#38: Dan Collins (Wastebits)

-- AI Generated --

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:00:00]:
Because of how we collect the information and the way we get it at a a very granular level about what makes up a particular waste stream. So a waste stream would be a combination of a bunch of different things. But because we understand the waste at an ingredient level, we believe that there's an opportunity for us to play in the circular economy model where we begin to offer materials that had previously been destined for landfill and for disposal reintroducing it back into the supply chain up on the front side of of the manufacturing process and helped, to ultimately reduce the reliance on our natural resources.

Jeffrey Stern [00:00:41]:
Let's discover the Cleveland entrepreneurial ecosystem. We are telling the stories of its entrepreneurs and those supporting them. Welcome to the lay of the land podcast, where we are exploring what people are building in Cleveland. I'm your host, Jeffrey Stern. And today, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dan Collins. And Dan is a veteran of the waste industry, bringing more than 30 years of experience to the space which he leveraged to found Waste Bits back in 20 14. And since then, Wastebits now provides a full service waste platform that connects the disparate parties in the space from waste generators to waste facilities to service providers. And Wastebits now supports clients ranging from Fortune 500 companies to small and medium independent service providers across North America and beyond with a focus on reducing the pain of waste categorization by helping these organizations understand and take immediate action on their waste streams to improve operational performance and reduce costs.

Jeffrey Stern [00:01:46]:
And I know that, these terms are industry terms, and we will define them and dive much deeper into them over the course of our conversation, But I really loved learning about the waste management space and exploring Dan's depth of experience and entrepreneurial learnings building waste bits over the last 10 years. I hope you all enjoy my conversation with Dan Collins. So I was thinking about the the best place to start this conversation and where that might be, and I I thought it would be to to maybe talk about the industry of waste management and what what what got you into it originally. And thinking through it, I was reminded of this book that I read back in middle school when I I first got into investing called, Common Stocks and Uncommon Profits. It was by this guy, Peter Lynch. And really, one of the only lessons that stuck with me from that book was that there is often the greatest opportunity where others don't want to look because it either is too niche or too difficult or too unsexy. And in my, own career, it is precisely in the unsexy and niche and difficult that I have devoted my time from election infrastructure to health care credentialing. And these are not, you know, the the industries that young children grow up aspiring to be in one day necessarily.

Jeffrey Stern [00:03:08]:
And so I'd love to hear the the story of of how it is you came to the waste management industry and where your kind of entrepreneurial proclivity comes from.

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:03:17]:
No. That's a good question. So the the the waste industry as a whole is one of those, you know, people have always said it's recession resistant. Right? So not recession proof. But the the industry itself is it's actually very complex and there's a lot of different silos in it. And so how how I got started in the industry, believe it or not, was back in high school. So in high school, I, I had a job working for a company that, you know, I had no idea what kind of business they were in, But, you know, it turns out years later, I kinda now know a little bit about more about it, but I was unloading hazardous waste off the back of trucks as a warehouse guy when I was 16 years old. It was my my second job.

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:04:04]:
And so I, I started kinda in the in the warehouse unloading trucks. And then, you know, as I as I went through college, then I was able to to become more of a route driver and more kinda customer facing. I've literally spent my entire career in this space and started in the warehouse and have kinda worked my way up through the organizations. Anything from operations to to sales and sales marketing to starting a company called Waste Bits. And so we, you know, it it it's it's an area of of business that, as you mentioned, most people don't think of. It's definitely not sexy, but one thing's for sure is people generate trash even through the wet latest pandemic. One of the one of the challenges the industry had is as everybody went home and was forced to go home, and think about what we all did is we've been to clean on our closets and do home remediation and, like, renovations. And so we ended up generating a lot more garbage at home than we do, like, when we were working.

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:05:08]:
So the industry actually, while their their revenues were down, their volumes were up substantially because of how how how we acted the things that we did.

Jeffrey Stern [00:05:18]:
It does seem to be one of those industries where it's this, like, hidden layer of society, or everyone understands that, I think, the scale and and gravity of waste management and the importance of it, but that no one really quite understands unless you are in it yourself what actually is going on behind the scenes there.

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:05:39]:
You know, I I would tell you it's they're they're in the industry. They call it nimby, not in my backyard. Right? So so nobody wants these disposal assets, these landfills, these recycle centers. They don't want them in their backyard, in their neighborhoods. But yet at the end of the day, you know, every week, you know, I'm I'm 50 years old. Right? As long as I can remember, we push the trash can out to the end of the driveway every week. Right? And it magically disappears. Well, guess what? It goes somewhere.

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:06:06]:
Right? And so, you know, we we as a side, we've continued to struggle with recycling and waste minimization. We just continually expect it to happen. And so behind the scenes, there's a lot to it. But at the end of the day, the companies like, that are in the space, they do well. They make a lot of profits, but it's a dirty and old industry that really has been pretty resistant to change.

Jeffrey Stern [00:06:31]:
Yeah. Over the course of your your time in the industry, just exploring what actually happens after people bring the trash out of their driveway every week and seeing kind of maybe the dearth of technology and and kind of how antiquated maybe aspects of the industry are. As we make our way towards, you know, waste bits and and the work that you've done there, what were were some of the problems that that you witnessed within the industry that's at least started getting you thinking about what can I do to to maybe improve some of these processes and and the way things are done?

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:07:04]:
I think the the answer to the question, I first probably need to kinda describe a little bit about that, the area of the industry where I've spent my career and where we specialize lies in the problems that we're really trying to solve. So, you know, generally speaking, when you think about non hazardous waste like garbage and trash and things of that nature, or even on the hazardous waste side of the business, there there's 2 aspects of it. There's the collection side, which is what happens as they're collecting it, and then there's the post collection. So it's the way that they process the recycle centers, the landfills, things of that nature. And so inside of of those two markets, I've spent my my career primarily in the post collection side of the business, so more on the operation side and then on the sales and marketing. But the the other kind of break in separation is the the waste types. And so, you know, general household garbage construction, like a construction project, Those are all pretty pretty standard waste streams that just show up at the gates and they process them in the landfills. The non hazardous industrial waste, the hazardous waste, things like used motor oil, which is a universal waste and and paint and things of that nature.

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:08:18]:
I've spent my career more on the the regulated side of the industry. And so, you know, the problem that that that, you know, I witnessed, as I I spent all these years in the organizations is that not only are the companies siloed. So inside of the companies, most of the the big waste companies have been built through merger and acquisition. And so they they run a lot of lot of different operating systems to accomplish the same things. You know, it's it's very uncommon or it's very common rather for, you know, the, a waste company that says they have a 100 locations where they where they process materials. It's it's very common for them to be on 30 and 40 different IT systems and try to roll all this all roll all this information in. But the the problem that it that comes up along with is you can imagine trying to manage all this different infrastructure. But the problem is is that when they work with these large customer bases, the Sherwin Williams of the world, the Goodyear Tire and Rubber's of the world where they have thousands of locations across America.

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:09:24]:
They want a consistent experience. They want to be able to go to one place and get the same information that is consistent across their entire enterprise. And so inside of the the the companies themselves, there's a challenge in in achieving this, but every company event is different. And so, you know, it it is very much a siloed industry where there is no collaboration really amongst industry players. But a lot of times there's no collaboration even inside of the companies themselves. And so those those are the the high level problems that that I saw that I feel like there's an opportunity to address.

Jeffrey Stern [00:10:04]:
Got it. And to kind of paint a little bit more of the contextual picture here, who who are the stakeholders in the industry? I I know you have kind of the facilities, the providers, the the generators of waste, us us people, but but how do you think about those stakeholders and and how they interface with with the overall, like, infrastructure, but also from the business side of things.

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:10:25]:
There's really I would call them 4 different key stakeholders. There's the processors, the generators of the waste, the people that are providing the service in the middle, and then the regulators. Right? So, you know, the the Ohio EPA, the US EPA, so the the the government agencies and the state agencies that are trying to administer it. And if you you kind of break whether it's imposed collection or collection, right, there's other other facets of industry that comes in, including, you know, regulations rather. It's it's like DOT and, you know, OSHA that the safety folks. I mean, they're it's it's a very heavily regulated industry.

Jeffrey Stern [00:11:04]:
Yeah. So so before we turn on the mic here to record, you're you're mentioning our our mutual friend here, Scott Meyer, who had introduced us and and getting to the founding story of waste bits. And so I love to to just kind of hear how it came to be because it sounds like a very a very cool story.

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:11:21]:
Yeah. It was. So I had actually approached so my my nephew, owns another it's a founder of another software company down in Akron called Segment. And I had approached him, Hopefully, it was it was quite a while ago. So I I would say early 2000 about the opportunity that waste is actually achieving on now. And at the time, it wasn't right. The industry really wasn't ready for, you know, collaborative systems and and, you know, cloud infrastructure, things of that nature. And so back in 2012, I had approached him again about, hey.

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:11:58]:
I have this idea of this opportunity where we can really begin to attack this this this environmental industry and provide collaboration and solutions to to the keys key stakeholders. And so the timing was was kinda perfect. And that, you know, he said, you know, his question to me was what was what's the the number one challenge that is creating all the issues and friction in the industry? And I I told him there was a lack of transparency and lack of reporting. So kinda like the way we used to do our taxes back in the back in the early days. Right? We would get our our forms and we would fill them out and we'd send them in and there was really no proof of validation. It was self reporting. Well, the the industry for the most part, I would say for 90% of the industry itself, it's all self reporting. So there there is no federal mandate that says you have to report unless you're you're the special class, of waste generator.

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:12:54]:
And so the one area that we chose to attack was around what we call waste characterization. And that's a regulated part of the industry that we can can address. And so he he at his company, he had a couple developers, at the time. Scott Meyer was one of them. And Scott had a a a great network of friends and and folks that that he had worked with, and they were they were going to be jumping on this this doing this competition called start up bus. Never heard of it in my life. But, you know, they had, start up bus at the time was fairly new. I think it was 3 to 4 years old.

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:13:31]:
And so, you know, in in effect, what it is is a group of of friends, software developers, biz dev folks, and they jump on this bus. There's 4 or 5 of these buses that kinda, like, spread out across America, and they come to some rally point. What the the competition is supposed to mimic is a start is a a start up company, but they shrink it into 3 to 4 days. And so the idea is we need to build a product, you get MVP, you need to to put the business case together, then you're gonna stand on stage and you're gonna pitch it in front of a bunch of investors who's gonna vote on this company whether it's a good idea, like, what kind of job you did. So so Scott and his friends, we're gonna jump on this bus, and they were collecting ideas. And so I met with with a group that was getting on the bus. And I I happened to explain to them, like, the industry and why and the opportunity. And one of the gentlemen that was, was on Scott's team actually just happened to be from the waste industry.

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:14:31]:
And I had no idea who he was. He didn't know who we were. And as as I was explaining, he was like, wait a minute. How do you know these things? Because, you know and so he was able to validate the team that, hey. You know what? What he's saying is actually true. Right? There's there's a big problem. There's a lot of friction in the space. And so they they end up choosing our product to work on on the start up bus competition.

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:14:57]:
They, they started I I believe it was in Akron that year. I'm sorry. I'm I take that back. They all flew to Las Vegas, and they hop on Las Vegas bus. And what they end up doing is they went down to, South by Southwest, and they pitched at the South by Southwest show or whatever you call it event. So we made it like into the semifinals and and then we we ended up losing out, but we we went pretty far. And so as we, you know, as the they all kind of flew back home, We decided, hey. Look.

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:15:28]:
This this has a lot of merit, a lot of legs. Let's continue to work on it. So for the next year and a half, we all kind of did the evening evenings and weekends, garages, coffee shops, and got together and and started to to build out the product into the point where I end up, so I my wife was in school as, for for nursing. This is all in 2013. My wife's in school for nursing. I had 2 boys in college, and I decided I was the only income source for the house. I decided I was gonna quit my job in the waste industry and saw a software company, not knowing a dang thing about software. So luckily for me, some of some of the the cofounders ended up jumping with me and so, you know, the kind of the rest is history.

Jeffrey Stern [00:16:11]:
Wow. That's an amazing story. A few threads that I wanna pull on there. You you mentioned from a a timing perspective when maybe you first had the idea, you recognized the industry wasn't ready, and it took a few years for for it to come around. What changed in the industry to get them more comfortable with a collaborative software and a collaborative philosophy?

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:16:34]:
Yeah. So it was you know, if you can think back to the early 2000, I think my name might have been more than that. I'm not sure if you're aware of how old you are, but, when you think back to the early 2000, the idea of kind of a web presence was still fairly new. And so, you know, when you think about things like travel, right, if you were gonna visit, you know, go to Florida on vacation, right, you would go to a holidayin.com and see if they have rooms and how much money it's gonna be. Then you go over that Marriott. And so you got all these, like, various sources of information. But, you know, as the years went on, things like Priceline and Expedia and all these other things where you can just go to this one site and they're pulling in all this various components of information and they're offering it and bringing visibility, you know, those those things began to transpire. So when when we decided to to launch waste bits and kinda go with the the the plan of attack that we had originally thought of, we at least had things to point to and examples to use for the industry and say, look.

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:17:41]:
You know, we give that the the hotel as an example. Right? Or the fact that, you know, you could you can go on to Google and you can do research and find all the restaurants or things like Yelp and like so so other technology help us explain the opportunity that exists in the space to allow us to be in good traction.

Jeffrey Stern [00:18:00]:
Got it. That that does make a lot of sense. Just kind of the parallels in in other industries and just the general trajectory of the world at that point.

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:18:09]:
Yep. For sure. And so that I mean, that's honestly one of the the areas that we're, you know, we're still kind of the only people doing what we're doing in our space. And so everything we do, we have to greenfield from idea to concept to to product market set. It's like we don't have you know, a lot of times, you know, people people think about competition as a negative. I honestly think competition is great, for for a a number of reasons. But with that said, you know, one of the biggest things for kind of the the early adopters is, you know, it allows the market to to understand that, you know, there's other people doing similar things and there you have things that you can begin to to work off of the similarities. And and for us, everything that we do, we we have to to kinda think outside of the box, and we borrow technology from other industries and try and pull in and use those as examples to try and move the industry forward.

Jeffrey Stern [00:19:04]:
Yeah. So so when you're on the the startup bus asking this question, what if waste profiling, waste categorization was made easier? First off, just for my own edification, what is waste profiling and and waste categorization? But then also, like, what is the vision that you're painting at that point for the company?

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:19:23]:
Yeah. So so waste characterization or you'll hear them call waste profiles. What it is is for the regulated industry, the producer of the waste, the generator has to explain in detail, like, the waste that they're gonna send for disposal. So if you think about, you know, things like, I'll call it paint waste. Right? So even at home, you you you're painting with a solvent based product. You you put the paint on your wall, then you have, like, an acetone. You know, various chemicals you use to, like, clean up your brushes and and do different things. So when people send waste off-site, they have to, at an ingredient level, tell the disposal company what's in it.

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:20:06]:
And they do that for a number of reasons. Number 1 is health and safety. Right? So they need to make sure that they can safely process it. The second thing is they have to make sure that they're permitted to actually take it. And so, you know, the the federal EPA will, you know, work with the company and It's okay. Based on your capabilities, you're approved to take these particular waste streams or these particular chemicals. So a profile or a characterization, probably the the most descriptive thing that I can use that people can generally wrap their head around, It it's it's like a recipe. Right? If you're gonna make a cake, you start with a recipe and it says put, you know, one cup of this, one teaspoon of that.

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:20:45]:
That's what a waste characterization or waste profile is for waste. So it's like a recipe in reverse where they're they're telling them exactly what's in it, how was it used, what was the process, you know, the and how much they have and and how are they gonna package it. You know, so it it it kinda describes the transaction and what they're gonna be receiving in advance. And then the waste company will take that. They look at it. They're gonna do, you know, they'll they'll probably do some laboratory analysis. They're gonna ask for safety data sheets, and then they're gonna make a determination. Yes.

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:21:18]:
I can take this or no. I can't. And then once they render that decision, then they communicate

Jeffrey Stern [00:21:23]:
it. When you're thinking about waste categorization as a as a problem space coming out of out of this bus and and thinking about it from an MVP perspective, what was the offering to to the market?

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:21:35]:
Thinking back to kind of my original statement about the the lack of transparency and the lack of reporting is the industry itself, the waste companies really kind of enjoy the fact that there's this black box wherein people won't really know how much is moving through where and what and when. But with that said, you know, thinking back to to, you know, my hotel examples from the early 2000, the way the industry works is if you're a business and you want to, for instance, get a competitive quote on your paint waste and you have 3 companies in the area that you wanna get a proposal from, you have to go through the exact same process 3 different times. So you have to fill out this waste characterization for company a. You have to go do all the analytical and all the stuff they want you to do. You have to go through and you have to do the exact same thing with company b, and then you have to go through the same thing for the company c. And all you're really trying to do is just get a price. And so, you know, in in our environment, we said, look. We we will do it one time.

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:22:43]:
We will then offer this opportunity to all 3 locations who then can make a pricing decision. And once they made the pricing decision, then the transaction can come through the through the the infrastructure, and they they can they can, you know, get additional information on the the amount of waste and the transactions once, like, they've already provided the pricing, and they know they're gonna do the business.

Jeffrey Stern [00:23:09]:
You mentioned kind of in the parallel industries, this is kind of the trajectory of of collaboration and and transparency. But you also mentioned that within the industry, that the companies themselves maybe are holding on to this opacity in the process that there is a black box. So so how do you go about, you know, with the the product that that you've developed selling to them and kind of working through this behavioral change required to relinquish, you know, what they might think of as proprietary or or something that they wanna protect and make it transparent?

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:23:40]:
Yeah. So it it it really depends on where the transaction starts. Right? So so, you know, sometimes our client, our customer is the waste company. And, you know, at the end of the day, our software is really just their back end operating system that's been privately branded for their use. Right? So that transaction looks differently if that is the situation. If the generator or the the waste service provider is our customer, then, right, we we try and act on their behalf. Right? So the the industry as a whole, you know, the the technologies that they're using, I as I mentioned before. Right? So first off, there there's a lot of different technologies that's out there, but there really hasn't been any any software company that's that's really tried to advance in this particular market because they you know, for a for a number of reasons, but primarily, it's, you know, people don't feel like it's it's a big enough space.

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:24:39]:
It's so niche that everybody, like, they don't understand the opportunity that exists because they don't understand the market. Right? And so, you know, the the area that we're playing today, we're in the early innings of the ballgame. Right? There there's a lot of there's a lot of lot of areas for us to move and improve. But at the end of the day, we're really focused on making sure that our customer and their customers have a great experience. Right? And so, you know, if if they don't wanna share this information with their their customer, that's that's up to them. Right? For us, right, where where our customer might be, for instance, a waste generator. Right? We can we can really work to to help improve their efficiency. But, you know, it it just kind of depends which which which side of the the fence we're playing on that particular situation.

Jeffrey Stern [00:25:31]:
Yeah. Looking a little bit into the future, you know, projecting out to the 9th inning rather than the early innings,

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:25:37]:
how do

Jeffrey Stern [00:25:37]:
you see the this all kind of playing out? What's what's kind of the the grander vision for the work you're doing here at Waste BITS?

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:25:44]:
Ultimately, I see there being an opportunity for us to begin to to really impact you may have heard these terms like circular economy, extended producer responsibility of some of the new stuff coming out where manufacturers are gonna be responsible for their products even post consumption. Well, because of how we collect the information and the way we get it at a very granular level about what makes up a particular waste stream. So a waste stream would be a combination of a bunch of different things, but because we understand the waste at an ingredient level, we believe that there's an opportunity for us to play in the circular economy model where we begin to offer materials that had previously been destined for landfill and for disposal, reintroducing it back into the supply chain up on the front side of of the manufacturing process and helped, to ultimately reduce the reliance on our natural resources.

Jeffrey Stern [00:26:46]:
So, you know, kinda working back in time from 2012, 2014 when when you're on the bus to, you know, kind of the the vision there and just kind of where where where are we today and and what's kind of the delta between where you would like to be and and where waste bits is today in terms of product offerings, traction in the market, things of that nature?

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:27:08]:
So I've I've been in the space a very, very long time. I have a lot of really good relationships with each of the stakeholders and and the various levels of their organization and companies. The waste disposal industry, the recycling industry itself, they're very resistant to change very resistant to change. In fact, we we had a a customer who has has told us all the fantastic things our technology has done for their companies, including reducing the order to cash by by over 80%, tell us that they're considering going back to an Excel spreadsheet and a PDF. Like, completely down with the technology. And you wonder, like, why. Right? So is there you know, how do how do you feel you know, for me, I was like, how do you feel like your customers are gonna, like, respond to that? Right? Especially as if others continue to advance in the space. And so, we're we're dealing with an industry that is very, very resistant to change.

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:28:12]:
They they do wanna protect their customer base and their their their margins and the things that are important to them, which I certainly understand. But, you know, ultimately, I'm not sure that the the ultimate goals of the of the waste generators, you you you if you start researching the the big, like, generators of waste, they're talking about greenhouse gas emissions and and circular economy and sustainability, and they all have these goals in in their corporate missions. And the the vendors don't really seem to align with that really well many times. And so there's there's parts of their companies that do, but, you know, for one reason or another, they haven't they haven't put the the 2 pegs together. I don't make sense to me, but, you know, ultimately, you know, if you, if you think kinda what our original vision was to to where we're going, I would tell you that we've served enough time in the space to prove that we're a viable company. We have a great brand in the industry. It's a it's a pretty well known brand at this point. You know, we have our product has been used by about 85,000 manufacturing or waste generated locations across North America, since we've started.

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:29:32]:
That's a lot. And so those people tend to move around a lot various jobs. And so, you know, when when when we begin to launch, you know, additional products to help support our ultimate vision and goal, ultimately, it's our hope that, you know, the the waste companies will continue to embrace us. The the the generators will continue to to see the value in what we're producing, and then the the service providers, will gain from all the efficiencies that we're able to to to drive forward by implementing technology in this in the solution.

Jeffrey Stern [00:30:04]:
Now what what you said earlier in the conversation about how you view kind of competition as probably a good thing for you in this case. I think that makes a lot more sense now. If the customer is often asking, like, well, maybe our alternative is Excel in a PDF.

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:30:20]:
Well, that's, you know, like I said, this is a customer that's, like, have seen all the benefits of of what technology can bring them. And they're like, you know, maybe maybe we just go back to to an old PDF and emailing it around. I was like, okay. You know, I'm not sure I'm not sure how their customers are gonna feel and, you know, ultimately, their their customers will will be the voice. But, you know, it's it's an industry in interesting space and that, you know, as many years and and tenured I have spent in this industry, the demographics have have began to change and change substantially. So it it was primarily, you know, I I would say the average tenure for the the people in the waste industry, like on the post collection side of the business that I deal with, they're in the high twenties to 30 years.

Jeffrey Stern [00:31:11]:
Oh, wow.

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:31:11]:
And so, you know, I I would have guessed, you know, if somebody would've asked me a question, you know, where where do you think the demographics are? I I would say this is a 80, 85%, 50 year old plus male would would be driving this industry. And and our our demographics are actually kinda interesting. They're they're really surprising. We we ran a a study of our users of all of our platform, and we use the age group of 20 to 35, 35 to 50, and 50 plus. It was literally a 3rd, a 3rd, a 3rd. So we're we're seeing the industry begin. The the democrats begin to spend out. And then the other the other thing was that, you know, the the male to female was was 61% male, 39% female.

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:31:54]:
Right. So so we're beginning to get some diversity in this space. And, you know, I think as as the, the different generational gaps begin to fill in, you know, I think the customers are going to speak the loudest. Right? And it's like I can tell you this. I have 22 sons that are actually in this industry as well, in their in their their, mid to upper twenties. They're not gonna fill out no PDF form and email it back and forth or anything. They wanna click click click on the phone and send them a send them a link. You know? It's like you you gotta make it simple.

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:32:28]:
You gotta make it efficient.

Jeffrey Stern [00:32:30]:
Right.

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:32:30]:
We're we're having a lot of fun drive driving the industry forward, but it's, you know, like I said, there there's challenges and and rewards. Right? We're hoping to to to see more rewards than challenge.

Jeffrey Stern [00:32:40]:
And then part of it, it sounds like, is just playing the long game. Right? Like, setting the infrastructure, getting the company in a position to to survive long enough to realize the change in the industry.

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:32:51]:
Yeah. And you're right. You're right. Right? So, you know, I'm sure the the Ubers, the Lyfts, you know, I think the best thing that happened to Uber was Lyft coming in, right, or another car service. Yeah. But, you know, think about when they fought the the taxi industry and the transportation side of the business and what Airbnb has gone through in the in the lodging and hotel space, you know, and now you have VRBO and even Grubhub and, like, on the the food and beverage. Right? They've they've all fought this. But you're right.

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:33:19]:
Right? You you you gotta be in it for the for the long haul. You gotta you gotta prove that that you're you're not gonna disappear, especially in the space in the industry that we're in because this is, you know, regulatory and and safety. And, you know, they the the company is doing business with they need to make sure that you're gonna be around. And so, you know, here here we are. We we launched originally in 2012. We're going on our our 9th 9th, 10th year, right, originally, and we first launched our product in 2014. So and our product's been in the market for for quite some time as well. So, you know, I I think we've we've proven that we're gonna be here and and we continue to to be stubborn and stay our course.

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:33:59]:
And and, you know, ultimately, we're hoping we can impact the market as we expect here in the next few years.

Jeffrey Stern [00:34:08]:
Yeah. And how in the early days was was the company financed? Was it just kind of to market it immediately or

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:34:16]:
So that's even better story. So, one of the the person you spoke with, I I listened to this podcast was Todd Federman over at, North Coast Angels. You know, when I when I met with them, I said, you know, when they asked me this question, I was like, you know, this is gonna be probably the best, like, use case and class case like that that, you know entrepreneurs growing up are gonna be able to study because how how we finance our company originally is I had because of my my past roles and experience, I had a relationship with a with a large manufacturer in Northeast Ohio, and we launched a facility services company, which included, like, janitorial and inventory management. And, basically, we we we did facilities management for this company, and we took all the profits for that other business and used it to finance the people that were working here. And so, you know, it was very It was another business that had nothing to do with software, but it was non dilutive financing and funding. And so that that's how we started. And so, you know, bringing the the North Coast Angels when when we walked when we went through the the the process with them, one of the one of the steps that you would go through is they'll bring in, you know, 5 or 6 other business owners and you sit at a round table and you talk through them. And boy, was I right? Like, half of them was on the side of, hey, that's brilliant.

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:35:38]:
Like, this is amazing. Like, you can't do this. The other half is like, that has gotta be, like, so disruptive to to, like, your business. Why would you do those things? And, like, they were sitting there between themselves having discussion. It was it was a great discussion, but, ultimately, that's what we did. We we we launched another business to fund ourself, and then, ultimately, as we continue to grow the company, then, we, we worked with, a gentleman. His name is Bill Mande. He, has a a fund down in Akron right now called the Akron Fusion Fund, but he helped us, at the time raise some some, funding from some angels down in the the Akron, in Northeast Ohio market.

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:36:19]:
And we've kinda continued down that path over the over the years. So we we didn't do the the large round. We've we've kinda only only taken what we've needed and kind of scrapped for the rest.

Jeffrey Stern [00:36:33]:
Yeah. That's incredible. Is that initial funding business still in operations in parallel with waste beds?

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:36:40]:
No. No. We actually, so, you know, there was a lot of discussion about, you know, do we sell it, close it? How do we get out of this thing? And, you know, it it got forced. So the the facility that we were working in actually had a major fire, and, they they shut down operations for for 18 months. And during that time, we just chose not to not to restart it. So, you know, we we you know, it was good. Right? We we for years, we had talked about, hey. We need to to be very focused on this, and this can be a distraction.

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:37:14]:
But, you know, we had a we had a lot of great leadership out at the the location. And so it really wasn't that distracting, honestly.

Jeffrey Stern [00:37:22]:
Got it. Still an incredible story though.

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:37:25]:
Yeah. I'd say, you know, one of those lessons learned. If I had to do things a little bit differently, I I would. I I think I I learned a little bit about how how I've done it, like, moving forward, but, you know, it is what it is. We we all learn.

Jeffrey Stern [00:37:37]:
What are some of those lessons?

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:37:39]:
Well, so, I mean, as a separate business that has nothing to do software. Right? It's a janitorial and facility services company. You know, the the reality is it was something that that, you know, I had a I brought to the table. You know, I probably would have just left it as a separate business altogether, and then I would have funded the company for for the growth. Is probably how I would have done it rather than just putting it in and then, you know, commingling the financials and p and l's and things of that nature. It created a lot of challenges for for the the investors. They were looking to, you know, do do diligence on on the company and make decisions because they they couldn't separate what part of our expenses were directly related to, you know, which business. And so, you know, ultimately, we're able to just just separate them, like, as best we could.

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:38:28]:
But, you know, it always you know, we always have to answer the question. Like, hey. What's this other company over here? Like, what's this industrial services thing? What does that have to do with software and waste bits? Well, it has nothing to do with it. Right? So I I would have left it separate. Long story short, I would have left it separate, and I just would have used the I would I would have invested the profits out of that in the in the waste of it to grow it.

Jeffrey Stern [00:38:50]:
Got it. I am curious with the just kind of the depth of experience you have in the industry. What what are, like, some of the things that you wish people outside of the industry knew about it that you find yourself explaining a lot or or wish people were just more aware of?

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:39:08]:
I think that the complexity of the industry itself and the the knowledge that you have to to have in order to be, not only successful, efficient in this space. So as an example, there's over 4,000 different triggers that will make a waste hazardous or nonhazardous waste or regulated or something special would be done, of which you can only test for about 440 of those things. The rest of you just gotta know. And so, you know, there there is a lot of tribal knowledge, which is part of the part of the issue that we're trying to solve. There's a lot of tribal knowledge that lives in this space, and it it's it's it's not as easy as just pushing your candidate into the street and magically disappears. I I would tell you at a high level and more from a social perspective, it is very easy to to sit on the sidelines and point the fingers at at the the operators in the space and, you know, talk about things like, you know, you're you're contaminating the the the you're contaminating, you know, our environment, like, things are smelly and white. They're like, it's it's not a clean industry, and it's not a clean space. But, you know, yet the the same people that are having those complaints are still pushing their hand at the end of the the street every day or every every week.

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:40:31]:
Right? Nobody nobody wants to do anything about it. Right? And so, you know, I I would I would say to to really, you know, for for those that that wanna have compassionate and and feel the need to to make a change in this particular environment, like, particularly in the recycling space, to become more knowledgeable about what they need to do to impact it. Because, honestly, the the the best way to recycle is to reduce use. They quit using cardboard cups, quit using, you know, plastic containers, use things that are reusable. Right? You use glass. You use wash them. Right? I know it's a little bit of a extra pain, but, you know, you you switching from a card from a from a, you know, styrofoam coffee cup to a plastic or a paper cup, you're really not doing anything. You're still putting in the same place.

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:41:22]:
Right? All the other things still have to take effect. Right? So I would say that, you know, for for people that really wanna have a better understanding to understand what what can they do to to, like, impact it in a positive nature.

Jeffrey Stern [00:41:36]:
Are you optimistic about the the prospects for that?

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:41:41]:
No. Not at all. Because, you know, we we live in a world we live in a world where convenience is more important than the mission in many times. Right? So, you know, people people want to do the right thing until, you know, one of 2 things happen. It costs you more money where it begins to inconvenience them. Right? And so, you know, in the in the industry, I always said, you know, people, these big companies, they all wanna recycle. Everybody wants to recycle. Right? That's one of the things.

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:42:11]:
Like, we wanna recycle and eliminate the stuff until they find out it cost them more money, and then they're okay when filling it again. Right? It's like it's one of those 2 things. Like I said, it it's either, you know, cost or convenience. And so I I'm not super optimistic until we have until we have a society where people are willing to to put in a little bit extra work to do the right thing. I know that's harsh, but that's that's how that's how I feel.

Jeffrey Stern [00:42:35]:
No. I I appreciate the the candor there. Yeah. So before we we kinda wrap up, I I'm I feel like there may just be more fun stories that you have about WaySpits that I haven't gotten at yet. So I'm curious if there's just anything that comes to mind that you wanna share about the the journey or or, you know, building of the company so far before we we kinda wind down.

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:42:57]:
Yeah. So I would tell you this. While I have worked for, you know, these other companies and most of them are the big large, you know, big large fortune 5 100, fortune 100, I was always in the entrepreneurial side of the business. I mean, I I worked for the largest waste company in the industry and launched, like, companies inside of theirs. Right? I launched a hazardous waste broker division inside of the largest waste like, the largest garbage company there is. Right? And was very successful at it. I I guess I didn't realize, like, how how much easier that is when you have that branding and the the the funding to do it. Right? The funding, the time, the support.

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:43:42]:
When you can jump off and do it yourself, you become very lonely. Right? You become very lonely in this space and you quickly realize that, you know, all of the things that you didn't have to worry about with these larger companies, that now are all, like, landing around your shoulders. Right? And so, you know, the the story, you know, I I started telling the story about me coming home and telling my wife I was gonna, you know, quit my job in the waste industry and soft open a software company. And like I said, she's she's she's in college. My 2 sons are in college, and, you know, I have a I have a daughter at home. And she's like, well, that's great. Well, what do you know about software? It's like, well, I don't know anything. I I don't know anything at all, but, you know, I I know that we have a good group of cofounders out there that will support what we're doing.

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:44:27]:
And and so, you know, the the original group of those those, you know, cofounders, was Scott Meyer. I don't know if you know any of these folks. Scott Meyer, Chris Layko, Doug Yoder, Dan Capri, Ray Lewis were kind of the the the primary group that that originally started. And then, you know, at this point, the only one still working in the company with me is Doug Yoder. Everybody else has, you know, continue to to chase down their their own, their own startups and their their own, visions and heck raise over in Europe right now. So, you know, everybody's done done a fantastic job, but more importantly, I I couldn't I I wouldn't be here sort of if it wasn't for that original group and that that grit. And so I I would tell you that as I did this journey, you know, I went to a lot of startup events and and conferences and things of that nature. And, you know, there there's there's clearly different groups of people.

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:45:25]:
Right? There's the people that sit on the sidelines and talk about what they wanna do and what they wish they could do. And then there's the people that just say, you know what? I'm just gonna do it. I'm gonna jump in until I have a a special place in my heart for for those that have that grit that's like, you know what? We'll we'll figure it out. Right? Because it is not, by any means, it is not the easiest job at all. Right? This, you know, the the the the stories of, you know, working for companies and having them close and not getting paid and, you know, all those things are very, very real. Right? It's a very high risk position, to to be in. And so those that live in the space, I know I'm kinda speaking to the choir, but I didn't know to the extent. Right? So I I'm not sure that at the same time, I'm not sure I could ever go back and work for a company again.

Jeffrey Stern [00:46:11]:
I, I

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:46:12]:
I I I I I've drank the Kool Aid. I I kinda love the grind and get to enjoy to meet a lot of really nice and cool people.

Jeffrey Stern [00:46:21]:
Yeah. No. That that all resonates very, very much. Yeah. Well, you know, our our closing question for for everyone on is, we're painting a collage here, and not necessarily people's favorite things in in Cleveland and the surrounding area, but of things that other people may not necessarily know about, the hidden gems. And so with that, you know, what what are some of your your hidden gems in the area?

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:46:48]:
Yeah. So that's a good question. So, 1st and foremost, I'm gonna start with the the whole Guardian thing. Right? The New Cleveland Guardians. I had no idea that that like, on that bridge, like, those, like, 2 Guardian sculpture things for there. I had no idea. I've lived here my entire life. I had no idea until they said that.

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:47:04]:
And I was like, oh, I guess it it has been there for a long time. So, you know, that that that obviously is now a a new focal point in gem. But, you know, honestly, like, if you talk about, like, places to go or place to see, like, the park systems around Northeast Ohio are just flat amazing. Like, the the most beautiful places you can go and, you know, hopefully, people get the time. The the towpath, being able to do the like, the Ohio area, trail. I have a couple friends that map the whole thing all the way from Cincinnati all the way up to Cleveland. So I rode the bikes all the way up, which is was pretty cool. You know, down in the the the, you know, Akron, Hertel area, You know, I don't know how much how much time people get to go down in Amish country.

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:47:44]:
Right? But all Hertel has some really cool places. Honestly, like, my hidden gems and I I get the chance because all the travel that I do and all the people that I I get to to meet. The hidden gem that I always talk about in in Ohio and primarily Cleveland and Akron are the people. Spending time with the people in that area, the the people in the Cleveland, Ohio market, you you won't find a more, you know, loyal, hardworking group of people and that that so, you know, generally try and support each other anywhere. You know, I I can tell you I I've lived in a lot of places in the US. I've, you know, spent the last 20 years of my career, you know, on airplanes and in hotels. And I've never in my life seen people like what's in the the the Cleveland Northeast Ohio area. It's it's something to be something to be very proud about.

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:48:36]:
And, you know, unfortunately, you know, the the southern states always get the, the heck. I was in South Carolina at one point, and there was a billboard that says, go back to Ohio. There was a billboard on the side of the road. It was like, go back to Ohio. Right? But down down in the south, it's like, you know, is there anybody left in Ohio? And it's like, yeah, man. There's a ton of people left in Ohio. Like, you know, I'm just like, hey. Don't feel like we're picking on you.

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:48:59]:
We go everywhere. But, you know, at the end of the day, like, you won't find a nicer group of people. You won't find a group of people that that, you know, I I I enjoy living there. They're they're very, proud of the the the area where they've grown up. There's a lot of great things from cost of living to honestly, that that's my hidden gem that, you know, people people need to be a little bit more proud about where they're from. And and I know we we talk about it, like, amongst ourselves. But you know what? In a way, it it's good to get the word out, but you know what? Maybe we don't want all those people coming to Ohio.

Jeffrey Stern [00:49:34]:
Yeah. Well, though, we got dozens of listeners here, so don't don't worry too much about it.

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:49:40]:
Very good.

Jeffrey Stern [00:49:41]:
No. That's a that's a lovely place to to wrap it up here. I I really appreciate, Dan, you you coming on and and taking the time and sharing what's what's been an amazing story so far. So thank you very much. Jason Brett (zero

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:49:51]:
zero six:fifty seven): Thanks, everybody. Certainly appreciate it. Jason Brett (zero zero six:fifty seven): Yeah,

Jeffrey Stern [00:49:54]:
of course. If folks have anything they'd like to to follow-up with you about, where is the, the best place for them to reach you?

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:50:01]:
Best way is probably email. Right? Ddcollins@wastebits.com. I'm one of those proud guys that, like, literally can't stand if I have a red bubble on the on the dot. So I can find that. You email me. I'll respond. I I can't have a I can't have a number. I can't have a red bubble on my on my email account.

Jeffrey Stern [00:50:19]:
I'm with you there. Well, Dan, thanks again. Really appreciate it.

Dan Collins (Wastebits) [00:50:24]:
Yeah. Thanks, Jeff.

Jeffrey Stern [00:50:26]:
That's all for this week. Thank you for listening. We'd love to hear your thoughts on today's show. So if you have any feedback, please send over an email to jeffrey@layoftheland.fm, or find us on Twitter at podlayofthelandor@sternjefe, j e f e. If you or someone you know would make a good guest for our show, please reach out as well and let us know. And if you enjoy the podcast, please subscribe and leave a review on iTunes or on your preferred podcast player. Your support goes a long way to help us spread the word and continue to bring the Cleveland founders and builders we love having on the show. We'll be back here next week at the same time to map more of the land.