#93: Michael Kubinski (Cleveland Clothing Company)

I went to art school, so I didn't go to business school. So we're learning a lot
How to run the business more efficiently and not just be hey, let's put out a cool
t -shirt
It's become more than that and you know having you know getting married having two
kids during this whole business has put a different perspective on things So it's
more than cool t -shirts. It's you know about Creating good livelihoods not only for
myself, my wife, and my family but to the greater Cleveland clothing family that we
have. Let's discover the Cleveland entrepreneurial ecosystem. We are telling the
stories of its entrepreneurs and those supporting them.
Welcome to the Lay of the Land podcast where we are exploring what people are
building in Cleveland. I am your host Jeffrey Stern and Today, I have the pleasure
of speaking with Michael Kubinski, the founder and owner of Cleveland clothing
company. From printing tees in a basement to the best of Cleveland, Cleveland
clothing company has been spreading Cleveland pride one t -shirt at a time since
2008. They are independent, local and family owned, a one -stop shop for Cleveland
themed graphic tees, peril, accessories, gifts, and more. Founded by two lifelong
friends, one a graphic designer who had always dreamed of starting a t -shirt company
and the other, an entrepreneur who was looking for a fun new opportunity, one
fateful night over some beers, chili, and burgers at one of their favorite spots,
Whitney's in Richfield, Ohio. They decided to put their money where their mouth was
and come up with a plan. They purchased a screen printing press, some blank t
-shirts, and got to work on a couple of designs and Cleveland clothing company was
born. They started a website and use social media to get the word out and spent
$50 on business cards which they left around local businesses. Word began to spread
and the company was literally spreading Cleveland pride one t -shirt at a time as
the guys screened and shipped the shirts themselves. And the rest is somewhat history
as they say, a history which we will cover in our conversation today. So, please
enjoy my conversation with Michael Kobinski.
You know, Cleveland Clothing Company is, I feel like one of the strongest pro
Cleveland brands I've come across. There's a real staple presence right in the heart
of downtown. Did you always have this vision of championing the city and the brand
of Cleveland? I would love to learn more about, you know, how you came to start
this company and where that that inspiration kind of stemmed from. I mean, well, you
know, growing up in Cleveland, you, you learned to love it. And, you know, and, you
know, as, as you say, like, was it my dream all the time? Like, no, I'm going to,
I was five years old now. I wanted to play sports or be, you know, something else.
But I'm, you know, as I grew up and went off to college, um, I, you know, went
to Ohio, Wesleyan, studied fine art and eventually ended up becoming a graphic
designer. But you know, after graduation,
you know, did the normal trying to find myself kind of thing and worked in retail
and got into retail management. So I worked for, you know, learned how to like
learn the ropes of running a store and kind of like a business and then went back
to school to be a graphic designer. So once I graduated again for being a graphic
designer, I got a job locally for a consumer goods brand. And if you guys have
ever used like Gugan, I designed packaging labels for the brand Gugan amongst other
brands that may not be as notable as that. But that's where this kind of all the
story kind of all starts. So So I hired on for that company and I was the lowly
junior designer and I was relegated to the backs of the packaging, backs of the
bottles. So a lot of black and white work, not very creative and I just kind of
needed a creative outlet if you will and I always wanted to learn how to screen
print so I had some extra cash in my pocket and Thought that I would design or
not design. I'm sorry I would purchase a screen printing press some screens and t
-shirts and learn how to screen print and from there I was like, how do I make
something cool out of this? You know, I was in Akron at the time or knew about
the company rubber city clothing And they basically do what we do here in Cleveland
or Cleveland clothing if we're Akron I was late and at the time in 2008,
I looked at Cleveland and I didn't really see anything there that was on the
positive and pride aspect of Cleveland, and I saw basically kind of a hole and
like, why don't we make Cleveland pride t -shirts, kind of like what they're doing
at River City. So I came up with some designs, you know, this is So my space was
cool. I started at Sealy clothing. My space page had my friends friend it and then
have their friends and so on and so forth. And it just kind of grew from a
creative outlet and a hobby at the time. - Wow, so it's kind of a real grassroots
initiative at the onset. - Yeah, everything was
I put the designs up and you know people would like it or whatever and we would
then we built a website and big card luckily I didn't have to have much knowledge
you know things apps and other websites we're trying to do this entrepreneurial
spirit so there's a company called Big Cartel which is just an online shopping cart
and you could just build your website around that and it was super easy to This is
off the ground. So we started a big cartel site and put our designs up.
And everything was really pre -order. So we would take orders over two weeks and
then have a screen printing party. And it was in my friend's basement. He had a
house at the time. So I would go over every two weeks, buy our supplies,
and have a screen printing party, and print everyone's shirts, and then ship them
out the next day. And so as our tagline is spreading Cleveland pride one teacher at
a time We were literally doing that in 2008. Wow. And then did at that point,
you know And you're having these screen printing parties and in your friend's
basement, you know did you have a vision for What it looks a little bit more like
today with the whole retail presence across, you know, a whole geography of Cleveland
and greater Cleveland or how How are you thinking about it at that point? At that
time, I was just having fun, and I was having fun making something cool that people
wanted. I wasn't really thinking about the future or anything. I still wanted to
pursue a graphic design career and become an art director, a creative director, and
things like that. Yeah, it didn't come until much later that You know,
actually, it was only a year and a half later when we opened our first store And
then just just so we could get out of the basement and my friend's office actually
So in that journey at what point because you mentioned it was just you know a year
year and change later At what point do you think like alright? Maybe maybe we take
this a little bit more seriously than just the fun that that we're having here I
mean, well, so we did the first year in 2008, we did like a couple of festivals.
We did a holiday, I guess it was a festival, a holiday bazaar. So like the
Cleveland Bazaar, which still exists, I think they still have events at Market Square
outside of Ohio City and then a holiday market. So we did their holiday market that
year and we printed about 300 shirts and sold probably almost two thirds of that
the first day. We kind of knew that we were on to something. And I say we, I was
my friend who was in the basement, help me out, so we were at the basement, help
me out. So we knew we were on to something, but I still wanted it to just be a
fun hobby and we weren't making money, we were paying ourselves. We were just,
everything that we made went back into the business to make more cool t -shirts that
to make basically I just wanted to make something cool and so, you know the next
following year we actually opened up a Like a cart or a kiosk cart at South Park
Mall and actually had nine employees during the holidays And that's where it kind of
got a little more serious. I guess I wasn't we weren't really involved on the day
today We just had like a point in there that was that used to work in retail and
she managed everything for us so and we were just like managing the stocking and
getting the inventory in there but that kind of took off and we did some more
summer festivals during the summertime and we were at the Waterloo Arts Festival and
we saw you know vacant storefront across from our tent and we were like oh we just
asked kind of like the neighborhood like What's the lease on that? What's the rent
look like there? And to our surprise, it was really cheap. And so currently we're
storing all of our stuff at my friend's office. And, you know, he, his boss kind
of wanted everything out of there as quickly as possible. So we had an employee and
we had now in place to store all of our online stuff. And also then at the same
time, have a storefront. That storefront was called Native Cleveland. So we kind of
invented a boutique or just like a little, you know, local shop to house,
uh, CLE clothing, but also people we met along the way at all these markets and
festivals. So we invited, so we kind of wanted to hide our brand to make it more
real, I guess, or whatever. And what's the right word, you know,
more relevant, I guess, instead of just opening up a Cleveland clothing store and
then also be able to support other local entrepreneurs just like ourselves to have
in that store. And then maybe just a year later after that, the developers of East
4th Street had been walking down, looking at Waterloo and they found our shop and
they contacted us to come up with a concept for East 4th Street. And that's kind
of how the story starts and it gets more serious. Yeah, that's an incredible
journey. So it's really all, it's all just, it feels like the way you're just kind
of a natural progression of the business over time and just people kept kind of
tuning in to what you guys were putting out and kind of organically grew with the
brand. Yeah, we weren't, my intention My intention was not to force anything because
you never know what can happen if you wouldn't want to invest too much into it,
and all of a sudden we're into deep and it doesn't work.
So it just happened naturally and we didn't force it and it just kind of was all
good and I don't want to say lucky, but lucky. Yeah. Well,
I think in a lot of ways, and we can talk a little bit about this, but it was
kind of filling this void that you mentioned of Cleveland pride. Right? Because you
mentioned, perhaps there was some stuff already available, maybe on the other side of
the spectrum, but there's this idea of really defending Cleveland and having pride in
the city. And I think your brand really celebrates that. But yeah, I'd love to just
get your perspective on, you know, Cleveland's own self -perception and the brand and
just kind of the energy that you were bringing to the city.
Yeah. I mean, Cleveland is a very, very proud town and we like to show that pride.
We defend Cleveland as much as we can. We being but the butt of the joke and but
we also have a great sense of humor and we can make fun of ourselves and that we
kind of took all of that and put it inside of our brand. So we do have designs
that, you know, crack a joke or kind of have a campy humor, you know,
our Burning River Surf Club or Dead Man's Curves, things like that. And we use that
and, you know, it's, you know, it's turned out really well. And people identify with
it, and it creates conversation. It's just been a cool journey so far.
Yeah, because you guys really do now have this strong presence downtown, and it's
just kind of part of the, I feel like, the scaffolding of Eastforth and of downtown
Cleveland. Yeah, we kind of pride ourselves as the unofficial gift shop, but we are
the gift shop.
Especially being next to the visitor center. So we get locals and tourists alike.
And you know, my wife, who also works for the company, was working at the downtown
store one summer and she's like, I think I heard five different languages today. So
that was a pretty cool thing to see people visiting from all over the world coming
to Cleveland. Yeah, no, that's incredible. So What is the, from your perspective as
a designer, what is the whole approach to the actual design process?
What does that look like? I mean, when we started out, it was just looking at the
history and trends. Cleveland is a big sports town,
so we can't deny that we do sports shirts, and that's been a big driver to our
brand, but we like to look at Cleveland as a whole and it's gritty,
it's rock and roll, it's a whole bunch of things from the orchestra that are
museums to the restaurants, et cetera. And we look at all of that and we pride
ourselves as a brand that we're
or chairs we can sell, we can do designs for anything and they're gonna be welcomed
and well -liked. - Have you, I'm just curious, have you like experimented with certain
items, clothing, apparel, otherwise that haven't worked out?
(laughs)
- Yes, but I'm trying to remember like, I try to push those out of in mind, so
it's really tough to do it. - Right, I would imagine you would. - Why is this not
selling?
Yeah, it's not coming to me right now. I'm sure I could figure something out, but
a lot of stuff does work, but sometimes it just doesn't. Getting too,
yeah, like getting too vague. You can't just put Cleveland on anything. - That right,
that's not sufficient. It's necessary. - I mean, we like to be creative and add like
a little, you know, how they put Easter eggs in movies and things like that. Like
if it's, we like to put different things within our designs. Um, and if it becomes
too plain, then it's just too plain and it doesn't work. And Cleveland definitely
notices that like our first vacation in Cleveland shirt, which was during during,
like probably about the end of the last recession where people were doing
staycations. So we came up with a vacation in Cleveland design and you know there
was a little, it was a Edgewater Beach scene, there was a little rat kind of
inserted there somewhere and instead of a sea ball we used a buzzard. But it was
basically a vintage beach trip that you would find you know at Myrtle Beach or
anyone in Florida in a gift shop. But there are like little kind of changes in
there that we added just to have that campy humor. (laughing) - Maybe catch us up
to the present. So if we've got in as far as the development of the East Forth
location, what does the company look like now and how are you thinking about
expansion, the different opportunities? - Well, yeah, we opened up the East Forth
store in And that was the time where everyone on the media and everyone was saying,
"Oh, downtown is going to die because LeBron is left." And everyone on East Boy
Street took that personally,
and we decided to thrive instead of die. So I think that's when the Renaissance
really took hold of downtown and we decided that we're going to be cool and we're
gonna be set a place to come hang out and come to visit. So, you know, our store
kind of grew and took off. And what we saw, we actually saw dip in our online
sales when we opened our downtown store. And we saw people who lived in the
Chicago, New York or expats all over the country or the world were coming, waiting
to not order their shirts, but to come home when they visit to buy their shirts.
So we actually saw an increase of in -store sales, which was very awesome and
heartwarming to see and from there, you know, our staff grew We got offers to open
new stores again never seeking out anything Which has been kind of key for us We've
always been invited or asked like hey, how would you like to open a store here? So
we open a store in the university circle and And we had a, we always call it
summer in the suburbs where we had a cart at Crocker Park, which turned into a
miniature shop, which we still have today. And then we've moved on to open stores
and shaker heights at Van Aken district. And we've actually gone to Akron and Summit
Mall. So at the height of our business, pre COVID, we had almost
and, you know, good standing. Now we're about 25 to 30. More,
you know, the pandemic kind of made us rethink our business and we kind of have
drawn back on how we operate just to be more leaner and meaner. But, you know,
we're looking to grow again internally as we come out of this. Yeah, yeah. What
would have been some of the kind of lessons learned lessons learned and how you're
perhaps thinking about what the future looks like. Right now,
there's a lot going on.
A lot has changed over the past two and a half years, so costs of supply cost and
all of that and supply issues that have caused some issues here and there. But
overall, we're in good position to, we're just focused on being efficient in our
business, you know, learning. I went to art school, so I didn't go to business
school. So we're learning a lot how to run the business more efficiently and not
just be, Hey, let's put out a cool t -shirt,
it's become more than that. And, you know, having, you know, getting married,
having two kids during this whole business has put a different perspective on things.
So it's more than cool t -shirts. It's you know about creating good livelihoods, not
only for myself, my wife, and my family, but to the greater Cleveland clothing
family that we have. So we have two employees that just celebrated 10 years with
us. They started as store associates. And now they've been working in the home
office for the past five years as our human versus and purchasing director. So
that's a huge milestone that I never saw that I'd be at.
So when you look back at 2008, I'm like, I'm the boss and it's a weird position
sometimes. - That's incredible. How is the, I guess the entrepreneurial journey for
yourself, you know, having your background in something,
in something pretty unrelated perhaps to the space that you're in as an operator,
as a leader of the organization, as building the company. Right. I mean,
to start out, it was, frankly, pretty easy.
We were something cool and new, and a lot of things just took off for us.
So that was the easy part. I think 2020 was the challenge and the years after that
have become the challenge where I've had to grow as a business owner and a person
and as a leader to navigate those waters to make sure that we're all gonna be okay
or we are all okay and we get through and survive which we did,
and we're very proud that we came out in a very, very good, fortunate position.
Yeah. No, I'm as excited.
I had just picked up a shirt with my buddy before we went to,
you know, a Guardians game, and it's just nice to have.
A few other things I just want to kind of ask about and get your perspective on,
it's kind of more meta as topics, but you mentioned kind of just the mentality of
Cleveland, even specifically Sforth, this fear of LeBron leaving,
how are we going to make it, and just kind of doubling down on the whole Cleveland
pride kind of message. What if you observed change or or not changed but just what
have your observations been of like that self -perception Over the the last decade or
so I mean, it's just like the downtown landscape just changing like just the
construction of Apartments and buildings and all of that like it presents a like a
source of pride like we're we're in a resurgence and Cleveland is always been cool
but it couldn't be cooler. It's a very, very proud town. The people are what makes
it the best. I always remember the newspaper headline after the RNC in 2016 when
the line was like, "We expected a riot and got a neighborhood party" or something
like that. I'm paraphrasing, I totally what that said. A block party. We were
expected a riot and got a block party. And that was just the downtown, you know,
residents and the people of Cleveland showing up. And this is our town.
And like any event that comes to town, everyone is expecting like, not expecting to,
you know, receive what they, you know, what they get. And they're expecting, you
know, dark and dreary, Rusty town and they get something totally different. Um,
I think one of the things out of the NFL draft is like Hey, they have a beach
So that that went into one of our summer and our big that year's vacation in
Cleveland design Which was more of like a hotel ask design Like a neon like
blinking sign and I said, you know, you know, TV available or cable TV and we have
a beach.
So I think it's those kind of things where like when people outsiders say and we
can actually like take it and with a grain of salt and have some fun with it.
Yeah, so I think, you know, just the people is what makes the city the best. And
that's what we love about it. What would have been some of your your favorite
designs over Over the years just coming up with just I'm you know,
I'm a humor T kind of guy So just coming up with like funny things Whether you
know, you know, it's the Bernie Rivers serve club inventing a surfing club that then
a year later finding out There's actual surfers on Lake Erie
Bring the big cake and Cleveland shirts the shirt that blew up the most was you
know well, as far as social media, you know, growing up with social media with this
brand has been really fun. And, you know, going on Instagram and having our first
thing that ever had 1000 likes was that I liked Cleveland before it was cool t
-shirt. And I designed it and we didn't know how it was going to be responded to
and it got 1000 likes in an hour. We were like, holy crap.
We better print more of these. So, you know, those things are, you know, just
coming up with just funny and fun and interesting things to do, like that people
can get a kick out of, but also, you know, doing things, you know, doing some
philanthropy as well, like working with the food bank during the pandemic, you know,
those things also, and, you know, the other things that we do that really impact
the community, you know, it's kind of a, we have both things that what we try to
do and have fun and do good. Yeah, having fun and doing good.
That's can't ask for much more in the process. Well, so I think we've covered a
lot of different topics here. I'd love to, as you reflect on the journey and
process of building Cleveland Company over the last few years, are there are there
parts that we haven't really touched on yet that you think are important as part of
the journey or just anything you would wanna kind of share? - I mean,
I think in our community engagement and like community give back that we started,
we've always tried to engage the community as much as possible. And then once we
got in the position of being like, hey, we should really do something to impact our
local local communities, like 2017 maybe we started,
it's you buy, you buy, we give, and we started for each hoodie, knit hat,
and pair of socks we sold that Christmas season, we would donate a pair. And the
donations went to local organizations that work with the unsheltered and have programs
whether they clothe them or give them shelter and food and stuff. So that was
something very important to us and we've tried to continue that each year since. And
so we hope to do that again this year as well as work with other organizations
such as the Food Bank. And then beyond that working with landmark organizations like
the Cleveland Public Library, the even orchestra, the National Park. We even worked
with the Metro Parks a few years back, you know, just, and each, you know, when we
partner with them, there's, we either choose, you know, one of their, what's the
best words? - Yeah, one of their initiatives. - A program within the organization, and
we try to benefit. So, we've been growing that over, you know, this year that we've
been working with a few organizations that we haven't finished the designs yet, but
they'll be coming out soon throughout the fall and winter and we can't wait to
launch those. We'd just like to give back and help out the community. I mean, I
imagine there's kind of like an endless opportunity for you to do these kind of
collabs with other local organizations to create just kind of like really cool
designs around, you know, what they're doing and just kind of collaborate on that
stuff. Yeah, it's like some of them are are just like they're unexpected sometimes
and like it's very cool to see the response from the community you know I went in
we went into like the Cleveland Public Library the hundred they did they did their
150th design anniversary design and I wasn't sure how it would be received and you
know when we launched it like sold out and like less than a day. I was like, all
right, this, this public library. Yeah, we gotta turn that back on.
We're gonna figure this out. But yeah, like how the community comes out and sports
different things, different, you know, landmark organizations in the community, it's
awesome. And that's, you know, again, getting back to the people of Cleveland, that's
who we are. And that's what we're all about. Yeah. Well, we'll keep in the topic
here on Cleveland. I'll ask you a question that we ask everyone on the show, which
is not necessarily for your favorite thing in Cleveland, but for,
you know, hidden gems, something that other folks may not know about. And I feel
like it's pretty in line with kind of how you think about Cleveland anyway, just
kind of championing the things that, you know, are awesome about Cleveland,
but I'll ask you this one. - As far as hidden gems, are you looking for like
restaurants or just any like little hidden pocket than secret? - Yeah, yeah, it could
be anything, you know? - It could be anything. - Historically, you know, people have
mentioned, you know, particular parts of the Metro Park, given restaurant, the
Cleveland Public Library is a hidden gem in and of itself. - Yes, and that's where
I was like thinking. So like the third floor of the Cleveland Public Library, where
the art, the art books are is a place where I used to go work. Oh,
yeah. Free Wi -Fi. And, you know, I feel, yeah, when I work downtown,
like I needed an office and that's where I would go. And I'd be amongst the art
books and felt like I was in college again. And just, you know, working on designs
up there was pretty fun. Other than that, I think the hidden, one of the hidden
gems is that we have a beach. And not only that, but people, people are surfing on
it. And people can surf. And yeah, it is a hidden gem. And the transformation that
it's had over the past, I don't know how many years has been awesome. And, you
know, it's crowded. And it's a good thing. They'd know it absolutely is a good
thing. Well, I just want to thank you so much for your time and for sharing the
story of Cleveland clothing company. I think, again, it's just a staple and it's fun
to learn how it came to be. Yeah, thanks. Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure
being on here. Awesome. If folks had anything they wanted to follow up with you
about what would be the the best way for them to to connect Cleveland clothing or
otherwise. You can go to coeclothingco .com,
you can contact us there or on our social medias at coeclothingco.
Don't forget the CO at the end. Awesome. Well, thank you again so much.
This was awesome. Awesome.