#68: Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures)

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Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:00:00]:
We determined that there was movies out there that needed a home, that were willing to embrace what we thought was cutting edge, independent film distribution that was digital. And we are willing to put the work in to to go, you know, find homes for those films.

Jeffrey Stern [00:00:16]:
Let's discover the Cleveland entrepreneurial ecosystem. We are telling the stories of its entrepreneurs and those supporting them. Welcome to the Lay of the Land podcast where we are exploring what people are building in Cleveland. I am your host, Jeffrey Stern. And today, I had the pleasure of speaking with Nolan Gallagher of Gravitas Ventures. Nolan is the founder and CEO of Gravitas, which he founded back in 2006. And under Nolan's leadership, Gravitas has become a global all rights theatrical distribution company that has released more than 3,000 films on video on demand and has since been acquired by Anthem Sports and Entertainment in 2021. Through its relationship with over 200 audience facing customers, Gravitas can distribute a film into over 100,000,000 homes in North America and over 1,000,000,000 homes worldwide.

Jeffrey Stern [00:01:12]:
Nolan, who was born here in Cleveland and ultimately brought gravitas back to Cleveland from the West Coast, has been named a Hollywood new leader by Variety and was chosen as part of the inaugural IndieWire influencer class, which recognized leaders in the independent film industry. Nolan has spoken on numerous industry panels, including the Toronto International Film Festival, South by Southwest Film Festival, and the Produced by Conference. Previously, Nolan worked in corporate marketing roles at industry leaders, like Comcast, Warner Brothers, and General Cinema Theaters. This was a a fascinating conversation covering the business of entertainment and Nolan's journey building gravitas into the pivotal distributor that it is today. Please enjoy my conversation with Nolan Gallagher. Nolan, thank you very much for for coming on today. I'd love to start, you know, if you could just tell us a little bit about yourself, the the arc of your career, and and, you know, what what drew you to the world of of film?

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:02:20]:
Yeah. Sure, Jeffrey. It's great to be on the lay of the land podcast. I grew up in Cleveland on the west side in Lakewood, and I grew up a massive movie fan. I I I was a movie and a and a sports fan here in town, continue to be both. But growing up, you know, I would fight my father for for for the sports page, of the the Cleveland Plain Dealer every single day of the week, except for Tuesdays. On Tuesdays, I always wanted the arts and entertainment section first. And I would pull out the arts and entertainment section, and I would look at what was the top 10 grossing movies at the movie theaters weekend before.

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:02:58]:
And, and I would chart them, and I would see if my favorite movies were doing well week after week. And I was very excited by that. I had a huge passion for that. There's no one in my industry or, excuse me, my family who's into the the entertainment business. My mom was nice enough to drop me off at Westgate or the Westwood Mall General Cinema and and watch multiple movies a day. But but I got so excited charting, you know, how a film would perform in in movie theaters. And and this was very strange behavior for a 9 year old child. But I took the same amount of passion for movie grosses that I did when I was collecting baseball cards or basketball cards.

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:03:34]:
I just kinda, like, loved looking at the numbers and became really a fan of of Hollywood, but also a fan of show business because it's both. It's fantastic stories as well as there's a business side to it. I parlayed that enthusiasm ultimately, when I went to college. I went to Boston College in Massachusetts, and it just so happens that the corporate office of a company called General Cinema Theatres, where I used to go as a kid, was right next door to to my college campus. And I was fortunate to get my my foot in the door in the entertainment industry as an intern there, and then ultimately as a full time employee. My job there, as a 22 year old, I couldn't have been more thrilled. I got to watch movies before they were out. There are people called film buyers, watch a movie 3 or 4 weeks before it shows up in different mega plexus around the world, and they determine if the movie's good and whether or not it should play in in how many theaters in in a in a circuit.

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:04:32]:
I was able to to sit in and and view that process. But my job was to sell advertising. And and so I I I sold advertising before a movie starts, before the trailers started. I sold advertising on popcorn bags. And and I really just work with the major studios, see if they would do, you know, promotions, within our movie theaters. It was a great foot in the door. I loved what I was doing. It really, you know, galvanized me to wanna stay in the industry.

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:04:59]:
And, ultimately, I followed my boss to a company called Comcast in Philadelphia. And and and Comcast is the, you know, largest cable operator, North America. They also own, you know, NBC Universal. And, my job then, this is 2003, was to work again with the major Hollywood movie studios. This time, it wasn't selling advertising on popcorn bags. It was trying to convince them to spend studio marketing dollars to promote service that was brand new called the video on demand. And this is essentially renting a movie with a remote control for $5 at a time where we're still going to Blockbuster. DVDs were the thing, you're renting at Block Buster.

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:05:47]:
You were buying them on Tuesday at Walmart and Best Buy. And other than the odd person who might do rent a movie in a hotel room, video on demand wasn't really a thing. Netflix was still sending movies around in red envelopes. Oh, hadn't been invented. Amazon Prime hadn't been invented, and and Apple was just barely starting to sell music. And so I sat there in Philadelphia, and, I thought it was really cool that that you could rent 200 movies, mostly Hollywood movies, at the touch of a button with your remote control. And it was there that a light bulb, the proverbial entrepreneur's light bulb went off. I had read somewhere that 10,000 people made movies every year, and they applied to Sundance, which is the preeminent American film festival that occurs in Utah in January.

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:06:37]:
And I thought to myself, well, there's, like, 10,000 movies made every year. When I go on my Comcast, which is in 20,000,000 homes, there's only, like, 200 movies available. What happens to all those other movies if they're not getting up on Comcast? And that's why I thought to myself, well, you know, maybe, you know, there's there's there's a path forward as an entrepreneur. I was just at the right place at the right time. I had access to data. It showed that, like, people were really renting these movies. I remember watching, and seeing the results of Jack Black's film, The School of Rock, And there was a lot of people who rented that movie. And and I said to myself, I gotta find a way to do this.

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:07:16]:
And what I ended up doing is I I moved to Los Angeles. Really didn't know anyone what whatsoever, but I'd always wanted to live in Los Angeles. I ended up getting my MBA from the University of Southern California during the day, and and and sort of on the nights and on the weekends and in my free time, I I launched Gravitas. I launched Gravitas same way that a lot of independent filmmakers make their movies on maxed out credit cards, with a laptop, a cell phone. I was working from a poker table. I was not funded in in any way whatsoever, but I had to use my smarts, my guile, my time, and my effort to try to get Gravitas off the ground.

Jeffrey Stern [00:07:58]:
And what what was that original vision that you had for Gravitas? Right? I I understand really the clairvoyance you had around the what would become the proliferation of of video on demand. But what how do you kind of take that idea as a concept and work towards the business opportunity through Gravitas?

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:08:17]:
Sure. Yeah. Like like like many entrepreneurs, you know, I wrote a business plan. And and I've gotten my MBA in in entrepreneurship, and I I, you know, written as a 120 page, business plan over the course of 6 months of about how Gravitas was going to, you know, play a a meaningful part in in in video on demand. And at the time, I thought to myself, oh, well, this is this is great. I'll find 8 movies a year, and it'll it'll just be me. And I will live in sunny Manhattan Beach, California. And and there'll be plenty of time to sort of, you know, pick my my heels up, enjoy the surf.

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:08:56]:
I just gotta find 8 movies. Well well, as many entrepreneurs know, often time, the the business plan is is is really just the starting point and and that your businesses go off in many different directions. And and I quickly realized that that my my dream of what what I would call a lifestyle business as an individual was not practical. 3, 4 years later, after launching the company in in 2,006, we were churning out 300 movies a year. We were looking at 1,000 every year and we continue to look at probably 3,000 movies every year. But we determined that our path was to work on 300 movies a year, and there was 4 of us in the company at the time. And and to put that into perspective, you know, our our comp our competitors, you know, might work on 30 movies a year, but with 90 people. But what we determined that there was movies out there that needed a home, that were willing to embrace what we thought was cutting edge, independent film distribution that was digital.

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:10:01]:
We are willing to put the work in to to go, you know, find homes for those films.

Jeffrey Stern [00:10:07]:
And in those earliest days, you know, before you get to the the volume of of 300, you know, we'll we'll get to 3,000, I think, as we make our way chronologically

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:10:16]:
through

Jeffrey Stern [00:10:17]:
the story here. But what what do you look back in retrospect as as Gravitas' first break? Like, how how do you actually go about becoming a distributor?

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:10:27]:
There was 2 breaks, I I would say. The the first break was, you know, I I was sort of out there looking for films, finished films. And I had the good fortune while I was working at Comcast and while I was at business school to develop a relationship with, the largest movie studio in the world called Warner Brothers. And I had interned for them. I I had continued to keep in touch with them while I was in business school. And ultimately, I I pitched to them the idea, you know, that I could start this company going out and essentially forcing content for them, and and they were nice enough to to take a chance on a on a very underfunded or nonfunded individual working from his poker table. But that was a huge break. It gave me a lot of credibility when I would go and talk to filmmakers and say, hey, largest movie studio in the world is is willing to actually read my emails and potentially, you know, license a movie from a start up.

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:11:24]:
And and the first movie that that we got was, a documentary called The Secret. It's based on a best selling book by, an author named Rhonda Byrne. And it's about the law of attraction. And and it's all about essentially, if you think good thoughts and and you have a plan, you know, the things can happen to you. I think I probably called or emailed 9 or 10 times to eventually get a hold of someone down in in sort of, you know, New Zealand, Australia who who could talk to me about a documentary that was a companion piece to a book that had sold 30 odd 1000000 copies, had been featured twice, on Oprah's Club at the time. And that was a big break. When we eventually secured certain rights to distribute the documentary, I was able to present the film to Warner Brothers, and then, you know, they did the amazing work that the largest movie studio in the world can do as far as, you know, sharing the film with over a 100,000,000, you know, homes. And it really allowed us to, you know, capitalize Gravitas.

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:12:32]:
I I'd run up, you know, 5 or 6 credit cards. And I was kind of, you know, maxed out if you will. And and and when that film finally came through, you know, it allowed me not only to to pay off the debt that I had put on the company, but also led to the second and and by far most long term break that that I had. And that was, a very close friend, named Michael Murphy joined Gravitas in 2007. Michael and I had gone to school together at Saint Ignatius here in Cleveland. We had studied abroad together at the University College Galway in Ireland. Michael, after college, went off to law school. He served, in the army.

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:13:14]:
He had done poor in in in Iraq, and and was working as in the office of the judge advocate general in Washington DC. And, you know, he was at a a point in his life where he was looking at at different career options. And and and I did my best to pitch him on an extremely nascent low revenue company called Gravitas Ventures. And he was kind enough to to to drive to to California. And, you know, we we worked out of our kitchen for for for many years, but now we've been together for for 15 years and and continue to, you know, release films and and and shape, you know, the future of independent films together.

Jeffrey Stern [00:13:51]:
In those earliest days, was the perception that what you were, you know, working towards with video on demand, like, did did people look at you kind of, you know, that you're crazy? Or did people, were were people aligned that this is the way the world is going at that point?

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:14:09]:
I would say there was an, a very healthy skepticism around video on demand. Because, like, freeze video on demand had been talked about for many, many years. When you actually get down to business in in Hollywood and you're talking to producers and you're talking to financiers, it's like show me the money. Like and and what that means is, like, either pay me 100 of 1,000 of dollars or or 1,000,000 of dollars for my movie. And I have spent 100 of 1,000 of dollars or 1,000,000 of dollars filming. And and that's really where the rubber meets the road. And, again, I didn't have any money. And, you know, it took us 7 or 8 years before we actually, like, bought a movie.

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:14:52]:
And and that first movie we we bought was for $50,000, out of the Sundance Film Festival. And even then, 8 years then, I was like, this could bankrupt the whole operation. You know, today, you know, we're we're paying 1,000,000 of dollars for for individual movies. But back then, for a a technology that that wasn't easily understood by by producers, again, there was no Netflix streaming. There there was no Amazon Prime. Comcast is not an it they they are largest cable operator, but you have to live in a Comcast market to really have the service to see how powerful it ultimately became. There was just a lot of apprehension and an unwillingness certainly to take a chance on a startup like Gravitas who would would only work on the film on what's called revenue share or I e, we get the movie for free. Trust us.

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:15:46]:
We'll we'll we'll pay you in 6 months after people have rented the movie. Thankfully, you know, a trickle of producers sort of bought our pitch to to use Hollywood language. And and then, you know, eventually, there was a snowball effect. And certainly having a movie like The Secret where I could say, no. Really. You know, it it works. Trust me. And if you if you don't trust me, call this producer.

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:16:08]:
We we we've sent them a a sizable royalty check. You know, that that was helpful.

Jeffrey Stern [00:16:14]:
So I know there's a a particular qualifier with Gravitas that is all rights distribution. What what what is meant by that?

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:16:21]:
It essentially means we handle everything just just like a a major Hollywood movie studio, whether it's Warner Brothers or Sony or Disney, as it relates to distribution. We we will take a film. You know, right now, you know, the Cleveland International Film Festival is happening, and it's an amazing film festival. And they get a 100,000 people to show up every single year. And so our team is there. We're covering it. We'll watch dozens of movies and and, you know, we'll acquire, you know, a handful of those movies. And we'll say it's an all rights deal.

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:16:50]:
And what that can mean is, eventually, let's just say 6 months later from today, after we acquire the film, well, we can put the movie in movie theaters. We can put the movie on on video on demand with with all or or or many of the the the players that that I I talked about, previously. We can put the movie on DVD. We we still put all of our movies out on DVD. There's there's quite a segment of the population that loves the feel of a physical product and and will buy DVDs. And then we can also sell it to what's called subscription video on demand or or TV entities. And those could be Netflix or HBO Max or Hulu or or some of those other services that people have where they they for a fixed price per month, they have 100 and 100 of thousands of choices of ways to, enjoy their film or their television entertainment.

Jeffrey Stern [00:17:41]:
So what is the the process actually look like today from, you know, filmmakers seeking distribution for a film that they've made to someone streaming that film online, going to a theater and watching it in person. What are the the steps involved in that process? You know, it sounds like there's some inbound stuff that's coming your way. There's some outbound stuff. You're going to the Cleveland Film Festival. You're you're checking out films. What are the methods by which you acquire content?

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:18:09]:
Yeah. So so as I mentioned previously, we probably look at about 3,000 movies. You know, we have 3 people whose whose full time job is is is to watch movies and talk to producers. And and ultimately, you know, if we're interested, and and, you know, to put out 300 and to look at 3,000, it means we have to say no. Thank you. 9 times out of 10 to really find that the 300 films that we think are partners, and we have 200 different partners who we do business with, we'll we'll we'll like. You know, there there's there's a curation that that occurs. But once we find a film that we like, and then we do a license agreement.

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:18:44]:
And and this is a great opportunity to talk about another huge break that that came with with Gravitas' journey. And that's when my brother, Brendan Gallagher, joined our company. And and he is our executive vice president and handles business affairs, which means that he's the person who is is talking to the producers to iron out the license agreement that will allow Gravitas to to take on what is generally exclusive rights for a film distributed, you know, certainly in North America, oftentimes around the world, because we want to get a film in in front of a 100,000,000 homes, in North America or or a 1000000000 homes globally. And and so Brendan has been with the company over over 10 years. Was an owner in the company, and he not only, you know, makes sure that everything is legally sound, but he's one of the people who, along with the full time acquisition executives and myself, go to many film festivals. We certainly go to Cleveland, but we also go to we were just at South by Southwest last month, and and we'll go to Tribeca in a couple months, and Toronto, and Sundance. We're always on the lookout for for great content. We see them at film festivals.

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:19:58]:
We get them sent to us by, you know, sales agents in Hollywood. We get referrals, which is the best. You know, we are now working on the 3rd or 4th or 5th film of a lot of our filmmakers who've now been in business with for over 10 years and their friends. But we also get submissions through our our website, and I I can say that, you know, I I probably get a half a dozen movies sent to me every single day. We make sure that everyone's email address from day 1 is on our website. We're we're really more than happy to do business with with with anyone who who has made a movie. And as a result of the 3,000 movies that you alluded to, we've worked with probably more first time filmmakers in in the last 15 years than any other company. And it's not just first time filmmakers, it's female film makers, it's it's filmmakers from from other minority groups.

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:20:52]:
You know, we really had the ability to to to work really across spectrums of of of filmmakers. You know, we work on so many different genres where we are not, you know, contained and targeted to one particular audience. You know, anywhere we think that there's going to be interest in in a film, you know, where we're willing to acquire and and and and do professional distribution for it.

Jeffrey Stern [00:21:16]:
And as you kind of outline the the nature of this is just occurring to me how how analogous it is in a lot of ways to venture capital, just from managing deal flow, making investments, and taking bets on on founders, if you will, who are who are, you know, creating these these films. When you think about the diligence process and taking, you know, 3,000 down to 300 to to work specifically on on that, You know, how are you parsing signal from from noise? How how do you cut 10 x of the inbound stuff? What are what are the what are the factors or variables that that you're weighing when you gauge the perspective success of of a given film or or a person that that you're choosing to work with?

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:22:02]:
Oh, I like the end of that question. So there let's go back to show business. Well, look, there's the show part. And and, you know, first off, in in any sort of creative endeavor, especially in Hollywood, does it have a good story? Is is there a good plot? How are the production values? Is this something that we think will have great word-of-mouth, you know, once people have a chance to watch it? We we don't have major Hollywood studio marketing budgets. We we think we do great with the money that we do spend. But we want people to eventually talk and say, hey. Take a chance on this movie. And so that's that's one thing.

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:22:34]:
Secondly, is does it have recognizable cast? You know, if if anyone goes on our our website, they can watch our sizzle reel. We've had the the good fortune to work with 100 and 100 of of talented actors and actresses and directors. And then we look at, you know, what are the genres? What what are the genres that we think people are are, you know, continually interested in, year after year? And and we've really specialized in in documentary. It's something I personally love. We probably put over a 100 documentaries a year. We also do a 100 horror movies a year because we know that those people who enjoy those movies, it's it's not just like an activity around Halloween. They like it every single day of the year. And we also, you know, look for genres like comedy or action or thriller or sci fi or animation or subgenres like sports documentaries that we think we know we can identify an audience and and and and serve them a fantastic film.

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:23:29]:
We also look at our data to to to maybe, you know, talk a little bit about the venture capital point of your question. We look at our data as to, like, what are what's called in the industry comp titles. Like like this documentary we might be looking at. Does this look and feel similar to other documentaries that we maybe released 2 years ago or 3 years ago? Especially if it's like a sports documentary. We've got dozens of comp titles that we can look at to see how much money they generated to be able to frame how much we might offer a producer to buy their movie. We we've put out now over 35100 movies, and our our call it our hit rate, if you will, is is is well north of 80% of our movies have been profitable. And and so it's looking at that comp data to to make sure that you're continuing to make, you know, wise decisions as, you know, the landscape of of how audiences enjoy movies, continues to change. But one of the other and and not often talked about things that we look at when we talk to a producer is do we think that there's good fit here? Like, whether it's in a Zoom call, whether it's in a cup of coffee, in a film festival, whether it's looking at a producer's track record of previous films, you know.

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:24:49]:
When you when you enter into an agreement with a distributor, it could be 10, 15, 20 years. And and you really want good fit because it's an exclusive relationship. It's like a, you know, it's a long term relationship. And, I think over over the years, we've we've been, very fortunate to work with thousands and thousands of producers who have been great picks for us. And and that's where to to go back to Brendan Gallagher on our team, you know, him and our acquisitions execs over the years, like, they not only do a great job of, you know, watching the film for its merits, but but also, you know, finding, you know, people, producers that kinda, like, match the core values and the fit that that we want, at Gravitas.

Jeffrey Stern [00:25:38]:
Just curious, like, how much of it of that decision making process do you think is is quantitative and and based on the metrics versus what is qualitative and and based on your intuition and and your, like, collective gut as a as an organization?

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:25:52]:
I I would say it's, like, 75% qualitative and and and 25% quantitative. We'll watch a trailer and say, like, okay. This is good. Let let's offer this. You know? And and that's that's qualitative. I've I've watched thousands and thousands of trailers. I've been with the company from day 1. I I kind of have, you know, a a good feel for for for comps in my head, but it it we're not necessarily running through a massive analysis because, you know, if if it's a inexpensive film for us to acquire, it's a it's a relatively quick decision.

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:26:26]:
Now when we start paying 1,000,000 of dollars for certain movies, we we definitely look more at at some of the quantitative elements of the film. We wanna have multiple eyes, across the organization. Take a look at films, you know, because there's other departments, whether it's the theatrical booking department, whether it's the sales department, or whether it's, like, the marketing PR department. So we wanna make sure that they're bought in, that that they think that this film will have that great word-of-mouth I referenced to make back our investment.

Jeffrey Stern [00:26:56]:
So one of the the things that I'm I'm very curious about is, you know, so ultimately, you've you've moved out west to to the land of film and and movies. You know, how is it that you bring the company back to Cleveland? And and what what's the thinking behind this transition?

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:27:12]:
Yeah. I I started the company in in in 2000 and 6. Ultimately, you know, I I spent about, you know, 14 years in in Los Angeles. Los Angeles was, was and continues to be an amazing place to to to work, especially in the entertainment industry. You know, I was able to have, you know, countless, countless, you know, meetings with with producers and see fantastic films and go to red carpets. But but ultimately, it's it's very important to myself as as well as the other owners of of Gravitas, Michael Murphy, and Brendan Gallagher, that that we wanted to to be part of the economic activity in Cleveland. And and so, you know, we ended up buying, a floor of a building down in Ohio City. And, we wanted to plant our flag as, like, what we like to say, the the largest, independent film distributor in in Northeast Ohio or the Midwest, and just prove that it could be done.

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:28:07]:
And, you know, thankfully, you know, we didn't skip a beat. We we we moved the the whole company in 2019. We've got an amazing team of approximately 25 people who work for us, here in Cleveland. And and it's and it's fun to be, part of this business community. You know, the the great thing about not just Hollywood, but but really in Cleveland is is everyone is it's it's your one degree of separation from from everyone. And and that served us well, in Hollywood, and it continues to to serve us well here in Cleveland. And and, you know, we couldn't be happier being here. And and we we've frequently invited and and entertained people from New York and LA and Toronto to come to Cleveland to experience it and, to to to further invest in in, you know, this industry here.

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:29:00]:
And and it's in this industry in Cleveland is certainly, way more than just gravitas. I mentioned the film festival. We've got a great film commission. We have companies, like like Overdrive that are here in Cleveland. We have companies like Findaway that that are here in Cleveland. There's a company called OxCast that's also heavily involved in media right down the street from us. So there's a a real burgeoning, you know, media and entertainment industry, occurring here in Cleveland. And and and we couldn't be happy to be a part of it.

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:29:31]:
And what we also found because we did have a a small satellite office in Cleveland for for many, many years, is that the the talent that that we've been able to identify in Cleveland, you know, is just as good, if if not better than than the talent that that we would find when we were on the West Coast. We we've hired so many, graduates from from CSU. We've recently hired a great graduate from Kent State. You know, we're always looking to hire great local talent, here in Northeast Ohio. And and I think that they're excited to work for, an industry that's, you know, global and focused and and and loves the business of, of movies.

Jeffrey Stern [00:30:11]:
As the market has converged with, you know, again, your your vision for, at the time, very early for video on demand. I imagine that has brought with it a swell, an influx of of many other people who, you know, perhaps saw the saw the wave coming and and we're working to be entrepreneurially in the space. When you think about, you know, competition, you know, what what does that look like and and how from that perspective is Gravitas differentiated?

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:30:42]:
Yeah. You know, it's it's we live in such a a unique little piece of the industry. I I kinda, like, long ago stopped thinking of of the my my colleagues who who work in this business as as competition. There there's so many movies that get made 10,000 a year. Like, occasionally, yes, we will bump in to, you know, a company that's that's pursuing the exact same movie. And and and that's what's what's really, interesting about it. You know, we all will converge at these film festivals, and and the lights will go down on a movie, and there might be a 1,000 people, you know, in in Park City at the screening. No one else in the world has seen this movie yet.

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:31:23]:
And and of those 1,000 people, there's, like, 950 of them are just, like, general audience people who love independent film. But I know that there's 49 of my 4th full competitors also in that darkened room. And, you know, even if the movie's not over yet, I I know that, you know, some of them are emailing the sales agents saying, love this movie and we'll pay this 1,000,000 of dollars Or or when the lights come up, they're they're they're rushing the agent or they're they're talking to the producer late into the night. It's just such a rewarding and interesting profession that I've gotten to enjoy for 16 years. But but it it's not pitched intense competition. We there there's some there's a movie we might not get it. And and and I I wish the film, to be successful even if it's with, you know, someone that's that's if it's with a company other than than Gravitas. And and I think that they they do the same for us.

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:32:17]:
It's it's still a really challenging industry, but but we've been able to do well for ourselves over 16 years. And there's a lot of fun. You know, we we travel the same circuit going to these film festivals or these film markets. And and entrepreneurs like to help other entrepreneurs. And and and I think that that we see that in our industry as well, that that film distributors like to help other film distributors that might be a, hey. Who's the buyer at this company? Or do you know someone who who, you know, might be able to fill this particular position in our organization? Or can you help us with our accounting software? You know, it's there there's a lot of camaraderie, and that's one of the many reasons, you know, I like working in this industry.

Jeffrey Stern [00:32:58]:
Has your your passion for for movies and and the industry overall changed over time? Or how how how do you feel about it?

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:33:07]:
I think my my passion is is for the industry. It could continues to glow hot. It's a cliche, but, like, literally, every day is different. And now having done this for for 16 years, I can truly say that. And I know tomorrow will be very different than today was, and and that's exciting. And I really enjoy holding. And, you know, I we've been fortunate to recently have been bought by a company called, Anthem Sports and Entertainment, based out of Toronto. They're great people.

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:33:37]:
They share similar values as we do, kinda like Midwest or Canadian values are we found to be very similar. And they own a lot of really interesting properties from from cable channels to, wrestling promotions and female mixed martial arts promotions and and and other properties that that that really try to cater to, you know, enthusiastic audiences. And and now they own Gravitas with with our, you know, 35100 title library that that appeals to, you know, massive swaths of of of of general audience, but but also a a lot of, you know, audiences that are really into a particular subject matter. So it gets me excited. I will say, to to to be fair to your question, I don't watch as many independent films when I'm not working. You know, give me a broad Melissa McCarthy comedy where she's swearing up a blue streak any day of the week because I need to laugh. And, she delivers the goods. And, it's that and and, you know, probably children's movies now that I have, young children.

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:34:42]:
But but still still love the industry, still love film.

Jeffrey Stern [00:34:45]:
Yeah. I would be remiss to to not ask you about what your your favorite films are. This is I was gonna ask later, but while we're on the topic, what what are your what are your top?

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:34:55]:
Oh, we ask everyone who works for gravitons with their top three movies. Our mind have have have really never changed. They predate gravitons. Like, it goes back to, you know, maybe that that that time when I would just, like, love love love movies. Shawshank Redemption is my number 1. Field of Dreams is my number 2. And I really like a movie called Bottle Rocket, which is, Wes Anderson's very first movie. That that's in a tie with The Big Lebowski, with which I got to enjoy when I was in Ireland.

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:35:24]:
And so, so many great moves out there. Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:35:28]:
Yeah. Yeah. There there really are. Think of Valsky's on my list as well. Alright. Well, we'll circle back here. Speaking to the the Anthem acquisition and and just some questions broadly about that, you know, as you think about what that allows for that you couldn't accomplish, without the the resources they're providing? What does it unlock? And and the other question I have about that is, especially with the the folks you've worked with on a repeat basis, have you ever explored, you know, getting more upstream in the film creation process? Like, you know, if you've already established a relationship, a trust, like, coming in more at an idea stage than a finished product stage, and and how you've kind of explored potentially different opportunities for Gravitas as a business.

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:36:15]:
Yeah. We we we do that very selectively, but in general, Gravitas doesn't read scripts. We're we're not on set. We're we're not investing in movies, you know, before they're made, quite frankly. You know, we wait to watch the finished product. We think that, again, there's a lot of product out there that those 3,000 movies that that, you know, we we don't need to get involved that early. Because when you work at the volume that we do, you you just kinda have to to choose your spots. You know, as an entrepreneur, you know, no can can be, like, you know, one of the most powerful words that that that you can use.

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:36:51]:
So, no, we don't produce, and and, no, we don't work on short films, or or, no, we don't work on television series generally. And that's really has allowed us to focus and allowed us to scale our business in in a very fast fashion. I mean, I keep going back to this, like, 35100 titles, but, like, we were able to build that in in 15 years. And in the major Hollywood studios, it took them 90 years to to build that that volume. Now their movies are bigger and and more well known and more valuable, certainly. But there's it's great when when you have 35100 titles because then, you know, new launch of entrepreneurs will will emerge and and they will launch services online. And and they want access to to, you know, a 1,000 titles at a time. So they can, like, target a dozen different audiences, and and we're one of the few companies out there that can, handle that request, very quickly.

Jeffrey Stern [00:37:47]:
Well, I think just generally taking us a more macro step back, you know, one of the more interesting things, that I've been following about just the proliferation of the Internet is how it has unlocked niches that, you know, historically, you know, you were you were confined to those who are in your geographic proximity for whatever interest that you had. And as people have gotten online, it's really led to this proliferation of of niches. You know, very specific topics that likely, you know, don't interest any individual person on average, but of which there are many millions of people who are incredibly interested in that specific niche topic. And I'm I'm curious your your take on on, like, the power of niches and and how you've seen those develop over the last few years.

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:38:37]:
Oh, yeah. I mean and and I think you see this oftentimes in in in in documentary. You know, we we've had, you know, quite a lot of, wonderful documentaries that that we've worked on. I mean, the secret, I I talked about what you could broadly call something, like, that would fall into, like, the self help category, if you will. We've had a great string of, like, awesome music documentaries. We were fortunate to collaborate with Dave Grohl on his directorial debut called Sound City. We worked on a documentary that I was personally really proud of about the rise and fall of Tower Records directed by Colin Hanks, called All Things Must Pass, CrossFit. Or for those people who love CrossFit, and we know there's a lot of them because, we've worked on at least a half a dozen movies, documentaries with with CrossFit.

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:39:27]:
You know, we're we're happy to to to collaborate with them. Last year, we were, really fortunate. We had our 1st Academy Award nomination for a Chilean movie, you know, that that deals with issues around old age called The Mole Agent. And so when when you kind of, like, work are willing to work on on a wide variety of content, even within one genre like documentary, it can bear some some really fantastic films.

Jeffrey Stern [00:39:54]:
When you think about the the future and, you know, what's what's coming next, A few questions, you know, about that framing. To start, what is the future of movie theaters and in person attendance?

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:40:10]:
It's not gonna end. And and and a lot of people like to talk talk about this, and they've been talking about it for decades. And, you know, a 1000000000 plus people will go to the movie theaters every single year and enjoying a movie in a theater is one of life's great pleasures. And and there's always gonna be teenagers, let's just say, who wanna get out of the house. And and, you know, a movie theater provides a a great forum for that. You know, we've seen it just in the last 6 months with with movies like Spiderman. If if you put really compelling content into movie theaters, people people will go. And filmmakers love being in movie theaters.

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:40:50]:
I mean, it is, you know, it it is the history of Hollywood. It's it's the the the history of, you know, physical movie theaters, and there's fantastic venues now where where you can enjoy those films. You know, we're one of the very few companies that that have actually really embraced theatrical since COVID started. You know, we've now released 5 or 6 films in in, you know, near a 1000 screens and and and one instance up to to 2,000 screens. So we we took, you know, the the the situation with the pandemic and and and tried to turn it into a positive from a business standpoint. We went out to Las Vegas, just something called CinemaCon, and and said to the the the movie theaters, hey. We we know we are traditionally thought of as maybe more of a video on demand company, but, you know, we've got really interesting films here as the Hollywood movie studios have moved their movies onto streaming services or delayed the release in movie theaters. Would would you play our movies in in theaters? And and they were, wonderful collaborators in in that regard.

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:41:51]:
I cannot wait to see Top Gun 2 in a movie theater, next month. I have been waiting to see this movie for 2 years and and and will be so thrilled to to sink down in a movie, seat and and and watch that film.

Jeffrey Stern [00:42:06]:
The the thing that has kind of struck me because and maybe this is just my own, you know, anecdotal take having experienced it. But to me, it was a little strange over the last 2 years seeing a movie primed to be released on a given, you know, virtual channel, like exclusively released on Disney Plus or, Netflix. What what is happening there? Yeah. Obviously, in the context of the pandemic, but, you know, is there a longevity to what's happening for for what, you know, has been the effect of of the remote world that that we find ourselves in now?

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:42:42]:
Yeah. I I think the the the short answer is, like, the the the overall, like, sort of revenue pie is is growing larger, and that's good for the ecosystem of the industry. You know, producers are getting paid, directors are getting paid, talent is getting paid. You know, companies are staying in business. And it's it's it's fantastic for audiences, you know, because, you know, they just have more options of how they prefer to to to watch movies, whether it's in the home, whether it's in theaters. And and, you know, why it's happening is, you know, any entrepreneur knows that, like, you know, revenue is important. And, you know, one type of revenue that's particular desired is And and HBO, which is now really they talk a lot about And and HBO, which is now really they talk a lot about HBO Max. You know, they're they're up to when when you combine it with their, you know, sort of traditional HBO subscribers, I think they announced this week that they have, like, 73,000,000 subscribers.

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:43:45]:
And Disney Plus, in a very short period of time, has has generated a huge subscriber base, and there's others. And and so it it's really interesting. It's it's brought a a a ton of new voices, new creators into the ecosystem. And and as a consumer, I think we we've got a ton of really excellent choices, on a near nightly basis because it's it's such a a race, if you will, to to bring, you know, new and interesting TV and and film programming into homes as well as, you know, in theaters where it makes sense for them.

Jeffrey Stern [00:44:19]:
What has you most excited about the future of the the industry? Like, what what what in your mind is the next video on demand, you know, 10 years out? What what what's gonna what's gonna change? What what are you excited about?

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:44:32]:
It's global. It it's it's it's so cool, you know, to think that we buy worldwide rights. Like, we have over a 1000 films of ours where we have worldwide rights. And that there's going to be not just companies like I just mentioned, you know, Netflix and HBO that are already global, But there's there's new entrants that, like, 5 years ago, you know, maybe wasn't as as well known like Pluto or Tubi, where people can watch movies for free, which is which is always what a lot of consumers prefer. But they are they are launching their services in in dozens and dozens of countries over time so that we can, you know, find a great story and and and share that with with a 1000000000 people. And and that wasn't really the way that the industry was aligned 5 or or 10 years ago. You you had to go to fill markets and and sell it territory by territory with all of these different individual companies, and there would be all sorts of different release dates, depending on the, aims and objectives of those underlying distribution companies. It was just very fractured.

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:45:43]:
You know? And and now to be able to go, you know, globally on day 1, much easier is is is terrific. I mean but we've been doing this for a long time going globally. I mean, to go back to that film I mentioned, Dave Grohl's documentary Sound City. Like, he had the vision, whatever it was, almost 10 years ago and said, hey. I've got this great documentary. I'm gonna debut it at Sundance. Can you get it out around the world a week later? And, you know, I will go promote it, and and and I will do talk shows, and I will host SNL, and I'll do a keynote, you know, 6 weeks later at South by Southwest. And, you know, we said absolutely.

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:46:19]:
And then we went about trying to figure out how to do that. And and we were successful because there were companies like Apple who, you know, really, really supported that particular film in a big way on debut across, you know, a 100 different countries.

Jeffrey Stern [00:46:33]:
When you reflect on on the journey so far from, an entrepreneurship and and company building perspective, what are what are the the biggest lessons and and learnings that that you've taken with you?

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:46:47]:
That that it's it's fun to to to, work with your family and friends. First off, it's been a wild ride, and and it's great to work in an industry that is is a relationship based industry. All industries are. Let let's be honest. But but Hollywood or media and entertainment in particular is one that really values the relationships and, you know, things like like track record and and and, you know, people referring, you know, and and helping each other out. And that's very different from, like, what I expected going into all this as a, you know, a very, very young executive or or or start up founder. You know, I thought it was gonna be impossible to ever get a job in Hollywood, you know, going back to the kids from Cleveland who didn't know anyone in the industry. But, on the contrary, if I look back now over at 20 plus year career, it's turned out to be much more of a meritocracy, than I expected.

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:47:46]:
And, just, you know, 100 if not thousands of great relationships have have have come about because of it.

Jeffrey Stern [00:47:52]:
I was actually going to ask what what you thought some of the biggest misperceptions of the industry are that, you know, someone as a viewer like myself with no other involvement than consuming film might might have about the the perceptions of of what's involved?

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:48:09]:
Yeah. It it's that it's it's available to to people who who want to spend the time and the effort to to to be a part of it. When I started, it was, you know, you you weren't, like, really applying online and and or there was, like, just nascent websites that that you could try to apply, but everyone was applying to the same 6 major studios. But nowadays, with the proliferation of social media and just with, like, the proliferation of what we define as content. Whether it's YouTube channels or whether it's, like, film and and and television or whether it's short form content that could be seen on a variety of different ways including social media. There's just a lot of opportunity And and you can reach the decision makers. I mean, someone wants to work at in the entertainment industry, like, you know, go go tweet at the CEO. And, you know, chances are, as one, I love that initiative.

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:49:07]:
And and so, like, it's it's really out there. And and I've I've spoken at in a few college classrooms. And whatever your passion is, like, go to where the action is. Oftentimes in my industry, it's like New York or LA. And and and put in your 5 years and and and be willing to to do anything. You know, treat people with respect, work hard, and, you know, it it'll pay off because, again, people wanna help other people in in the industry. And, once you establish that track record of of being able to deliver, they'll wanna stay with you for for years on down the line. Mhmm.

Jeffrey Stern [00:49:42]:
We'll book end the the conversation here. You know, we we kinda touched on your favorite movies already. But from the the gravitas library, I wanna solicit some of your favorites from from there. Sure.

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:49:55]:
I I mentioned a documentary called All Things Must Pass about the rise and fall of Tower Records. I think that that's a just a really exceptionally well made documentary, but it also covers a lot of different themes, certainly music, but but also just, like, what it's like to to run a successful business over decades. That that at some point, maybe it isn't as successful as, like, the world evolves or in the in the case of that particular industry. You know, physical records were replaced by, you know, digital singles. Fantastic movie. A movie that I'm particularly proud our company had a chance to work on. It's called Our Friend. It stars Dakota Johnson, Jason Siegel, Casey Affleck.

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:50:38]:
It's one that's, a drama that that we acquired out of the trauma phone festival in 2019. We released it, you know, during COVID. It's available everywhere you watch movies, but you you can find it on Amazon Prime. Just a really powerful story about friendship over time made made by, a wonderful, director, Gabriela Copperthwaite. You know? And then if you want something that that's more family friendly and and and light hearted, just to come full circle, I I talked about how, we we worked on the documentary of the secret. But then, I think 14 years later, we got to work on the narrative version of the secret, and it's a great film starring Katie Holmes that once again, you know, touches on issues around family, around positive thinking, and it's one that has been the most successful film we've ever, released, and and you can find that anywhere with joy. Great movies.

Jeffrey Stern [00:51:36]:
Well, a natural follow-up to that that question and our closing question for everyone on the show is, for not necessarily your favorite thing in Cleveland, but for hidden gems. Things that other folks may not know about but should.

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:51:52]:
Yeah. So, you know, watching movies is is is kind of a a sit down and and lean back experience, but but sometimes we all have to get out and exercise and and and and feel, rejuvenated. And and what I've done, especially in recent months, is is play a sport called, paddle tennis. And, it's it's a lot like tennis, but but but a smaller court. Other people play various variations of of racket sports like pickleball, but but it's a great outdoor sport. And and recently, 4 courts were were built, right in downtown Cleveland. It's the Flats Platform Tennis Center. It's down by by Merwin's Wharf, in the on the Scranton Peninsula.

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:52:37]:
They they offer free lessons to anyone who wants to pick up the game. And and it's a great social game that that also allows you to kinda get your heart moving. And so, I highly recommend it. And if I ever see anyone down there, and they've heard this podcast, please say hello. And, it it'll be great to to play panel and and also talk film.

Jeffrey Stern [00:52:57]:
It it is actually a blast. I I just tried it for the first time recently, and it is it is a lot of fun. Awesome. Well, Nolan, thank you so much for for coming on and for for sharing your story. It's it's an incredible journey and and and really appreciate you taking the time.

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:53:15]:
Thank you, Jeffrey. I I love the lay of the land podcast, and and I appreciate all the audience that's that's gonna listen to this.

Jeffrey Stern [00:53:21]:
Thank you, Nolan. If if folks actually have anything that they they would like to follow-up with you about film, gravitas, otherwise, what is the the best way for them to do so?

Nolan Gallagher (Gravitas Ventures) [00:53:30]:
Yeah. The best way to contact me, you you can always email me, nolan@gravitasventures. And you can find the spelling of that on our website or reach out to me on Twitter. I'm at at nolan gravitas. Thank you.

Jeffrey Stern [00:53:45]:
That's all for this week. Thank you for listening. We'd love to hear your thoughts on today's show, so if you have any feedback, please send over an email to jeffrey at lay of the land dot f m, or find us on Twitter at podlayoftheland or at @sternjefe, j e f e. If you or someone you know would make a good guest for our show, please reach out as well and let us know. And if you enjoy the podcast, please subscribe and leave a review on iTunes or on your preferred podcast player. Your support goes a long way to help us spread the word and continue to bring the Cleveland founders and builders we love having on the show. We'll be back here next week at the same time to map more of the land.