journey?

Ali Bonar [00:07:18]:
Yeah. Just I mean, how how we grew the business, or can you explain more, yeah, your question?

Jeffrey Stern [00:07:23]:
Yeah. Like, where where it came from. You know, Oat House is a representation of of your experiences and and who you are and how you've you've grown.

Ali Bonar [00:07:33]:
100%. Sorry. There's a siren. Okay. Yeah. So, I mean, it's a crazy product idea. Right? And I think a lot of people have that same question of, like, where did this come from? Like, why did you even think of this idea? I think going back to similar threads, I've always had just weird ideas in the kitchen. And I think when I started my so I first started my food Instagram account, and I was kinda just making these, like, crazy, drippy, weird smoothies.

Ali Bonar [00:08:02]:
And, you know, for me, it was almost like an art form. Again, like, going back to the food photography and the food styling. And so, yeah, it was just something that always called to me. And but I think the idea for our product really came out of my eating disorder recovery. So I'm super, you know, open about it online and offline. It's a huge reason why we do what we do. But when I was in recovery, I, you know, started recovery probably 2016, 2017. And I really was I had a hard time digesting nuts during that time, and I was reintroducing a lot of my fear foods that I had restricted for a long time, you know, peanut butter, almond butter.

Ali Bonar [00:08:38]:
And as I started to reintroduce them, I just, yeah, I just had a hard time digesting those products. And so I didn't have a nut allergy myself, but I needed just something kinda to substitute in. And I thought it was just gonna be for a temporary time being. So I tried sunflower seed butter, soy nut butter, all these, you know, nut free spreads that were on the market. I was like, these taste terrible. Like, why are these the only options out there for people that have allergies or whatnot? And so, personally and kind of selfishly, you know, I just wanted to create something that tasted better and was nut free. So it was right around the time when oat milk, you know, was coming on the scene, 2016, 2017. And I just had this epiphany that if you could create a milk out of oats, you could probably create a spread out of oats, and that's where the initial idea came from.

Ali Bonar [00:09:23]:
And so, you know, started playing around in my tiny San Francisco kitchen using Vitamix and, like, throwing Trader Joe's granola in there. And it was just terrible. The result was not sellable by any means, but I was so determined to make this a reality and, you know, make this happen. And so I enlisted our 3rd cofounder, Ari, who worked at Michelin Star Restaurants as a chef, and he was living in Paris at the time. And I, you know, first as a chef, and he was living in Paris at the time. And I, you know, first thought maybe I would just kinda contract with him and have him come on as a consultant. And he was so burned out in the fine dining space and, you know, was overworked and underpaid. And so he actually came on as our 3rd cofounder and created the recipe we use today, which is really incredible.

Ali Bonar [00:10:06]:
So it's really been a joint effort. And then my 3rd cofounder, Eric, who's my fiance, he's an engineer. He self manufactures, so he kinda does all the operations, and he builds our web site and finances and all the things that make a business run. So we all bring a very special role to the table, but that's where the initial idea came from. And so because it started out of my eating disorder recovery, our goal has always really been to make food fun and playful and light. Because I think, especially in the better for you food space, there's a lot of this messaging around, like, don't eat this, don't eat that. And I've spent you know, I struggled with an eating disorder for over a decade. And I just spent, like, so many years being so terrified of food and kinda living in this prison of all these food rules that I had created for myself.

Ali Bonar [00:10:54]:
And so I understand from a, you know, first person's perspective, like, is no way to live. And food is not meant to be stressful. It's not meant to be rigid. It's supposed to be something you share with loved ones, you celebrate with, you cheer yourself up with. Like, it's inherently very emotional and cultural and political and all the things. And so I think just going back to basics of, like, why do we eat food? Because number 1, it tastes good. So taste is our, you know, first and foremost number one priority. And then secondly, you know, our product is allergen free, but it's not from a place of, like, don't eat gluten, don't eat sugar, all these things.

Ali Bonar [00:11:30]:
It's like our product is accessible no matter what your dietary restrictions are or your allergies are. You can eat this, and it will bring a little bit of joy to your day.

Jeffrey Stern [00:11:41]:
At what point in, you know, throwing the the oats into the the Vitamix, you know, do you do you take it from, you know, personal experimentation to thinking about, you know, could we could we actually create a business and, like, the entrepreneurial leap kind of embedded in that.

Ali Bonar [00:11:58]:
Right. I know. It is a huge leap, especially because at the time I guess a little more context. I I have raging ADHD, so I always tell I'm a really bad storyteller. I, like, tend to jump around depending on the person asking. But, yeah, at the time, you know, Eric and I were living in San Francisco. We had great paying jobs working in tech, and we had a great life in San Francisco and lots of friends. And there was really no reason why, on paper, we would have left our full time jobs.

Ali Bonar [00:12:27]:
But Eric was working for a big consulting firm. I was working for a health tech startup, very well funded. And even though, yeah, on paper, everything seemed great, we just both felt this desire to do something of our own, and we've always both been really entrepreneurial. We actually had a few other company ideas before this one we were gonna start. And it just we knew that we were young enough. You know, we didn't have kids yet. We didn't have many responsibilities. And those jobs would always be there for us if things crumbled and, you know, we would never be homeless.

Ali Bonar [00:13:00]:
Our parents would, like, let us move in if, you know, we needed them. So we really didn't have a lot to lose in our minds at the time. In hindsight, it was kinda crazy though. But we, so we actually, you know, started working on it just nights and weekends. And I had built up, like, 10,000 or so followers at the time on Instagram because I was sharing my eating disorder recovery, and I was, again, oversharing online, really vulnerable, really authentic. And I think people gravitated towards that because it was a time in which people weren't sharing authentically online. It was a lot of, like, filtered photos of their cappuccino and, like, Valencia filter. And so it was jarring, I think.

Ali Bonar [00:13:39]:
And people were compelled to follow because, you know, I'm posting about binge eating and all these things that are not sexy and typically share it to the public. And because of that, we I had a little, almost launchpad community that I just started teasing this idea to because, again, it's a new idea. It sounds sexy to invent something, but the reality is you can ask any entrepreneur who's created a category or a product idea. Like, the customer education is hell on earth. And it takes so much time. Like, we're 7 years into this business now, and it's still, like I'm sure the number of times I've explained what granola butter is to people, it must be in the millions at this point. Like so, yeah, but we had a little Launchpad test market on social media, and it was really low lift. And so we launched preorders January of 2018 and then officially launched March of 2018.

Ali Bonar [00:14:32]:
And the response was really exciting, and people just got the idea. I think it's just weird enough, but just familiar enough. It combines these 2, like, classic Americana products. Right? Granola and then peanut butter. I mean, our product's nut free, but it's the same idea, like a spread. And so I think granola butter, it was, like, new enough but familiar enough that people actually did understand the idea. And so we started producing in a commissary kitchen in San Diego. Eric and I would fly down every single weekend and make a batch and then fly back Sunday night or early Monday morning and go to work at our tech jobs.

Ali Bonar [00:15:09]:
We did nights and weekends for about a year until we got into Whole Foods, just one region. And then we were like, we can't do this. We can't. Like, we're not doing either job well, and something had to give, and we really just went all in on Oat House. But that was, yeah, 20 probably summer 2019, maybe a little later when we went full time. So there wasn't like one moment where we decided, you know, we're gonna do this all in. I guess it was when we quit our full time jobs, but it also felt like instead of jumping off a cliff, we kind of stepped off a curb. And I know people do things different ways.

Ali Bonar [00:15:46]:
I personally didn't feel comfortable just jumping off a cliff as soon as I had this product idea and leaving my full time job because number 1, living in San Francisco Francisco is insanely expensive. And I didn't wanna be, you know, financially, like, shit out of luck. But number 2, I find my best work and my best creativity comes when I'm not stressed financially. And so having that little bit of a cushion and allowing us to save money for about a year before we left, I think, really did help us in hindsight. So

Jeffrey Stern [00:16:18]:
Well and since then, you know, not not to jump the gun, but I I'm curious how you've kind of broken down in retrospect some of these chapters, you know, knowing that Oat House is now in, you know, 5,000 plus retailers and has grown to a considerable scale. How do you kind of break down the the evolution of the the business and and what you've built over time?

Ali Bonar [00:16:39]:
Yeah. I mean, it's funny because, yeah, 7 years in, I guess, had you told me, you know, years ago that I it would we'd be doing this for 7 years, I probably would have cried or, like, laughing or face or both at the same time. I don't know. I think it was when we started, it was the time of, like, Casper, Warby Parker, you know, all these, like, super high growth, high funded companies that are just, like, blowing money on Facebook ads and, you know, exiting in 4 years or less or whatever it was. And so that was sort of what we anticipated happening. And we actually have grown our business in a much more sustainable way. So we haven't raised a ton of capital. We've self manufactured.

Ali Bonar [00:17:22]:
Obviously, food is so different than the tech world that we both came from, for better or for worse. But, yeah, it's just it's taken longer than expected, but I think we've also, in a weird way, done the right thing because we've just built such strong business fundamentals and, you know, we built a sustainable business. And it's funny because a lot of investors we reached out to in the early days, they were like, oh, you guys, you have to grow 10 times as fast and burn all this cash. And then now they're coming back to us, and so we didn't go that direction, obviously. And now, you know, the tide has shifted to, like, profitability and everything. And so they're coming back and they're like, oh, this is so exciting what you guys are doing. You're profitable, self manufacturer. And so it's like the trends will constantly be changing, and you just have to stay true to, like, what you believed in.

Ali Bonar [00:18:08]:
And I didn't want to build a factory. I didn't want to go into manufacturing, but it's just what the business required because no one had done no no one had created granola butter before. And so there wasn't anyone out there that could make it for us, and so we just had to do it ourselves and figure it out. And so it's you know, I don't know. It's maybe we would have grown faster had we outsourced and figured out, you know, a way to have someone else make it for us, but there's also pros to self manufacturing. So everything happens for a reason. But, yeah, I think I'm really, you know, proud of what we've built. And at this point in the journey, I am tired transparently, and I think a lot of founders, they are afraid to admit that.

Ali Bonar [00:18:48]:
But it's, like, it's exhausting, you know, running a business for 7 years, and it's you're in fight or flight all the time. And I'm super open about it, you know, because I don't wanna paint this picture of, like, everything's great. And, you know, I love what I do every single day because I fantasize about selling the business or moving on or doing something else, but I also get so much joy and fulfillment out of what we do. So it's probably what I imagine having kids is like, where you're like, this is really fucking hard, but it's also the most rewarding thing I've ever done. So, yeah, I think depending on the day when you ask me, it's I can go either way. But, yeah, I'm really proud of what we've built so far.

Jeffrey Stern [00:19:25]:
Yeah. Well, I'll pull on the the openness thread and ask about, kind of at the highest level, like, what your philosophy on on branding is and what you've found to be the the implications of of being as authentic in your approach to branding as you have been as, you know, personally, you know, I guess what people will call building in public to a degree, but, like, just your perspective on that.

Ali Bonar [00:19:51]:
Yeah. I don't know any different. Again, you know, it's funny because Eric and I were just in couples therapy last night. Our our therapist graduated us, which I guess is a good thing, but we ended the session. I turned to him and I was like, did we just get fired by our therapist? And he was like, no. I think we graduated. But we go once every other week, and it's been really helpful personally and for the business. But something that we talked about last night, which is relevant to this, is just, you know, how we're like, do we approach things so differently? And I'm, again, just such an oversharer, and he's someone who, for some reason, we started talking about social media.

Ali Bonar [00:20:27]:
And he's like, yeah. You know, I go to post something, and then I just think to myself, like, no one cares about this. And then I just delete it, and I don't post. And he, like, the only time he posted was when we got engaged, I think, 2 years ago. And before that, it was, like the last time he posted on Instagram was, like, 5 years before that. So I think, you know, for someone like him, maybe that's not the way he would go about growing the company. But for me, it, again, is just second nature. And there's no part of me that feels like, oh, I'm building in public in, you know, a way that's strategic or, you know, I'm doing this because you're supposed to.

Ali Bonar [00:21:01]:
It's just it's how I operate. It's in my DNA is, you know, if I'm going through something, I'm gonna share about it on social media. And, yeah, I think what's been great about that is it's given our community, our customers, our audience, whatever you want to call them, it makes them feel along for the ride. It makes them feel especially for the people who have been with us since day 1, like, they feel bought in. They feel like I am a part of this team even though I don't work for them. Like, I know what's going on. They feel like they're friends with us. And I just followed a lot of brands before I started this company on social media, and I was like, I don't know anything about you guys.

Ali Bonar [00:21:40]:
Like, you're trying to sell me your product. I don't know what's going on behind the scenes. Like, who makes how do you make the products? Where do you source your ingredients? Like, who are you people? And I think there's something really nice about brands that just humanize themselves. And again, it's like not in a PR strategic way, but just like you feel connected to those brands, and they're not these faceless organizations. And admittedly, it has been harder as we've grown to continue to do that because I'm just busier. And it's actually a goal of mine in 2025 to post more on social media, like on our brand, either Instagram stories or feed posts because, you know, all of a sudden, I'm out delegating out all these things and my face, you know, and my what what got us to where we are now, I'm not doing that anymore, really. And so I'm we're becoming one of those, like, faceless organizations, and I'm like, woah. Woah.

Ali Bonar [00:22:31]:
So I can see how it can happen, you know, the bigger you get. But I think it is really important, and maybe it's not the founder if, say, you're camera shy, but having someone from the company be either like a representative or just showing different faces of what's going on behind the scenes because people crave that. And, like, humans connect with humans. You know, they don't connect with venture backed faceless organizations. So, yeah, I think it's just like who we are, and there's no real strategy behind it. But it has worked, I think, to our benefit because people just feel connected.

Jeffrey Stern [00:23:04]:
Yeah. Well, I I think when it comes from a place of authenticity, it it just resonates more than it does otherwise. I mean, it's very it's quite obvious when the reverse is true, you know, like, how uncomfortable it can be when it I don't know that I fully grasped until recently, you know, how serious of a business implication it has, you know, the whole kind of influencer marketing and how, like, as a acquisition channel, it can, you know, really drive businesses at a scale that I I don't know that everyone outside of the social media world understands yet.

Ali Bonar [00:23:40]:
Yeah. Influencer is powerful. I feel like it's interest it's changed a lot, though, since we I remember when we first launched, we would have, you know, an influencer post about us, and it's like crazy sales. Like, you could see you could measure the impact immediately when someone one person shared about you. And I think it's just more saturated now, and people are consumers are smarter. They know all these influencers are somehow being paid by these brands. And so I think as a business, transparently, it's gotten harder. So we've actually done more, like, collab flavors with influencers.

Ali Bonar [00:24:15]:
So we just did our Blue Monster flavor with Matt Peterson, and, you know, we paid him obviously to do the collab with us. But it's not just like, oh, we're paying this influencer for 1 Instagram story that disappears in 24 hours. It's we're gonna fly him to Cleveland. We're gonna he's gonna meet the team. We're gonna, you know, do a photo shoot there. We're gonna get content of him in our facility. Like, it's just more deep. It's I think the deeper partnerships have been really successful as social media has evolved because then, you know, he ended up sharing about us probably 20 times during the partnership.

Ali Bonar [00:24:51]:
And so, yeah, I think you just have to evolve with all these platforms. And I mentioned this before we started recording, but, like, with TikTok, they say is dying. January 19th or, you know, getting banned. But

Jeffrey Stern [00:25:02]:
Yes.

Ali Bonar [00:25:03]:
I'm not scared of it. Like, everyone's freaking out. It's like I think when things like this happen, it's great because either it's gonna evolve into something else or, you know, Instagram will get stronger. Like, it's just you have to pivot and roll the punches always.

Jeffrey Stern [00:25:17]:
Yeah. So what what was the path to Cleveland?

Ali Bonar [00:25:21]:
Yes. Great question. The path to Cleveland was a long and winding one. When we started in I'm originally from San Diego as is Ari, my other cofounder, and then Eric is from Santa Barbara. So 3 California kids. How we ended up in Cleveland, we, you know, started our facility was in San Diego, got way too expensive. We had, like, 2,000 square feet there, bleeding money, and then, you know, we needed a bigger space, so we found 11,000 square feet in Philadelphia. And we were in Philly for 3 years, had a great experience there, and then, you know, we got into Target.

Ali Bonar [00:25:59]:
Our business was growing, and we needed more space, and we were open to move anywhere. We looked at Dallas. We looked at St. Louis. You know, there's not a lot of food grade manufacturing facilities in the US. That's something I didn't know before I started this company. I thought, like, there's warehouses everywhere. But especially with, you know, the type of operations we're doing, we needed, like, very specific details.

Ali Bonar [00:26:22]:
And

Jeffrey Stern [00:26:22]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Ali Bonar [00:26:23]:
They're in small towns in the middle of nowhere with a population of, like, 2,000 people. So that wasn't gonna fly. Like, we're pretty flexible. I'll move to Cleveland. I didn't know anyone here. But I'm not gonna move to, like, a tiny town in the middle of Nebraska. Sorry for anyone who lives in a tiny town in the middle of Nebraska. Just not for me personally.

Ali Bonar [00:26:42]:
But, you know, we visited Cleveland last August, and it was perfect weather, classic. You know? Summer

Jeffrey Stern [00:26:48]:
It always is.

Ali Bonar [00:26:49]:
Right out. Yeah. The lake was sparkling. I was like, oh my god. This looks like San Diego. This is amazing. So we signed on the spot, and, yeah, we've been here for a little over a year, bought a house. We're settling down, putting down roots, and our facility here is really incredible because it's so affordable.

Ali Bonar [00:27:06]:
So, you know, we have about 45,000 square feet here, and we really can grow, I mean, until we sell the business, really. So we can do upwards of, you know, I would say $75,000,000 in this facility just with, like, a few automation tweaks. And we're not anywhere near that revenue number, just to be clear at this point in time, but it's good to feel like we don't have to pick up and move our whole business again because that obviously was extremely it just added years to my life. Like, I know that or took off years to my life. I mean but yeah. So I think it feels nice. Okay. We're gonna be here probably for the next, you know, 5 years or so, and people have been amazing.

Ali Bonar [00:27:47]:
I think I've never lived in the Midwest before. People are so kind, so down to earth, and I had a hard time making friends in the Philly area. It was COVID also, but I have made so many friends in Cleveland. Like, people are so genuinely kind. And coming from more the East Coast vibe, I was like it was alarming. I was like, what do you guys want from me? Why are you being so nice? Like, what are you trying to sell me? And it was just like very genuine and refreshing. So we love it a lot here. Obviously, you know, the winters are different than San Diego winters, but there's I've been really falling in love with the seasons, and there's a lot there's so, you know, so many pros too.

Ali Bonar [00:28:24]:
So we really like it.

Jeffrey Stern [00:28:27]:
Yes. But I think that's, you know, what we originally bonded over when we first met as well.

Ali Bonar [00:28:32]:
Yes. Yes. Exactly. Yes.

Jeffrey Stern [00:28:35]:
What what have you learned about scale? You know, as the business has grown, you mentioned already, you know, the the ability to grow with the business. How have you thought about that, and what have what have you learned along the way with the challenges of of scaling?

Ali Bonar [00:28:50]:
Yes. What have I learned about scaling? Okay. So I think I always imagined scaling to be this, like, perfectly gradual up into the right curve, you know, line, and it is a staircase. It is like you know? And sometimes it even goes down. Right? It's so the trend is up into the right when you're really zoomed out. But when you zoom in on a day to day, week to week, month to month basis, it feels like you're not growing. And that's why I love like, I know people are, you know, a little iffy about New Year's resolutions, but I love that time of we're coming up on the new year. And I just think it is really special to look back and just kinda reflect on, like, wow, what have we accomplished this past year? I mean, a year ago, we were just sort of getting settled in Cleveland, getting things up and running with our facility.

Ali Bonar [00:29:36]:
So a lot has happened in the last year, even if on a day to day basis, you feel like nothing's happening. But what I've learned about scale is, especially for us, scaling operations and machinery and automation is hard. And especially when you're creating a new product, you know, like, we just automated our filling. So we were actually filling every single jar by hand, and we calculated it. Mhmm. We filled over 4,000,000 jars by hand in the history of business. And, like, Eric used to sleep, you know, in these wrist guards because of the carpal tunnel. Like, it it's not great, you know, for our bodies.

Ali Bonar [00:30:15]:
We've definitely, again, taken years off our lives because of this business, but it's all we could figure out and afford at the time. And so we finally got this machine, and our product consistency is different than that of peanut butter, almond butter, and so it's just a little trickier. You know, it sounds so easy. Like, oh, just use the same machinery, but there's a lot actually that goes into the viscosity and being able to use something like that. So now we're starting to pump everything. We, you know, have this machine that the jars come in 6 at a time. It comes down. It fills them.

Ali Bonar [00:30:46]:
Then they go out. Yeah. It's really exciting. And I guess, like, I never thought I'd be excited about manufacturing. I'm such a marketing creative girly, but it's really cool. And I think it it just like, those moments are sort of these, even though sometimes it feels like you're not making any changes, like, those milestone moments, you're like, wow. Okay. We are growing here.

Ali Bonar [00:31:08]:
But, yeah, that's, like, one thing I've learned about scale is that, you know, it's not consistent. It's not a straight line. I would say the other thing about scale that I've learned is so I I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this term, but business dysmorphia. So it's sort of like body dysmorphia. Like, a lot of women and men struggle with body dysmorphia. It's like, you know, you'll look in the mirror and you're like, what do I really look like? You know, on any given day, like, I'm a 10. I'm the hottest thing to walk this planet. Or you could be like, I'm a troll.

Ali Bonar [00:31:38]:
Like, no one should see me today. And it's, like, happens in the same 24 hours sometimes depending on hormones. But sometimes I feel like I have business dysmorphia where, you know, people will tell me like, oh, you guys are killing it. Oh my gosh. You're growing so much. And it's like, sometimes you're in the business. You know, you're swimming in that water, and you're just, are we doing well? Are we not doing well? Like, are we growing quickly enough? Are we scaling quickly enough? So that's something else I've learned about scale is, yeah, you just like I don't know. You never know how you're doing, I guess.

Ali Bonar [00:32:12]:
And so, again, I like looking back and zooming out because that really helps with perspective because sometimes you can be too zoomed in, and you just feel like, what is the point of all this? And why am I stressing myself out every day? You know, like, what's happening?

Jeffrey Stern [00:32:26]:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'll ask you then, you know, like, what what is the point of all this and and why are you doing it every day?

Ali Bonar [00:32:31]:
It's like,

Jeffrey Stern [00:32:31]:
what are you hoping to accomplish, and what is the impact you're hoping to drive? What what is success? How do you think about what success means Yes.

Ali Bonar [00:32:39]:
In the

Jeffrey Stern [00:32:40]:
context of what you're doing?

Ali Bonar [00:32:41]:
Good segue. Good segue. I teed you up for that one. Yeah. Why are we doing all this? For me so I think, again, speaking about, you know, founders, and we all are so different and have different strengths, we also are driven by different things, which I think is really interesting. So Eric is really competitive. He's competitive with himself mostly. Ari, you know, Ari is like a taste maker.

Ali Bonar [00:33:05]:
He he's a creative. He loves to like, it's his food is his love language. Like, he loves to create and make things for other people. He also does ceramics, and he plays music. And I think that for him is kind of what lights him up. For me, I love a wow. Like, my first word when I was a baby was wow. Like, I just love a wow moment.

Ali Bonar [00:33:26]:
I love, like, creating, you know, something new and and innovative and, yeah, just shaking things up. Like, that really fulfils me. And so and also helping other people. Like, I you know, going through what I went through, I think I just felt so alone. Like, it the eating disorder wasn't the hardest part of what happened During those 10 years, it was feeling like I was the only one who was going through it, and I had no one to talk to. And, you know, it's not something you wanna just, like, start chatting about with your barista. And so I think that also really fulfils me is just helping other people feel less alone. But those are the things that keep me going.

Ali Bonar [00:34:05]:
Like, it's not necessarily you know, as we kind of climbed, I guess, the so, yeah, the ladder, so to speak, and gotten into Target, gotten around Shark Tank, like, all these kind of bucket list things, I expected more fulfillment out of them. I expected to feel better than I did when they actually happened. And so I think what I'm realizing 7 years in is, like, girl bossing so hard and, like, checking these things off my list. And what society tells you is gonna fulfill you, like, actually does not fulfill me. And I also noticed that because I was delegating out a lot of the things that fulfilled me. Right? So I used to answer all of our Instagram DMs, and people would message me, like, photos of their baby eating granola butter and being like, you know, who also has so many allergies. Like, this is the only food they can eat that brings them joy. And it's like those moments really keep me going as a founder because you kinda get to the point where you're just putting out fires left, right, and center, and that's when I start to feel burned out.

Ali Bonar [00:35:02]:
And, like, why am I doing this? You know? Because all you deal with all day is problems. So, again, yeah, in 2025, it's sort of like getting back to creation, content creation, getting back to, you know, maybe doing some in person, like, sampling. And I know that doesn't seem like the best use of my time, but it's like reconnecting with the customer.

Jeffrey Stern [00:35:20]:
Yeah.

Ali Bonar [00:35:21]:
So I think sometimes, sounders, we lose sight of that because, obviously, you know, we're just trying to keep the business alive, and we don't have a lot of free time, and, you know, we're just trying to grow this thing. And so we don't stop and think like, oh, what is my why? Like, you know, why am I doing this? It's just like, alright, wake up another day. You know, keep keep grinding, keep going. But, yeah, I think that really has helped me because I have gone through so many moments of burnout in this business. I mean, pretty much, I would say every 6 months, I'm like, I can't do this. I cannot do another day of this business. And then, you know, a month later, I'm like, I have the best job in the world. And, so, yeah, it's definitely a roller coaster.

Ali Bonar [00:36:05]:
But going back to your why, I don't know, helps in those darker moments.

Jeffrey Stern [00:36:11]:
Yeah. It certainly does. You know, they're grounded, oriented in that. What was the experience of Shark Tank like?

Ali Bonar [00:36:19]:
Great question. Shark Tank was an interesting experience. It definitely was a bucket list moment for me. I mean, growing up, used to watch it all the time. Can't believe I literally went on the show. Like, it still feels not real, actually. Kinda feels like a dream, a fever dream. But it was definitely a learning experience.

Ali Bonar [00:36:39]:
I think, obviously, hindsight's 2020. I probably would have approached it much differently knowing what I know now. I think I approached it a little bit too much like an actual investor pitch, not a TV show. Probably would have gone in with a little bit more intriguing, competitive of an offer. I think we didn't offer enough. We weren't willing to give up much equity. And so, you know, if sorry, spoiler alert for anyone who hasn't watched the episode. Pause it here.

Ali Bonar [00:37:09]:
But if you have watched it, you know, the Sharks try it. They love it, and then no one really puts out an offer. Like, everyone's kinda like they kinda glaze over when we present our offer. I think we were giving up I don't even remember what our deal was. I think it was like 6% or something. And, you know, I think anything less than 10% equity, they just aren't super interested in. And so I actually thought our episode wasn't gonna air because it just wasn't that exciting of an episode. So if you don't know, they film a bunch of episodes, and they actually only air about half of the episodes they film.

Ali Bonar [00:37:42]:
So I was like, we're not gonna air. This sucks. We just put all this time into filming, flying out to LA, etcetera. But they ended up airing our episode, and I think it was due to me talking about my eating disorder recovery. And so I feel really grateful for that. I feel grateful for having the platform at that scale to be able to share my story because I got flooded with messages after. Not even from people who have experienced that personally, but, you know, husbands who have talked about, you know, their wives or girlfriends going through that or fathers talking about their daughter going through it. So there was a lot that I felt really grateful for that piece.

Ali Bonar [00:38:17]:
And then, of course, the exposure was amazing. You know, Costco reached out to us from it and stuff like that. So it was a great opportunity, but it was our first time on national TV. Even though I am somewhat in the public eye and sort of the face of the brand, I have a thin skin, and I'm sensitive, and I'm human. And

Jeffrey Stern [00:38:36]:
Yeah.

Ali Bonar [00:38:36]:
It's hard to see like, we filmed for, you know, an hour, and they end up kinda editing you down to, I wanna say, like, 8 minutes was our episode. And, yeah, there's just certain things. You don't see the final edit until it's live on national TV. And, of course, there's, like, Reddit threads, you know, just tearing you apart. And so that part is hard, but I think overall, it was a positive experience. And I don't think it's make or break if people are considering doing it for their business, you know, like revenue wise. It was, for us, similar to, like, a new flavor launch revenue wise. I know people have different experiences, and I'm sure if we got a deal, maybe it would have been more revenue.

Ali Bonar [00:39:13]:
But I think there are certain people that hold it to a high regard, like certain retail buyers for some reason. And Yeah. So, yeah, it was, you know, overall net positive.

Jeffrey Stern [00:39:25]:
What what that made me think of for some reason was, in my own journey, I have been rejected, you know, hundreds of times over, mostly on the on the investment side of things. But what I was selling ultimately was, you know, to an enterprise, and it you know, there there's no, like, good proxy for the face of a brand, you know, an enterprise.

Ali Bonar [00:39:46]:
Right.

Jeffrey Stern [00:39:47]:
And I'd I'm curious, you know, how you deal with what I imagine is probably a similar level of rejection over the course of of this business

Ali Bonar [00:39:56]:
Oh, yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:39:56]:
Where you personally are so you are the face of the brand.

Ali Bonar [00:40:00]:
Yes. Oh, it's so hard. I mean, from early days, I was doing back to back demos at Whole Foods. I was doing 8 hours of demos, like, day after day. You know, just customers, they don't expect the founder of the company to be the one doing the demo. Like, I'll admit, you know, to give them a little credit, but, I mean, people are savage. Right? And just it was like a night like twisting the knife. You know what I'm? Like, standing right there, and they just, like, spitting it out or just saying, disgusting, like, oh, what is this? You know? And, of course, it's the minority.

Ali Bonar [00:40:35]:
Like, our product isn't, you know, sauerkraut or something that's particularly polarizing. It's like oats and maple syrup and spices. Like, it's pretty delicious just, you know, objectively. But you remember, like, that's what stands out to you is the ones that are negative. And so, like, from that to pitching our product to, you know, all these old white men investors and telling them about my eating disorder recovery and just seeing them, like, shut down or shift uncomfortably or glaze over or or all of the above. And then, you know, just having no emotional connection and just kinda saying, like, this is a dumb idea or we're not interested, it's hard. Like and it's of course, my thin my skin has gone thicker over the years, and I've been able to separate myself and not tie all of my self worth to the product or our company, especially lately. I would say in the last year, I've really started to intentionally distance myself just emotionally from the business and Yeah.

Ali Bonar [00:41:37]:
Better or for worse. But, yeah, it never gets easier. I think it's like I've spent the last 7 years, like, pouring my life and my passion and everything into this brand. So it's hard because you wanna stay plugged in, you know, so it's like reading customer reviews, reading customer emails, like seeing what people are saying about the product. But having the wherewithal and, you know, having the emotional regulation to be able to logically distance yourself and say, okay, you know, here is what is valuable feedback and here is maybe someone who is emotionally charged and struggling with things in their personal life, and they're taking it out on me. I don't know. So, yeah, it's tough. And I don't have the answer, but I will I just want to also, yeah, validate, you know, it's something that I struggle with.

Ali Bonar [00:42:24]:
And it has gotten easier over the years slightly, but we hired an amazing customer service manager, Jessica, who handles most of that, and I actually do for my own mental health, I don't read a lot of the customer emails. And she kinda sends me, like, a summary every week of, you know, here's what's actually important because I think some people can handle it. Like, I remember hearing the founder of Caulipower, like, the cauliflower crust pizza brand. They're massive, but I remember hearing an interview with her, and she's like, I read to this day. I mean, they think they're doing, like, 100 of 1,000,000 of dollars in revenue. She's like, I read every single customer email that comes through, and I'm like, love that for you. Could not be me. I mean, my mental health I would be, like, in a psychiatric ward.

Ali Bonar [00:43:09]:
Like, I that could not be me, but some people can. So I think it's just knowing your tolerance and your mental fortitude.

Jeffrey Stern [00:43:18]:
Yes. Well, you mentioned, you know, the the team, and and, how it's grown over time. What have you learned about managing a team and and people and and bringing them into the the fold of your company?

Ali Bonar [00:43:33]:
Such a good question. I think that people management is the hardest part, period. And what's tough as a founder is I had never really managed people before as a first time founder. Right? It's like I came from a tech company, but I started this business I'm recently 32. I started this business when I was 25. Like, I came from the I was an entry level marketing associate before this. Like, I wasn't managing anyone except maybe the intern. So I don't have management experience and, you know, I'm just doing the best I can.

Ali Bonar [00:44:07]:
And suddenly, we have a little over 32 employees now. And Yeah. That's 32 livelihoods. That's 32 people with families and own personal issues and goals and aspirations. And I'm someone who is like I feel very, very deeply. I guess they call it like an empath, but I'm always worried about other people's I'm always taking into account other people's emotions and feelings and thoughts, and that can be really draining. And so it has that's been the hardest part for me personally, and especially, you know, when you care so deeply about other people and your business and you, you know, pretty quickly realize that especially in, you know, the manual labor space, there are a lot of people that don't give 2 shits, and it's just a job, and they're just clocking in. So there's been, like, a big learning curve there, but I think it's also really helped me.

Ali Bonar [00:44:59]:
I was a huge people pleaser when I started this business, and I consider myself a recovering people pleaser now. And I don't think we can be a people pleaser and grow a successful business because, you know, there's a way that you can deliver hard news in a kind, gentle way, of course. But, yeah, it's really I mean, I've just grown. I think being an entrepreneur is a self growth journey. Like, not to make it just about, you know, about me, but that definitely it's for me, that's been a huge growth process is learning how to manage other people and learning more about myself. But I think, you know, something that's really helped me is having a really tight unit with my other co founders. So, you know, Eric and Arpi, like, even though we've been doing this business for 7 years and Eric is, you know, my fiance, we it just works. We figured out a way.

Ali Bonar [00:45:49]:
I think having, like, our trio is really helpful because there's it's never like me against anyone else. It's, you know, there's a triangle. So there's always sort of like a mediator, and Yeah. We never, like, gang up on one another. You know, it's never 2 against 1. But I think no matter what happens, like, we've been through some crazy shit. We've had some, like, insane experiences with employees and stuff that I could fill a book with, and people would be like, woah. Like, this isn't like, it would be an insane Netflix documentary.

Ali Bonar [00:46:19]:
And, you know, we always have our back. At the end of the day, like, it's us 3. We started this business. We have been through hell and back growing this thing. And so I think, like, that really has I could never be a solo founder. Like, that would just for me, I think, would be the hardest thing. And so, like, so much to anyone out there who's a solo founder. So having a good and maybe if you are having, like, a board of advisors or, you know, mentors or something who is sort of like your tight circle, but it's like, you know, us 3 of this tight circle and no one no one can, you know, break it or get in, and that's really helped.

Ali Bonar [00:46:51]:
But, yeah, I think the people management side is hard. I try to learn as much as possible and have great mentors and be, you know, a conscious leader, but it definitely is probably the hardest part of running a business for me.

Jeffrey Stern [00:47:04]:
Yeah. It it I think it was just one of the hardest parts of running a business.

Ali Bonar [00:47:08]:
Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:47:10]:
At the beginning of our conversation, I think you had hinted at this idea that had you known what you know now, you may not have done what you have done.

Ali Bonar [00:47:19]:
Right. Yeah. Absolutely.

Jeffrey Stern [00:47:20]:
So I'm I would like to understand, like, what you know now. And, you know, like, what if you would have not in the sense of, like, regrets, but, like, what do you know now? What comes to mind when I ask that question?

Ali Bonar [00:47:31]:
I know. I oh my gosh. I don't even know where to begin. Yeah. Sadly, I'm more cynical now, and sadly like, I don't want it to be a I don't wanna be a downer, but I I'm just realistic. Right? Like, I just don't wanna pay Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:47:44]:
Yeah. Your

Ali Bonar [00:47:45]:
and I think a lot of people listening are either probably founders or entrepreneurs themselves, so it's like they get it. You know, I think when we started the business, I've always been like a I've always been a very optimistic glass half full person, and I still am to this day. But, also, what led us to start the business was all 3 of us were extremely naive, And I don't think we would have started the business had we not been naive, and it actually really worked to our benefit because none of us had worked in CPG. And so, you know, RA was in the food industry, but it was restaurants and fine dining. And and there was a lot that actually helped us because of that because, you know, say, for example, when we got into Whole Foods, I didn't know that there was brokers that you were supposed to use. So I just started guessing the Whole Foods buyer email and, like, plugged and played, you know, first initial dot last name@wholefoods.com until I didn't get a bounce back and just, like, reached out to her directly, sent her samples. She sent the new item form, and I got the new item form, and I'm like, I have no idea how to fill this out, but I'm gonna figure it out. So I think we did kind of, like, save a lot of money, cut a lot of corners by sort of just not really knowing and feeling our way through in the beginning.

Ali Bonar [00:48:53]:
And I think knowing what I know now, yeah, there's nothing I regret. There's nothing I would have done differently because, obviously, I learned a hell of a lot. But

Jeffrey Stern [00:49:02]:
Yeah.

Ali Bonar [00:49:02]:
I think I just poured so much of myself into the business, and I lost a lot of friendships. I lost mentally, it was really hard. I was very isolated. You know, the first, I would say, like, 5 years of our business, I lost a lot of my twenties. Like, I lost literally half the second half of my twenties. Again, I wouldn't give it up, but it's just it's not one of those things growing a business is not one of those things that it's not instant gratification. Right? It's sort of this delayed gratification. And there are these little hits of, like, oh, we got into Target, or, oh, we're going on Shark Tank.

Ali Bonar [00:49:41]:
But they're so fleeting, and it's not rewarding. And so, yeah, I don't really have a straight answer for you. Like, again, it has been rewarding at times, but it also has just been so soul sucking at times, and it's really lonely. I think that's the thing about being a founder is, like, you're not gonna tell your employees, you know, I'm really struggling mentally today, and I'm burned out, and, you know, I'm exhausted, and I wanna quit, but I can't because I'm supporting 32 livelihoods. You don't do that. Like, you show up. You know, we have a morning stand up meeting at 9:30 every day with our whole team, and I show up, and I have a smile on my face, and I'm like, hi, guys. Like, happy Monday.

Ali Bonar [00:50:19]:
How's everyone's weekend? And you just have to do it. And, you know, I think that's why I'm such a big proponent of therapy. I have many therapists, and I've built many therapists and coaches. And, you know, you have to have a team outside or yourself because I definitely am the first to admit I don't have all the answers. But it's one of those things where it's kinda like, you know, you probably hear these amazing athletes or musicians. Like, they kinda say, you know, when they write music or they play their sport, like, that and I'm not particularly super religious, but like whatever you believe in like, you know, source or spirit or God, it's like that it was like channeled through them. I kind of feel that way with entrepreneurship where I'm like, this wasn't my choice. Like, I, you know, I wish I could be just content and happy at my 9 to 5 because this isn't an easy breath.

Ali Bonar [00:51:11]:
Do you know what I mean? Like, it's not a good spot to start your own business, but I just would not be content and happy had I not done this. And I'm so glad that I did because I'm never gonna look back at the end of my life and regret doing it. Right? But it's fucking hard, and it's just the most challenging thing I've ever done. So I hope that answers your question. Again, it's like, I don't have a straight answer, but it's just it's been high and it's been low, basically.

Jeffrey Stern [00:51:38]:
Yeah. That that's that is the journey.

Ali Bonar [00:51:40]:
Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:51:41]:
What are you most excited about?

Ali Bonar [00:51:44]:
I am I am very excited for 2025 because we have new innovation coming out that it's our first products outside of the jar. And I think as someone who has raging ADHD, and I'm just I love new things. Like, I'm a manifester. Like, I I'm like the the little tinder of the fire. Like, I love starting something. You know, I love, like, the 0 to 1. So this is really exciting for me because, you know, 7 years of pushing the same products, like, it gets old, to be honest. So that's really exciting.

Ali Bonar [00:52:18]:
We're launching into Costco in the spring, which is amazing, and that's gonna be a huge growth opportunity for us and just, like, volume and marketing. And it's also really like, the athlete in me, like, it's really competitive. So it's like you get a 12 week rotation, and it's make or break. Like, if you don't do well, if you don't sell enough, then you're out. And if you do do well, they're gonna start opening you up like crazy in other Costco regions. And it's like, okay. Now can you handle the volume kind of thing? So it's like a high pressure situation, which I just absolutely thrive in. And then personally, I am getting married in July, and I'm really excited to start a family.

Ali Bonar [00:52:52]:
I'm 32. I never really thought of myself as like a nurturer or motherhood. Like, that never really was something that I I I think some women, you know, early on, they're like, I wanna be a mom. And I never actually felt that way early on. I I was like really, you know, girl bossing so hard, and I was like, I wanna be a engaged. I was, like, focused on my career, and I think hitting all these bucket list sort of thing checking these things off my list and, again, feeling like, oh, this isn't really, like, fulfilling me the way I thought it would. You know? And and kind of realizing, like, what is important? And to me, it's, you know, family, friends, community. Like, that is what really matters.

Ali Bonar [00:53:30]:
And, yeah, just since I've gotten older, I've had this urge to, you know, start a family, and and I think that will be interesting to see how running a business and raising kids goes, but I also think it will be really beautiful and probably balance me out in a way that I need and reprioritize things. So

Jeffrey Stern [00:53:50]:
Lots to look forward to.

Ali Bonar [00:53:52]:
Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:53:54]:
Well, a lot more I I could ask you about, but we'll we'll bookend it here a little bit. And I'll ask about as we make our way to Cleveland

Ali Bonar [00:54:07]:
Yep.

Jeffrey Stern [00:54:08]:
Well, I guess is there something you wish I had asked you about?

Ali Bonar [00:54:11]:
Oh, good question. I mean, no. I feel like we went really, really deep, which I love. Like, I I love a podcast because it's just I love to go deep. You know? And I love to be honest. And that's the thing with social media sometimes. Like, I Instagram reels, I think it's 90 seconds they cut you off at, and I'm always like, oh, like, it's so surface level sometimes. You know? So, no, I I thought it was a great conversation.

Ali Bonar [00:54:35]:
I appreciate you asking that, though.

Jeffrey Stern [00:54:37]:
Yeah. For sure. Well, our traditional closing question is for a hidden gem in Cleveland. And I always it's fun to get it from Clevelanders, but it's I find, you know, as an outsider myself, more fun to get it from people who, you know, are here

Ali Bonar [00:54:53]:
Yeah. Who

Jeffrey Stern [00:54:54]:
are not from Cleveland. Yeah. Because it it's like all hidden gem. But

Ali Bonar [00:54:58]:
For sure. Yeah. Hidden gem. I know most people probably do restaurants. I am going to shout out my personal trainer, Brandon. I just went this morning, actually, but he does semi private group training. So I actually have met most of my friends in Cleveland through this class, and I just go twice a week. And it's like it's so amazing because it's, you know, between anywhere from, like, I've been the only one in the class sometimes, so it's like true private, you know, personal training.

Ali Bonar [00:55:27]:
Yep. Six people in a class. So it's really small group strength training. And number 1, I've gotten so much stronger because I'm, like, squatting more than my body weight. And, you know, just doing this stuff that was always so intimidating to me, just walking into a gym full of, like, sweaty, grunting dudes, there's, like, a lot of kinda hands on support there. But then number 2, like, the community is really amazing. And he just moved into a new space in Lakewood, which is so beautiful. It's right on Detroit, kinda, right next to Bar Italia, if you've ever been there.

Ali Bonar [00:55:58]:
But, yeah, he does a great job, and just, like, it's a really amazing community. I met so many friends there. So I just wanted to shout him out because he's, like, a true small business hidden gem in Cleveland.

Jeffrey Stern [00:56:10]:
Wonderful. That's perfect. Well, Ally, I just wanna thank you for coming on, sharing your story, being as as open as you are about it.

Ali Bonar [00:56:18]:
Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:56:19]:
And we're lucky to have you in Cleveland.

Ali Bonar [00:56:22]:
Oh, thank you so much. No. This was amazing, and I appreciate you having me. And thank you everyone for listening.

Jeffrey Stern [00:56:28]:
If folks had anything they wanted to follow-up with you about, where where would you point them?

Ali Bonar [00:56:34]:
Yeah. You can DM me on Instagram. It's just my name, alibonar, alib0nar. And then our website is just granolabutter.com