#72: Camille Heard (FELOH)

-- AI-Generated --

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:00:00]:
It's cool to see that, you know, some of these things that we hold personally in our own, you know, lives, in our own visions is speaking to an underserved segment, and it has nothing to do with, you know, just race. It has nothing to do with just gender. It has not it has it's all of these little collections of being a real human. Because at the end of the day, being a human is a beautiful experience, but the beauty industry wants you to believe that it's clear skin and makeup.

Jeffrey Stern [00:00:36]:
Let's discover the Cleveland entrepreneurial ecosystem. We are telling the stories of its entrepreneurs and those supporting them. Welcome to the Lay of the Land podcast, where we are exploring what people are building in Cleveland. I I am your host, Jeffrey Stern. And today, I had the real pleasure of sitting down with Camille Hurd. Camille, who is a Cleveland native and currently resides here, is the CEO and cofounder of Fellow, a beauty technology startup celebrating diversity and beauty through community and inclusion. Camille is an entrepreneur in residence at Jumpstart, and she is an all around community builder and good vibes dispenser. After spending 6 years in academia and 3 years in corporate working with healthcare lobbyists, Camille decided to embrace her natural gift as an idea creator and to take seriously her vision for the future of the beauty market.

Jeffrey Stern [00:01:34]:
I will circle back to Camille's prowess as a good vibes dispenser. This conversation is completely full of them, and I hope you all enjoy it. I think it is always a fun place to start with quotes. And to kick us off here today, I will prompt you with one that that you have presented to me, and have called out as as particularly important. But here it is. I could have stayed where I was and had a life you'd be proud of, but I'd rather chase things never thought of. So I will just say I'm also a big Childish Gambino fan. But but what does this quote mean to you? And we'll use it kind of as a as a prompt here to to speak to the maybe the the arc of your your career and and your path to to entrepreneurship.

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:02:21]:
Yeah. Absolutely. So woo woo for Childish Gambino, but that quote for me really speaks to following your path. You know? And I think in our society, there's a lot of prescribed paths that are, you know, packaged up to us in the form of college degrees and the form of, career paths and all of that. And, you know, looking at my life and the opportunities that I've had as far as, you know, having a nice corporate job, having, you know, the ability to move up in ranks and climb the, quote, unquote, corporate ladder, which is becoming, you know, this unstable. But it really has that quote for me really has encapsulated that this idea that you can go your route. You can find success in your way and define it on your terms. And the moment that you start doing that, all these other things start aligning to keep propelling you forward.

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:03:26]:
So it's taking the route that is not prescribed to you and doing the things that are that others might think are undoable unthinkable and embracing that.

Jeffrey Stern [00:03:39]:
As you laid it out, not that we have to go into poetry, but Childish Gambino is probably inspired by some Robert Frost there. The Path Less Taken.

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:03:48]:
Mhmm. Mhmm. Most definitely.

Jeffrey Stern [00:03:51]:
Favorite second grade poem right there.

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:03:53]:
Beautiful.

Jeffrey Stern [00:03:54]:
Well, I think we could just kind of work our our way into the path less prescribed that that you've taken. And, you know, what what kind of drew you to it, and and what really was your motivation there as you you started on it?

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:04:09]:
Absolutely. So I think for me, I've always been a creative thinker, and it was probably the summer before entering grad school. So I just finished undergrad with a degree in medical anthropology, and everybody's like, what are you gonna do? Dig up bones and stuff? And I'm like, no. So, like any college student that doesn't know what they're gonna do, They apply to some grad schools and some, you know, opportunities just to keep moving, and that's what I did. But before grad school, I vividly remember, you know, sitting on my back porch before I packed up everything and moved to North Carolina and just started writing every idea that I had. Like, in just looking at a notebook and thinking, what is the worst that can happen if I take one of these ideas seriously? And I just started to, like, rank them. Like, which ones am I drawn to? Which one seemed the most interesting? Which ones could be profitable? And I picked the one that was really speaking to me, and it had a lot to do with the beauty space and all of this movement that was happening as far as, like, content being created, entrepreneurs rising up in this industry. And I knew that something was there, and nobody was gonna tell me to take that idea seriously.

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:05:27]:
And so that was my initial seedling spark of maybe I should just take one step. And one step came to 5 steps, and 5 steps came to a whole stair, and a stair became, you know, I walked up a flight of stairs. We're we're going somewhere.

Jeffrey Stern [00:05:46]:
And when you when you think about those those steps and and the flight of stairs, what what were those first steps? How did you how did you start to take this idea seriously?

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:05:57]:
Yeah. No. That's a real one. And as a lot of first time entrepreneurs are, you know, I was really hesitant. I was, you know, kinda tiptoeing up, you know, going up and then down and up and then down. So for me, those first steps were really just researching. So one thing that college did teach me was how to research stuff and how to, you know, kinda put data and abstract ideas into some kind of context. So I just hit the Internet really hard.

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:06:25]:
I talked to, actually, my freshman year roommate back in undergrad about the idea, and we both were just on the same page. And so we started just putting, like, a monthly meeting on the calendar to talk about what research that we found. You know? And then we got to a point of, let's actually flesh out a business plan. And so those were the initial first steps. It was just researching on the Internet, something that we were very comfortable with, and putting it on paper, which I always recommend doing because first step of manifesting anything. Getting it out of your brain onto something that's tangible.

Jeffrey Stern [00:07:06]:
Mhmm. Galvanizes your your thinking, getting it out. It's like, do I really understand this? I thought you were right.

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:07:12]:
Mhmm. It forces you. Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:07:15]:
So so what you know, you kinda mentioned the the space that that you're thinking about and operating in in beauty. Digging a little deeper in that, where's the the opportunity that that you that you have an inclination exists and the vision that you have for for the broader space at that point in time?

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:07:35]:
Gotcha. So at that point in time so this is going a while back for real. So we're talking about, like, 2014, 2015. And it was seeing the rise of influencers. Like and we kinda forget that influencers, it's still a relatively new term. I would say over the past 7 years, it has become a, you know, job in itself. But back around, like, the 2014 time, it was still, you know, more so, like, YouTubers and people on Instagram that were posting things. And then now these people were kinda democratizing advertisement because they would get some products.

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:08:17]:
They would share with you know, how they felt about those products. You started seeing, like, hey. Use my promo code. And back then, it was still, like, really early off, but then you also saw a rise on our other side of the market with entrepreneurship in this space. So around that 2014, 2015 time, there were, you know, a couple of these hair care brands that were selling their products online, like, direct to consumer. So you started to see the rise of ecommerce, particularly in, you know, in every industry, but definitely in the beauty space. And it was just really interesting to see because, historically, the beauty industry has been owned by, I wanna say, 7 companies. So L'Oreal's, P and G's, those big companies.

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:09:08]:
And then you have this rise of these woman owned companies that were coming up with skin care, hair care, and all of that stuff and how they were leveraging, you know, the word of the people, the word of consumers to grow their brands. And so that's when we were like, okay. There's a nugget in here that we can partake in.

Jeffrey Stern [00:09:30]:
And and what was that what was that nugget? Where do you start to build the the foundation for for what Fellow is today?

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:09:38]:
Absolutely. So the nugget was that this industry, the beauty industry, is very fragmented. So you have content creators creating all of this great content across so many different platforms. You have these content creators having the power to influence how purchasing behaviors are, you know, being changed. And then you have a fragmented landscape for these rising entrepreneurs to tap into all of these different social channels and all of these different people to be in growing their brands and getting their brand awareness out there. And fast forward from 2015 until, you know, I would say 2020 when you had a boom in entrepreneurship because of the pandemic. Like, so many brands started coming out, and the market has become quickly saturated very, very quickly. And so it took us a minute to really understand that, 1, indie beauty, independently owned beauty was our true market.

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:10:44]:
And 2, the value that we bring is creating a new marketing and sales channel for this growing group of entrepreneurs to be able to penetrate the market in a way that is unique, in a way that helps them get directly into the hands of consumers in in a way that, you know, you're creating these champions without having to come out of pocket. And so that's when we were like, okay. You know, Fellow is here, and it's here to stay because this market is really fragmented, bringing the market into one place, but then also providing that opportunity for these brands to stand out in a very saturated market.

Jeffrey Stern [00:11:27]:
I always think it's it's really interesting to hear, particularly the the kind of founding story and, endeavor for building this this two sided marketplace because it's you you inevitably encounter this chicken and egg problem where how do you go about simultaneously getting those people on the supply side of it, those offering the beauty products, the independently owned companies offering the the service and product, and simultaneously getting the demand side. And it's very hard to just surmount one without the other. So how did you go about, it? What was your what was your strategy for thinking about surmounting that 2 sided marketplace problem?

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:12:08]:
Absolutely. And yeah. I mean, it's definitely a problem, and investors are very happy to let me know. Marketplaces are hard. However, what we started to do was, especially in the earlier days, build a community. So wherever these people were, we were there. And in our space, there are actually large scale events that are you know, there are hair shows, beauty expos, beauty cons, where all of our stakeholders are there and network with them. So, 1, we started to kind of build up, you know, this listserv of the emerging brands.

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:12:47]:
So we did really focus on the brands first because we were like, okay. If there are no brands on our platform, we don't really have a business model. Would just be another social space, which is okay, but we really wanted to figure out what's the avenue for these brands. So we found that brands are actually a lower lift for us. That's the side of the market that's easier to tap into because it's oversaturated and because they're really open to looking for low cost ways to get themselves out there. And so listing on Fellow is free. Participating in our influencer program is free. So it's a very low risk way for a new brand to, you know, say yes to.

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:13:33]:
And, oftentimes, you can get to the decision makers because they're start ups as well. And so we really started focusing on them, and now we're starting to get some inbound interest, which is awesome. And so since we got to that place, we, of course, have grown our user base and but it has been more organically grown. So people find out about us. They download. They're participating on the platform, But we're seeing now, you know, the right levers and things to pull so we can really get an influx and start really ramping up our marketing. So that's one thing that I learned personally as a start up founder is they always say, you know, you grow fast. And yes.

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:14:14]:
But you grow fast strategically. And sometimes that means doing things that are not scalable first so you really figure it out. And then once you figure that out, you can scale because your platform, your entity, your services can withstand that scale.

Jeffrey Stern [00:14:31]:
So I think it might just be a good time to, you know, lay out Fellow as it is today, you know, give an overview of of the company, the product, the offering, and how the community on one side and and the brands on the other side have have evolved.

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:14:47]:
Absolutely. So Fellow is a social marketplace app for the indie beauty industry. You can think of Fellow as a conscious and inclusive Instagram just for beauty. So there's a social part where our users, they can post their beauty content, like their tutorials and product reviews and all of that good stuff. And the coolest part is that when they're interacting and engaging on the platform, they earn curl coins. So anytime they make a product review, anytime they do any kind of cool functionality on our platform, they are earning actual rewards, and they can use those rewards in our marketplace where independently owned beauty brands can sell their products. So on the seller side, indie brands, they enter into our, you know, interest form, and we get their information, and we sync their current, you know, whether it's Shopify or Magento, into our marketplace. And so their brands are reflect or their products are reflected in our marketplace, and they're available to our users to purchase.

Jeffrey Stern [00:15:59]:
Where did that incentivization idea come from? The the reward mechanism just kind of fueling the the flywheel. How did that come to be?

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:16:09]:
You know what? So, one thing that was really, really big for us is if we were gonna make another social media, we wanted to make it equitable. And we have seen so many social media companies profit off of our time and our creativity. And for us, we just knew it was important for us to give instead of take. And, you know, I'm really big on cooperative economics. I'm really big on, like, how can we all gain from anything. You know? It doesn't have to be a take, take, take, profit, profit, profit. But if you can really create value for your stakeholders at different levels, that value comes back to you in so many different ways. So it was really that.

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:17:00]:
It was really we're not gonna just take people's data and creativity and not give them anything at all. But not only are we not gonna do that, we're gonna have that incentive go towards these really awesome brands that are trying to grow their brand awareness. So Fellow pays for those discounts right now. That's what so Fellow, anytime anybody earns curl coins and they get $5 off, $10 off, That comes from us. And our sellers, they still make, you know, their cut. So we really just want to create that true symbiotic ecosystem.

Jeffrey Stern [00:17:34]:
What does it mean to to build on authentic inclusion?

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:17:41]:
Yeah. Yeah. So that's another key thing for us being particularly in the beauty space founded by women and particularly women of color, we really wanted to be an authentic leader in whatever we touch, in whatever we create. And so for us, what that means is, you know, not just on the surface level having diverse representation, but even to you know, speaking to, like, some of the algorithms behind our social media today, certain things continue to populate and surface because algorithms are not inherently inclusive. You know, they're really framed by human behavior, and human behavior is framed currently by our society, which really isn't that inclusive, especially when it comes to beauty. So one thing that we really wanted to do was to make sure the content that we are collecting and surfacing is not just race inclusive, but hair texture inclusive, body type inclusive, disability inclusive. And that's another big thing. Like, we're seeing you know, even in the influencer space, the people that are getting the big checks look a certain way.

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:19:00]:
And we're seeing,

Jeffrey Stern [00:19:01]:
you

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:19:01]:
know, these really awesome influencers in the beauty space that may be that may have a disability, and they're not getting represented in the same way. And so we wanted wanted to, at all levels, to build in inclusion, authentic inclusion into our DNA.

Jeffrey Stern [00:19:19]:
And how have you found that from the I I don't know. Just with with all the kind of seeds that you're planting from the onset, the the inclusivity, the, know, giving back to the community, building on authentic inclusion, how it has affected the the community that ultimately that you're building and maybe just the engagement that that you're getting from from those who who are using Fellow?

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:19:43]:
It is really creating the light effect, like the moth to the light or the magnet effect. And we are totally okay that, you know, some people might see our platform and not feel that you the the it might not feel like it's for them because what we're conditioned to feel is you walk into Sephora and you walk into Ulta, and it feels very, you know, high fashion, you know, cost a lot of money. Everything's luxury. And for us, everything is just real. And so when you come into our community, you see real people that might have real acne posting their real pictures being really happy. And you see our community responding to that in a positive way. And our job is to, you know, stand firmly in that realness and that authenticity, and we're seeing that people are drawn to it. People are sincerely drawn to it, the right people.

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:20:41]:
So it's cool to see that, you know, some of these things that we hold personally in our own, you know, lives, in our own visions is speaking to an underserved segment, and it has nothing to do with, you know, just race. It has nothing to do with just gender. It has not it has it's all of these little collections of being a real human. Because at the end of the day, being a human is a beautiful experience, but the beauty industry wants you to believe that it's clear skin and makeup. You know?

Jeffrey Stern [00:21:21]:
Yeah. No. I I I understand. I I'd love to hear, you know, putting putting a a face to some of these ideas. You know, what what do some of the brands on the marketplace look like? What are what are your favorite examples of of some of those independently owned companies and and their stories?

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:21:38]:
Yeah. Absolutely. So there are so many of these brands that I mean, all of them I'm a fan of. But just from a demographic standpoint, 90% of them are women owned, and 80% of them are minority owned, which in itself is, you know, really inspiring to see. People like going out on a limb to create and make things with genuine love. So I would say I can't even just say, like, I have some favorites. Like, they're all sincerely my favorites, but everything from head wraps, perfect pineapple, they're actually a Cleveland based company that, and Sharron Leeper. She's the founder who who's here in the city as well.

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:22:25]:
Incredible, incredible products. There are, you know, everything from self care. So there's a line called lotus flower and they have a candle that burns into a lotion. So you burn your candle. You you feel the vibes. And when it melts, you can use that on your skin. So all of these different products have been, you know, curated with just passion and love behind them. And that's something you just can't walk into, you know, Walmart and find instantly.

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:22:58]:
You know? So it's really cool to see. We have a collection of not just products, but people in those products.

Jeffrey Stern [00:23:07]:
Yeah. I would say love and inclusion is not the the first two things I feel when I walk into Walmart.

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:23:13]:
You know? Yeah.

Jeffrey Stern [00:23:16]:
How do you think about both, you know, presently, but thinking more about the the future and and the impact that that you hope to have with with Fellow in in retrospect. What what does success look like and mean to you?

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:23:29]:
I would say success there's a couple of different ways that we can understand success for Fellow. I will say, you know, sticking to our core vision, if we are really being an avenue and an advocate for these entrepreneurs in this space, we wanna give them the opportunity to grow and scale. And whether that means means helping them really find the right supply chain to really get their price points together, whether that means, helping them become internationally recognized brands and brokering deals so their products can be in the UK, you know, and helping them globalize and scale that way, helping them potentially exit. And so what we find is, you know, a lot of these brands, they you can grow their companies to a certain point, and they if they choose to exit, and not all brands do, but, you know, most businesses, if they're successful, they have a really great exit. But especially when you build something off of Luv, you want it to exit in a way that feels true to you in helping, you know, negotiate what that could look like. So we really see ourselves being a leader in that way for the beauty industry. And then an another thing, I would say, again, being a minority woman owned tech start up, we wanna be able to be up there as, you know, a, quote, unquote, unicorn and really show that that representation in that capacity. Because to this day, you know, we have not seen too many companies that are founded by ink magazines, be in these spaces that are being talked about on par with the other big startups that have done it.

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:25:18]:
So we really wanna be able to be one of those faces that show, you know, look. We did it. It wasn't easy, but it happened.

Jeffrey Stern [00:25:28]:
When you, you know, think about the the next flight of stairs, right, as as you made your way up the the first few floors, What what is coming next? What's on the horizon for Fellow that that you're you're excited about?

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:25:40]:
Oh my goodness. It's definitely a lot. It's it's a big staircase. We made it to a good first landing. So our product is in the market. We have our MVP. People can download, which is really, really cool. But since we had to learn a lot of lessons, a lot of ups and downs through those earlier years being an entrepreneur, we got to a stable place where it really is time for us to market and grow.

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:26:06]:
And that's the next flight of stairs for us is really finding the right path for us to reach those people that are craving that authenticity and beauty. And so a lot of our initiatives are lining up those marketing opportunities. And I'm ex I can't say everything now, but there's some partnerships in the works that are really aligning themselves to for us to do just that. And so it's really getting to, you know, that marketing standpoint alongside, raising our first external capital. So by external, I mean, not the friends and family and the angels, like, really being in the VC world. And we're you know, we we have some interest, which I'm very excited about as well, And interest means options.

Jeffrey Stern [00:26:58]:
That is, like, very exciting. Options are always good.

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:27:01]:
Yes.

Jeffrey Stern [00:27:04]:
On the flip side of that coin, as you've thought of the gone through the startup journey so far, when you think about the next flight of stairs, you know, what what causes you to stay up at night? What what is, what is daunting to you about this process so far?

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:27:19]:
Yeah. I mean, honestly, I'm I'm probably gonna be the one of the ones that, like I'm just I wouldn't say that I stay up at night worried about things. Like, this journey has humbled me and humbled my spirit in so many different ways that I do not worry because I know. And when you have an internal sense of knowingness, you're not operating off of maybe. You're not operating off of I believe. You're not operating off of I think. I'm operating off of I know, and my reality just isn't at the same space that my internal reality is. But I it was not always like that.

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:28:04]:
So I would say 2 years ago, what kept me up at night was financing Fellow. Fellow was primarily financed by, you know, my savings in my first corporate job and then through credit. Like, we, me and my cofounder, we dug a hole for ourselves because we didn't have friends and family that can cut checks for us to spend and figure it out. Debt kept me up at night. Bad developers. Oh my goodness. I mean, anybody creating any kind of tech thing and you are a non tech founder, let me know because I will save you money, frustration, and loss of hair shedding because, that definitely kept me up at night. But, you know, through, I guess, surrendering and moving more with intention and focus and not hanging on to things that I couldn't control, it was like this knot of issues started to unravel 1 by 1 by 1 by 1.

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:29:03]:
So now, yeah, things happen. You know, things don't go right, but I am not up at night. Like, I promise you. I'm just like, look. It's gonna

Jeffrey Stern [00:29:13]:
work out

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:29:13]:
because guess what? I'm still breathing, and I'm still alive. And I'm much better off than I was 2 years ago. So

Jeffrey Stern [00:29:20]:
Oh, that's fantastic. I love that mentality.

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:29:23]:
Thank you.

Jeffrey Stern [00:29:25]:
You know, maybe if you can talk a little bit about the the fundraising process as you as you enter that chapter.

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:29:32]:
So one thing that they don't tell you is that fundraising is building relationships. Fundraising is not easy, and fundraising takes time. And so I would say, initially, we didn't have you know, we came from, like, academia. In academia, you work hard, you apply for something, you get it, or you don't. This is not how that world works. This world works on networking, building relationships, keeping people updated, and all these, you know, social cues and stuff that some people are you know, their circles naturally have them and some people don't. And so for us, over the past, I would say, since maybe 2020, we started to really throw ourselves in different tech ecosystems through accelerators, through, you know, just meeting with people that know people that know people, taking a bunch of Zoom calls. Like, I remember there was one period of my life where I would be on a Zoom call with somebody new every, you know, hour for 8 hours.

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:30:40]:
But that built up relationships, and we leveraged those relationships with monthly updates. And now people, investors, are anticipating, you know, seeing what did Fellow achieve, you know, in q one of 2022. And I've learned that you always wanna stay top of mind. You never want to be a need and be not top of mind. Because the moment you're like, oh, snap. Okay. Things are getting serious. I need to raise money.

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:31:14]:
You're already top of mind on somebody's list. Somebody already has seen your journey.

Jeffrey Stern [00:31:18]:
Mhmm.

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:31:19]:
And that's one thing that they don't tell you. Like, so you're out there raising money, start building relationships and networking and keep people updated.

Jeffrey Stern [00:31:28]:
And is that that's a a muscle you have to exercise a little bit.

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:31:31]:
Yes. You do. Because, like, I'm the last thing that I want to do is send another email to a bunch of important people, like, every month. Like, that's the last thing I wanna do, but I made time to do it because it's important. And, also, gathering your data and KPIs and tracking it regularly. I mean, it's important for you, but it's important to communicate, you know, your progress and your journey to anybody that's gonna be a stakeholder or a funder.

Jeffrey Stern [00:31:59]:
What what has surprised you most about the journey so far, the things that you just truly did not anticipate or expect coming into it.

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:32:09]:
Yeah. Okay. Let me let me that's a good one. I mean, when they say expect the unexpected, I think that is just a real statement. Like, the moment you tether yourself to an idea of how something's gonna go is a moment it will not go that way. And I think, you know, especially our our lives are just set up to favor consistency. It's to favor familiarity and, you know, schedules, processes. This is a very unorganized terrain that you're dealing with.

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:32:49]:
You're literally taking thought forms and bringing them into reality that people are, in some way, fashion, are gonna use and pay for. And so I guess the thing that was you know, you should know that this is expected, but that's unexpected is you have timelines and deadlines that are just not gonna be met because things happen. And no matter what, things are gonna not necessarily go your way, but it's relaxing into the ebb and flow of the journey that will allow you to go much further faster than resisting the waves and trying to walk hard against them. And so that was just another lesson, but another, like, wow. I can really plan a whole thing and then not go that way. Like, stop planning and just start doing stuff strategically.

Jeffrey Stern [00:33:39]:
Just do stuff. As you've kind of matured in in the in the market, I'm I'm curious, like, what competition looks like? Is it is it those 7 brands and Fellow, or have other people kind of pulled on this thread of intersectionality and authentic inclusion, or simultaneously trying to build something similar to to what you are are building?

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:33:59]:
Yeah. So we have seen a rise in some competitors in the beauty digital social community space. So there are a couple of different social communities that are popping up for beauty, But the thing that we're seeing that's different with Fellow is not just being a social space, not just being an avenue for people to, oh, yeah. I tried this beauty product, and this is how I felt about it. But being all of those things, but empowering the the little guys, the little entrepreneurs, the the ones that are really growing their brands out there. So a lot of the digital communities, they're still very much in alignment with, you know, some of those brands that have already raised, you know, a couple $1,000,000 that are already in big box retail and not necessarily intentionally, you know, bringing up that side of the market, and that's one of our sweet spots. But then also too, going back to the authentic and inclusion, you know, aspects of Fellow, many of our competitors are not founded by people like that look like us. And some of them some of those beauty startups are majority men owned, and it's in no, you know, no shade to men.

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:35:18]:
But it's just very interesting to see how, you know, the majority of those competitors that are in this space that are men owned that are able to access those early rounds of, you know, seed funding and have raised, you know, maybe a1000000 to $20,000,000 at this point are still in this area, but the things that are woven into the fabric of Fellow speak to a much more authentic path. And it takes a little bit longer, but we truly and sincerely feel that the foundation that we're building is more stable even though the found the house part is not as big and beautiful right now, but the foundation is really, really strong because of the community that we're building.

Jeffrey Stern [00:36:05]:
Mhmm. With with the community, I know it's it's mostly from a an online, a technology enabled per perspective. Do do you ever think about, you know, bringing people together physically in person and kind of leveraging the community in in those kinds of ways?

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:36:23]:
Yes. Oh my goodness. Yes, we have. We were actually our team meeting is planning something to do just that. And so, we're not sure what that could look like this year, but we absolutely anticipate having in person experiences where our brands can be represented and be able to have that 1 on 1, you know, with actual customers in real life. Because at the end of the day, we're all human beings. Like, we're not just people buying things, like you know? And then 2, being an an avenue for our users or our community members to interact with each other in real time is super important, and we absolutely anticipate doing that in a small capacity, maybe this year, in a slightly bigger capacity next year.

Jeffrey Stern [00:37:17]:
Well, I wanna maybe tie back to to Cleveland for a second and and lay that on top of everything here that that we've been talking about as you've kind of gone through this journey, you know, building building it here in in Cleveland. How have you thought about that, you know, working through through Cleveland's innovation ecosystem? And, what's what's kinda your perspective on that process?

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:37:39]:
I will say even though I'm born and raised in Cleveland, I did not think I was going to live here at all. Like and definitely not as an entrepreneur. Like, the moment I decided to be an entrepreneur, I'm like, I gotta be in LA or Miami or somewhere else. But when I really started thinking about the the power that an entrepreneur has on, a city, they're in the direction that I am driving Fellow. There is no other city that I want to put on better than Cleveland, period. So I think for me, intentionally planting seeds here, taking root here, and figuring out how to to be a part of our emerging ecosystem is also very much woven into my own personal mission and my own personal endeavors. I have seen our city change tremendously since I left for high school, like, tremendously. And that was over a decade ago.

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:38:44]:
Like, it's been a minute. So it's just really cool to see, you know, the city changing, but at the same time, not changing quick enough. And so I really do hope and foresee my role with Fellow, my role as an entrepreneur in residence at Jumpstart, you know, my role in our just greater innovation ecosystem, being one of those connectors to amplify that growth.

Jeffrey Stern [00:39:13]:
Yeah. A lot a lot of that resonates.

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:39:15]:
I hope so.

Jeffrey Stern [00:39:17]:
Yeah. Just reflecting a little bit now on on the whole Fellow Journey so far, what are your learnings? What are the things that that you're taking with you that, yeah, you've picked up along the way?

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:39:31]:
Yeah. Yeah. So I would say going back to the ebb and flow of just entrepreneurship, it is truly fine. Like, one thing that I had to learn was finding the sweet spot between focusing and working and intention and surrendering. And that middle sweet spot is, like, where you, like, smooth and, like, flow through the journey of entrepreneurship where things align, you're moving in the right direction, you're not forcing something, but you're not, like, lackadaisical. It truly is finding that sweet spot of I'm gonna focus, and I'm gonna surrender at the same time to create the thing that I'm creating. Another thing that I learned, and this is going back to me sitting on that roof that one day and writing down all of my ideas, was nobody's gonna tell you to take your big ideas seriously. Like, nobody is going to nobody has a reason to tell you that.

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:40:28]:
And, unless you just surround yourself with super optimistic, you know, positive pop tart people, like, you know, nobody is just gonna pop up and be like, you know what? You should actually do that. So I had to just learn that it's okay to take something that seems really big and seems impossible seriously. Like, it's okay. And I also had to learn that any experience that we have always has, inherent value in it. So and and what that for me looks like is, you know, through entrepreneurship, you are going to take some losses. And in Fellow on team Fellow, we call them l's. You will take some l's, and it will feel very hard to get back up after that l. But what Fellow says is we turn losses into lessons.

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:41:20]:
So anything that we ever lose, anything that we ever, you know, stumbled on, we extract whatever it is that we were supposed to learn from it, and then we keep it moving. And so losses turn to lessons.

Jeffrey Stern [00:41:36]:
Losses turn to lessons. I love that. What what matters to you a lot that we haven't necessarily talked about yet?

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:41:45]:
What matters to me going back, I guess, to, like, Cleveland and Cleveland's ecosystem or, you know, growing adolescent ecosystem because it's not fully mature yet. One of the things that really matter to me is finding ways to build community here for like minded people. You know, I just feel like there's so much creativity in Cleveland. There's so much innovation that's happening, and we don't really know who each other is and what each other is doing until we listen to your podcast. You know? And so we wanna be able to have some of these experiences where we can begin to have this ecosystem where you can go to that coffee shop on any given day, run into somebody you know, have an enlightening inspiring conversation, and then people start, you know, connecting you with other people in their network. Right now, we have a weak, fragmented, the opposite of dense, sparse network. And that's why people move to LA. That's why people move to New York.

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:42:54]:
They don't move there to just, like, I'm gonna move there, and I'm gonna make a $1,000,000 tomorrow. No. They're moving there because it's density and networks. And I think that density and network comes from community. And right now, I really wanna help aid in being an impetus for that community to start gelling together here in Cleveland because we have too much innovation and creativity for us to not be that.

Jeffrey Stern [00:43:20]:
Again, resonating very much. Would love to to work with you on that going forward.

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:43:26]:
Yes. Please.

Jeffrey Stern [00:43:28]:
Well, I'll, we'll we'll close out the the conversation here with, the question that we ask everyone on the show, which is not necessarily for your favorite thing in Cleveland, but for something that other folks may not know about. A hidden gem, if you will.

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:43:45]:
Gotcha. Okay. Okay. I'm gonna give I'm gonna give 1. I might give 2, actually. So I'm a nature lover. I'm a tree hugger. Like, on any given day, if you don't see me on a Zoom, it's because I'm in a park walking amongst the trees.

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:44:03]:
Cleveland has incredible metro parks as you all probably know. But my favorite one that I feel that a lot of people still don't really know about and go to is the, the lakefront reservation, and it is beautiful. It's, like, between 55th and, I think, 72nd Street, like, right on the water, tucked away. And the views, the birds, the trees, the everything is just amazing. So that's one of them. And then another one that I found I don't know. Maybe it's not that hidden, but I didn't know about it until, a year and a half ago. But the Metroparks, they actually own bars.

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:44:43]:
And one bar that they own is on East 55th, and they open up in the in the summer months. And it's just a nice vibe, a nice Cleveland on the lake, chilling with some good drinks and some good food, outdoors vibe. So those are 2 places that definitely check out if you're a nature and or outdoor person.

Jeffrey Stern [00:45:07]:
Good vibes.

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:45:09]:
Yes. Only.

Jeffrey Stern [00:45:11]:
Well, Camille, I really just wanna thank you for your time and and for for coming on to to share your story and and the work you're you're doing at Fellow.

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:45:20]:
Thank you so much, Jeff. I appreciate you and you taking your time to interview me. Thank you.

Jeffrey Stern [00:45:27]:
Oh, my pleasure. If folks have anything they would like to follow-up with you about, what is the the best way for them to do so?

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:45:34]:
Absolutely. So if you are a beauty lover or a beauty brand, always feel free to connect with Fellow at hello at fellow dot com. So that's hello at fellowfeloh.com. And if you're looking to connect with me on some building the community tip, definitely hit me up. I'm on Instagram. It's Camille camille dot genise, g e n I s e. And I'd love to, you know, just connect with the people.

Jeffrey Stern [00:46:05]:
It's fun when the email rhymes. I've never really

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:46:08]:
heard that. You cannot forget that.

Jeffrey Stern [00:46:12]:
Awesome. Well, thank you again.

Camille Heard (FELOH) [00:46:14]:
Thank you.

Jeffrey Stern [00:46:17]:
That's all for this week. Thank you for listening. We'd love to hear your thoughts on today's show, so if you have any feedback, please send over an email to jeffrey@layoftheland.fm, or find us on Twitter at podlayoftheland or @sternjefe, j e f e. If you or someone you know would make a good guest for our show, please reach out as well and let us know. And if you enjoy the podcast, please subscribe and leave a review on iTunes or on your preferred podcast player. Your support goes a long way to help us spread the word and continue to bring the Cleveland founders and builders we love having on the show. We'll be back here next week at the same time to map more of the land.