#29: Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA)

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:00:00]:
We're going to control what we can control, and we're going to evaluate the market, and we're going to understand what the rules of the game are as best we can. We're gonna try to understand our audience and try to find our niche and get ourselves as smart as we can. And the idea of fretting over what one of the 2 big dogs are doing and what product they may be releasing and and whatever that may be is very akin to, like, they just brought in another guy who is just playing at a higher level and is playing my same position. It's just like, what am I going to do about it right now? It's just like we we talk about this. Like, I'm going to throw his stuff in the shower, and I'm going to, like, like, like, break his skates or something? It's like, no. It was just like, I'm going to go out there and do what I can do and control what I can control. And work like health for that space of what I can control, that's kinda how we view, like, a lot of the, like, happenings in our space. Big guys, small guys, whatever it may be.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:00:53]:
And even conversely, it's just like, alright, what can we use from what they're doing to learn and be better?

Jeffrey Stern [00:01:00]:
Let's discover the Cleveland entrepreneurial ecosystem. We are telling the stories of its entrepreneurs and those supporting them. Welcome to the lay of the land podcast, where we are exploring what people are building in Cleveland. I'm your host, Jeffrey Stern. And today, we are talking with Jared and Brandon Smith, who more commonly are known around these parts as the Numa Bros. And the Numa journey for them began back as hockey playing brothers who couldn't quite stand the sugar packed artificial sports drinks that we have become accustomed to in the world of fitness. And so they founded Numa with a mission to combine the science of sports nutrition with high quality functional ingredients, organic, plant based, and real without any added sugar to make products that actually taste great and ultimately work. My favorite conversations have been those that explore the companies that work towards this goal of a triple bottom line, doing good and doing well at the same time.

Jeffrey Stern [00:02:05]:
And Pneuma is no exception here, as a certified B Corp helping empower people to be the best and healthiest versions of themselves. Jared and Brandon really embody the spirit and values of Numa, and it was an absolute pleasure to hear their story. So, pour yourself some NUMA, do something active, and take a listen. So this is actually my my first podcast with 2 guests. And whenever I listen to podcast with 2 guests, I've always been frustrated when I can't tie the names to the voices of the people who are speaking. So I'd love to just start this on like a logistics note, and shore that up for the for the benefit of everyone tuning in. So if you could both just please introduce yourselves, I think that would be the best place to start.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:02:56]:
Sure. This is Brandon Smith, one of the new bros, but Jeff, gotta be honest. I feel like we're most people just kind of view us as one person. And we're just kind of collectively known as the bros. So if it if it kind of bleeds together, that's that's kind of just real life. So, it'll be fine.

Jeffrey Stern [00:03:16]:
We'll let it we'll let it blend.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:03:18]:
I'm Jared, Brandon's younger brother. Not sure if this introduction is gonna help you in a couple of minutes from now, but, yeah. If there's any jokes or anything funny, it's coming from me. You're starting to veer off course. It's probably Brandon. So we'll leave it at that.

Jeffrey Stern [00:03:33]:
We'll keep we'll keep that in

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:03:34]:
mind. Yeah. Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:03:37]:
Awesome. So I I appreciate that. So to set the stage, I'd love to kind of start exploring before we we kind of segue into Nooma with your athletic backgrounds and the professional pursuits that you had there. I'd love if you could just share a bit about what that was like and how, you know, in in kind of the the formative years building up to to Numa, what that experience was was

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:04:01]:
all about. Sure. Brandon speaking. For, we grew up in a sports house. And just we were from the time we were, you know, hockey specifically got our first like skating lessons when we were 3 or 4 years old. But we're just the kids who played on baseball, soccer, football, wrestling. We were, that was just our family and we were kind of whatever it was, we were up to play it and trying our best. And then, I feel like at our house, there were the backyard baseball and hockey in the basement where it was super competitive and people were coming over.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:04:39]:
And that was just the DNA of who we were from a very, very young age.

Jeffrey Stern [00:04:44]:
And we're fortunate enough that we're able to play collegiately and then through, you know, semi professional levels. And

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:04:53]:
I guess I feel like it was always just, so we're trying to get to the next level. Like when you're in, you know, a teenager, I wanna make

Jeffrey Stern [00:05:00]:
the high school team. My high school team, I wanna go play college. I wanna

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:05:02]:
go to college, I wanna go play pro. And it was just a very carrot and stick next level. I feel like I'm just trying to get to the next level of sports. And that was just a big part of who we were. And did it, you know, I guess the other part that is obviously very important, we did have parents that that really set awesome examples of just who they were as people and their values, but also pushed us really hard to to do all in the classroom. So if I but I already used the analogy, but it was just like the rewards of of, you know, doing homework or behaving are always more opportunities to play sports. And I think that was really who we were for a while.

Jeffrey Stern [00:05:48]:
And you kept, you kept getting that carrot at the end of the stick.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:05:51]:
Yeah. We, yeah, we, we, we did for a long way. And in terms of our our level of hockey made it to what was, you know, most people understand that the baseball minor league system, so we got to double a. So, you

Jeffrey Stern [00:06:06]:
know, there was there was

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:06:07]:
a level between us and there was the NHL. So we we made it we made it pretty far. We weren't all the way. Had a lot of a lot of buddies that we, you know, played with over the, over the years that, that did get there. And I feel like to anyone who would watch, it's, you know, really not perceptively different, but, there was definitely, definitely a difference in that, as was winding down for both of us, kind of laid the, played the tracks for the MO.

Jeffrey Stern [00:06:31]:
Got it. And and were how did you kinda balance when you ultimately decided to to start Numa the kind of pro athletic aspirations you had with, you know, these these entrepreneurial aspirations? Was building a company something you had a desire to do or was you know, what was the process there?

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:06:49]:
Yeah. You know, so this is Jared here. And, you know, the Numa story, especially as it started, was definitely intertwined with that athletic background that Brandon just talked about. And so the idea for NUMA started while I was actually still in college, and so actively playing and Brandon was playing in the minors at the time. And it wasn't necessarily something that was a total eureka moment, we have to start this drop what you're doing kind of thing. And so, kind of to, actually, to back up a little bit. So when we got to college, just as young guys, teenagers, whatever, you know, we're we're obviously excited to to kind of hit that milestone and and hit that goal. But one of the things that we're really excited about was, like, getting free stuff.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:07:41]:
And so, you know, free equipment, we've been paying for skates forever, whatever. These things cost $1,000, and we get them for free now, and this is all great. And part of that, though, was free sports drinks. And for me, as I started using them, like, a lot more than I ever had in the past, I started getting realizing I was getting, like, acid reflux from them. It wasn't really sitting well. I was getting, like, a burning in my throat and all this kind of stuff that I realized, like, I kinda wanna take this out of my regimen and my routine. And so fast forward to going into my senior year in terms of, you know, really kind of getting into that, like, did we think we were going to start this? Like, I honestly thought I was going to go work on Wall Street, going back to where you're from. And, you know, I had an internship there in, you know, private banking.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:08:27]:
Brandon was about to be taking the GMATs as he were kind of just both thinking, you know, what's going to be happening next? Got home from New York, took me a little bit, but very much realized that wasn't for me and that I didn't like what I was doing at all. And then had a kind of ironically in entrepreneurship class my freshman year or my freshman year, my 1st semester of my senior year taught by a guy from Shaker Heights. So I was out in Providence where, my school was in Providence, but the teacher was from Shaker, and I loved the class and really got me excited about just entrepreneurship in general. Didn't necessarily, like, think like I have to start a company. And then the idea for Nooma happened like 2 weeks after that class finished, or at least that idea kind of came up. And it was between our business partner, Chris, who's kind of, you know, chairman of the board type, and and the 3 of us so it was the 3 of us to start, and the idea was, can you make a non acidic pH balanced kind of alkaline sports drink? And so for me, it was almost like so then at this point, I'm heading in 2nd semester senior year of college. I was had the foresight enough to to to do enough work to have a really light load so I could, you know, enjoy that last semester. But it also allowed me that kind of the time and the bandwidth to almost just add another course into my life that was, like, new month.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:09:50]:
And it almost was just like a taking this class again instead of, like, faking making a company. I was just like, alright. We're just gonna kinda work on this thing on the side. And and I I knew Brandon, you know, minor league hockey life is, you know, you're done with practice by 11 AM, and everyone else is playing video games. I was like, I know you're not doing anything. Let's just start working on this. And it was just like, well, what's the point? Like, what's the point of it? What do we do? It's like, I don't know. This is just something that, like, seems fun for us to put our minds towards.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:10:21]:
And, like, yeah, Brandon, like, as, you know, I try and I tell the story all the time, but it's just like, I don't think we really even, like, were like, alright. It's time to make this a company when I kind of, you know, buzz you on the phone about, like, what we were working on in the early days.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:10:35]:
For me, I I remember too, like, studying studying for the GMAT sucked. You know, and it's just, like, me he's, like, really just and sorry for anyone who's going through that right now. But it's just like, it's just like super it's just you're reading super dry testing books, and it just reminded me of taking the SATs and all of it. And it was it was painful. And, you know, I'm definitely not, in terms of who I am as an entrepreneur, I would say we're probably not the, like, the guys who are just gonna, like, put everything together in some perfect Excel spreadsheet that is, like, there's our formula that makes this whole thing work. We're We're we're we have a lot more, I would say, you know, we rely on a motor, and and there's a lot of grit to get things done most of the time that isn't always the prettiest way. So, you know, when I, when I was given this kind of choice of like, do you want to like sit here and just stick on this, like studying for your GMATs? Or do you want to like, just start something that's that's going to be a lot more, just, you know, you're just going to start trying to put together a plan. You're going to Google stuff and just put it all in a doc and we're just going to start banging ideas back and forth.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:11:43]:
That was so much more up my alley of how I just operate and think about problems that it quickly became, you know, it it was just it was consuming, and I just was couldn't put it down.

Jeffrey Stern [00:11:59]:
Yeah. On the consuming front, I don't know whenever startup inspiration comes up as an idea, it just always seems to come back to this idea that people are, like, solving their own problems. And when you're, like, solving your own problems, it is just the best source of that early stage motivation.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:12:16]:
Totally. And and for me, that one season when we were just getting going on it, we were, you know, particularly, like, the example of consuming for me, we were in the game 7 of, like, the semifinals of our league, And I stayed up till 3 am working on what we considered our business plan was like, who we were giving it to or turning it into. Like, I have no idea, but I just stayed up till 3 am the night before, like the biggest game of the season, because I just was consumed and it was a, not that I needed, like, an moment that I wanted to do this, but in retrospective, and then even else this happened, it's just like, wow, I'm, I'm really into this. And it's how I wanted to be spending my time that, you know, that night and going forward.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:13:00]:
Yeah. And I was gonna say that just, like, the hustle and the grind definitely sucked us in without even knowing it. And and also go and and the hustle and the grind in relation to it and in perspective of, like, trying to achieve a goal of just, like, that's how we were wired since, like, Brandon was saying, since we were, like, 3 or 4. It was just like, okay. There's something that I like doing. Okay. You have to work hard to go achieve it. And, like, when when we kind of we can get fairly I don't wanna say single track mind, but it was just like, we like that type of challenge and and putting our effort in towards it and and a little bit of, like, let's put the blinders on and do whatever it takes to to achieve whatever that goal is that we really, really want.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:13:42]:
And and starting Pneuma, that's what that filled for us as, you know, I played 1 year of pro, and and I knew that I was gonna be only doing 1, and I was working on Nooma on the side because I can already see that fulfilling, that type of desire in my life of, like, what really gets me excited. It was already kind of trumping what my hockey flame was at that point. And maybe that was me just being like, shit, I reached the top of my playing career, and there's no more going up. So I try to do something else to be great at. But we kind of realized that in ourselves pretty quickly. That is just like it really served a and it's not even like a competitiveness. Like, people always kinda think, like, oh, you played hockey at a high level. It's just like, you must be so competitive, and it's just like it's it's almost more of, like, an internal an intrinsic motivation and competitiveness as opposed to just, like, let's go crush the competition.

Jeffrey Stern [00:14:32]:
Right.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:14:33]:
Right. We don't really have that mindset to how we operate.

Jeffrey Stern [00:14:37]:
Do do you find yourself channeling some of the thinking philosophy mentality from hockey into the the world of NUMA?

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:14:44]:
Yes. All the time. Yeah. And our hockey careers, I think very much mimicked what as we see it just like, you know, being a startup in the CPG space where we were, I mean, made it to college and made it through there to the minors. That is everyone who gets to that level was the best guy on their high school team and probably every team they've been on to that point. And then you get there and you quickly realize that everyone else tells that same story. You're no longer the top of the depth chart. What our stories for just hockey were that we had to, as we got to those higher levels, just really change our games in terms of like, I had always played offense and now I had to play defense and now had to like, you know, work, you know, you're no longer the guy scoring goals, but you're really have to play this other role.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:15:34]:
And neither of us were drafted in the NHL, but showed up, you know, to trading camps where there's NHL draft picks there, and they're in locker room next to you. And you're there, and all of a sudden, like, you think you got you get by the 1st round of cuts, and then there's, like, 3 more NHL bags that show up. You're like, shit. This is not good. And I think the way of saying is, like, we really realize how oftentimes just, just cutthroat a lot of these, you know, the, that the sport in the industries are, but it was really in terms of how the person above us was making decisions. Whether so, you know, the coach, then AKA the grocery buyer, it's it's like he's not, he's not cutting you because he has some personal vendetta against you. Like he's here to, he's here to pay to win games and here to pick the products they think are gonna perform the best in their category. And at the end of the day, their job is on the line, so they're making the best decisions they absolutely can.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:16:33]:
And oftentimes, when you're the person they're not choosing, and I think a lot of like why we were able to stick around in hockey for a while is that we were had, did a good job internalizing the deficiencies in our game. And we're able to translate those to, you know, I know I have to work on this type of thing if I want to stick around at this level. And I think that was a lot for just how we take what, you know, oftentimes could seem like bad news and just that you're inevitably going to hear a no's and get turned down. And it really is you know, for us, I think the biggest thing with that hockey mentality and just just sports in general is just getting us to really look in the mirror and understand how we could be better better at making those types of, improvements in in our game and and and really, you know, not taking it personally that someone cut you, someone traded you, someone whatever. It's just like someone there is just inevitably looking at, you know, and especially in the grocery space, just a lot of numbers and some data here. And of course they see some trends. They're trying to figure out where you fit in, but they have to make a call. And oftentimes, you know, if it's not you, you know, that's like, you can be like, man, that guy's an an idiot.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:17:49]:
He, you know, this so and so brand probably came in and paid him a bunch of money to take our spot. Or you can, like, really try and think about what are the reasons we didn't hit the numbers that even if there was so and so brand who came in with, like, the drinks truck of money to get it on the shelf, like, that's what the game is. So you're going to need to be able to perform at that level, or you're just not going to make it. And I think just understanding a lot of what those the cold what you would perceive as like the cold and the unfair realities of sports really show up a lot in in that CPG, you know, space when you're talking about retail and stuff like that.

Jeffrey Stern [00:18:27]:
Yeah. It might be jumping the gun a little because I definitely wanna still talk about the Sure. Kind of the creation. But when you when you think about competition, right, I just feel like in retrospect, what you've built at this point seems obvious now, like, it's a good idea. Like, there was clearly a need. You guys are finding the opportunity for growth and and and growing the business. But I feel like they're obvious, but only in retrospect. And when you have one of those good ideas, it it could feel like you're too late.

Jeffrey Stern [00:18:52]:
And I feel like coming into the space specifically that you guys are in, where you just have all these companies, you know, there's a either a countless number of drinks, massive companies with massive market share. How how do you prevent feeling like deterred by that, by the sheer scale of the competition early on? And it sounds like it's more motivating to you guys than it is deterring, but

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:19:13]:
you know, I think it's it's probably 2 things. And first one, tying into what Brandon was just saying is just like, we got ourselves into this, so don't even worry about, like, what the odds are. And that is just like, we're going to control what we can control, and we're going to evaluate the market, and we're gonna understand what the rules of the game are as best we can. We're gonna try to understand our audience and try to find our niche and get ourselves as smart as we can. And the idea of fretting over what one of the 2 big dogs are doing and what product they may be releasing and and whatever that may be is very akin to, like, they just brought in another guy who is just playing at a higher level and is playing my same position. It's just like, what am I gonna do about it right now? Like, we talk about it, it's like, am I going to throw his stuff in the shower and I'm going to, am I going to like, like, break his skates or something? It's like, no. It was just like, I'm gonna go out there and do what I can do and control what I can control. And work like hell for that space of what I can control, that's kinda how we view, like, a lot of the, like, happenings in our space.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:20:18]:
Big guys, small guys, whatever it may be. And even conversely, it's just like, alright. What can we use from what they're doing to learn and be better, and what can we use, especially with the big guys? Like, what can we use against them? And understand know, what the marketplace is. And as we're developing it, it's really understanding of just, like, how important it is to understand your audience and picking a niche. And and when it is just, like, 99% of the general sports drink market is owned by 2 players, and, you know, now there's a third who just is getting bought by 1 of the 2. So it's just like it's still just like 2 companies just, you know, dominating it, and then it's just like, let them play their game. Do not try to out spend them and sign more athletes. It's just like, that's a bridge to nowhere.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:21:00]:
So it's just like, how can we develop our plan and our product to really service someone who's disenfranchised with what they're getting? And that's, again, it's nothing that crazy to think about, but it's just like really understanding that, leaning into that. You know? It took us a while, and we understood it in concept even, like, from the start. That's what we were trying to do. But to put that into practice and what it really means to listen to your audience and then to execute on that and execute well upon that, That took us a while, but that's also just, like, that's the recipe for us to be successful against some brands that have way more resources than us.

Jeffrey Stern [00:21:39]:
Got it. Yeah. Speaking of of recipe, I would love to talk about the inception of that in the early days because and this had to be, like, my most naive just like interpretation of thinking about how you guys must have started this thing. But I feel like for a lot of us, our first like real world experience comes like from starting a lemonade stand as children. And it's like, it's this rite of passage where the whole, you know, you get the table on the street, and you hone in and find the right balance of the freshly squeezed lemon juice and the sugar and getting the recipe right. And I have no idea how you guys would have had this, but in the earliest days of Numa, what is the process of like actually creating a non acidic drink? Like, how did you even approach that?

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:22:20]:
So, for us, you know, we aren't food scientists or we don't have grandma's secret sauce recipe kind of thing that we were leaning into. So, in the beginning, it was really just tapping into and so, therefore, knowing that we weren't going to be able to produce this even for ourselves with the with what the idea was internally. And so it was just, like, really tapping into our network, into Googling, whatever, and just figuring out, like, okay, like, what are the first steps to to doing, like, what this like, to bringing this idea to fruition? Luckily, we we did have enough in the network, and it was really crude in the beginning, and we were definitely, you know, getting ingredients from the wrong place and all that kind of stuff, but it was just like we're just getting initial prototypes. And, again, I was still in college, and we're getting, you know, unmarked bags of white powder sent to the hockey house delivered, and just like, it tastes terrible. And it's just like, I'm telling my all my buddies know about it. And they're like, you wanna try this again? You wanna try this white powder? Like, yeah. Sure. And it's just like so that's, like, how it started and how it started, how it's going.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:23:29]:
In the early days, so much of that too was just like and it's probably, something that says, how it's going is probably not even that different. It was just like, what minerals are acidic? What minerals are alkaline? And just be like, okay, so maybe

Jeffrey Stern [00:23:45]:
we can use some of these things and not some of these things.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:23:47]:
And then you start building on a lot of those For us, there were incredibly basic queries that we were trying to build it off of. And I've said it, like, many times.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:23:56]:
Was that a was that a PH joke? Oh,

Jeffrey Stern [00:23:59]:
yeah. It wasn't.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:24:01]:
Zing. Zing. But it was a whole lot about just, like, you know, we, there's so many things we just

Jeffrey Stern [00:24:07]:
didn't know that we just Googled our way into just finding out enough about, and then to eventually come to someone who, you know, generally is more qualified with

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:24:16]:
a couple of letters behind their name that we could bring some some idea. And I'm like, okay, so I know this is kind of out there, but can you kind of validate what this is? And that was what a lot of we what we lean into.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:24:29]:
I would say then as it evolved, kind of even going back to that question of just like, how do we compete against, especially the big guys? And it's just, like, getting an initial prototype out there, understanding it's probably not perfect, and then really trying to figure out what our audience cares about. And that's that's really how we've evolved our product and got a lot smarter about, like, what, not only just like the science behind it, but, like, what should be in there, in terms of what makes sense for what people are asking for. And so long story short, like, we quickly pivoted off of the focal point being a non acidic and pH balanced sports drink and really got ourselves into using organic and real ingredients that have high functionality and no added sugar. And that's just that's the umbrella and that's the that's the box we play within. And from there, we're able to kind of then, you know, figure out how can we solve different needs for people's different states in their fitness journey. And, you know, we've launched some other products around that. But that for us in terms of, like, actual formula

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:25:31]:
As we settled into that and understood it better, by really defining those parameters and then specifically for us, understanding that where we were going to put ourselves. We weren't going to go out there and say, like, you're going to bench more. You're going to run a faster 40. You're going to jump higher. And here's all the here's the paper and the study we did that proves that. Because we decided we weren't, that wasn't going to be our route. And we were going to build upon other food trends that we could really just validate by just knowing that sugar is a big thing. Wow.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:26:08]:
Numa has no added sugar. It's almost, it's almost like hiding in plain sight, but the juxtaposition on some of those things really, at the end of the day, played into people who didn't need to have a nutritionist validate this idea. It was it's fewer, again, fewer ingredients. They're all like organic coconut water things. I know and understand that the actual figuring this out and the optimal level of what that's supposed to be, we understood that probably wasn't going to be our strength. So we and, you know, really found a market and a way to make a product that could work for that type of consumer where they didn't really care. It was like, you know, does this make me run faster? Like, I care that there's no added sugar. And positioning yourself that way to really take advantage of who you are.

Jeffrey Stern [00:26:55]:
Right. And it seems like your whole initial, like, go to market strategy building on the product strategy is very much in the same vein of just, like, makes makes a lot of sense. I know you guys at this point have a pretty like dominant presence here in in Cleveland, you know, athletic facilities. I see you guys everywhere over, you know, in different fitness places, but was it in it in the early days, just, you know, going direct to those places where you knew the kind of people that, again, going back to the idea of solving your own problems that, you know, you this was a product that you wanted yourself, finding those people that that would that would resonate with?

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:27:27]:
Yeah. Totally. And even before we launched, we were, you know, from, like, prelaunch surveys and and everything, understanding that there was a much more addressable market outside of typical bat and ball in in sports in terms of just like, you know, it's just like, wow. Like, we have our highest rate rated, you know, user profile are yogis. It's just like, that's kinda saying something, and no one that's 18 really cares about what we are, like, proposing here in these just, like, even in in the, the prelaunch surveys. And so what we really then decided to do was to build a brand more and more towards this audience that is just, like, for us, it's a shift in mentality of, you know, I'm proactively here at this yoga, CrossFit spinning, boutique fitness studio because I love the benefits of it. And, presumably, I like putting products in my body that help me on that journey. And as opposed to, 1, trying to think about, like, you know, are you trying to get just the masses where it's just like, this is a diet drink, and I'm kinda just, like, I begrudgingly go to the gym and don't really necessarily care.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:28:40]:
I just know I should be doing it. And then also knowing that, like, we're not targeting kids. Like, they don't really care. They care about seeing LeBron James No, Mary. On the, the promotional. So that's what really guided us in the beginning. And that kind of, I think, intuition was pretty spot on. And and then in terms of, like, that go to market initial strategy is just, like, we were just out there so much.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:29:03]:
And any workout in Cleveland circa 2013 to 16, like, there's a good chance. If there was, like, a, you know, a class of public like, we were gonna try to find a way to get there. Or, like, you know, pretty much every studio had had seen us with a cooler full of NUMA's. And it was fantastic for us to to, again, really get in front of what we thought our target audience was and just listen, learn, see how it operates, see how people use it, understand what they care about. You know, they don't always know you're the founder, and they'll tell you some people will tell you regardless, but, like, it's great, honestly, when they don't know, and they can be that absolutely candid and honest. And, like

Jeffrey Stern [00:29:45]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:29:46]:
That was really just the incubation

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:29:48]:
of our product. Yeah. Is is that channel? I would say, like, the the slang term for that and and, you know, it it wasn't the initial grocery stuff. It's just man a van. And it was just literally the numero's and the numero the numero van. And for people who have been here for a while, you know, you probably saw it around 271, 480, and 90 over there. Like, it was just cruising around. Like, we were out, like, doing like, showing up.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:30:14]:
And and I would say my plug, bringing it home to to Cleveland too, is, you know, obviously we were from here and when we were thinking about, you know, as we were finishing hockey and like, where are we going to go to do this? And the partner that we work with is from Southern California. And he was saying like, guys, we're in like the fitness cap, you know, fitness and, you know, healthy diets and lifestyle. Like, this is it. We need to, you guys, we should be launching this here. And I think we just knew we pushed back, and I don't even know totally why we were so like, wanted to dig our heels in so hard, but we just believed and, I think, had this, like, gut that, like, if we're gonna do it, we should we'll just be better in our own hometown. And that was totally right. And so many of those places that Jared was talking about, every yoga spinning CrossFit studio or any group that was, you know, like a run club here. We didn't know any, any or many of the owners, but one in a town this size, you're usually like 1 or 2 degrees of separation away from anyone you really want to be.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:31:27]:
And for the cold calls that we did a shitload of them anyways, when you even go through that, I

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:31:32]:
was just like, Hey, we're, we're

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:31:35]:
2 young guys trying to start this company. We're from the area. We have this healthy drink. Can we come pass out, you know, some free samples to your class? And everyone's like, hell yeah, sounds good. You know, I'd love to have you. So, you know, the Midwest nice plug or whatever it is, is that we had a lot of those just barriers to entry that if we, if we would have chose trying to go to SoCal, I don't even like where, where would I even start and who am I going to call? And then when they answer, you know, when I cold call them or they answer me, like, what am I going to tell them, about why they should let me, you know, come into their place and pass it out, pass up, pass up product. So we used that to our advantage, and it was really important.

Jeffrey Stern [00:32:15]:
Yeah. So you guys were were not sacrificing health for the building of this business in the early days. No.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:32:22]:
Try enough pneuma.

Jeffrey Stern [00:32:24]:
Yeah. Practicing what you preach. That's awesome. I would be remiss if I didn't ask you about pneuma, like the word, like the brand and the what what is the meaning of of pneuma, And where does that come from?

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:32:37]:
How we named it was actually a pretty good reflection on us already kind of picking up where this thing should be headed. So, like, initial names were, 1, we were, like, we were really focused on the alkalinity and not not acidic. So it was, like, 7 aid, like, a pH of 7, and then refuel, r e p h u e l. And we were already just already feeling this. Just like, this feels too much like a sports drink that's targeted towards people who drink sports drinks. We're trying to make a sports drink for people that don't care about sports drinks anymore or are dissatisfied with them, so we shouldn't sound like one. And we went through a ton of names. We eventually got to the point where it's just like, let's just own a name.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:33:20]:
And I it was one of our business partner consultants at the time just had the, like, let's make an acronym, and NUMA stands for no more artificials. So, obviously, it's a little fudgery with the double o and whatnot. But, you know, we we like that in terms of, 1, just the sound of no. We didn't want a negative to start our to the start of the brand name. And then as we were kind of getting designs made, really liked it with the Infinity. And for us, that idea of the continual journey and balance, maybe marketing fluff, but we actually feel very strongly on that. And even, you know, our mission statement of helping and inspiring people to be the best, healthiest version of themselves, it's just like, that's a journey, and we call, you know, the pursuit pursuit of the ultimate you. Whatever that is, it's just like it's not about winning championships, and it's not running your fastest forty, like Brandon said.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:34:16]:
And so that infinity, even more even so than no more artificial, this probably means even more to us about what the brand stands for and as it's evolved and what the name and our logo really kind of embody.

Jeffrey Stern [00:34:31]:
Yeah. And was the URL available?

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:34:35]:
It's not NUMA. I forget what yeah. We we weren't really sure. So it's drink NUMA is is what it is, and we weren't exactly sure what to do and just kinda saw at that point, there still weren't a ton of brands doing the, like, drink pneuma or, you know, like, bar life or something like that or whatever. But, yeah, we weren't ready to pay for it either. So we're we're now stuck with the handle and all social or the the URL and all social handles are all drink NUMA now. And so it is kinda it is what it is, and it's just like people just like, hey. We got drink pneuma here today to pass out their drinks.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:35:12]:
It's like, well, it's pneuma that isn't drink, but whatever. So, yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:35:19]:
Yeah. I wanna build on on that, the vision and and kind of the the higher level, goal and, you know, what you're working towards and just kind of first set the stage, like, where is NUMA today and where do you see it going? What is that impact that you ultimately want to have?

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:35:38]:
In terms of where we are today, we are, as a lot of brands have, had to really rethink our our channel strategy and what we're doing to get, you know, our product into the consumer's hands and what's the smartest way to do that. You know, for for lack of a better term, we're just really leaning into ecommerce, a lot harder than we ever had before. And and, frankly, we were already kind of on that shift before the pandemic, but it's just a big focus for us for a multitude of reasons. And really driving into that is what we're doing, and and it's part of the our strategy of launching new products and how we're showing up in terms of, you know, how we're marketing and using social media and and whatnot to to drive trial and all that. That is just like a lot of that is is shifted towards a direct to consumer model. In the area, it's not like we're especially, like, in the area, Cleveland, even just the region, we aren't, like, pulling ourselves out of any retailers and still definitely, like, you know, especially in the Cleveland area, just, like, so much love for, again, giving us the the chance to get on the shelves there and and still continue to be awesome accounts for us and hopefully them too. But kind of state of the union of where we're at in terms of the bigger, bigger picture is, is really leaning into that. And we also see that too business wise, as we can develop strong, and the reason, so as she said, one of the reasons that we really, really like this model, it allows us to build stronger and deeper relationships with our customers.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:37:11]:
And what that can do though then is help us be a lot stronger as we expand outside and, again, expand outside of the region where everyone doesn't know the numibro story and hasn't seen the the mystery mobile with us with a ton of drinks in the back kind of thing. Right? So it's just like the more that we can really lean into that and build a national brand presence, and that takes a lot of work as we've realized over and over again, that is just like that helps us as we kind of chart things out of where we think we want to go in the longer term.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:37:48]:
A lot of our understanding of just our business was understanding just a channel strategy concept of the, you know, the dollars we were making, selling on our website to a gym or yoga studio and then into retail. Specifically, you know, as, as in accounts outside of our market where we, you know, the places where we love the story off. It's just like, I see you in, like, every gym. And it's just like, yeah, that helps a lot in retail. And when it's someone's, you know, people are they're not discovering the brand there. And a founder from another, from a bar company told me this. And it's so spot on. And it took us a while to learn.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:38:39]:
But he told us that grocery is either going to be an expensive acquisition or a profitable retention place for you. And for us, we've had really seen in Cleveland where you said we were in every gym and studio and on place. So when we, when we showed up on shelves, it wasn't that enough people knew us that in terms to to be able to create the sales velocities that we needed, we were able to do it because we were showing up to the turkey trot with a zillion coupons and just passing them out to the market. And things like that could drive scale, that drives sales. And we're so bullish on being able to do those types of things. Because the further you start getting outside of, you know, show up and, like I said, somewhere you think it'd be awesome, like show up in Denver or wherever food place that's supposed to be like really on trend, they don't know us. So we show up on a shelf, and it's going to be tough sledding. And we do know that, at least in the way this industry works right now, definitely the lion's share of dollars and volume goes through traditional brick and mortar.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:39:51]:
But your ability to actually compete there and get in and start swinging at the big boys, I think back to the beginning, the early questions are just like, you can't you can't just expect that people

Jeffrey Stern [00:40:02]:
are just gonna, like, mosey down the aisle and like,

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:40:04]:
oh, this sounds nice. You know, I I was gonna buy this, but I'm I'm really

Jeffrey Stern [00:40:08]:
in a discovery mode, and I'll look at the label, and I'll try it.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:40:11]:
Like, it doesn't happen. People know what they're getting before the store.

Jeffrey Stern [00:40:14]:
And if we're trying to flag people down in the store on

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:40:18]:
the first time, it's tough sledding. So just really thinking about the really, really reading the and understanding the story of what has made us successful and making sure that we stick to that as we look to grow. And for us,

Jeffrey Stern [00:40:33]:
it really means that a lot of

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:40:35]:
the grocery growth is going to be back burner.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:40:38]:
And then in terms of just kind of brand vision, you know, I think some of the stuff that we're excited about is, again, looking back at what our audience gets excited about from us. And it's just like, okay, so how can we do a better job of telling the Pneuma brand story? And I think people really resonate with the entrepreneurial, the hustle, the brothers in a family founded company. And then so there's that whole bit. And then another big piece is is highlighting and doing more with our sweat and do good, and just something that, you know, it's not like it's a formal thing, but, you know, a department, quote, unquote, of our company focused on, obviously, the charitable efforts of, you know, we we do so much in this industry, and we we fully recognize that we are tapping into 2 markets that are for affluent peoples, like organic and healthier and more expensive drinks and food and beverage and boutique fitness. And it's just like, okay, so what can we do? And it's just like and I think, for us, it's just kind of just, as Brandon said, the parents giving us those good morals. It's just like where there's the where's the there's the disconnect of we're trying to make difference in people's lives, but we're we're kind of targeting people that have a lot of privilege. And so it's just like, our swaddenedo good is all about how can we enable people that may not have that access for whatever reason to either products like ours or fitness and, like, those awesome benefits of group fitness or, or any type of, of activities. Just like, how can we help and support those types of causes? And, you know, even though the plug for our 2 partners that are both local Zenworks, they provide yoga and mental health training for at risk youth throughout schools across the city.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:42:36]:
And then Aspah, they help people with disabilities, you know, get into athletics and they have teams and leagues, and Brandon and I went and played sled hockey. And it's, like, those are the things that, like, we wanna do a better job, one, storytelling about and then growing our efforts. And that's really just, like, again, where where we see a little bit of that triple bottom line flywheel. It's just, like, the more that we can grow our products and our reach and smartly do that in profitable ways, that allows us to then continue to tell and expand our story, which is hopefully a good story and one that people can get behind. Well, then all of a sudden, they can buy more products that can help us tell our story better and and kind of move forward like that. And so, you know, it's it's it's definitely been the dream and the mission for a long time. When we started, it was always about more than just drinks. We can feel ourselves getting closer and closer kinda to to being able to to make it more taking it from just an at home backyard story to something that can be a little bit bigger.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:43:39]:
And so we're excited about how can we work relentlessly to to allow ourselves that, that ability to, to grow that story and to, to, to tell it

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:43:48]:
to a lot more people. And with some of that, I think some of the things that we've found that is authentic to us and made a lot of sense, I guess, with where the world was last year with one of our partners in particular, like pretty much like every, you know, non, you know, nonprofit and charitable organization, Last year was tough on a lot of people. So they were, you know, looking for ways to raise money. And it's also like, we can't get anyone together, but we can't. So, like, this is just, you know, every every option sucks. So Jared and I, and and Tusk, was like, okay, what are the things we can do? And we did through our, you know, promoted it through our social and put it out there where we had a new McGraw Olympics, where we were doing different fitness activities and chugging drinks. And the the what we did was we had our fans just bet on who they think would win, and we donated it all to to the charity. And, you know, people on our website were able to donate it to get, you know, a half off on their next order.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:44:51]:
So it was it was a win win for everyone, but it also just told the story of just who we are. It was just like, yeah, we're fitness guys trying to help these guys out. This is kind of the only way we have. It was a very it was a crude. It was just like it wasn't pretty. It was like we have this that the Numa gym is in the back of our warehouse, and our mom was a gym teacher. So we got a lot of their old stuff and then have pieced together our own. So it's a glorified home gym.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:45:18]:
So we're like, let's just do a thing here and people can bet on it and just to us. But that's, that's the story really of just who we are. We're just guys who work out in a warehouse who are trying to, you know, and we're finding ways that could, you know, support our partners and just trying to lean into who we are. So I think just there's a lot of that behind the scenes of us that is just a cool part of the story.

Jeffrey Stern [00:45:42]:
Yeah. I'll pull on the the numa bros thread for a bit and and love it as it get your perspective on, you know, like, what are the things that you feel like you've been able to do as a consequence of building this as brothers that you know, maybe other co founders where it's always one of the most challenging things in a startup is, you know, finding the right person to align with and build this thing together that that's allowed you to do and and just kind of the dynamics of that, you know, personally, I've I I have 2 younger brothers and I've always kinda wanted to start something with them as well. So what would and also, what would your advice be then?

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:46:15]:
Yeah. It's definitely something that we always get asked on and, like and for good reason. I generally think that there's not much middle ground of how how it goes. It's just like, yeah. I started a business with my dad. It's like, how's it going? It's like, it's just okay. Like, it's like there you get a lot of that pretty well. Not a lot of that.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:46:30]:
Yeah. This is just like, no. We're at

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:46:31]:
each other's service. We're like, this is awesome kind of thing. And and for us, we're still here. So at least from my perspective, it it, you know, it has been awesome. And, you know, I think that what we really understood going into it, and particularly as we first had a, you know, first, like, you know, heated conversations, it's just, like, we grew up so close. And, you know, frankly, I'm 18 months younger than Brandon, and I was basically just following in his path, and anything that he did, like,

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:47:04]:
I was trying to do.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:47:05]:
And so it was just like, we were always doing the same exact things and always playing, and somehow we never really actually got in that many fights despite how competitive it all was. So, like, we had this, like, lifelong, like, bond of always being together and having this, like, super high again, like, it's not even, like, I guess, like, competition and just, like, working in, like, kind of, like, high stress situations, but not being at each other's throats. And so then, like, as we transitioned into business, it turned out to be such a competitive advantage for us, understanding that it's just like, I do not have to sugarcoat anything. 1, I can read when you are, so it doesn't even matter, so you should just tell me. But it's just like, we know we're all trying. We're here right now. We're an x. We're trying to get to y.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:47:55]:
Right? I know that all you're doing is trying to give me your thoughts on the absolute smartest way to get to why, to get to that that that goal. And even if it's completely different than what I'm thinking, and it kind of pisses me off that you're not understanding how I think we we should get there. It's just like, you're not trying to sabotage this whole thing for the hell of it. Like, you're saying it because it's what you believe. And, like, having that, like, really deep understanding that everything comes with a place of really good intent, that it comes with a place of love, criticism, praise, whatever. It it just like that communication and trust that we're able to have in each other is just like, it just ends up making nearly everything work and making situations, again, not that they don't get heated, not that, you know, I probably lose my temper a lot more than Brandon, so it's a good thing he's the older brother, But we're always able to be like, all right, I'm sorry. Yeah. You know, that's how I get this is what I think we should be doing.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:48:51]:
Yeah, I know. And like, whatever that case may be, it's just like because we have such a deep, just like understanding of where each of us is coming from and trust in each other that, again, it turns out to be such a big competitive advantage for us.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:49:06]:
Yeah. I feel like I hadn't heard this word until, I don't know, maybe the last 6 months and I heard it 10 times a day now. It was just like the alignment is just it's perfect. Where we are very much on the same page of, you know, wanting to, of how we're trying to get there together, how the is it same pain points, same I don't know if it ends up being too much groupthink on some things, but just I think we have really tried to just the values of what we've made our company and like the last, you know, Jared was kind of talking around it, but productive honesty is one of the core values of our company of just being able to really just put it out there of where you're coming from. And that has really made it where we didn't have to, you know, there really wasn't a testing out period where I had to figure out, like, is this guy on the same page as me? You know, it just had always been there. And fortunately for me too, you should always, if you can, pick a co founder that's smarter than you. So, I lucked out

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:50:08]:
on that one. We all have our time together.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:50:10]:
Yeah. I can just bring the hustle and he can bring the smarts. So, and, and they work, but also too, just, just having, for me, just a ton of trust too, and frankly, just Jared's abilities. It's like, you know, if I were in a family business where we're working together, it's like, if deep down you thought that like, oh, you know, I love him, but he's just not like the smartest or whatever. I don't know who's gonna get through this. Like, I don't know, like, in my mind, and it may even be too much just, like, why do I need to, like, check your work? Like, what am I gonna add to this? Like, you've you already anything that that I could possibly think of, you've thought of that, and then 3 scenarios off of that. So I just have so much trust, you know, not only in him as a person, but just his ability. And I think that's just so important to, you know, probably an extra level too when you're working with a family member.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:51:09]:
Just like, do I like them as a person? Are we going to get along? But also, do I, you know, do I always just notice, like, man, that guy, he can never communicate his ideas to the people. And it's like, they never get them, and I am always in my head about that. Like, I never have any of those types of we're so in terms of the, you know, the bond and the trust and just just where we are, It truly is like a 1 plus 1 equals 3, where we can just really just lean on each other so much that, like, this thing, like, you got, and I don't have to worry about it. I know it's gonna be taken care of better than I could ever do. Got it. And then on my side, he just we'll ask questions. We'll have discussions. And if I if

Jeffrey Stern [00:51:52]:
I need feedback, we'll do it. But, like,

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:51:55]:
you trust I can do by end, then and we can just lean on each other to to take care of that kind of stuff. And you don't need to babysit and just make sure they're like, oh, were you going to turn that in on time or not? It's just like, it's done.

Jeffrey Stern [00:52:08]:
Yeah. That's, that's awesome to hear. Well, kind of wind it down here. Just a real softball question here, but what are your favorite flavors? Because I have my own opinions about this, but Yeah. Yeah. I'd love to get your guys' perspective.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:52:22]:
For our sports drink, it's funny. We'll probably share all the same answers for this too. I go between chocolate mint and lemonade. And then our pre workout, the energy drink, I like the pineapple mango the most, and then I like the lime. I was gonna say that I like those 2, my favorites. I can let you have that one. And then I like the lime of our hydration mix. So of our 3 product lines, those are my favorites.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:52:47]:
And for me, generally, anything with caffeine is cool.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:52:51]:
That's that's my direction. And then we'll tell you about the new product that's launching next time. So, you know, look out for that.

Jeffrey Stern [00:52:59]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:52:59]:
Come and come and see me in a couple of weeks here. Yeah. Yeah. 4th product line from Numa before the end of next month. So

Jeffrey Stern [00:53:07]:
Right on. Right on. I will say the the chocolate mint is my favorite as well.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:53:11]:
So yours yeah. So people are afraid to try it because it's a chocolate and sports drink, which is Right.

Jeffrey Stern [00:53:14]:
That You're afraid

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:53:15]:
to try it.

Jeffrey Stern [00:53:16]:
Then you try

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:53:17]:
it. You're like, wow. Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:53:18]:
It is. Yeah.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:53:19]:
It's it's it's a little interesting case study on just that phenomena that outside of Cleveland, it does terribly in grocery stores where it's just like, again, like, we have we aren't able to, like, let people know about it really well before they're there. But through our website and Amazon and our wholesale business, it's our top selling sports drink SKU, where it's an audience of people who have, in in general, have, like, tried them more and have tried all the flavors. A lot of people come through a variety trial pack that it's literally the worst in retail and the best on all other platforms that

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:54:05]:
I was just bringing bringing the numbers and having a conversation with Jared about, you know, about where Shopify was, about and just where it was in retail and just saying,

Jeffrey Stern [00:54:17]:
like, I know we love it, but is there is there enough here to carry it, and we're trying to

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:54:21]:
hit minimum runs? And now, it's just like it's it moves so much slower, and it's going to age out, and we're having all these things. I know we think it's good, but we can really stick with this. And that

Jeffrey Stern [00:54:32]:
was the, it was one of the biggest fights we had.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:54:34]:
And, thankfully,

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:54:37]:
I caved Lost my shit. I lost that one.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:54:40]:
He won it. It's here. Not going anywhere. And and

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:54:44]:
and just I'm glad I'm glad

Jeffrey Stern [00:54:45]:
Jared won that one.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:54:46]:
And and and as we've grown, we all are. Yeah. It's not going anywhere. So

Jeffrey Stern [00:54:51]:
That's awesome. It's like the it's like the hidden gem, which will be my cheesiest segue to talk about hidden gems of Cleveland, which is the collective collage that we are building of, everyone who's come on just things that are not necessarily your favorite thing in Cleveland, but that other people may not know about.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:55:11]:
Okay. People know about it, but it's not, you know, in your face every day. Metroparks and being from Cleveland my whole life, you know, going through the winters makes you really appreciate when it's nice out and throughout these months when and then also, you know, now with kind of where Numa is, like, we we actively get outside, try to find a Metro park, try to find somewhere where we can either one, you know, take fun fitness photos, build content, but also just on our own. And I've talked about this nonstop. It's like get outside and workout and do something outside and sweat outside because, you know, we all know there's 6 months of the year where you can't even think about it. So when I can when I can get it in like that and be out outside, and there's there's so many metro parks that are amazing. And I feel like the one that I I didn't even realize was right by us, but the Euclid Creek One Wire warehouse, it's amazing. And it was never it was never something that I was thinking about.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:56:12]:
I need to get there, and now I do. And the other day, like, I I put on my rolling blades and rolled butter the whole way around it. It was awesome.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:56:20]:
I would say mine mine's a place. This is a reflection on them and also just kind

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:56:25]:
of what

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:56:25]:
we do. So I would say Cork and Bottle, the restaurant. I don't know if you ever have you ever been there, Jeff?

Jeffrey Stern [00:56:32]:
I I have not been.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:56:34]:
Okay. Yeah. So a little bit of a hole in the wall. It's over it's on the east side. It's right by Hillcrest. Hillcrest Hospital. And great little watering hole. Such amazing prices.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:56:45]:
It's just like it's so Cleveland. The the food is great. But the we really love it, though, is because, you know, before pandemic, when we were run a men's league hockey team that we take all too seriously, and then, you know, definitely have that rep, but, you know, we win championships. So that's when it is about winning championships is men's league. But then after the games, we'd go to the cork and bottle and, you know, it's like $2 Coronas in the summer, and you're getting hot, chicken, what is it? Cheap meal because we are generally vegan, but the the

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:57:20]:
Once a week.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:57:21]:
Spicy garlic parm chicken wings. Yeah. We'll do. We'll have a cheat meal with that. It's just like, that is it. That's living right there. So that that's my hidden gem.

Jeffrey Stern [00:57:29]:
Right on. We'll definitely be checking it out. Well, Brandon and Jared, I really appreciate, you guys coming on and telling your story. I really appreciate it. It's, it's awesome to hear.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:57:41]:
It was fun. Yeah. Well, thanks for having us, Jeff. Thanks, Jeff.

Jeffrey Stern [00:57:43]:
Yeah. If if folks have anything that they would like to follow-up with you about beyond just tracking down the van, where's the the best place for them to to find you?

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:57:53]:
So you could just you can email either of us, brandon@drinknewma, Jared@drinknewma, or just head to the website, drinkpneuma.com, contact us form, and it'll find its best.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:58:04]:
Yeah. Brandon's regular.

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:58:05]:
Jared's a 2 r Jared,

Brandon and Jarred Smith (NOOMA) [00:58:07]:
so it'll bounce back at you

Jeffrey Stern [00:58:08]:
if you spell it with 1. So Well, awesome. Thank you, guys. For sure. That's all for this week. Thanks for listening. We'd love to hear your thoughts on today's show, so shoot us an email at lay of the land at upside dot f m, or find us on Twitter at podlayoftheland, at thetagan, or at sternjefe, j e f e. We'll be back here next week at the same time to map more of the land.