#97: Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International)

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Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:00:00]:
Transparency being such a big, piece of it so that people could relate to the authenticity of the food. And we knew we wanted to stand at the intersection of authentic and accessible. That was something that we created from the beginning. So when you have that kind of a centering, every decision then becomes easy.

Jeffrey Stern [00:00:20]:
Let's discover the Cleveland entrepreneurial ecosystem. We are telling the stories of its entrepreneurs and those supporting them. Welcome to the Lay of the Land podcast, where we are exploring what people are building in Cleveland. I am your host, Jeffrey Stern. And today, I had the pleasure of speaking with Raji Sankar. Raji is the cofounder of Wholesome International, a multi concept restaurant development company, and she also is the co chief executive officer of Chula, a fast casual Indian restaurant owned and operated by Wholesome International with a modern commitment to good health featuring traditional Indian recipes, spices, and tindoor cooking. Chula has become a beloved gem in and of itself here in Cleveland with growing presence in other cities like Pittsburgh. Raji has a refreshing perspective on leadership and company building as a student of companies before her own and mastering the best of what they have already figured out.

Jeffrey Stern [00:01:22]:
Raji operates with a level of intentionality paid to company culture and commitment to the customer experience that feels representative of the best of what the restaurant industry has to offer. In addition, Raji is just an incredible storyteller and very fun to talk with. So please enjoy my conversation with Raji Sankar. So I was thinking about, you know, where to start the conversation, and I I remembered, you know, one of my closest friends brought me to Chula for the first time a few years ago. And I remember being struck really by the whole intentionality of the design, the the transparency of the kitchen, the prominence of the Tandoori ovens, the the kind of fun hand washing machines that are amazing. And then later, of course, you know, the actual food and and the flavors, and then thinking about how it doesn't really feel like a standard fast casual experience. And that, you know, whole experience planted the seed of of my, anticipation as I eagerly awaited the opening of your newest location in Ohio City, which I am very happy is now open and here. All that is to say, very excited to have you on today and to explore your story and and the the story of Chula.

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:02:40]:
Thank you so much for having me today.

Jeffrey Stern [00:02:43]:
So maybe it's helpful to start with just, you know, where your passion for food came from, where your interest in entrepreneurship comes from, and and where those two begin to to intersect.

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:02:55]:
Great question. First of all, food has been a huge part of growing up in an Indian family. Much like Italians, Indians, we love food. Right? Any occasion to celebrate food, we created festivals, I'm sure, just to celebrate food. Any festival in India, food is a very big centerpiece of it. Aunts and uncles and grandmothers and, you know, moms coming together and cooking up this huge meal much like Thanksgiving, I'm sure, in the United States, right, or Christmas dinners. And so that has always been a huge part of my life, watching my grandmom cook. And I would be amazed by how they could do this all day long.

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:03:40]:
There would be breakfast followed by lunch, then a snack, event, and then followed by dinner. And this, would go on and on, and it was a joy for them. It was not a chore, never a chore. So that's been a huge impact for me personally. And being an entrepreneur, I did not know that that was my passion for a very long time. I was what you could call a permanent student. So I pursued a degree in metallurgical engineering and then a master's in mechanical engineering, went to school for, artificial intelligence, and then ended up getting an MBA. And that's where, the very first, year.

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:04:24]:
I remember the 1st semester, entrepreneurship 101, and just absolutely changed my mind about what is it that I was looking for. And it's so fun to create. Right? Create something from nothing. Literally, that's what entrepreneurship is about. And sometimes you don't even know what you're seeking until you go through that process. And sometimes it can be very frustrating, And you think you're creating a and you end up with something completely different. And that's all the joy of entrepreneurship. And it doesn't matter if you're, you know, some doing something in health care like you described or food or textiles or anything else.

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:05:07]:
Is just remarkable. It's something out of nothing.

Jeffrey Stern [00:05:10]:
So how did you know this was what you were looking for and and, you know, what what kinda came out of that in the immediate aftermath?

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:05:18]:
So I took this class and we got to have a competition as part of the class. Right? So we were divided up into groups, and we created different businesses, fake businesses, mock businesses, and then we would have a competition at the end of the class. I was just blown away by the creativity of not only my group, but everyone around. And they say, you'll know when you see it. And this was one of those moments being in the class, and I still remember the final competition. The professor handed out single dollar bills to each one of us, and we had to vote for the best plan that we had heard. And, our team placed second. Do you know the first team was a food company? It was a restaurant company, and I remember, being I actually voted for that group even though I had I couldn't, you know, just given it to ourselves.

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:06:13]:
It was that great, and, I think that might have been the beginning of a seed inside of me saying how exciting, that you get your scorecard the same day when you're in food. You know you did a great job or you didn't. You get to be with people. We are social beings and, having that ability, to connect through food is something really special.

Jeffrey Stern [00:06:37]:
Yeah. No. It it it definitely is. And so at what point do you come to, you know, this is the path that I would like to pursue going

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:06:47]:
forward? So we're talking about the restaurant world. Right? Yeah. My business partner, Randir, and I, we had looked at multiple industries, once we decided we were gonna partner together, and I'm very blessed. We've been partners for 21 years now. It's not very often that, you get to have a journey, with like minded, people, same, philosophy, something larger than yourself being your focus. Right? So I've been very lucky that way. So when we were looking at multiple industries, food was something that constantly kept coming up. Not only because we loved in exploring, food, we are active in our own, food, you know, world in terms of foodies, love different kinds of foods, but also the ability to bring something that is clean and wholesome, something that we grew up on, right, in our childhoods, bringing that, to the world.

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:07:45]:
And, we were actually on a search for something that might already exist, and we really didn't find anything. And that's where we ended up creating Tula.

Jeffrey Stern [00:07:55]:
You know, at that point, what what questions were you asking? Like, was there a vision or, you know, was it just through the exploration of looking for something that maybe already existed and and not finding it that you're like, alright. There's a void that we need to to try and fill here.

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:08:12]:
So, actually, we wrote our first business plan in 2003. We didn't call it Chula back then, but we knew we wanted the fast casual space. As we were looking at, the world, the Paneras and the Chipotles were just emerging. I would imagine they were probably just a 100 stores or so. And, it was, remarkable to see how people are gravitating towards a meal that was quick, but at the same time, it was full of integrity in terms of the quality of the meal, the ingredients. It wasn't necessarily fast food, but still a family of 4 could enjoy a meal out and, do that quickly because double income families, people working, kids in different kinds of events. We started to see that shift in the United States and specifically the places that we were living in. And, we felt fast casual was the right place.

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:09:10]:
At that time, fast casual wasn't the common theme that you hear today. It was just, you know, starting, emerging, and we knew we wanted to create an Indian fast casual. And we wrote a business plan, and it's amazing that we pulled back pull out the business plan once in a while, and it's exactly what Chula is today. It's shocking even the menu items that we had created. But the idea behind it was fresh, premium ingredients, bold flavors, and it's about flavors, not fire necessarily burning your tongue, but about being able to enjoy the complexities of it and, being able to bring something to our markets. You know, Indian food is very popular in the UK and South Africa and many other parts in the US. Mexican has been very successful. Mediterranean was just emerging, on a trend, and Chinese has been around for a very, very long time.

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:10:09]:
We felt that the palates were starting to emerge. We would go to, Whole Foods and look at their shelves, and we would see, how much space was allocated to ethnic foods and Indian foods. And you look at it back then versus now, it's extraordinary. What a remarkable change. Even Target has shelves devoted to Indian food.

Jeffrey Stern [00:10:33]:
Can you can you share a little bit about the community ovens concept and how that that ties into it?

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:10:40]:
So chula means oven, and, it's a take on community oven. In, the very old days, there used to be holes in the ground and they would put charcoal in the ground and they would have skewered meats, cheeses, and their bread would be slapped to the side of this pit, fire pit, if you will. And then that's how food was shared. And it's such a great economic engine when you think about it, being able to share the fuel, have a common oven for the entire community, and a great gathering place where at the end of the day, sharing the good, the bad, the ugly, commiserating with each other, celebrating with each other. So that really was the gist of what we wanted to bring to the modern times. Except now you're sitting at a community table and watching the tandoor ovens right in front of you while you watch the bread being made and pulled out, while you watch the skewered proteins, being pulled out. So that's really, how, Chula came to be. And you'll see in each one of our restaurants, we have community tables.

Jeffrey Stern [00:11:46]:
And so with this, you know, vision, you know, the the actual plan, how how do you go about making that a reality? Well, you know, what are the steps that you take? How does how does the first store, you know, come come to exist?

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:12:00]:
So, actually, when we first started, we wrote the business plan. We shelved it, for a while because we had no clue how to run restaurants. Right? So we ended up, going the franchising route, and we had, experiences of both good and bad. We have, been very blessed to be a part of a wonderful franchise. We also learned and took our lumps from another franchise that you won't hear much of today because that didn't make it. So it was a very powerful training ground for us. We learned, what to best, do, and we also learned what not to do. So there is a lot of lessons from both.

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:12:39]:
And often you think, oh, failure is a bad thing, but failure is a great teacher. And, we were able to figure out things that we would have never known that these are important. Right? Supply chain has to be so, so strong. In a restaurant world, if you don't have the ingredients, if you don't have the food, what are you gonna serve? You have no product. So we learned a lot along those lines. How do you keep that robust? And then also it's a people business. Whatever anyone else says, it's hospitality, at its core. And, so if you don't have the heart and soul inside the restaurant, that under our belt, we decided to go back to the drawing board, and, we had a great team in place.

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:13:31]:
And Randhir actually moved to India for 2 years with his family, and, we had test kitchens in India and in Lakewood, actually, in Cleveland. And we didn't, make it public. It was quiet. For 2 years, we worked on the concept, the recipes. We didn't know much. It was actually great. Being ignorant sometimes can be bliss. And this was one of those things where, you know, we were just so bold and took chances on things we would probably not know if we were that knowledgeable.

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:14:03]:
It was super, fun to see, how that came together. We've been very blessed with amazing people who came into our lives, incredible leaders, you know, whether it is the production of the food or whether it is creation of the design or whether it is the architecting of the recipes, incredible, incredible leaders, whose shoulders we stand on today. That is how it came together. Everybody creating something magical. We had created our mission, vision, and values in 2011 that we had crystallized. We always used to have a version of it every year that we were in business. But in 2011, we crystallized, hey. We wanna create something that will transform the lives of everyone we touch.

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:14:44]:
We actually post that in our, locations. And how do you transform? Oh, let's just create something huge, something that we hadn't thought of. And, that's how it, started, and then we opened, on Black Friday in Cleveland in 2014. It turns 8 years old this year. We had no idea what people would say or not say about the food, and we were just shocked, to see the reception. There were people who had actually never had Indian food, to people who had pre preconceived notions, saying it's gonna be a certain way, and then there were people who have absolutely loved the cuisine. So, we found audience for all of them, and they adopted us. They actually made it, happen for us.

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:15:33]:
So I'm very grateful we started in Cleveland.

Jeffrey Stern [00:15:36]:
Oh, so that's amazing. A lot of different threads that I I would like to to pull on there. You know, before we get to the evolution of it, I think there are a lot of elements that that you just mentioned that went into, you know, at the onset, your vision for what this would look like. And that that is everything from the aesthetic and whole, you know, feel of what the restaurant looks like to the food itself, but I really feel there is a very strong brand with with Chula. And I I'd love to, you know, just get your perspective and and help us unpack how and why you you thought about those kinds of decisions that you made that that has led it to to feel this way, that it feels as a restaurant.

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:16:17]:
So, you know, we, have been students of, Malcolm Baldridge. I don't know if you're familiar with that.

Jeffrey Stern [00:16:24]:
I am not.

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:16:25]:
It's about a, framework for excellence. Right? And the private sector actually, helped create this even though it's something instituted by the government every year. It's given out by the government, but, it's an incredible framework for excellence. So before we even opened the restaurant, before we did anything, we actually wrote an organizational profile, which is basically a vision for what you would like, to see happen. And, we had a wonderful coach who helped us think through that process in terms of what should be in it. And, so we got a wonderful outline of what should be in it, and we wrote down the organizational profile. It had to satisfy our mission, vision, and values, and the mission was to delight every guest every time creating raving fans. So how do you do that? And that has to start from the moment you walk in, to the restaurant.

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:17:18]:
Right? Indian restaurants, just if you're not familiar with the cuisine, could have been intimidating. Strange, experience. If we had gone a completely different route, that might have been not as easy to connect to, or it may not have been as relatable. So we knew when you walked in, you have, this beautiful museum of contemporary art experience, and, that was the vision for, head of creative. And the kitchen, we knew we wanted transparency. That was fundamental, to what we wanted to do. And we wanted to demystify that this is something, mysterious, something that I cannot relate to. So how do we put the kitchen right in front? Right? We reversed how typically things might be.

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:18:06]:
The ovens are now the center. So you can actually see everything being cooked, and you're not intimidated by that. And you can say, hey. And we also chose that we're gonna be very true and pure to, integrity of who we wanted to serve. So no artificial colors, no preservatives. We don't have pink and orange chicken. It has to be how chicken looks. Right? The only color comes from things like turmeric.

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:18:32]:
So that's how, it was going to be, very natural. So transparency being such a big, piece of it so that people could relate to the authenticity of the food, and we knew we wanted to stand at the intersection of authentic and accessible. That was something that we created from the beginning. So when you have that kind of a centering, every decision then becomes easy. That meant we are going to have open kitchens. That meant we're gonna have a place where you can gather and you wanna linger. Right? Not just take your food and go home. And it's something that you're not afraid to try new things.

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:19:11]:
You might feel more adventurous because of what you have. It's all the 5 senses play into this. It's the smells that you experience when you walk into this store. It's the, vision of all the things around you, whether it's artwork or whether it's somebody, you know, cooking chicken in the tenders, and your senses are mesmerized, your eyes are mesmerized. And then how does it feel in terms of our handwashing is a tactile, tactical, piece for tactile, sense. Right? You put your hands in. It's like a jacuzzi for your hands. And how cool that you get to wash your hands without going to the restroom where you feel like you should wash again, right, when you come out.

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:19:51]:
And so those were all pieces of it. So the, senses of, and then the taste. When you put the food in your mouth, how does it look when it's presented? All of those were very big elements of, how that had to be. A lot of it just came together. It's kind of interesting. We always say, when you have something, that is, intent is pure, Universe shows up in various ways to make things happen. So a lot of gifts showed up in our world that guided us. People guided us.

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:20:22]:
People showed up and helped us, through the process in places that we had no clue what to do.

Jeffrey Stern [00:20:29]:
That's, I love that sentiment. I haven't actually heard of this, you know, framework before of the guidelines for excellence. I I'd love to just you know, what are the other components of that? How did that shape the the the path forward for you? And yeah. I'm I'm just kinda curious about that.

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:20:46]:
Awesome. So the Malcolm Baldridge framework, for excellence, it was instituted in 1986. Companies have to apply for it, and when they do, the examiners will, spend hours, 100 of hours at your company talking to guests, talking to the team members, and they basically are going to gauge you against what you say your mission, vision, and values are. And if you say, I'm going to be the best paint company, they will compare and see, is that what you or your actions reflect what you said you would? And, so they look at first, that foundation of, the vision, mission, and core values, then they look at how the guest focuses, how the team members, systems are that support that. How is the operational foundation supporting that, data and analysis, results, all of these things feature into that. And, so, basically, from soup to nuts, you are in harmony. It's amazing. Right? That's really the center of it.

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:21:51]:
Congruency in every piece of it, whether it's HR, whether it's finance, whether it is guest feedback and focus. And companies that have won it, Ritz Carlton won it twice. Only 2 restaurant companies have won it to date. It's a remarkable achievement because they have to show metrics and success year on year, and it's not for the lighthearted. So we never applied for the award. I don't think we're even fractionally ready for it yet, But, what we did did help us is the mindset and the thinking and the framework that we would apply to all pieces of our business.

Jeffrey Stern [00:22:31]:
That that's fascinating. So from there, what does Chula look like today, you know, in in the present state? And then we can unpack, you know, a few of the the learnings involved throughout that whole process.

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:22:44]:
So one of the things we have learned is you can never stand still. Right? You have to continuously innovate, and things show up for you that force you to innovate. So the pandemic forced us to accelerate our innovations that might have happened 5 years later. So whether it was the technology component, which was a huge driver, We, accelerated, our app, accelerated the quality of our app, shall we say, and the online ordering mechanism. We accelerated, our kiosks. We accelerated, a lot of guest listening systems and other team based systems. Those were things that may not have happened as quickly. We also looked at how do we make the footprint more friendly, and then how can we make, in and out very quickly.

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:23:34]:
We were able to do mobile pickup windows in one of our new stores so that we could offer that wherever possible. How do we make life easy? Right? At the end of the day, that's really what it's about is how do we make life easy, not only for the guests, but also for the team members. So how do we streamline the kitchen so it's easier for them? So we constantly work on that, and, we have had multiple iterations on those levels, and I don't think we'll ever stop. That is a never ending element.

Jeffrey Stern [00:24:06]:
Yeah. No. I I think it's it's a interesting concept thinking about the the the technology stack for a restaurant, particularly as it applies to fast casual as, you know, it seems to be a core competency that these companies, you know, now have to have under the the fast casual umbrella? And how, you know, how did you adapt to that situation? I mean, you have, but, you know, what were what were you thinking through as the the, you know, the mediums of of interacting and ordering and people, you know, consuming changed pretty rapidly.

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:24:42]:
So we knew that today's, world as and especially the pandemic taught us that. Right? We needed to meet people where they were, what they wanted. If it was curbside, it was curbside. Right? If it was, app, it was app. If it was online ordering, it was online ordering. If they wanted family meals or catering, it had to support that. If they didn't wanna talk to anyone and just go straight to the, you know, kiosk, that was another one that so the biggest lesson in all of this is just give it to the, customer the way they want it. Give them options to be able to order the way they want.

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:25:20]:
And so that was a huge driver in how we selected, and we all always look for the best technologies we could get hold of. Sometimes, the companies would not be interested in a smaller restaurant company, but we were able to persuade them over time that, hey. This is the right, thing for them to align with us, and emerging brands are a very big impact for a lot of those companies because today's emerging brand might become tomorrow's, something bigger.

Jeffrey Stern [00:25:51]:
Right. So you mentioned in your own, you know, professional journey before Chula, this this exploration of, you know, franchise model for restaurants. As you've navigated the the growth of the brand and the opening of new stores, how have you kind of done that that balance of corporate ownership versus franchise and and and just more generally, how you think about growth?

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:26:18]:
Growth is why every every business hopes for. Right? That's really also one of our values, by the way. One of our core values is personal and professional growth. So when you look at our world, currently, Chula is all homegrown, and we don't have any, franchising yet. I don't know what the future will bring. Right? One thing we have learned, especially after the pandemic, is be very open, to all possibilities because growth is really what it's about. So the future could, turn into many, many different ways, and many possibilities. So our commitment is we're gonna stay open to all things that, are right for the brand.

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:27:02]:
That's very important that we are true to the brand, right for the brand, and that is right for our team.

Jeffrey Stern [00:27:09]:
What do you learn with, you know, subsequent store openings that you don't, you know, at the onset of of starting a restaurant?

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:27:18]:
So when we started, oh, well, we went through menu iterations too. Right? We used to have a much larger menu, and then we finally focused and narrowed it down to the menu that makes sense. So I'll give you some examples. When we first started, we had this wonderful, set of, a pickle and a relish and all kinds of things that was homemade and garnishes, really, is what you could call them. And we would have our protein, and we kept getting feedback like, wow. Where is the rice? Where is the rice? And so we realized, hey, this is what people really are angling for. They don't give too much credit for our garnishes even though we thought they were very pretty and, used to take a lot of time to make them. Right? So we ended up, shifting our, focus into what the customer really, really needs and wants, and, that's how our signature bowls evolve.

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:28:13]:
So we have something called, the perfect balance, which I don't know if you've had a chance to have that. It's your vegetables and protein, your, masala, and your choice of either greens or rice. So that came from those kinds of iterations. So listening, to the customer and also knowing what your true north is, and if you can marry the 2, it's a very, very powerful thing. That's one example of what we learned. We also learned you know, we used to have varieties of different things and in, you know, in terms of, the flavors that people prefer. What would they really like? Whether it came to lemonades or whether it was our dessert. Those were pieces.

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:28:56]:
We also tested so many different varieties when we were in our test kitchen of the types of things we would serve. There were some very complicated elements. So if we can't prepare that the same way, every time, that is a disservice, and saying that our mission is, to delight every guest every time. So those were the kinds of things that we worked on, whether it was menu, whether it was technology, whether it was the footprint itself, and whether it was a design, how the kitchen evolved. We're probably on our 5th or 6th generation of our, design in every aspect, the signage, you name it, all of it, the textures, the flooring, everything went through a renaissance.

Jeffrey Stern [00:29:42]:
Where when you think about expansion and growth, do you see Chula growing into next?

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:29:51]:
So we have a wonderful dream, Chulad in every corner of the globe. I have no idea how that's gonna happen. Right? And, all we could do is just this was a, you know, dream we have, and, universe willing, we'll find, you know, opportunities and options opening

Jeffrey Stern [00:30:10]:
for that. I'm I'm grateful it's in Ohio City, my my corner of the world. But, no, I what you just said, I actually just finished reading, a book called The Alchemist. And I think the core message of it is that when you want to achieve something, the universe will conspire in helping you to achieve it. So

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:30:29]:
That's one of my favorite books. It's Paul Coelho. Right?

Jeffrey Stern [00:30:33]:
Yes. Yes.

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:30:34]:
It's one of my favorite books. Yes. I love that.

Jeffrey Stern [00:30:38]:
The plan aside, but

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:30:42]:
Yes. And that's really what we, and, you know, our focus is let's do the right things. Let's, you know, focus on making sure, and we actually also work a lot on how do we make this place a better place for our team, and that has been a big focus. The pandemic has taught us, a great lesson. Right? It's not, we want more of everything. We don't want 1 dimensional lives. We wanna be connected. We wanna see our creative potential at its peak.

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:31:15]:
We want, our, career to reflect that. We want our individual lives to reflect that. We wanna be able to travel. We wanna be able to do whatever we want in life, and that those are things that it's a dream. If we can have everyone reach their peak potential in our world, that would be so exciting, and it would be, soul filling.

Jeffrey Stern [00:31:38]:
Well, I I think that gets at where where I wanna to go next, which is, you know, in retrospect, the kind of impact that you hope to have as a business and and what what does success, you know, mean and and look like to you?

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:31:52]:
So for us, and that's where we come back to our vision of transforming the quality of lives of everyone we touch. So if it's a team member and their families, then whether they are here with us for a short period of time, it might be a student on their way to do something else eventually, completely different. Or so for them to, get amazing skills while they're with us and have a great time and look back and say this was one of the best experiences they had or one of the best first experiences they ever had. Or it could be a a career, team member with us who experiences growth. We have so many stories. We just celebrated, 15th anniversary of one of our team members, just not too long ago. He went from being a crew member to an area director. Right? And so it's so exciting to see that person grow, not only as in the steps, if you will, as career steps, but also as an individual seeing that person thrive.

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:32:48]:
And I know, when they got married, when they bought their first house, when they had their first child, those kinds of things. It's exciting to have been a part of that. It's also for our guests that they feel that if they have allergies or if they had, you know, gluten, issues or if they had, vegetarian or vegan preferences, that we are a place where, you know, it doesn't prevent them from having a great option or a great many options for themselves. And we talk about caring what we put in our bodies, and that's what our food hopefully reflects for the people who enjoy our food and, for communities for us to be able to not just job creation, but being integral part of it. We love having fundraisers in our worlds and give 30% of the, you know, fundraiser proceeds to the charities. It's a huge part of who we are. That is fundamental to our vision. So us being able to, I don't know, 100 of 1000 of lives would be awesome.

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:33:49]:
A 1000000000 lives would be even more awesome, as a legacy that we made an impact on. So I don't know what it could be, but whatever, we are, you know, given an opportunity to, that would be, so remarkable and so fulfilling.

Jeffrey Stern [00:34:06]:
Something you you mentioned earlier I wanna circle back to, which is, you know, what is the importance of of coaching in the entrepreneurial process and and how that that is actually, you know, kinda manifested for you? I find that also very interesting.

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:34:22]:
You know, coaching is so important, and I have been blessed with coaches. And I am always seeking coaches for myself, so I have a wonderful meditation coach who allows me with introspection. I have a coach who helps me think through business issues. Right? And how do you, and then on the human relations equation, you know, having, people who mentor me. So I think coaching is, something that we have seen athletes get, and so they get them to see their blind spots and help them elevate their game. So that's true for every human being, and coaches come in different ways. Parents can be coaches. Your friend can be your coach.

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:35:06]:
Right? It doesn't mean you have to necessarily have a very unique, model of coaching is just one way is someone, who is called a coach. But I found coaching, and I learned from my peers. I learned from, my business partner who's an amazing coach for me. So that is, I think coaching is essential for you to know, where you stand, somebody who's not afraid to tell you honestly, and somebody who helps you elevate your game. I learned this that accountability is constant and never ending conversation on rules of the game. So if someone is not helping you with that, it's hard to see for yourself, and I have not been involved that much that I can just see it for myself yet. So, I found that to be a very powerful, you know, accretive source for myself.

Jeffrey Stern [00:36:01]:
From the outside looking in, you know, what are some things that you wish people knew about what it is to to run, a restaurant business?

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:36:12]:
So I think, one of the things is that a lot of times you wonder the, workforce in, you know, restaurants, who actually goes to work. It's amazing. We have college graduates. We have had a doctor, who was, studying for his, credentials, from another country, and he worked with us on his way. You'll find, single moms trying to make a better life for their kids. So hospitality is a unique industry where they are they are selflessly serving others, right, while they are pursuing, whatever the necessary needs are at home. So I think just the amount of struggle that some of, the people might have. And at the same time, there might be somebody who's just using this as a stepping stone and a great place because they love serving.

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:37:07]:
It doesn't necessarily mean that this is a specific I think so. It's a huge blessing to be able to work there. You learn so many skills that, is actually, I think, underrepresented. You learn how to, impart psychologist by the time you're if you're a great cashier. Right? If you're a great guest ambassador, you really become a a great psychologist because you know how to read people, how to relate to people, and what an extraordinary skill that is in whatever you do in life, whether it is with a spouse or whether it is, with your family, whether it's with friends or peers at work, that's a skill that you'll never lose. So there's so many skills you can learn. You learn about production, management. You learn about, you know, obviously, customer service being a part of it.

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:37:57]:
You learn about financial management. So, restaurant is as if it were a full organization, and you can have many, many parts. You could literally have a full, tour of all aspects of a business.

Jeffrey Stern [00:38:12]:
It gets at one of the the other questions I I wanted to ask about, but I think you've kinda already addressed it. But at the, you know, the transferable skills that that that you acquire through, you know, restaurants as it applies to to business more generally and, and to entrepreneurship. Because I I've often found that there is this parallel between, you know, the proverbial chef and and and the founder.

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:38:36]:
You are so right. And you have supply chain. Right? You have real estate. If you really think about it, it is a little, city of its own, teeming with so many different pieces. There is utilities. You you learn about all aspects, within the restaurant business. So when there is a great, business run, this is something that, they can take into other worlds. It's not just restaurants.

Jeffrey Stern [00:39:01]:
So and forgive me for pulling you in all these had also mentioned earlier, which was about that maintenance of the integrity of of the supply chain and specifically as it relates to Tandoori food and ingredients. How that how does that actually look like in in practice, you know, the the the sourcing of of spices and and that whole production process?

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:39:28]:
So we started with the concept of you're gonna get off the shelf spice blends. Right? And then we realized very quickly that we couldn't get the level of paperwork we wanted, for, consistency and, also the source all the way source tracking. And so we actually have our own spice blends. We make our own spice blends from scratch. We, have about a dozen spice blends, and that's not an easy thing to do, but we realized that's the only way we could get to clean, trackable spice blends and also consistency. So there is no caking anti caking agent in our world, right, when we make our own spice blends. It's also the freshness of the taste profile. If you leave a space a spice blend on the shelf for 3 years, or 2 years as might be the case in some instances, when you're trying to buy off the shelf, that won't have the same taste as, when you're, looking at something that might have been ground a few days ago.

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:40:31]:
So we learned very quickly that in order to so we looked at all those places where there could be breakdowns, and we set ourselves up, so that even if it's harder and if even if you have to make your own, proprietary spice blends, it just changes, the long term equation.

Jeffrey Stern [00:40:51]:
No. It seems like this core asset ultimately as you begin to scale as a as an organization as well.

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:40:58]:
You're absolutely right.

Jeffrey Stern [00:41:01]:
So I think we've covered a lot of, you know, different topics here. I just kinda wanna, you know, open the floor up for you if there are, you know, parts of of what it is to run Chula, parts of your own journey that that we haven't, you know, touched on yet that you think are are particularly important. I'd love to to hear about that, and, then we can, you know, work towards bookending the the conversation here.

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:41:25]:
So for me, like, I think the biggest part has been, it's a journey of discovery. Right? Self discovery. How badly can I break down? How, you know, elated can one get. Right? So, and then, it's a spiritual journey. Business is a spiritual journey. Any entrepreneur will tell you it's never, like, a easy coaster, like, kind of situation. It's always a roller coaster experience, and, anticipating is not always easy. And I doubt we can anticipate everything.

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:42:02]:
Right? But being prepared is something we can definitely do every single day. And, so it has been a incredible spiritual journey in the sense of personal growth, you know, learning, having break throughs after breakdowns. Right? And breakdowns are part for, a part a part of the course, and you can't ignore that, and you can't expect that that will never happen nor challenges won't exist. But how we deal with them, sometimes not so gracefully, other times surprising ourselves. Right? So that that's been sort of, what we have seen. Every time we thought this is too hard, there has been a, you know, surprising element of something good showing up that would get us through, but we've found that psychology of the founders is what it all starts and ends with, and so we work very hard on the psychology of ourselves as much as we can. Ranvir and I focus a lot on that. And, are we at our best every time? No.

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:43:05]:
But what we try to do is try to get back to our, center as much as possible and as quickly as possible.

Jeffrey Stern [00:43:13]:
I love that. And I think, it is it is very important to take care of of yourself through the through the journey because it it is hard.

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:43:23]:
Yes. Yes. And, for us, it's about the how can our team reach their peak potential. So we're constantly we're junkies when it comes to learning about, how do we, get to be the best individually, collectively, team wise. We have made so many mistakes too along the way. Right? Those have been great teachers for us, not by choice, sometimes, without, you know, intending to, and, we learned a lot. And I think those have been and being able to accept, that you will fail. That was probably one of the toughest things to learn.

Jeffrey Stern [00:44:01]:
Right. It it it's baked right into the the whole company building process. It's part of the

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:44:07]:
journey. Yes. Yes.

Jeffrey Stern [00:44:09]:
Well, we can, close out here with my, traditional closing question, which is for not necessarily your favorite thing in Cleveland, but for something that other folks may not necessarily know about. So a hidden gem, if if you will.

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:44:26]:
So I'm gonna actually give, a shout out to a neighbor of ours in Ohio City, Mitchell's Ice Cream. I love, their place. It is so fun to watch your ice cream being made and, talk about transparency, which is close to my heart. Right? It's just awesome to see.

Jeffrey Stern [00:44:45]:
There is a shared ethos there.

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:44:47]:
Yeah. Great. Yeah. I love, going there, and I love, the, you know, experience there. That's one of my favorite places.

Jeffrey Stern [00:44:59]:
Awesome. It it is it is a special place. I just wanna thank you again so much for for coming on and and for for sharing your your story. And I, you know, personally am a big fan of Chula, like like I had mentioned. So, I was very happy to, to have you on and, had been looking forward to to this one for a while.

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:45:19]:
Thank you so much. And it's been such a privilege to be a part of your podcast, and I'm grateful of I learned a lot from you as well, and I'm, absolutely grateful for the fact that you do what you do, and you share so much through your podcast. And, and I wish you tremendous success.

Jeffrey Stern [00:45:42]:
Oh, thank you. I I appreciate that. If folks had anything that they wanted to follow-up with you about, what would be the the best way for them to do so?

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:45:51]:
So they can reach us at chula.com. They can also follow us, on our Instagram, Chula Yum, is our handle and as is our Facebook handle, Chula Yum. It's c h, 2 o's, l, 2 a's, and then h, chula and chulayum.

Jeffrey Stern [00:46:09]:
Awesome. Well, thank you again.

Raji Sankar (Choolaah // Wholesome International) [00:46:11]:
Thank you.

Jeffrey Stern [00:46:14]:
That's all for this week. Thank you for listening. We'd love to hear your thoughts on today's show, so if you have any feedback, please send over an email to jeffrey@layoftheland.f m or find us on Twitter at podlayoftheland or @sternjefe, j e f e. If you or someone you know would make a good guest for our show, please reach out as well and let us know. And if you enjoy the podcast, please subscribe and leave a review on iTunes or on your preferred podcast player. Your support goes a long way to help us spread the word and continue to bring the Cleveland founders and builders we love having on the show. We'll be back here next week at the same time to map more of the land.