#206: Blake Squires (Findaway, Movable, and Stubl) - Serial Entrepreneur

Blake Squires [00:00:00]:
For me, success is it's not a destination. Kind of back to the the journey of entrepreneurship. Are you waking up in the morning? Are you passionate about what you're doing? Are you able to stretch whatever you want to stretch? I'm a very curious person. So curiosity and just being able to get in and learn things is important to me. So I get to do that every day.

Jeffrey Stern [00:00:26]:
Welcome to the Lay of the Land podcast, where we are exploring what people are building in Cleveland and throughout Northeast Ohio. I am your host, Jeffrey Stern. And today, I had the real pleasure of speaking with Blake Swires, whose whole career is an entire lay of the land in and of itself. Blake started his career in the mid nineteen nineties in Los Angeles, where he first capitalized on disruption by recognizing the convergence of technology and media. Around then, he moved back home to his hometown of Cleveland, Ohio to cofound EverStreet in partnership with both Steve McHale, who we've heard from on episode one ninety six, and Charlie Loguid, who is one of my cofounders at Actual, a new story we've heard back on episode 42. Blake served as COO of Everstream through its acquisition by Concurrent Computer Corp in 02/2005. Blake then cofounded Findaway, a global leader in digital audiobook distribution and makers of Playaway, a preloaded device and digital audiobook product. Findaway was later sold to Spotify in 2,022, a journey which we've heard a little bit about from Mitch Kroll, Blake's cofounder at Findaway, and Mike Belcito, who was an early employee there on episodes one twenty eight and fifty two respectively.

Jeffrey Stern [00:01:40]:
In 02/2011, Blake founded and became CEO of Movable, a software platform combined with wearable technology designed to inspire movement, and he also founded Doctors Borders, an e scripting tool serving medical suppliers, which was sold to Cardinal Health in 02/2018. Venturing into non tech consumer products, Blake teamed with famed inventor John Osher, inventor of the spin brush, to develop a manual razor called Stubble, which was acquired by Edgewell for their Schick line of razors. John and Blake also developed a unique toothbrush that was licensed to Wagon in The UK. In late two thousand twenty two, Blake became a cofounder and COO of Bloom Filter, a process intelligence platform leveraging AI to optimize the product and software development lifecycle, a company whose story we've heard a little bit about from Andrew Wolf, Blake's cofounder on episode one thirty four. In 02/2024, Blake became a board partner for Greycroft, a leading venture capital firm, as well as becoming a fellow for the global design firm IDEO, for his work in building an offering for venture capital firms and their portfolios of early stage companies. In addition to many other things, Blake is also a founding advisor to the Ohio Angel Collective. Like I mentioned at the onset, Blake's reflections read like lay of the land of lay of the land. Blake has built meaningful relationships with so many leaders across Northeast Ohio.

Jeffrey Stern [00:03:05]:
It is hard to enumerate them all. But just across this conversation, beyond those I have already mentioned, we'll tie in Lee Zappas from episode seven, John Kniffick from episode one ninety nine, David Levine from episode one thirty two, A. AC Evans from episode 39, Ray Leach from episode 69, and many more. Beyond the connections, Blake is a formidable builder, inspiring person, and accomplished serial entrepreneur with a deep understanding of how to start, grow, and scale strong teams, brands, and products. Please enjoy this insightful conversation with Blake Squires. Blade of the Land is brought to you and is proudly sponsored by Roundstone Insurance. Headquartered in Rocky River, Ohio, Roundstone shares LaytheLand's same passion for bold ideas and lasting impact from our communities, entrepreneurs, innovators, and leaders. Since 02/2005, Roundstone has pioneered a self funded captive health insurance model that delivers robust savings for small and medium sized businesses.

Jeffrey Stern [00:04:05]:
They are part of the solution to rising health care costs, helping employers offer affordable high quality care while driving job creation and economic growth throughout Northeast Ohio. Like many of the voices featured on Lay of the Land, including Roundstone's founder and CEO, Mike Schroeder, Roundstone believes entrepreneurship, innovation, and community are the cornerstones of progress. To learn more about how Roundstone is transforming employee health benefits by empowering employers to save thousands in per employee per year health care costs, please visit roundstoneinsurance.com. Roundstone Insurance, built for entrepreneurs, backed by innovation, committed to Cleveland. So I was thinking about where the the best place to to start these is, and I've heard you talk before about how entrepreneurship is the the hardest thing that you'll ever do. And so I want to start there with how you found yourself drawn to the hardest thing that you'll ultimately do in the first place and why you find yourself returning to the hardest thing that you can do and why you've found success returning to it over and over again in in your life.

Blake Squires [00:05:11]:
Well, I actually refer to it as a disease, first of all. That's sort of the hardest, but it's a disease because you can't escape it. Really, I was born an entrepreneur. My parents were very entrepreneurial. My dad's orthodontist. Mom's a fine artist, kinda had left brain, right brain going on, and, actually didn't know the word entrepreneur until probably I was in college. Just always set off to do what interest me, and the rest followed. And I guess you call that entrepreneurship.

Blake Squires [00:05:43]:
Watching my parents being independent, my dad being his own boss, my mom being her own boss did have this level of independence, which is always important to me. So as I was on crossroads of considering a job, which is maybe once in my life that I've actually considered a job, I said to myself, do I really wanna be be holed, or do I wanna be able to control my own destiny, have my own own time? So that's kind of from an entrepreneurial standpoint, it really just came about by me following what I wanted to be doing at any point in time. And the biggest thing for me in that is, am I passionate about what I'm doing?

Jeffrey Stern [00:06:21]:
But what did you find yourself passionate about in the earliest days?

Blake Squires [00:06:25]:
So in in high school, I actually got involved in theater, became the technical director of my stage crew in Rocky River for high school. And through that, I learned technology. I learned storytelling through theater. So I really started in this, creative place that was part technology and, again, theater. Ended up with an internship at the Hannah Theater stage. Then that evolved. I met a a guy who owned a lighting company, Electro Stage, so started doing after school concerts and on the weekends down at Nautica Stage. And from there, really kinda fell in love with the the world of performance.

Blake Squires [00:07:05]:
I noticed who was writing the checks when I pick up the check after we do the light. And it was a company called Belkin Productions. And so my senior year in high school, I said, I need to be working for these guys. So I got an internship. So each phase and step just unfolded, in front of itself.

Jeffrey Stern [00:07:26]:
Yeah. I love riffing on this intersection of art and entrepreneurship because I find the parallels between artists and entrepreneurs really interesting because, I mean, they're they're similar in so many ways with I think the parallel that is most obvious to me is that that passion that you referenced that's just overwhelming and exuded and and, like, maybe to a degree that is off putting to other people and and ultimately trying to traverse, you know, a similar kind of product market fit gap in in what it is that they're working to to build.

Blake Squires [00:08:01]:
Yeah. I think it's also the assist of creativity and and just creativity onto itself. It's like artists, product people, entrepreneurs. We we love to create and we like to build. It's interesting when you talk about and I I think about it as music, but art and and and business. The journey with Belkin's, I went off to Ohio State. My sophomore year in Ohio State, Jules Belkin called me and said, would you leave school to come work for us full time? I was 20 years old, and I remembered calling up my parents and saying, hey. I have this opportunity of a lifetime.

Blake Squires [00:08:39]:
I'm going to accept it. I told them that the only reason why I would leave is I was going back to school. I told the Belkins that, and I told my parents I'm I'm going to get my degree. I'm committed to that. I believe and so I took the position, and my job was a production promoters rep. So I was the person that get the contract after it was negotiated. I would set up the entire concert. I run the concert and then do all of the accounting at the end of the concert.

Blake Squires [00:09:10]:
And looking back, what I was doing for every concert was I was starting a business. Every aspect of running a concert is starting a business. You have to manage people. You have to ensure that there's compliance. You have to fall under a budget. And then at the end of the show, you either make money or you don't. So it's like these many product or just these many start up businesses. You know? Did you

Jeffrey Stern [00:09:32]:
have an intuition about that at the time, or is that something you only piece together in reflection looking at the foundation that working and starting concerts kinda laid for more explicit entrepreneurial things?

Blake Squires [00:09:45]:
It was it was upon reflection that parallel, but while I was in the middle of doing this, like, I was the second chair in producing the Grateful Dead show at the Richfield Coliseum. Now I'm aging myself. That was in '23. I did Paul McCartney at the Riverfront Stadium, which was a week and a half long process of setting up the stage, doing the show, tearing it down. But, but so when I was in the middle of doing this job, it definitely, you know, was overwhelming. Right? It was this is more than just doing something and doing it well. This is doing a totality of things at one time with 50 other things coming at you from left field. So in that respect, it came to me in in hindsight and reflection, but in the in the midst of it, I knew I was doing more than just running a concert.

Blake Squires [00:10:36]:
I was learning a lot, and a lot of about business. Again, dealing with creative and with the business side of things.

Jeffrey Stern [00:10:42]:
Did you find your your interest and passion evolving from from the

Blake Squires [00:10:46]:
So I did go back to school.

Jeffrey Stern [00:10:48]:
That's good.

Blake Squires [00:10:50]:
Mhmm. Ohio State. And when I went back to school, there's a company in Columbus called owned by a guy, Scott Steinecker. They own the Newport Music Hall and do all of the promotions and productions in Columbus. Because I was with Belkin, I got to know them well. So when I went back to school, I immediately became vice president of promo west. So I had this kind of dual role of getting through school. School is not my thing.

Blake Squires [00:11:16]:
I did get through thankfully, but, it's really working part of my job and doing the talent buying and, again, production. And the next phase of passion was I started noticing that artists in Columbus, Ohio, there was this whole roots rock movement occurring, and these artists were emerging and record labels were coming in from the posts. And so what did I do? I started an artist management company and started signing up these bands. And in a very short period of time, I got my degree, and then I ended up moving out to LA. And I really call that my true start up business because it was just my, you know, early twenties out in LA running around, to all the record labels and trying to get the most out of the bands that I managed was managing their business affairs, but then all of the radio promotion and marketing. And, again, going back to parallel of entrepreneurship and the create I mean, again, this was an artist as a product. And so I learned very early on how to represent, how to storytell, how to market, and how to really do as best as you can with with what you have in that respect.

Jeffrey Stern [00:12:28]:
What was what was your vision for the company? Did did you have, you know, grand ambitions for what you wanted to build it, or how are you approaching, I guess, the entrepreneurial process at that point?

Blake Squires [00:12:37]:
At that point, it was one foot in front of the other. And I had these these core values in myself that I wanted to have independence. I wanted to make sure that I was always creating things early on. I knew that I wanted to surround my peep myself with people that I actually wanted to be around. And so there were some some some core values that that I was recognizing. I probably didn't know to call them core values or values at the time, but it was really one foot in front of the other, during those times.

Jeffrey Stern [00:13:07]:
Well, may maybe even to to ground the rest of the conversation because, I mean, the the serial entrepreneurship that ensues from there is pretty extraordinary. But in those values, you know, another concept I've heard you riff on before is is to be clear about who it is that you are, not just what it is that that you're doing. And you mentioned maybe it was only after that that you were able to simply articulate maybe that those were values and these are the things that are important to you. But when did that when did that become clear to you that that is kind of a a guiding principle for for what it is that that you wanna be doing?

Blake Squires [00:13:43]:
It came to light, and, a company that I cofounded with Steve McHale was called Big Mama Music, so you could do the parallel. I'm in LA, made my way home. Steve was looking to start a music, something online. It wasn't even meant to be Internet radio at the time, and he went to the Belkins, went to Promo West, and my name kept coming up. So we connected and ended up moving to Cleveland. But Steve, great mentor. I never I was artist manager. I had appreciation for technology.

Blake Squires [00:14:13]:
I had never started a company, certainly a venture backed, at least desire to be venture backed company. So Steve, starting almost day one, he gave me a book called Leadership is an Art by Max Dupree. It is based on servant leadership. It's truest sense, and and so that really stuck with me in a way to not only serve others, but it is in order to do that, you need to to be very values driven as an organization and and really get to the heart of not what you do, but who you are. Christopher Celeste, another partner, phenomenal storyteller, and as well kinda carried the same notion of entrepreneurship is a journey. You really never do figure out what you do. So you sure as hell better start with who you are, and then everything else will follow. And if you start there and then you start to build upon that and think about serving the organization, think about the people and what seats people should be in, it all just starts to stack up and build.

Blake Squires [00:15:15]:
But if you just jump off and and get after what you do, you'll you'll you'll get lost because you're trying to chase something that you're imagining to be true versus starting at a true point of who you are and taking this journey. Great products are always a journey to figure out how to make them great. Startups are are extreme journey. And and in software, obviously, that the iteration process goes quicker than physical products or consumer products, but it's all a journey. So start with with who you are.

Jeffrey Stern [00:15:45]:
Well, and in and in the spirit of that journey, Big Mama Music is probably a a perfect demonstrative example of ultimately, it's it doesn't end as Big Mama Music.

Blake Squires [00:15:57]:
No. It didn't. And it didn't even end as really what we saw as our first business model, which was an Internet radio, company, taking Internet, audio streaming tools to online newspapers, which at the time, the answer's 99, you aggregate all of the, Internet newspapers, the Night Raiders, the Ganets, the Pulitzers. When you aggregated their traffic, they were bigger than Google. That was kind of phase one of the business. I always kid we were so successful in actually deploying our platform and attracting through the platform that we put ourselves out of business because our bandwidth bills at the time were hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars a month. Because the cost of bandwidth was so high, we had this massive listenership on the other side. Our the the truth was our economic model are we had an ad engine, and we're trying to train newspaper salespeople to sell Internet radio versus they were just learning how to sell banner ads at the time.

Blake Squires [00:16:58]:
And and that whole model, we just didn't have enough time to make that work. I always you know, in reflection, EverStream would have been Pandora or even Spotify had we had the time and but Steve and myself and Charlie Lougheed, who joined us as our CTO, recognized wait. I think we had just raised, like, $14,000,000, and we were burning four or 500 a month on bandwidth. We're like, this ain't gonna work. So thing down, and and that's what we did and then pivoted. And, ultimately, the company built software analytics for the cable industry. So big mama music never stream Internet radio to distributed analytics software for cable.

Jeffrey Stern [00:17:39]:
That's an extraordinary journey, to use your word. So if you ground what it is that you're building in something to be true, which is who you are, and then you you have this intuition about what might be true and what you might wanna do about it. What is your course correction process as you, like, close that truth gap between what you think is reality and what actually is reality? And how is it that you you went from this one direction with Big Mama Music to a I mean, really, an entirely it it would have been pretty prophetic for for you guys to have known in advance that that, you know, is where it was gonna go.

Blake Squires [00:18:15]:
It's really staying attuned to what your your thesis, and, hopefully, you have to get to a spot where you have customers. And so being on the road and listening to the market, to know how how does our thesis fit what's happening. Can we actually sell it to somebody? Can we show value and sell it to somebody? And so it's it's taking taking your vision and breaking it down into digestible milestones, goals, and even, you know, thinking about what are the financial drivers around the business long term, but even in the short bites. And then going out and just test, test, test, test, test until you start to see a breakthrough, some traction, some even just positive indicators sometimes, especially when you're early. The other the biggest thing is, finding the right people to join the journey who hopefully are smarter and more experienced or have some set of experience in where you're trying to head. And the people on the bus or those can be advisors or, you know, but just how do you how do you just data collect all around you to test, improve your thesis? And if you see a, you know, danger, danger, danger, then, you know, go back and and don't wait to pull the ripcorder, pivot, or whatever it is. You need to change. You need to adapt.

Jeffrey Stern [00:19:40]:
Do decide what to work on after Everstream. And and I'll I'll ground that in one thing that, to me, is is really interesting about the set of problems that you've chosen to build companies around helping to solve is this diversity of of industries, of approaches. It's been hardware. It's been software. It's been b two b. It's been b two c. When you think about your your compass and kind of orienting around what it is that you were passionate about, how did you approach what problem to solve next?

Blake Squires [00:20:11]:
I didn't I didn't make a decision to do something next from EverStream. I I I took a break. I started consulting. And, again, here we go, the theme of a journey. Right? I was asked to sit in a meeting because I had this experience around Internet radio and e radio, and some of my consulting at the time was around digital radio. And two predominant, Cleveland Investors, Lee Zappas and Tom and Breccia, had asked me to sit in on a pitch that a company, an e radio company, was pitching them on an investment. So I showed up to the meeting and a guy across the table, Christopher Celeste, had never met him before, and they start pitching. And he's he's consulting this e radio company.

Blake Squires [00:20:53]:
They start pitching, and I I just thought the idea was horrible. And I I will every reason why. But the next day, Christopher called me, and he said, hey. Thanks. You no. I'm just kidding. He said, hey. Again, you didn't you didn't see it.

Blake Squires [00:21:07]:
You didn't believe it, and you didn't buy it. I really appreciate how you approach that conversation. I wasn't I wasn't right. I didn't know. I was just asking questions and giving one man's point of view on their business. And he said, oh, do you have time for coffee? And so he and I just started having coffee and, again, back to values, recognized our values are aligned. He had recently moved originally from Cleveland. He had moved up from Columbus to be with his kids, and he was looking, searching for what's next as well.

Blake Squires [00:21:41]:
And he's a he's a a marketer, ran agencies in Columbus. One of the agencies put Victoria's Secret on the web when it shut down, the Internet during the Super Bowl. So, yeah, marketing technology, I was content technology, and we just started thinking of ideas. And and and and, ultimately, that became a business called Adcoda, but it was over the series of events. So if he and I, again, defining what kind of a company do we wanna build, who are we, and then we'll go figure out what we do. And we started to kinda find a beacon and had an idea, and then, again, back to, okay, is this thesis work? How do we test it? And just keep evolve evolve.

Jeffrey Stern [00:22:24]:
Yeah. So who who were you ultimately at at that point? What what was the the vision and the the set of of values that you had?

Blake Squires [00:22:33]:
Oh, who we were? Well, I mean, whatever the words are, the values are at least, all about people being grounded and true to themselves. Always, a swim lane of business will have the highest level of accountability so that it can have the deepest set, the deepest view and and actions around empowerment. So accountability, empowerment, creativity is at the center of of everything. So typically so there's these every company had different words in the actual core values at the end of the day, but they're all pretty much the same in in that context. You know, high growth, challenging, always work to improve yourself and those and the team members around you.

Jeffrey Stern [00:23:17]:
And so what what was the the problem space? What were you focused on?

Blake Squires [00:23:20]:
Yeah. So Oh, well, it wasn't a problem space. I didn't really learn until, much later. But our idea was, this was the iPod was just launching. It was 02/2004. '2 late two three two thousand and four. We are watching how music downloads, were a dollar, and then they are getting commoditized and whole space. And so we envisioned music downloads as a emotional currency.

Blake Squires [00:23:51]:
So our customers, we are getting after retailers, and we've met with Victoria's Secret. And we said, hey. Rather than give away certainly a CD, which they used to do, or flip flops with purchase, give away a card where somebody can unlock music, which you can curate. So it gives some brand affinity to the music that people are getting, or they can go out and download any music. But you're also in that moment engaging that person in a digital interaction. So now you can continue to build a relationship with them as a physical brick and mortar retailer. So that was at Coda, and we're out talking to customers. And, and they were saying to us, we love this download thing, but it's too complex.

Blake Squires [00:24:34]:
It's too early. Can't you just preload content onto a player? And that became the the the spark of the idea. That became the again, not really a problem set. We problems came a little later in this business. Problem sets became a little, clearer in this business later, but, but that ultimately became Findaway. Just that notion of, can you preload content on a player? With that Coda, we were we bootstrapped it. We were, raising capital. We were technically the first company to go through jump start.

Blake Squires [00:25:13]:
Linnea and Greece had it at Case West. And when Ray and actually, Tom and Brusher was on the board, and when they recreated jump start in the version that we know it today back in 02/2004, Adcode was the first company to get funded.

Jeffrey Stern [00:25:29]:
Wow.

Blake Squires [00:25:30]:
They ultimately didn't get that funding in the eleventh hour because of just some board votes and the way they were structured early on. The funding didn't come through. So we we as at COTA had already hired people. We had committed to office space, on the aqueduct near spaces. We were rolling, but then we're out of funding.

Jeffrey Stern [00:25:50]:
In the journey of Big Mama Music to Ever Stream, given that context, what what is the journey then from that kind of dire situation for Ed Coda into into Findaway?

Blake Squires [00:25:59]:
Well, it's the same same with any journey or situation. Figure it out. Get out. Get out, and we weren't just gonna go away or shut things down. It's like, go out and meet 50 more people. Like, we actually, at the same time, we had some press. And I it mentioned Christopher is a fantastic storyteller, and we we pitched the plain dealer. Pepsi had done this huge promotion around putting download codes on bottle caps.

Blake Squires [00:26:28]:
And so we had Adcode had nothing to do with that Pepsi promotion, but we ended up on one page of the business section with Pepsi downloads blah blah blah. And here's this company, Adcode. And and that that article actually found its way to a a a group that did end up investing in us, Lauren and Steve Spillman. Lauren's dad and mom were the founders of Matrix. Amazing Cleveland entrepreneurial story. Lauren and Steve had partnered with Mitch Kroll. Mitch had just recently sold his food distribution company, and they teamed up and said, hey. Let's put our our our capital, our power together, and let's recreate a lot of the entrepreneurial things that were occurring in Matrix.

Blake Squires [00:27:11]:
Let's go find some companies to invest. Well, Mitch and and Steve showed up at a lunch with a mutual friend of mine, Dana Wilkoff, and they said, we need to meet people like this. And Dana was like, that's Blake Squires. Let me just pick up the phone and call them. So, so Dano was the connector then that we Christopher and I met, Steve and Lauren and Mitch. And real quick funny story, they said come to 23 Bell Street. 20 3 Bell Street is in Chagrin Falls above Chuck's beverage. Steve and I, when we started EverStream, our office was 23 Bell Street.

Blake Squires [00:27:47]:
We got kind of pushed out. I won't say thrown out because some couple the building. Lauren and Steve bought the building unbeknownst to me. So you years later when they said come to the office, I'm like, well, this is full service. This is so weird. So long long story short, we, we ended up, they ended up investing, and, we hit the ground running, with Findaway. And that was the really kind of the coming together in late two thousand and four, two

Jeffrey Stern [00:28:15]:
thousand and five with Findaway. That that's an an awesome culmination. And one thing I always take from from from my time with Mitch is that you're not thinking big enough. You know? How do you raise the bar of ambition? And so I'm I'm curious as Mitch kinda came into the fold at that point. What what was the ambition to be raised? And Findaway obviously has its its own incredible journey, and evolution that that it, you know, had over over the time that you were building it. So kinda take us through how it evolved.

Blake Squires [00:28:47]:
So Christopher and I, we still we weren't quite Findaway yet. They made the investment in AdCODA, and we were still kind of in this crux. We were starting to hear about this preloaded. He and I would be out in the road and and come back to the office, and Mitch was in the office. In the early days, they were investing in us. We weren't expecting to expand and build more of this operating partnership. And we'd be kicking the tires with Mitch. We're like, yeah.

Blake Squires [00:29:12]:
Preload and blah blah blah. And so he'd start joining our brain sessions, and it just really kind of evolved to a point where, like, this makes a lot of sense, actually, preloaded audio, and let's go do some work with industrial design firms. And I think Mitch, out of curiosity, was like, let me come with you. And we we first firm we hired was out of Columbus, Big Red Rooster, and I remember those road trips. It was great. And so we were we were just all kinda learning and trying to work with each other and, again, listen to the market. And first, we were anticipating we were planning on preloading the devices with music. Going back to my roots in LA and understanding Yeah.

Blake Squires [00:29:53]:
The content, and we quickly realized two things. One, the economics around music was hard to hard to work on a on a device that was costly at the time. And secondly, we realized music, small files, people want to be able to customize and and you can never really lock enough or do you curate it well enough? And, you know, the digital music and people being able to curate for themselves, that was already out of the the barn. But, and then it was when we we dawned on audiobooks. They were like, oh my god. It was less than a billion dollar market at the time. Now it's 7,000,000,000 plus. The majority of listening was still on cassette tapes.

Blake Squires [00:30:36]:
Box set of Because cassettes actually gave you better functionality than a CD. If you eject a cassette from your car, it remembered where you were. A CD, it doesn't so there were kinda these, like, felt like nuance, but these things that then made audiobooks the right approach. Our first view of the business was it was a consumer product. It was going into retail with audio. And and and so early on, we we flew to New York, and I was leading all of the publisher negotiations. And we'd meet with Harper Collins and Random House, and and we'd show them this player. We'd say, imagine if content could play itself.

Blake Squires [00:31:21]:
And we'd hold up the player. I don't have one here, but and it was a book. The front of it was a book, and then we would tilt it up. On the back would be the technology. And so we said, imagine if your content could play itself. And at the time, these publishers were very concerned with digital rights management and piracy, and we're like, look. Our DRM is plastic. Like, this your content's going nowhere.

Blake Squires [00:31:44]:
It can't offload download. So the publishers were intrigued, but they said, go find a retailer, and maybe we'll license you your content. So, you know, back to the drawing board, back to Chagrin Falls, the three of us went, and we're like, alright. How are we gonna get to a retailer? Well, Christopher, I had recalled Larry Pollock, was on the board of Borders. Larry Cleefunder was on the board of Borders. Younger listeners may not know what I'm talking about.

Jeffrey Stern [00:32:12]:
I went to Barnes and Noble back in the day. Okay.

Blake Squires [00:32:15]:
Well, yep. Barnes and Noble, and but Borders was a competitor of Barnes and Noble, and Larry Pollock got us a meeting with the CEO, Greg Josefowicz, of Borders. And so we went up to Michigan, imagine if content could play itself. I love it. I'm in. Okay. Great. Back to the publishers.

Blake Squires [00:32:30]:
Give us your content. And then it was just an all out sprint to get this product ready to hit the retail shelves.

Jeffrey Stern [00:32:38]:
Had you built a a product before?

Blake Squires [00:32:41]:
No. No. No. Never built a product, and we had nine months. And at the time, even the best consumer product companies, it would take them eighteen months to build a product. And so we knew we were we had had a total disadvantage, so we hired IDEO. The world you know, they built the Microsoft mouse, the world's most predominant product design firm, and that's a whole story into itself. Right? How we got ourselves in there and

Jeffrey Stern [00:33:09]:
how do

Blake Squires [00:33:09]:
you easily get the attention of IDO, and IDO typically charges millions and millions of dollars. But we we were storytelling. Imagine if contemplate itself and look at all of the applications, and they wanted to get involved, and they did. They helped us finalize the design. They did a lot of consumer research and in home observation of how people listen to audiobooks. And then we hired them to help us through the manufacturing, and we went after a tier one manufacturer, another clean connection. We went and met with every manufacturer, Fox, J. Bill, Sanmina, and the head of sales of Sanmina is a Cleveland guy.

Blake Squires [00:33:49]:
And so we were able to get Sanmina with IDO to help us because here we were, three guys above a liquor store. Our name of our company is Findaway. Right? We're out in San Jose doing pre, and then we end up in Mexico in the the manufacturing facility and problems and fires just like my days back at concerts. Right? I felt like, alright. Where's, where's Paul McCartney here? Because something's gonna is gonna break. And it it broke time, and, and we said, hey. Just find a way. We gotta get this product out.

Blake Squires [00:34:25]:
We've gotta get it to orders within nine months. Figure it out. Figure it out.

Jeffrey Stern [00:34:30]:
What is the importance of storytelling? You mentioned storytelling a few times. I'm just curious, Detour, like, how would you articulate what it is and why it's so important?

Blake Squires [00:34:39]:
Well, it's it's it's it's communication. We're creating things. Yeah. And we're creating things out of nothing. So how do you take something of that's nothing, put enough of a framework around it, and explain it to others to not just get a reaction, but to evoke an emotion? How do you get a customer to really buy in and and love your brand and continue to buy your products? How do you convey to an investor what you're doing and why you can get this done and, you know, all of those elements? And at the end of the day, that that's storytelling. How can you simply convey what you're trying to express, to get something done, to share to share something, to learn something. So, yeah, creativity is at the center and storytelling is is part of the part of the, the the mojo.

Jeffrey Stern [00:35:32]:
Yeah. Yeah. So you tell a sufficiently compelling and creative story to IDEO. You know, you you you work through the plan, and, how how does it go?

Blake Squires [00:35:42]:
Failed miserably. So we put dollars of product in Borders. We had Barnes and Noble. We had, Hudson News. We had Brookstone and Airports. I mean, we were nationwide, we launched this product. Failed miserably. Nobody understood what it was.

Blake Squires [00:35:59]:
So then what do we do? We go back to the drawing board, and we're like, okay. We need better point of purchase system. So we quickly fired up the firm to go build us a point of sale, and then we would go drive around all the stores and actually put it in. And we were trying to do everything, but the process really wasn't meant for retail. And so we we were struggling hard, and one of our early hires was, Mike Belsito. Yep. Mike had just graduated, from Case, and we met him and just saw the fire in his belly. We just knew and, you know, Mike.

Blake Squires [00:36:32]:
He's a brilliant, brilliant, a likable guy. And so we said, hey. Come join us. We don't we don't know what you're gonna do, but just come out and join us. So we were trying to figure out retail, and Mike kept like, he was answering the phone. Right? And he'd like, you guys, these libraries keep calling me. Like, hey. Hey, Mike.

Blake Squires [00:36:49]:
Go. Go. Hey, Mike. Yeah. Whatever. And, ultimately, he's like, no. Seriously, these libraries and we set back, we're like, that's where this product comes. Instead of retail, this is a circulation item.

Blake Squires [00:37:03]:
The box set of these becomes even harder. Libraries pay more for products, so the economics are better. And so we very quickly pivoted from retail into institutions and libraries, which changed our manufacturing. We've moved from Mexico to China where we're just built blank units instead of finished goods out of Mexico. We built out the full facility that's still in solid for loading labeling. Mike figured out all the packaging and, you know, we all had our goals and our jobs to say, hey. How quick can we get into libraries? And my biggest job at the time, libraries wanted tens and tens and thousands of titles, not the 10 title, Narnia DaVinci code that we have retail. They wanted tens of thousands, and they wanted to order one of these two of those.

Blake Squires [00:37:52]:
So I had to go license just nonstop licensed content to build up our catalog. And that's then why by 02/2007 so we we pivoted in about a year, out into libraries. And by 02/2007, '2 thousand and '8, we were a profitable business just as a rocket ship. And back to storytelling, we would show up at these trade shows, like, orange jumper suits on and having fun, and everybody is, you know, in these book book conferences, and people are like, who are these guys? Playaway. Findaway. What is this? So we were storytelling, and we were able to just hit the market so fast and hard. Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:38:33]:
What was scaling like? What did that feel like? What was new about that that you you hadn't experienced before, or maybe you did? But what new things did you pick up on as part of that process?

Blake Squires [00:38:44]:
Yeah. We were scaling against the the business performance. We were being very careful not to get too ahead of ourselves. At times, we had looked on looked at bringing on significant, capital. We stayed nimble with capital, and so we were scaling as the business was growing. And other than, like, with Everstream, we raised our capital. We had to scale fast before we knew it if our business model was going to work. And then when we pivoted, we had to rip.

Blake Squires [00:39:13]:
But here, it was just this this constant just grow, grow, grow, but under a controlled and profitable base. And and, again, thankfully, we did a great job with the values. People would come in into Solon and walk through the doors and say, I feel like I just transported to Google. Biggest catalyst to growth is the talent we were able to attract. We actually came up with a a strategy where we would go after people who had moved away, born and raised and moved away, late twenties, early thirties, start thinking about families, and we're thinking about moving back to Cleveland. So those are the opportunities for us to say, why don't you come back to Cleveland and work for Findaway? And we recruited Robert Hata was was working in London, for iTunes. Caroline Barney was running ftd.com in Chicago. So we're able to bring this incredible talent.

Blake Squires [00:40:07]:
So the building of the company wasn't just the founders. We're able to build this culture, empower people, and the whole company was building at the same time because we had the right people in it.

Jeffrey Stern [00:40:19]:
Yep. I love the Cleveland Boomerang strategy. That's a that's a good one. Other people should should do more of that.

Blake Squires [00:40:25]:
Yes. Indeed.

Jeffrey Stern [00:40:27]:
That's a powerful network. What did you learn about about team building and and talent and management and recruiting? I'm sure, you know, the storytelling element just ties back into it. But how how are you able to to convince people? Much much like you did with IDEO.

Blake Squires [00:40:42]:
I'll come back to culture. Right? We we just really you walk through the door and you felt it. We've made sure that we, you know, always hired entrepreneurs. Right? Does this person have fire in their belly? Are they self starter? They could be young and inexperienced. That's fine as so long as they have the DNA. If you hire other entrepreneurs, you just kinda create, and it just feeds and feeds it feeds upon itself. And that's that's what we did. Now, obviously, we had a vision for the business.

Blake Squires [00:41:10]:
We were very mindful of how we were building and crafting our plans and managing of those plans and communicating those plans. And but at the end of the day, once the vision was set and the plans were understood, it's just provide the tools and get the hell out of the way. And and that's what we did. And that is, you know, really at the end of the day, you know, you'd you'd ask me, like, how do I keep doing this company after company? And that's the formula I learned. Right? Define who you who you are, not what you do. Make that authentic. Make sure it's true. Align your business with the right people that can really fire in the belly and could become a part of this and feel like they own it, set the vision, create the framework of measurement of that thesis going out and testing, and know when you're right or when you're wrong by the data.

Blake Squires [00:42:01]:
So that's the business. And then just incrementally go and and get the get out of the way as a leader.

Jeffrey Stern [00:42:06]:
It's a it's an awesome framework. It's simple, and it just makes a lot of sense. I I mean, it's pretty remarkable. Again, we you know, we're not we're, like, halfway through the the journey here. How did that framework evolve over time? Like, when did you first articulate that framework?

Blake Squires [00:42:19]:
So after Findaway, my wife had an idea for a company called Moveable. We started, and I was a I was a lone CEO, which I'll never do again. Every other I've had a partner or more. And and it was really in that business that now I'm alone. Before I had partners, and in a lot of ways, they were instilling it, and I was learning it. Certainly, Steve was at EverStream. And I was watching Christopher, and as Mitch came in, who had more experience than me and just kind of watching. But then Movable is really the first one that I said, okay.

Blake Squires [00:42:51]:
I got I understand this formula, implemented it. And then later, post Movable and still do today, I coached the the framework through entity called Hatch and really try to align with entrepreneurs and help them in their businesses and their growth. And, so it's it's been proven not just in my own companies, but coaching dozens of of different entrepreneurs, throughout the years.

Jeffrey Stern [00:43:18]:
Yeah. What what was Movable, and why would you not wanna be a solo CEO again?

Blake Squires [00:43:24]:
Movable was 02/2011. There was this movement around wearables. There's a device called a Fitbit, which everybody knows. At the time, it was a clip. So we built literally one of the first risk warrant activity monitors. The only other one on the market at the time was Nike. Nike had one, and so we built a very inexpensive risk for activity monitor or wearable, and then we built a whole online system to get groups of people moving. So wellness point system, we go into schools, corporate, it was b two b.

Blake Squires [00:43:58]:
And why I would never do a lone CEO again is it it it sucked. It was the company Jawbone and these other companies started coming out, and I don't wanna make an excuse around raising capital, but raising capital was almost impossible in a company that needed a lot of capital, to succeed. And as a solo CEO, I really wrapped my whole identity and my brand around this company versus it being a company and a thing. And and and so, ultimately, I, had to step out. I was just, not in a good place, and it doesn't help when it's your wife's company or idea either. It's like, alright. I gotta prove this out. Make it work.

Blake Squires [00:44:38]:
Gotta make it work. I gotta make it work. But, thankfully, like, Mike Belsito stepped in and helped out, get the business. The business ended up merging, with another company. So it saw another day, but that was movable.

Jeffrey Stern [00:44:52]:
Yeah. What chapters came next?

Blake Squires [00:44:55]:
So we're about 2016, and like I said, I had a hard time with movable, so I consciously said I'm taking a long break, which I never done before. Right? So from EverStream right to AdCODA, to Findaway, to movable. And so I took I took a break. Of course, I started observing things. I was observing that people were walking around with a 05:00 shadow or stubble. Built a little product called stubble. Ended up partnering with the inventor of the spin brush, John Osher. We started that journey in 2016.

Blake Squires [00:45:28]:
'6 years and six patents later, we ended up selling that in 2021 to Edgewell, which is now part of their ship product line. It's a manual device to gain and wear the the five o'clock shadow. That was like a product, and that took a a while. And and in 2016, I was also thinking about the home health care market. So I was working on a health hub. That health hub, I had a meeting with Cardinal Health, and I was pitching them and storytelling. And, you know, you're at home, and you have all of these devices. And somebody in the room put a piece of paper down and said, if you can solve these scripts that come through faxes, we'll buy something from you.

Blake Squires [00:46:10]:
Well, went away. The entrepreneur, you know, saw the true need. Right? You asked about Indeed earlier. Saw the true need, put some teams together, and built a product called doctor's orders And within two years, Cardinal Health ended up acquiring. So that was that was a a piece of of what was next. And, I also in kinda stuck in health care after that, after the Cardinal Health experience and, built a a platform called Generator Works where, aligned with some clinicians. A local guy, Joel Tompkins, who's a nurse and mess messesist, really a management and an entrepreneur management guy and entrepreneur. And we had this thesis where we could start a bunch of companies in the consumerism for health care space.

Blake Squires [00:46:55]:
We did. We bought a company in the patient checkout space, and then COVID hit and sold off the patient check-in system, wound everything else down, and so that was that was the the generator works, time.

Jeffrey Stern [00:47:08]:
Yep. So to kinda pull back on a a thread that we introduced earlier, which was more in anticipation of things that you would build going forward, like how you followed your curiosity to cross this this diversity of hardware, software industries, b to c, b to a. When you reflect on on that diversity of things that you've built, what have you found to be the kind of universal truisms, like, the the things that really apply across the board just for entrepreneurship ship writ large? And what do you feel is really industry specific, product specific, business model specific?

Blake Squires [00:47:50]:
So everything that I do is product centered. Doubles a consumer product. Playaway was a physical hardware device, you know, Everstream software, doctor's orders, yet again, another software product. So everything is product. Everything was started from an idea, from a napkin, and everything followed that framework. One element of the framework that we didn't talk a lot about, but relates to storytelling, is the brand. So even your b to b, you still need to behave like a b to c company from a branding standpoint because that lets you tell the story. So the industry really doesn't doesn't matter.

Blake Squires [00:48:29]:
Right? You can align with people. You can hire experts that know. I mean, there's plenty of analyst reports you can buy too to really understand the industry. I actually think stepping out or coming in from the outside to an industry is helpful to disrupt it because you see things that people who are inside of it may not see. And then when you show up, there's a level of excitement. Like, wait. Where did this come from? It's like, play away in the the library conferences. Right? Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:48:57]:
How do you think about what brand even is?

Blake Squires [00:49:01]:
So going back to the who you are, it should be an expression of what it is you're engaging with, product service, and who who and what you're you're transacting with and or you're trusting. That to me is brand and ability to convey what what all of that is to to get somebody to engage, to buy, to that's that's a good brand.

Jeffrey Stern [00:49:24]:
Yep. Well, and you mentioned maybe the the value of observing from the outside and just kinda that maybe orthogonal point of view to to people who are kind of more entrenched in it. I know you've spent a fair amount of time outside of your work building things, helping other people to build things, whether that's in advisory roles or literally on boards themselves. I am curious what what you've picked up from that kind of experience helping other people build their products when you are not building the product yourself that keep that that, you know, entrepreneurs might miss and that you've taken with you as valuable insight?

Blake Squires [00:50:03]:
Yeah. So it so in those roles and as an adviser or board member, do you have the benefit of being able to step away? You're not at the center of it. So that's kinda one piece in advantage so that you you have that ability to look from the outside because you can only know so much if you're not living in the middle of it, but that's a benefit. I think somewhat related to that, companies early on and even through movable I mean, I guess the whole thing. Right? It's the journey. Being naive is is actually a very powerful thing because you keep trying to quest the thirst for curiosity, and you keep learning and you keep leading in. It may take you longer, but you really get to the essence of of what things are. And I think being on a board or or being an adviser, I can be on the outside, but I can also almost strip away the being the being naive, at least for myself as I'm looking at whatever I'm there to do to help.

Blake Squires [00:51:07]:
It's more about how can you help somebody ask the right questions? How can you help somebody have the tools to problem solve instead of needing to do solve the problem yourself in that moment? And, you know, back to that framework, if you for me, applying that framework and elements of it, helping others to really see their path to whatever it is they're working on and then continue to help them to ensure that they have the tools and the guidance, to get there without, again, needing to be at the center of it, without really need needing to be a naive mind in that mix. And Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:51:48]:
No. That's it makes a lot of sense. How would you you round out the, the subsequent chapters?

Blake Squires [00:51:54]:
Fortunate that, for a long period of time, a v VC that I had just always admired, they tried to invest and find a way, back 02/2004. And one of the founders went to school where my kids go to school, Revere. So in Ohio, and, he was born and raised here in Bath, Ian Sigelow. And, about a year ago, I took a position as a board partner. The firm is called Greycroft, coast to coast VC firm. And so they bring me into companies that that could use some support and some help. And so my my vision of where I was headed was to do more of the board coaching work. And so excited to kinda step in and start off with this prominent firm in doing that as things happen.

Blake Squires [00:52:42]:
Happened to reconnect with a great person who is now becoming a partner. And for the last year, I've been working on an opportunity to step back into, an operating role, which brings me back into media and, the areas where I really started my career and my passion mostly lied. Unfortunately, I can't announce it yet, but, hopefully, we will soon. And when we do, lay the land, we'll be one of the first to know. But buying a company from a major enterprise to bring back here to Cleveland, Ohio to continue its growth, its, profitable business. And so my next chapter is continuing to juggle a lot. Still working with Greycroft and some coaching, but really being focused on on building, continuing to build this this company. So I look forward to telling you about it.

Jeffrey Stern [00:53:34]:
Yeah. I look forward to learning more about it. I'm curious maybe just as a framing in anticipation of that. I mean, ultimately, at this point across Everstream, find a way, movable, doctor's orders, stubble, bloom filter, which is a chapter, you know, we didn't even in touch so much upon. For you to dive back into it, yeah, I imagine at this point in your career, you could work on basically anything that that you would want. And what feels sufficiently compelling? Of all the things that you could choose to work on at this point, why why is this the right thing?

Blake Squires [00:54:07]:
Yeah. I had mentioned, a partner in the mix, and this person and I reconnected. And, again, somebody to do something with that shares values that that seem excitement, like, let's go run through walls and and then the kind of the the full circle nature of getting back into media, and it just it just sounded, exhilarating and thrilling. And, like a journey, didn't know that, we would end up with this deal. Right? We had to it took it's taken a year. I had to go through a process RFP, had to, you know, invest in attorneys and get after it. And so as it unfolded, it became more and more exciting. But, really, it's, again, working with starting with a partner, but now we're bringing other people into the company even now, and we got to sit down and write our values down.

Blake Squires [00:54:58]:
Even though it's a profitable business, we're we're creating. We're we're building something new, and and that's exciting.

Jeffrey Stern [00:55:07]:
Yep. Well, one one thing just as we've gone through this here is that maybe more than anyone else that I've had on the the podcast so far, I feel like your journey is emblematic of a lay of the land. I mean, I I kept a list here. I have Lee Zappas, Steve McHale, Mitch Kroll, Charlie Loheed, Ray Leach, Mike Belsito, Robert Hadda. I mean, this this is a lay of the land. And so I would be remiss if I didn't ask for your perspective on Cleveland entrepreneurship and how it's evolved and where you feel we are today and where you would like for us to go.

Blake Squires [00:55:43]:
Yeah. Well, we're we're blessed. We're blessed in that every one of those names, I didn't know any of those people. But I was able to pick up a phone and have a conversation, and there's obviously hundreds more on that list that, in that respect, we as entrepreneurs are creating something. We're builders. We are and that takes a village, and we have that here in Cleveland. We have that, willingness to have a conversation to help. And and I think that is only getting stronger, that that notion of a village.

Blake Squires [00:56:23]:
What you and Ray and Mark are doing with the Ohio Fund and, you know, from a what Jumpstart has done over the years, we are starting to see some examples of the awesomeness that's happening around. And and so, like, back to storytelling. Right? If you can see something tangibly, then more and more of those could become real. And and that's happening in Cleveland, Ohio.

Jeffrey Stern [00:56:47]:
Yeah. It is. It is pretty exciting.

Blake Squires [00:56:50]:
And you're the catalyst of that too, even the show. And, again, how do you create awareness around what's happening and, and not just everything be dispersed? And, so thank you for for for playing a part in in all of it.

Jeffrey Stern [00:57:06]:
Well, thank you. I I certainly appreciate that. And, yeah, it brings me great joy to to do what I can to to help as well. What does success mean to you? How do you think about about what that is? And, you know, from the outside, I I feel like I could say that maybe you've achieved success. But how how do you think about what it is, and what ultimately is the impact that that you would like to to have?

Blake Squires [00:57:28]:
Well, I I have four kids and an amazing wife and healthy, happy, adjusted, curious family is is first and foremost to success, and so far so good checking that box. But for for me, success is it's not a destination. Kinda back to the the journey of entrepreneurship. Are you waking up in the morning? Are you passionate about what you're doing? Are you able to stretch whatever you want to stretch? Like, I'm a very curious person. So curiosity and just being able to get in and learn things is important to me. So I get to do that every day. So that that to me is is the epitome of Yep.

Jeffrey Stern [00:58:12]:
That that rings true. In this contrast between who you are and what you do, how do you feel that who you are has changed? If if that's the the the one more grounded in fact and and truth. But, obviously, you've learned a lot. You've you've done a lot. How do you feel the the who you are part of that has changed as you've changed what it is that you do?

Blake Squires [00:58:34]:
I'm I'm still the the kid that's not risk adverse at all. Part of this too. Right? We didn't even get into that, but night being naive and and and where's your your threshold and your tolerance for risk? But, no. I'm you know, how I've changed over time is, I feel like my parents instilled great values in me. You're as good as your name. Be trustworthy. You know, the core of who I am has not changed, but I've sharpened my skills. I thankfully met more people who have taught me more than I could ever imagine learning.

Blake Squires [00:59:09]:
So that's just part of doing this and loving being entrepreneur and building companies and and loving it. Jeffrey, I'm gonna go back to the journey thing. Right? I'm evolving every day. But at the core, I I am who I am, and I'm sharpening my skills, and I'm learning more from others.

Jeffrey Stern [00:59:25]:
What have been the the biggest lessons learned? What what what are the ones that feel the most earned, or maybe that comes from the most painful parts? Or what what comes to mind when you think about the earned wisdom?

Blake Squires [00:59:39]:
Yeah. Well, I had mentioned Movable. I wrapped myself around that company, and I learned a big lesson that failure is absolutely and I've had plenty of failures too. There's other companies inside of you know, people are always like, well, how how are you hitting every one of these? Well, I don't, and I haven't. Just so happens, I've done a lot of them. But, you know, and failure is a is a very, very important thing. And at that time, I was I was fearful of of failing.

Jeffrey Stern [01:00:04]:
Yeah.

Blake Squires [01:00:05]:
So I I recognized that failure is a is a is a great, great thing. And this was ten years ago. But that was a that was a big lesson and a piece of wisdom.

Jeffrey Stern [01:00:15]:
Yeah. Well, and it certainly I mean, to me, that that's kinda beautifully illustrated by the separating of who you are and what you do, and that if you've wrapped your identity as what you do and it fails, that's a tough that's a tough place to to be. It's

Blake Squires [01:00:30]:
yeah. It was it was not a not a good place, but,

Jeffrey Stern [01:00:33]:
Yeah. What what what else comes to mind?

Blake Squires [01:00:37]:
Wisdom over the years. Just enjoy it. It's it's a ride. Right? It's every day, there's hard there's frustrations. There's just, again, I I hate to be a broken record, but going back to this journey. Just and and remember, as an entrepreneur, you disease for me, I can't escape it. Right. I don't think you use it, but you can choose to do other things.

Blake Squires [01:01:03]:
You can choose to go take that job. You can decide or choose not to create the thing or or bring the idea to life that you're you're contemplating. You can you you have those decisions. You have that independence to be able to take that idea forward, to be able to say no to those things. And so I'm just I'm proud that I stuck with it back in the day when I was doing concerts and then evolved and met some great mentors and built some great partnerships, and and it evolved. And I'm I'm glad I I continued that. The the one job that I was referencing was early in my career. I was at a point where I'm like, I am moving between all of these industries, and I didn't really understand this notion of being an entrepreneur.

Blake Squires [01:01:49]:
Like, that's what he's doing. And, you know, I was married with with my wife, Michelle, and I'm like, what are we gonna do? What are we gonna do? And and I was like, okay. What industry do I wanna work in? What companies do I wanna work for? And I woke up one morning and I'm like, what am I doing? I can't I can't have a job. I'm an entrepreneur. Right. So I need to get out there and observe a little more. I need to go meet 10 more people. I don't have an idea.

Blake Squires [01:02:17]:
Maybe somebody else does that I can help. Maybe I something will spark, and something sparked, you know, and usually does.

Jeffrey Stern [01:02:23]:
Do you feel you've become better at discerning whether or not your ideas are good before you test them or build

Blake Squires [01:02:32]:
something? Yes. And that is get out as soon as you can and get those data points, I think, early on. Not that there was ever a need for perfection to validate the idea. It was perfection to get it right and to to get it out, but I think it was more internal, like, this needs to be better to take it out versus getting out and iterating around it.

Jeffrey Stern [01:02:54]:
And in advance of having the data, do you feel your intuition about whether or not the data will feed the narrative? Has that changed? Like, your your judgment, I I guess, is the word.

Blake Squires [01:03:08]:
I think it's I think it's sharpened. I think my I again, going back to who I am, I trust my gut. I have a good gut, and I think it's sharpened over time. It yeah. I'm usually right. I'm usually I'm usually pretty close. And and, again and that includes throwing out a hundred ideas to one. Right?

Jeffrey Stern [01:03:30]:
Yeah. So I think we can, just work to to book in the conversation here, plant a seed for what comes next, which we'll revisit hopefully soon, and, unpack, I think, a lot more of your thoughts, which I could endlessly ask you about as it comes to the frameworks and mentality and tactics, which we didn't even get to yet.

Blake Squires [01:03:52]:
I think we covered a lot for them. I think we hit you know? But

Jeffrey Stern [01:03:55]:
We absolutely covered a lot. I I just remember you at one point had sent me really this kind of deck that outlines the whole framework, and we I know we've only touched on parts of it, and and all these different components are really fascinating. But maybe as we get to what you're working on next, we can use that as a as a reference point to, you know, kinda round out the the whole framework because I I think it's, for one, just very interesting, but also, I think, pretty powerful. With that, I'll I'll ask you a a traditional closing question for for Hidden Gem in Cleveland, something other folks may not know about, but perhaps they should in the area.

Blake Squires [01:04:30]:
So, live south a bit here in in Bath, and, thankfully, mile radius, there's a bunch of great restaurants. One of my favorites, though, is a place called Vaqueros, homemade pasta like you you've never had. So that's, like, hidden gems I've I've big fan of your show, and people typically talk about food. So there's that one. But the biggest gem of Cleveland is north of here called Lake Erie. A big boater, maybe a little more Northwest than Northeast Ohio, but everywhere from Sandusky to Marblehead to Catawba to the islands. If anybody's listening and you've never been on a ferry, which goes out of any one of those ports and head headed to an island, I strongly encourage it to get up there this summer and take a day trip, spend a night. But Lake Erie, it's not really hidden gem.

Blake Squires [01:05:21]:
It's yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [01:05:23]:
Yeah. An underappreciated one, maybe. Yeah. Well, Blake, I just wanted to thank you for coming on, sharing a bit of your story. I'm excited to, to work through the the next chapter as it transpires, but, yeah, really really enjoyed this.

Blake Squires [01:05:38]:
I have too, Jeffrey. I really appreciate it. Thank you.

Jeffrey Stern [01:05:40]:
If folks had anything they wanted to follow-up with you about, where would, where would you point them or to learn more or, you know, just your your location on the interwebs?

Blake Squires [01:05:51]:
Yep. LinkedIn. I'm there. My email, I think, is on there as well, blake.squires@gmail.com.

Jeffrey Stern [01:05:58]:
Perfect. Well, thank you again, Blake. Thank you. That's all for this week. Thank you for listening. We'd love to hear your thoughts on today's show. So if you have any feedback, please send over an email to jeffrey@layoftheland.fm or find us on Twitter at pod lay of the land or at stern f a, j e f e. If you or someone you know would make a good guest for our show, please reach out as well and let us know.

Jeffrey Stern [01:06:24]:
And if you enjoy the podcast, please subscribe and leave a review on iTunes or on your preferred podcast player. Your support goes a long way to help us spread the word and continue to bring the Cleveland Founders and builders we love having on the show. We'll be back here next week at the same time to map more of the land. The Lay of the Land podcast was developed in collaboration with the UP Company LLC. At the time of this recording, unless otherwise indicated, we do not own equity or other financial interests in the company which appear on the show. All opinions expressed by podcast participants are solely their own and do not reflect the opinions of any entity which employs us. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a basis for investment decisions. Thank you for listening, and we'll talk to you next week.